The Continued Decline of Young Men Willing to Serve a Mission

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, YJacket said:

What do you think is going to happen when the LGBTQETC is held up and lauded as the paragon of virtue?

MP holds a diversity and inclusion mission-wide training about how to treat LGBTQ.

Missionary companion gets hit on by homosexual companion:

"Hey Mission President, I think my companion is hitting on me."

"No, Elder, I think you are mistaken, that didn't really happen".

Look at this thread here; look at the amount of shaming, and downright emotional abuse going on.  No, no, the OPENLY homosexual missionary who dated men prior to his mission who thinks its perfectly fine would NEVER, EVER, EVER do anything to another young man on his mission.

It's only shame, shame, shame.  You are the bad one, you are the bigoted, evil, nasty, wicked person who needs to repent if you even mention that it is a possibility that a man who openly proclaims he is sexually attracted to other men would possibly hit on another young man who he spends time with 24-7!

Are you out of your mind? Where is this happening that "LGBTQETC is held up and lauded as the paragon of virtue"? If a missionary hits on another missionary, that will get the MP's attention, whether it's a gay missionary or not. In my mission, we had a sister missionary who was caught making out with an elder. Neither was sent home, but the sister was immediately transferred to be my wife's companion. She spent every P-Day writing love letters and making care packages to send to her Josecito. How is that any more or less appropriate than similar behavior between two missionaries of the same sex? FWIW, the make-out missionaries have been married almost as long as we have. 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, YJacket said:

Really?  I don't think that will happen for a moment.  The missionary will know intrinsically that for him to speak up against those who are held up as a paragon of virtue would mean societal death for him. He would be called the same names I have been called.  Bigot, homophobe, intolerant.

And you know it too.  You'd like to believe that is what would happen, but you know it won't.

The societal pressure will not allow ANY negative reporting about LGBTQETC and missionaries have gotten the message.  They won't speak up-they know it's forbotten; b/c no one wants to actually know the truth.

This is about as unhinged a post as I have ever read in nearly 20 years on this board. You seem completely unfamiliar with the LDS church and how it works.

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, YJacket said:

So as long as the young man is smaller than the young woman it would be perfectly fine?  

Muscle strength is such that even smaller men are stronger than most women.  There is also the cultural perception of males typically being the initiators of sexual interaction with females that has played into dynamics in the past.  I don’t know how much it affects current male-female dynamics, but it was not uncommon for men to either convince themselves women were just being passive and they actually interested in pursuing a sexual relationship or they didn’t care.  Iow, saying “not interested” or saying “no” was not enough to stop aggressive behavior in enough men that women were taught or learned by sad experience to be careful in any situation with men.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Calm

[YJacket]

14 hours ago, The Nehor said:

And possibly vice-versa if the depraved homosexual reports that the virtuous heterosexual talks endlessly about the hot women on the street or his dates before his mission.

So basically the solution is to pair them up with a bisexual guy like me and I can entertain them both with threesome fantasies that affirm both sexualities.

HOORAY! I AM HELPING!

That is quite a sick response man.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, YJacket said:

That is quite a sick response man.

No, the word is "depraved." 😉

[bluebell]

26 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Maybe it's just that my experience with general authorities on my mission was being yelled at for our perceived failures. This just sounded like more of that to me. 

I didn't get the sense that any yelling or shaming was happening in that meeting.  He seemed genuinely and sincerely concerned about stopping someone from feeling pain.  He did not seem mad that anyone would be so "weak" as to leave early. 

But you are right, our personal experiences do color how we view things, for good and ill.

[YJacket]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

I don’t believe it unless missionaries are “sanctioned” to talk about all the women openly male heterosexual missionaries are attracted and last I heard this was highly discouraged.

Sanctioned or not; put 2 single young men or 2 single young women together and inevitably this is going to come up.  To expect a single 18 year old to never talk about the cute girls he sees on the street with his companion is totally unreasonable.  Should it happen, no, is it going to happen, yes. 

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, YJacket said:

It's not?
https://www.facebook.com/liftandloveorg/posts/pfbid0DfwrfexAB1YwCmZHsiTdgKkLxyY7PqrGfNjfHYcT7N7SZb5bhNekU4ik7Xh2yWYrl

He was open with his stake president about the fact that he had dated men before his mission, and his family (and stake president) believe that the law of chastity is and should be the same for everyone. “It’s not the law of ‘you can’t hold hands, date, or kiss someone’,”

The president committed not to let that experience repeat and has thus made it a priority to make his mission a zone of safety and love for all. He even did a mission wide training with Elder Carpenter’s help on how to best minister to our LGBTQ+ community.

That quote does not support the allegations that you've made.

So yes, it's not.

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, YJacket said:

What do you think is going to happen when the LGBTQETC is held up and lauded as the paragon of virtue?

MP holds a diversity and inclusion mission-wide training about how to treat LGBTQ.

Missionary companion gets hit on by homosexual companion:

"Hey Mission President, I think my companion is hitting on me."

"No, Elder, I think you are mistaken, that didn't really happen".

Look at this thread here; look at the amount of shaming, and downright emotional abuse going on.  No, no, the OPENLY homosexual missionary who dated men prior to his mission who thinks its perfectly fine would NEVER, EVER, EVER do anything to another young man on his mission.

It's only shame, shame, shame.  You are the bad one, you are the bigoted, evil, nasty, wicked person who needs to repent if you even mention that it is a possibility that a man who openly proclaims he is sexually attracted to other men would possibly hit on another young man who he spends time with 24-7!

You're making stuff up and wanting us to act as though it's real when it only exists in your head.

[YJacket]

9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Are you out of your mind? Where is this happening that "LGBTQETC is held up and lauded as the paragon of virtue"? 

Read the thread dude.  I bring this up as a concern and I'm immediately attacked as bigoted and homophobic.  By definition that means even the possibility that LGBTQETC could even what I have brought up as a concern is said to be of no concern.

If a person even slightly mentions that LGBTQETC have need to repent of ungodly desires, that person is called a bigot or a homophobe.  It's pretty obvious that they are a better class of people according to those who hold this ideology.

[YJacket]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

You're making stuff up and wanting us to act as though it's real when it only exists in your head.

It's called playing out a scenario. I never said it was "real", it's a scenario.

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, YJacket said:

Really?  I don't think that will happen for a moment.  The missionary will know intrinsically that for him to speak up against those who are held up as a paragon of virtue would mean societal death for him. He would be called the same names I have been called.  Bigot, homophobe, intolerant.

And you know it too.  You'd like to believe that is what would happen, but you know it won't.

The societal pressure will not allow ANY negative reporting about LGBTQETC and missionaries have gotten the message.  They won't speak up-they know it's forbotten; b/c no one wants to actually know the truth.

Do you have actual examples of this or is it just your prediction of what might happen?  If it is just a prediction, you can’t expect anyone to take it seriously if it is counter to their own experiences in their missions and wards.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Calm

[bluebell]

Just now, YJacket said:

It's called playing out a scenario. I never said it was "real", it's a scenario.

It's make believe.  

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, YJacket said:

Read the thread dude.  I bring this up as a concern and I'm immediately attacked as bigoted and homophobic.  By definition that means even the possibility that LGBTQETC could even what I have brought up as a concern is said to be of no concern.

If a person even slightly mentions that LGBTQETC have need to repent of ungodly desires, that person is called a bigot or a homophobe.  It's pretty obvious that they are a better class of people according to those who hold this ideology.

Again, you either aren't really a member of the church or have a really strange view of its teachings and practices. 

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, YJacket said:

Sanctioned or not; put 2 single young men or 2 single young women together and inevitably this is going to come up.  To expect a single 18 year old to never talk about the cute girls he sees on the street with his companion is totally unreasonable.  Should it happen, no, is it going to happen, yes. 

You were claiming it is sanctioned.  You were also claiming not just coming up, but a constant stream of it.

Are you changing the scenario now?

Edited August 15, 2022 by Calm

[YJacket]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That quote does not support the allegations that you've made.

So yes, it's not.

Absolutely it does.

What message does it send to the companion and other missionaries when a special conference is called and a special training session is made about properly loving and treating with respect LGBTQ?

Do you really believe in this special training session, the MP put a caveat into the session and stated to all the missionaries: "If your companion starts hitting on you, I need you to tell me immediately".

The message is plainly obvious when a special training session is made specifically for the treatment of one particular class of people; it is this particular class of people are very, very special-you need to treat them very specially, they are more special than anyone else.  They are the "teacher's pet", so don't you dare do anything to treat (or say anything bad) about the "teacher's pet".

This is basic human societal functionality here. 

[Calm]

1 minute ago, YJacket said:

What message does it send to the companion and other missionaries when a special conference is called and a special training session is made about properly loving and treating with respect LGBTQ?

 

Apply the same rules for homosexual as heterosexual.  Be respectful, but no romance/sexual relationship on a mission is allowed.

[jkwilliams]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's make believe.  

Imagine living your life in fear of fantasy scenarios you make up in your own head. I have enough trouble dealing with life as it comes.

[YJacket]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you have actual examples of this or is it just your prediction of what might happen?  If it is just a prediction, you can’t expect anyone to take it seriously if it is counter to their own experiences in their missions and wards.

It's like I said at the beginning, the LGBTETC crowd opened up a can of worms and they don't want to deal with the can of worms they have opened; so in order to not deal with the can of worms they do what you have done. Which is deny basic human societal structures. 

It's obvious that it is occurring right now, we just haven't heard about it yet.

Again, I've been called homophobic and bigoted for even bringing this subject up; and I don't give a rip what you people think of me and I'm much older where these things don't phase me one bit.

Now, a young man who's 18, who is unsure of himself in the world goes to a special missionary training session where all this stuff is preached.  No way he will have the strength to stand up and tell his MP, hey Prez. I think my companion is hitting on me.  He will think it is his fault, he did something wrong, he is the one who needs to repent, he isn't treating his companion the right way.

I've already seen a lesbian at a church dance attempt to pick up another non-lesbian young lady . . .but of course we can't talk about that because that would mean I'm bigoted or homophobic.

Open the can of worms, but don't want to deal with the consequences of that can of worms.

[YJacket]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Apply the same rules for homosexual as heterosexual.  Be respectful, but no romance/sexual relationship on a mission is allowed.

So it is appropriate then for a single young man to be a companion to a single young woman?

[jkwilliams]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Apply the same rules for homosexual as heterosexual.  Be respectful, but no romance/sexual relationship on a mission is allowed.

Again, anyone who has served a mission knows the mission president rather often reminds missionaries not to get involved in romance or sex. The idea that a missionary would be shamed for reporting another missionary making a pass at them is pure fantasy.

[Calm]

Just now, YJacket said:

So it is appropriate then for a single young man to be a companion to a single young woman?

Not going to repeat myself.

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, YJacket said:

It's like I said at the beginning, the LGBTETC crowd opened up a can of worms and they don't want to deal with the can of worms they have opened; so in order to not deal with the can of worms they do what you have done. Which is deny basic human societal structures. 

It's obvious that it is occurring right now, we just haven't heard about it yet.

Again, I've been called homophobic and bigoted for even bringing this subject up; and I don't give a rip what you people think of me and I'm much older where these things don't phase me one bit.

Now, a young man who's 18, who is unsure of himself in the world goes to a special missionary training session where all this stuff is preached.  No way he will have the strength to stand up and tell his MP, hey Prez. I think my companion is hitting on me.  He will think it is his fault, he did something wrong, he is the one who needs to repent, he isn't treating his companion the right way.

I've already seen a lesbian at a church dance attempt to pick up another non-lesbian young lady . . .but of course we can't talk about that because that would mean I'm bigoted or homophobic.

Open the can of worms, but don't want to deal with the consequences of that can of worms.

So, all this is just a fantasy in your head. You somehow believe that this "can of worms" is going to end up with the fantasy scenarios you've dreamed up. I've been critical of the way the LDS church treats gay members, but it's hardly fair to criticize a religion for something you dreamed up that has no relationship to real life.

[YJacket]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

You were claiming it is sanctioned.  Are you changing the scenario now?

Nice weasel. You know exactly what I'm talking about but you are attempting to dodge.

So you advocate for single young women to be companions with single young men?

[Calm]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

Again, anyone who has served a mission knows the mission president rather often reminds missionaries not to get involved in romance or sex. The idea that a missionary would be shamed for reporting another missionary making a pass at them is pure fantasy.

The Church highly promotes romance and marriage between males and females. Is there any sign anyone has seen that sister missionaries believe they will be ignored or disrespected if they report inappropriate behaviour by an elder and therefore sister missionaries are typically wary about reporting suc?