Overcoming Pornography Addition

[MorningStar]

Pornography addition:

 

1 pornography + 1 pornography = 2 pornographies

 

I can't stop adding pornography. 

[Ahab]

There is no such thing as a good addiction. Look up the definition of addiction.

If you're thinking all addictions are addictions to things that are bad or sinful then I can understand why you think I was talking about all addictions, because I was talking about those kinds of addictions. But a case can be made that some people have what they would consider addictions to good things.

Please never counsel anyone I love if they are struggling. Thanks.

If you love everyone as I do then you can consider your request rejected.

[Calm]

An addiction leads to a lack of self control. How is that not wrong even if the person is addicted to what is generally seen as good?

For example, there are people who are addicted to cleaning. There are people who are addicted to doing charity. These addictions interfere with them giving care and attention to other parts of their lives that need that attention, for example their family.

[The Nehor]

If you're thinking all addictions are addictions to things that are bad or sinful then I can understand why you think I was talking about all addictions, because I was talking about those kinds of addictions. But a case can be made that some people have what they would consider addictions to good things.

If you love everyone as I do then you can consider your request rejected.

An addiction to a good thing is still bad.

I do not love everyone. I believe in quality over quantity.

[Ahab]

An addiction leads to a lack of self control.

...or their continued self-will to continue a behavior that they don't want to stop. And as long as what someone is doing is good then there is no real need to stop.

How is that not wrong even if the person is addicted to what is generally seen as good?

Doing anything that is good is not wrong.

For example, there are people who are addicted to cleaning.

I will be cleaning forever. Won't you?

There are people who are addicted to doing charity. These addictions interfere with them giving care and attention to other parts of their lives that need that attention, for example their family.

Families will always need charity and have things that need to be cleaned and I plan to continue to clean things with them and for them and to do other acts of charity for them and with them, too. Forever.

[Calm]

Changing definitions of words to suit how you wish life was like does not contribute to enlightenment, but confusion in conversations with others. Works fine only if you are solely concerned with how you sound to yourself.

It is like declaring one has solved a crossword puzzle because the words fit the boxes while disregarding the clues that limit one's valid choices.

Edited April 2, 2015 by calmoriah

[Ahab]

Changing definitions of words to suit how you wish life was like does not contribute to enlightenment, but confusion in conversations with others. Works fine only if you are solely concerned with how you sound to yourself.

It is like declaring one has solved a crossword puzzle because the words fit the boxes while disregarding the clues that limit one's valid choices.

Is that your way of saying you don't agree with my understanding of what can be referred to as an "addiction"? That you don't see that as another valid definition?

Words have more than one meaning and I like to consider all of them when communicating with others. Can you at least see what I was talking about?

[Calm]

English is a wonderful language with its variety of potential meanings...poetry often depends on using a word in a unexpected way.

The problem arises when discussions are not poetic, but technical/clinical. Such discussions can only be meaningful if people are consistent in using the same definition.

When research has been performed with a certain definition/description of behaviour, to use a different description will lead to someone misinterpreting what the research demonstrates...what is effective and what isn't. At that point one moves into pseudoscience and such can end up hurting people.

If the intent is to help others, then it is best to avoid word usages that confuse the issue rather than add understanding...just as it is wiser to speak English to a group of English speakers if wanting to communicate instead of Spanish even if the Spanish is meaningful to other Spanish speakers and even shares words in common with English.

[Jeanne]

Nehor..have you any vices at all? 

[The Nehor]

Is that your way of saying you don't agree with my understanding of what can be referred to as an "addiction"? That you don't see that as another valid definition?

Words have more than one meaning and I like to consider all of them when communicating with others. Can you at least see what I was talking about?

Most words do have multiple definitions but the word addiction does not have the definition you want it to have. A friend joking about being addicted to exercise or chocolate does not change the meaning of make this meaning "valid".

[The Nehor]

Nehor..have you any vices at all?

Oh yeah. Being insulting and self-righteous on the Internet is only one of quite a few. I also enjoy white hot chocolate with caramel, world domination, lesbian porn involving the Statue of Liberty, suicidal ideation, Netflix binges, and skipping pointless service projects.

At least half of those are true.

[pogi]

The escape is to stop it. 

 

As one who has read much of the literature, applied the principles, participated in support groups, worked the steps, acted in faith, worked with bishops, family, spouse, therapy, cried, prayed, etc. etc. etc.  I have learned a thing or two about addiction.  In all of my experience, one of the key revelations that I learned, is that the problem is not in the superficial "acting-out".  No, if you are a true addict, there is a more visceral and dangerous beast lurking in the dark corners of your soul.  

 

If all one focuses on is avoiding the superficial behavior, and if all one has achieved is sobriety, then they have never experienced true recovery.

 

Sobriety is not recovery.  The root of the addiction has very little to do with the behavior.  If the root is not addressed, and full recovery not realized, then it will manifest itself in other unseemly ways in your life even if you never relapse.  There is no avoiding it.  The real problem will continue to fester in you. 

 

To simply avoid the behavior is like putting lipstick on a pig.  It was only when I started addressing the disease instead of the symptoms, that I was able to experience any significant change and lasting recovery.  Before I learned what the disease was, I was living your paradigm and advice Ahab.   I was working on sobriety harder than I have ever worked on anything in my life.   All of my energy was focused on avoiding the behavior.  In fact, there were several times when I thought that I had it beat.  I had over 2 years of sobriety, but sure enough, just like cutting the head off a dandelion the roots grew new heads again and again.  I could not understand it.  I was doing everything I was supposed to.  Praying daily with as much faith as I could possibly muster, reading my scriptures, receiving priesthood blessings, attending meetings, going to the temple, obeying the commandments.  I had faith and thought I was healed.  Nope. 

 

Once I figured out what the real demon was, I changed my battle strategy.  My focus and battle changed from avoiding urges to battling the false and destructive self-beliefs and paradigms, which led to isolation, which intensified the urges.  I stopped the shame game of beating myself up every time I relapsed.  I practiced self-love, empathy, and non-judgment.  You see, the problem was not the "acting out", it was the lack of real and honest intimacy in my life due to shame.  I had a protective wall around my heart because I was terrified of being discovered and rejected.  I was certain that people would not accept me, so I isolated.  Rejection doesn't hurt when people don't know the "real" you.  Porn filled the void with a pseudo intimacy.  When I believed as you do and followed your advice, I became irritable, nasty to be around, controlling, obsessively perfectionistic, judgmental, etc.  I was not a better person for stopping porn.  But once I was able to experience some real recovery, by facing my fears of rejection, opening up, sharing myself with others, redefining my self-perception and beliefs, the need for porn did not exist.  The urges still come up now and then, but they do not have any power, not even close to what it used to be.  

 

If I did not learn that there was more to addiction than the behavior, I would still be that nasty, irritable self-righteous jerk today.  Thank God I learned a better way. 

 

Sobriety is NOT the escape, recovery is. 

 

Telling addicts that they just need to stop it, or have more faith truly can be damaging as it furthers the shame cycle.  Yes, faith is needed, yes they do need to stop it, but there is a better way to achieve those goals than the way you are delivering it.  It is shaming to those struggling with relapse after relapse, despite their best efforts.  Their best efforts are simply mis-guided if all they are doing is trying to stop the behavior. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by pogi

[tietjens]

As one who has read much of the literature, applied the principles, participated in support groups, worked the steps, acted in faith, worked with bishops, family, spouse, therapy, cried, prayed, etc. etc. etc.  I have learned a thing or two about addiction.  In all of my experience, one of the key revelations that I learned, is that the problem is not in the superficial "acting-out".  No, if you are a true addict, there is a more visceral and dangerous beast lurking in the dark corners of your soul.  

 

If all one focuses on is avoiding the superficial behavior, and if all one has achieved is sobriety, then they have never experienced true recovery.

 

Sobriety is not recovery.  The root of the addiction has very little to do with the behavior.  If the root is not addressed, and full recovery not realized, then it will manifest itself in other unseemly ways in your life even if you never relapse.  There is no avoiding it.  The real problem will continue to fester in you. 

 

To simply avoid the behavior is like putting lipstick on a pig.  It was only when I started addressing the disease instead of the symptoms, that I was able to experience any significant change and lasting recovery.  Before I learned what the disease was, I was living your paradigm and advice Ahab.   I was working on sobriety harder than I have ever worked on anything in my life.   All of my energy was focused on avoiding the behavior.  In fact, there were several times when I thought that I had it beat.  I had over 2 years of sobriety, but sure enough, just like cutting the head off a dandelion the roots grew new heads again and again.  I could not understand it.  I was doing everything I was supposed to.  Praying daily with as much faith as I could possibly muster, reading my scriptures, receiving priesthood blessings, attending meetings, going to the temple, obeying the commandments.  I had faith and thought I was healed.  Nope. 

 

Once I figured out what the real demon was, I changed my battle strategy.  My focus and battle changed from avoiding urges to battling the false and destructive self-beliefs and paradigms, which led to isolation, which intensified the urges.  I stopped the shame game of beating myself up every time I relapsed.  I practiced self-love, empathy, and non-judgment.  You see, the problem was not the "acting out", it was the lack of real and honest intimacy in my life due to shame.  I had a protective wall around my heart because I was terrified of being discovered and rejected.  I was certain that people would not accept me, so I isolated.  Rejection doesn't hurt when people don't know the "real" you.  Porn filled the void with a pseudo intimacy.  When I believed as you do and followed your advice, I became irritable, nasty to be around, controlling, obsessively perfectionistic, judgmental, etc.  I was not a better person for stopping porn.  But once I was able to experience some real recovery, by facing my fears of rejection, opening up, sharing myself with others, redefining my self-perception and beliefs, the need for porn did not exist.  The urges still come up now and then, but they do not have any power, not even close to what it used to be.  

 

If I did not learn that there was more to addiction than the behavior, I would still be that nasty, irritable self-righteous jerk today.  Thank God I learned a better way. 

 

Sobriety is NOT the escape, recovery is. 

 

Telling addicts that they just need to stop it, or have more faith truly can be damaging as it furthers the shame cycle.  Yes, faith is needed, yes they do need to stop it, but there is a better way to achieve those goals than the way you are delivering it.  It is shaming to those struggling with relapse after relapse, despite their best efforts.  Their best efforts are simply mis-guided if all they are doing is trying to stop the behavior. 

 

Best post I have read so far....

[Ahab]

As one who has read much of the literature, applied the principles, participated in support groups, worked the steps, acted in faith, worked with bishops, family, spouse, therapy, cried, prayed, etc. etc. etc. I have learned a thing or two about addiction. In all of my experience, one of the key revelations that I learned, is that the problem is not in the superficial "acting-out". No, if you are a true addict, there is a more visceral and dangerous beast lurking in the dark corners of your soul.

If all one focuses on is avoiding the superficial behavior, and if all one has achieved is sobriety, then they have never experienced true recovery.

Sobriety is not recovery. The root of the addiction has very little to do with the behavior. If the root is not addressed, and full recovery not realized, then it will manifest itself in other unseemly ways in your life even if you never relapse. There is no avoiding it. The real problem will continue to fester in you.

To simply avoid the behavior is like putting lipstick on a pig. It was only when I started addressing the disease instead of the symptoms, that I was able to experience any significant change and lasting recovery. Before I learned what the disease was, I was living your paradigm and advice Ahab. I was working on sobriety harder than I have ever worked on anything in my life. All of my energy was focused on avoiding the behavior. In fact, there were several times when I thought that I had it beat. I had over 2 years of sobriety, but sure enough, just like cutting the head off a dandelion the roots grew new heads again and again. I could not understand it. I was doing everything I was supposed to. Praying daily with as much faith as I could possibly muster, reading my scriptures, receiving priesthood blessings, attending meetings, going to the temple, obeying the commandments. I had faith and thought I was healed. Nope.

Once I figured out what the real demon was, I changed my battle strategy. My focus and battle changed from avoiding urges to battling the false and destructive self-beliefs and paradigms, which led to isolation, which intensified the urges. I stopped the shame game of beating myself up every time I relapsed. I practiced self-love, empathy, and non-judgment. You see, the problem was not the "acting out", it was the lack of real and honest intimacy in my life due to shame. I had a protective wall around my heart because I was terrified of being discovered and rejected. I was certain that people would not accept me, so I isolated. Rejection doesn't hurt when people don't know the "real" you. Porn filled the void with a pseudo intimacy. When I believed as you do and followed your advice, I became irritable, nasty to be around, controlling, obsessively perfectionistic, judgmental, etc. I was not a better person for stopping porn. But once I was able to experience some real recovery, by facing my fears of rejection, opening up, sharing myself with others, redefining my self-perception and beliefs, the need for porn did not exist. The urges still come up now and then, but they do not have any power, not even close to what it used to be.

If I did not learn that there was more to addiction than the behavior, I would still be that nasty, irritable self-righteous jerk today. Thank God I learned a better way.

Sobriety is NOT the escape, recovery is.

Telling addicts that they just need to stop it, or have more faith truly can be damaging as it furthers the shame cycle. Yes, faith is needed, yes they do need to stop it, but there is a better way to achieve those goals than the way you are delivering it. It is shaming to those struggling with relapse after relapse, despite their best efforts. Their best efforts are good enough, they are just mis-guided if all they are doing is trying to stop the behavior.

Your comments tell me you're not understanding or accepting everything I've been saying. That little blurp you quoted from me was only part of my message. I also talked about replacing the bad habit with something good. And how faith in and from Christ plays a role in helping someone to know what Christ thinks and how Christ feels about any sinful behavior. He doesn't shame us. And I haven't been trying to shame anyone into stop doing something that is bad either. But we do need to stop sinning, at least if we ever want to stop sinning. To stop sinning and instead do something good with our time. That is the goal. To do only good things, and not do anything that is bad.

For me it all stopped when I got married to my wonderful woman, and she knows that I had that habit for years before I met her. And now I can see the difference between the good stuff and the bad stuff like the difference between night and day. I even hate the idea of porn now, and all it involves. And that's what they say about righteous and holy men, don't ya know. We can't look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. Sin is abhorrent to us. We love what is good and hate everything that is bad. We avoid what is evil.

[pogi]

To stop sinning and instead do something good with our time. That is the goal. To do only good things, and not do anything that is bad.

 

Too simplistic when the addict can't even see or is not aware of the disease beneath the skin to address it.  

 

My support can be condensed into a very simple message, basically saying to leave it behind.

 

 

I do understand you message Ahab, it is sobriety-centric.  It is the wrong battle plan for true recovery.

 

If "it all stopped" when you got married simply because you could "see the difference between the good stuff and the bad stuff", then you were never a true addict, more on the bad-habit end of the spectrum perhaps. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by pogi

[Ahab]

Too simplistic when the addict can't even see or is not aware of the disease beneath the skin to address it.

I do understand you message Ahab, it is sobriety-centric. It is the wrong battle plan for true recovery.

If "it all stopped" when you got married simply because you could "see the difference between the good stuff and the bad stuff", then you were never a true addict, more on the bad-habit end of the spectrum perhaps.

Well I wasn't as bad as I could imagine becoming, so if you're talking only about the very worst of the worst then maybe you have a good point. Just a bad habit maybe from age 13 to 40.

[why me]

An interesting article about porn addiction and its affects on behavior:

 

Come on you have to know that is too explicit and you don't even give a warning.  link removed

 

However, it is definitely not an academic article.

 

I do believe that porn does have an affect on college behavior and the problems we see there when it comes to sexuality. I do believe that many of these male students who find themselves in trouble with the law when it comes to sex crimes have been influenced by colleged themed porn.

[Yirgacheffe]

At church today, Stake leaders visited each unit and taught about the dangers of pornography during the 3rd hour with a combined audience of ages 12 and up members.

 

I would have taken my 12 year olds out of such a meeting.

[Antoni]

As one who has read much of the literature, applied the principles, participated in support groups, worked the steps, acted in faith, worked with bishops, family, spouse, therapy, cried, prayed, etc. etc. etc.  I have learned a thing or two about addiction.  In all of my experience, one of the key revelations that I learned, is that the problem is not in the superficial "acting-out".  No, if you are a true addict, there is a more visceral and dangerous beast lurking in the dark corners of your soul.  

 

If all one focuses on is avoiding the superficial behavior, and if all one has achieved is sobriety, then they have never experienced true recovery.

 

Sobriety is not recovery.  The root of the addiction has very little to do with the behavior.  If the root is not addressed, and full recovery not realized, then it will manifest itself in other unseemly ways in your life even if you never relapse.  There is no avoiding it.  The real problem will continue to fester in you. 

 

To simply avoid the behavior is like putting lipstick on a pig.  It was only when I started addressing the disease instead of the symptoms, that I was able to experience any significant change and lasting recovery.  Before I learned what the disease was, I was living your paradigm and advice Ahab.   I was working on sobriety harder than I have ever worked on anything in my life.   All of my energy was focused on avoiding the behavior.  In fact, there were several times when I thought that I had it beat.  I had over 2 years of sobriety, but sure enough, just like cutting the head off a dandelion the roots grew new heads again and again.  I could not understand it.  I was doing everything I was supposed to.  Praying daily with as much faith as I could possibly muster, reading my scriptures, receiving priesthood blessings, attending meetings, going to the temple, obeying the commandments.  I had faith and thought I was healed.  Nope. 

 

Once I figured out what the real demon was, I changed my battle strategy.  My focus and battle changed from avoiding urges to battling the false and destructive self-beliefs and paradigms, which led to isolation, which intensified the urges.  I stopped the shame game of beating myself up every time I relapsed.  I practiced self-love, empathy, and non-judgment.  You see, the problem was not the "acting out", it was the lack of real and honest intimacy in my life due to shame.  I had a protective wall around my heart because I was terrified of being discovered and rejected.  I was certain that people would not accept me, so I isolated.  Rejection doesn't hurt when people don't know the "real" you.  Porn filled the void with a pseudo intimacy.  When I believed as you do and followed your advice, I became irritable, nasty to be around, controlling, obsessively perfectionistic, judgmental, etc.  I was not a better person for stopping porn.  But once I was able to experience some real recovery, by facing my fears of rejection, opening up, sharing myself with others, redefining my self-perception and beliefs, the need for porn did not exist.  The urges still come up now and then, but they do not have any power, not even close to what it used to be.  

 

If I did not learn that there was more to addiction than the behavior, I would still be that nasty, irritable self-righteous jerk today.  Thank God I learned a better way. 

 

Sobriety is NOT the escape, recovery is. 

 

Telling addicts that they just need to stop it, or have more faith truly can be damaging as it furthers the shame cycle.  Yes, faith is needed, yes they do need to stop it, but there is a better way to achieve those goals than the way you are delivering it.  It is shaming to those struggling with relapse after relapse, despite their best efforts.  Their best efforts are simply mis-guided if all they are doing is trying to stop the behavior. 

Excellent post - a great deal of wisdom contained therein.

[cinepro]

An interesting article about porn addiction and its affects on behavior:

 

link removed

 

 

 

= rock bottom

[RegularMormon]

I would have taken my 12 year olds out of such a meeting.

 

Even when researchers are saying on average people are introduced to porn starting at age 10?

Edited April 4, 2015 by RegularMormon

[pogi]

 Well I wasn't as bad as I could imagine becoming, so if you're talking only about the very worst of the worst then maybe you have a good point. Just a bad habit maybe from age 13 to 40.

 

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.  I certainly am not "the worst of the worst", but am a typical addict from my experience in working with hundreds of addicts in groups over the years. 

[Yirgacheffe]

Even when researches are saying on average people are introduced to porn starting at age 10?

Yes because I don't think children should be combined with adults for such conversations. 

[why me]

= rock bottom

Like any addiction one can also overdose. Porn does have an overdose trait where the porn addict suddenly finds porn revolting. This lasts for several days and then once the overdose wears off, the porn addict is back viewing it.

 

In the case of the link, I think that the individual is using porn as a excuse. But I do think that his porn consumption got the best of him by distorting his reality. and mix that with a mental illness and that was the result.

Edited April 4, 2015 by why me

[Tacenda]

Like any addiction one can also overdose. Porn does have an overdose trait where the porn addict suddeny finds porn revolting. This lasts for several days and then once the overdose wears off, the porn addict is back viewing it.

In the case of the link, I that the individual is using porn as a excuse. But I do think that his porn consumption got the best of him by distorting his reality. and mix that with a mental illness and that was the result.

I wonder if porn addiction is similar to alcoholism. It strikes just those that have the gene. How some people can drink and be fine at social drinking or occasional use and others it can be a problem. I know alcoholism affected some in my family and I've heard that it can be hereditary or one can be susceptible. Therefore maybe it should be told that it only takes once, or that may or may not work. Since porn can happen without one's trying sometimes, which is so unfair.