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why me

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  1. Well, this would take a certain amount of intelligence by the nationalist to understand this quotation by Orwell. Most nationalists would put it more simply. Love of country. Or religion etc.
  2. I guess we will never know. The ability to discover the truth would have happened during Joseph's time. I am sure that investigations were done at that time. But nothing was found. Sidney Rigdon denied writing it on his deathbed. And Oliver denied it was a fraud on his deathbed. And the people jotting down the manuscript were fooled. Hard to believe.
  3. In today's vocabulary, the word nationalism is looked upon as negative. So, christian nationalism or a christian nationalist would be considered far right. It becomes equated with Muslim fundamentalism. It seems to me we are living in a world of division. And this would be another way to divide and not bring people together. s
  4. But then we have the problem with rough drafts, mistakes on paper, ink on hands etc. It must have taken a great amount of paper, not just on finished pages, but also on the pages he needed to crumble up and discard. It would have been quite a feat. And then of course, during critic investigation, the general store would needed to sell the materials. The person working there would be a great person to interview. Why would Joseph need reams of paper and ink would then be the question. But....it never happened. My guess is that the general stores in the area would have come forward and mentioned the amount of materials Joseph was buying. And draw conclusions.
  5. Paper is much more of a problem. Hard to hide a manuscript from people's eyes. We need to remember how people wrote back in his time. A feather pen, ink wells, etc. Not to mention rough drafts and ink blots. Plus the purchase of paper and pens. And then writing by candlelight. How to cover it all up?
  6. It is much better now. One can have a candy bar, just compensate the necessary insulin dosage. Or keep the body moving to burn it off. In the past everything was measured, now one can have many 'free foods' without it raising the blood sugar. And of course, diabetics should never drink alcohol because if the blood sugar goes low enough to cause problems, people will think that the person is drunk because of alcohol on the breath.
  7. The church is a world wide church and so, I think that you would still find members abroad use the word Mormon. It is really no big deal. To say the full name of the church is a mouthful. And when a person does say the full name, the person being told will ask: what kind of church is that? And eventually the word Mormon will come out. If not, and the person being told does come to church, he or she will say why didn't you tell me it was the Mormon church. It is a no winner.
  8. I am not sure if this something new. I have seen this photo before years ago on another board. It looks very familiar. But listening to the podcast, it is new. But will we ever really know if it is Joseph Smith? And why did the person who originally had it, keep it a secret. Amazing.
  9. I don't expect perfection from anyone, not even general authorities. I look at the big picture. I see a group of people who are attempting to navigate a problematic world. And who attempt to explain the scriptures the best as they can do at that time. At the end of the day, I need to make a judgement: all in all, they have done quite well in navigating members to live a good life and to avoid the pitfalls of modern life. And maybe that's enough.
  10. Maybe so. But I just know that if I engaged in fraud about translating good plates when I actually wrote the book myself, I don't think that I would entertain anyone who gave me an example of my own fraud. What would be the point? I would do everything to protect my fraud from mishap. I would just say: please take your plates to New York and find an expert to help you out because I am rather busy running a church and protecting it from enemies with a wink.
  11. Well, I do have an imagination that can put me into the body of a fraudster and know how I would react to such a situation. My first reaction would be to do a laugh and then set the fraudster on their way if I was also a fraudster with the book of mormon. I wouldn't be taken for a Mook. When I look at JS's life after he came forth with the book of mormon is one of misery. And for a fraudster to experience so much misery for a fraud found in a book is quite amazing. Why continue? Prison, marriage problems, money problems, tar and feathered, hated by many, running around trying to hide plates that do not exist etc. And eventually ending in death by an angry mob. Sticking with it to the end. Qutie something.
  12. What I am saying is that if he was a fraudster by claiming he translated the book of mormon from gold plates but in reality he didn't he would see this kinderhook fraud a mile away. That he attempted to do it showed that most likely he had that gold plate experience.
  13. The fact that he consider them to perhaps be real shows that most likely he was not a fraudster with the book of mormon. He kept an open mind until he realized that something smelled like a fish.
  14. No, if JS was a fraudster who made up the book of mormon 'fraud' he would never even consider those plates. He would know that they were a fraud
  15. Lets just say that I am a fraudster and a part of that fraud is the writing of the book of mormon. I make up a story about good plates and how I translated them. People believe my story and begin to follow me through a church. I also get 11 people to confirm my fraud whether they are part of fraud or not is not important. Then, a few years later someone comes to me with plates rather similiar to my fraud and asks me to translate them. If I were a fraudster why would I fall for this fraud. However, if I am not a frauster and I really did find gold plates maybe then I would at least give it a try. This is my take on it.
  16. EWhat we do know it was released in May. Why not wait? We know that this is just a draft and not the final outcome. Could it be that the conversation was changing inside the supreme court and if so, the draft was released for full effect? Or maybe June is a summer month and people would have other things on their minds: hot dogs, hamburgers, vacations, BBQs, vacation, kids, Or maybe it was just to help the Dems to divert failures that people have been experiencing: inflation, weak dollar, high gas prices, food prices, violence, war, etc. And poor numbers for democrat candidates, including Biden. They could have been sitting on this draft for weeks. Who knows?
  17. Okay. My point was simple: how to make a political thread non political. Roe vs Wade was political from the very beginning and has remained so. 🙂
  18. The supreme court is the third branch of government. It makes it political especially when someone released the draft for political reasons. Thereby, setting a president for the future. These days, it seems that all life is political.
  19. No, it was an original post by me. Just makes common sense. I find the American system interesting and predictable. Everyone expects an October surprise or a dirty trick coming down the pipe. And now we have this one. I have always found it amazing just how the americans got caught up with the Russian collusion idea for most of a presidency. Morning, noon and night broadcasts and hearings. Amazing at the time. And then the burying of the laptop story and the lies of the former intelligence service people. And now this. Bread and circuses for sure. A bag of popcorn always came in handy. 🍿
  20. It seems like a political dirty trick again to influence the mid-term elections and bring back life to one particular political party so that the American people will be diverted from the inflation and high prices that surround them. Not to mention the crime that prevents people from experiencing freedom in their own community. Not to mention the border tragedy and high rate of drug deaths.
  21. I don't see it that way. The change in polygamy was a do or die stance. The lds church needed to change course if it wished to survive. However, once polygamy was abolished the church became more mainstream in its value code. And this lasted for quite some time. However it stuck to its beliefs about morality issues even when the powers that be outside the church were involved in value change.
  22. The church and its members took a stance. Nothing wrong in that. Of course, it was overblown in the media in a negative way. I think that it showed changing times. We need to remember that even Obama was against SSM for many years before he had a change of mind. Values were changing but the LDS church did not decide to swim down stream.
  23. What was interesting it was after the Proclamation was published that things began to change morally in a drastic way. I had this impression that the proclamation was published just before a seachange in values.
  24. I think that it was also what the church was teaching morally. It was rather mainstream. I am reminded of the TV shows like Hazel, Leave it to Beaver, I love Lucy, Father knows best. All of these shows and much more were very mormon. The lds were not out of sync with mainstream values. The lds had a wholesome image.
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