Overcoming Pornography Addition

[teddyaware]

Ahab, I know you mean well, but you don't understand addiction at all.  To assume that you can cure addicts by convincing them that their behavior is bad is naive to say the least.  Do you really think that porn addicts don't know that it is bad and wrong behavior?  Do you really think that they don't want to stop?

 

They don't know how to stop.  Usually because they don't understand that porn is not the problem as much as it is a symptom of the problem.  While they try over and over to stop the symptom, the root of the disease will inevitably keep popping up undeterred.  Cutting off the head of a dandelion will not make it go away.  When I say "they don't know how to stop", obviously they know how to turn off a computer.  That is not the issue, the issue is that they have lost impulse control.  Their neuronal pathways, cerebral cortex and amygdala are literally damaged and don't function like they should.  Addiction is not simply a lack of will, it is an emotional, spiritual, and physical or biological/physiological disease. 

 

Telling me to avoid thinking about pink elephants only causes me to think more about pink elephants.  You can't just say "stop it", they need to learn new behaviors and coping mechanisms and find healing from old, unrelated wounds. 

 

 

You see, that is precisely what differentiates addicts from normal functioning individuals - addicts are powerless to stop on their own.  In fact, that is the first step to recovery - admitting that you have become powerless. 

 

Where does faith in the healing and strengthening power of the Lord Jesus Christ fit into overcoming pornography addiction? Is it not true the scriptures teach us it's by exercising living faith in the atoning power of Christ that addictions and the many other manifestations of the fallen human nature can be conquered? 

 

It was by exercising faith in Christ that thirty seven years ago I was enabled to overcome a debilitating and deeply entrenched addiction by going "cold turkey" and then never even once returning to the slave master that once shackled me in chains. For those who truly believe God is a God of miracles, the things the natural man believes are impossible to overcome can be overcome if there is but sufficient faith in the Saviour. And He is called the Saviour for a very good reason, because He saves and rescues those who trust Him and know He speaks the truth when He says "with God all things are possible."

 

As one who has been on the tumultuous battlefield of addiction and experienced Christ's mighty saving power, I know faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the answer; and it is for this very reason that faith in Christ is the first principle of the Gospel. The following words of Paul have been my battle-cry for decades, 'I can do all things through Christ, which strengtheneth me." 

Edited April 2, 2015 by teddyaware

[omni]

Where does faith in the healing and strengthening power of the Lord Jesus Christ fit into overcoming pornography addiction? Is it not true the scriptures teach us it's by exercising living faith in the atoning power of Christ that addictions and the many other manifestations of the fallen human nature can be conquered? 

 

It was by exercising faith in Christ that thirty seven years ago I was enabled to overcome a debilitating and deeply entrenched addiction by going "cold turkey" and then never even once returning to the slave master that once shackled me in chains. For those who truly believe God is a God of miracles, the things the natural man believes are impossible to overcome can be overcome if there is but sufficient faith in the Saviour. And He is called the Saviour for a very good reason, because He saves and rescues those who trust Him and know He speaks the truth when He says "with God all things are possible."

 

As one who has been on the tumultuous battlefield of addiction and experienced Christ's mighty saving power, I know faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the answer; and it is for this very reason that faith in Christ is the first principle of the Gospel. The following words of Paul have been my battle-cry for decades, 'I can do all things through Christ, which strengtheneth me."

I'm happy that you've been able to conquer your addiction, but I'm not understanding how your faith in Christ is what did it. No doubt there are millions of LDS and other Christians who maintain a strong faith in Christ yet struggle with pornograpghy. It seems to me there is something more that is needed.

[Ahab]

Ahab, I know you mean well, but you don't understand addiction at all. To assume that you can cure addicts by convincing them that their behavior is bad is naive to say the least. Do you really think that porn addicts don't know that it is bad and wrong behavior? Do you really think that they don't want to stop?

They don't know how to stop. Usually because they don't understand that porn is not the problem as much as it is a symptom of the problem. While they try over and over to stop the symptom, the root of the disease will inevitably keep popping up undeterred. Cutting off the head of a dandelion will not make it go away. When I say "they don't know how to stop", obviously they know how to turn off a computer. That is not the issue, the issue is that they have lost impulse control. Their neuronal pathways, cerebral cortex and amygdala are literally damaged and don't function like they should. Addiction is not simply a lack of will, it is an emotional, spiritual, and physical or biological/physiological disease.

Telling me to avoid thinking about pink elephants only causes me to think more about pink elephants. You can't just say "stop it", they need to learn new behaviors and coping mechanisms and find healing from old, unrelated wounds.

You see, that is precisely what differentiates addicts from normal functioning individuals - addicts are powerless to stop on their own. In fact, that is the first step to recovery - admitting that you have become powerless.

You're either in denial mode or not paying attention, or both.

Did you miss the part where I said I had the habit for years? I was an addict. And then I just turned away. I repented. I started avoiding it instead of continuing to indulge in it. It wasn't easy at first but I did it. I stopped. And it's been many years since I've seen any of it other than what I can still remember when I think about what the word porn refers to that I saw when I didn't avoid it.

The idea that people can't avoid it is false.

Please stop saying avoiding it doesn't work.

[Ahab]

I'm happy that you've been able to conquer your addiction, but I'm not understanding how your faith in Christ is what did it. No doubt there are millions of LDS and other Christians who maintain a strong faith in Christ yet struggle with pornograpghy. It seems to me there is something more that is needed.

Now that I agree with. Something in addition to faith in or from Christ is needed to overcome any sin and that "extra thing" is what we refer to as "repentance". The turning away or avoidance of sin.

Faith in or from Christ is what helps a person to be sure about how Christ views a particular issue so that what that faith is founded upon is a testimony from Christ on that issue. So in this case faith is what helps a person to know what Christ thinks and how Christ feels about pornography, and what should then follow is repentance from it, at least for those who haven't already repented. And for those who haven't repented yet it is faith in and from Christ that tells them they should repent from it. That they should repent from porn, or in other words, avoid it.

And it doesn't help matters much when somebody like you says telling someone to avoid it is not enough for them to conquer their problem with porn when that is exactly what they should do.

[teddyaware]

I'm happy that you've been able to conquer your addiction, but I'm not understanding how your faith in Christ is what did it. No doubt there are millions of LDS and other Christians who maintain a strong faith in Christ yet struggle with pornograpghy. It seems to me there is something more that is needed.

 

For those with sufficient faith in Christ, nothing more is needed to overcome pornography addiction. If one possesses sufficient faith in the Son of God, the light of heaven enlightens and infuses his soul to the point that his former addiction looses its allure, for the carnal pleasures of the addiction are nothing when compared to the joy and spiritual freedom that inevitably follow in the wake of being forgiven by Heavenly Father and filled with the Spirit of God.

 

18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

 19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.

 20 And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain! (Alma 36)

 

For those who lack sufficient faith to fully repent and put their addiction behind them once and for all, they will need ongoing counseling and recovery programs.

Edited April 2, 2015 by teddyaware

[pogi]

Please stop saying avoiding it doesn't work.

 

I am glad it worked for you.  

[pogi]

Where does faith in the healing and strengthening power of the Lord Jesus Christ fit into overcoming pornography addiction?

 

Faith is an absolutely essential and integral variable in overcoming addiction.  The 12 steps helps us to acknowledge our own powerlessness and teaches us to turn instead to the source of all power for healing.  We stop looking inward and start looking upward for power and strength. 

 

Faith is not always as simple as simply deciding to stop cold turkey and praying for help.  This type of healing faith requires a level of humility and vulnerability that addicts (and most other people to be honest) are not accustomed to, or they would not be addicts in the first place.  It often requires a complete spiritual overhaul of the addict before such humility and vulnerability can be attained.  It requires a mighty change of heart, which is a process and not usually a single event as with Alma the younger. 

Edited April 2, 2015 by pogi

[why me]

Well, tell the church to quit bringing it up then!

Ahab, you seem to be giving "porn" way too much power when you are afraid to use the word. We need to make porn a big joke!!

I was in charge of White Ribbon Week at a high school a few years ago. Can't remember what the sign said but the students signed a huge poster that said they were not going to look at porn. Hopefully it helped them make a good choice later, when it is placed before them, or when making a decision to view it.

Porn is not a joke even if we make it into one. Quite a few porn actors commit suicide. Or they catch HIV. The basic line for the church should not be addiction but rather an outreach to our spiritual brothers and sisters who are engaged in the business. And an awareness for the lds members to understand that by watching porn they are giving an opportunity for their spiritual brothers and sisters to sin in a huge way. In other words, we need more solidarity in a world that is becoming extremely individualistic.

[The Nehor]

You're either in denial mode or not paying attention, or both.

Did you miss the part where I said I had the habit for years? I was an addict. And then I just turned away. I repented. I started avoiding it instead of continuing to indulge in it. It wasn't easy at first but I did it. I stopped. And it's been many years since I've seen any of it other than what I can still remember when I think about what the word porn refers to that I saw when I didn't avoid it.

The idea that people can't avoid it is false.

Please stop saying avoiding it doesn't work.

 

And those situations happen. I know one man who walked out the door to go to work an alcoholic and returned with no desire for it. While avoiding the sin or circumstances where the sin is easy to commit are crucial often those two factors alone are not enough to heal someone. I am glad it worked for you but generalizing that everyone will walk that path if they just decide to avoid the source of their addiction and they will win is just completely wrong.

[why me]

The idea that people can't avoid it is false.

Please stop saying avoiding it doesn't work.

Again, some people can't stop avoiding it. If I open the tabloid press, I see articles about a college student who began to act in porn to pay for college loans. Or I read about a wall street intern who went to porn because she was very beautiful and sexual. Or I read about kim kardashian and her porn flick to fame etc, etc, Then, I see beautiful or hunky guys dressed to kill in poses that may be considered pornographic. It is unavoidable these days. So, the problem. Or I watch america's next top model or the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition, all reminders of porn.

 

We need to stress the lds stance on modesty more...this may help the porn addicted immensely.

Edited April 2, 2015 by why me

[The Nehor]

For those with sufficient faith in Christ, nothing more is needed to overcome pornography addiction. If one possesses sufficient faith in the Son of God, the light of heaven enlightens and infuses his soul to the point that his former addiction looses its allure, for the carnal pleasures of the addiction are nothing when compared to the joy and spiritual freedom that inevitably follow in the wake of being forgiven by Heavenly Father and filled with the Spirit of God.

 

18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

 19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.

 20 And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain! (Alma 36)

 

For those who lack sufficient faith to fully repent and put their addiction behind them once and for all, they will need ongoing counseling and recovery programs.

 

Again, a specific incident generalized to include everyone. Telling someone that if they had enough faith their addiction would just fade away is......bad counsel. In fact I think it would actually increase the number of suicides. I know when I had to detox from an addiction not truly of my own making if you told me that if I had had faith the whole thing would have been easy I may not have committed suicide but I would have probably punched you in the face and called you a liar.

[tietjens]

Where does faith in the healing and strengthening power of the Lord Jesus Christ fit into overcoming pornography addiction? Is it not true the scriptures teach us it's by exercising living faith in the atoning power of Christ that addictions and the many other manifestations of the fallen human nature can be conquered? 

 

It was by exercising faith in Christ that thirty seven years ago I was enabled to overcome a debilitating and deeply entrenched addiction by going "cold turkey" and then never even once returning to the slave master that once shackled me in chains. For those who truly believe God is a God of miracles, the things the natural man believes are impossible to overcome can be overcome if there is but sufficient faith in the Saviour. And He is called the Saviour for a very good reason, because He saves and rescues those who trust Him and know He speaks the truth when He says "with God all things are possible."

 

As one who has been on the tumultuous battlefield of addiction and experienced Christ's mighty saving power, I know faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the answer; and it is for this very reason that faith in Christ is the first principle of the Gospel. The following words of Paul have been my battle-cry for decades, 'I can do all things through Christ, which strengtheneth me." 

 

You must be a man of mighty faith.

 

I remember the last visit I had with a church leader, not about porn or sex but about drugs, drugs I was using which had really gotten out of control and I couldn't stop. I'd been on a mission, I'd had church leadership positions after my mission and I'd been married in the temple, but here I was at age 30 using drugs. (It is a long story of how this came about that I will not go into.) I was at my wits end, really just desperate for help. I'd been to rehab and was sober but I knew I would relapse again. My feeling was that if I couldn't come to grips with this I just wanted to die, in fact one night I passed a hearse on my way home from work and there was a coffin the hearse and I said out loud, "I wish that were me." I really just wanted to be dead, I wished for death.

 

Anyway, my wife called the bishop and sometime later I was sitting in his office. I'd come out of rehab and I was sober but I knew on some level I wasn't going to be sober long. This was the first time I'd ever met with this bishop, I really didn't know him at all. I spilled my guts, he listened. I looked at him and it was clear, or seemed to be clear he hadn't understood anything. He said

 

"My dad used to drink. But he cultivated the holy spirit and he has been sober now for 20 years."

 

Long silence. I sat there thinking, "It was a mistake for me to come here." I said something and thanked him for his help and left. That was the last church leader I talked with.

 

I know things have changed now and there is a lot of help for addicts. I have been to LDS sponsored 12 step mtgs and I can tell things are different. I am glad for this. One of the reasons I want to become active again is because I know with my experience and what I have learned I can help other addicts.

[teddyaware]

You must be a man of mighty faith.

 

I remember the last visit I had with a church leader, not about porn or sex but about drugs, drugs I was using which had really gotten out of control and I couldn't stop. I'd been on a mission, I'd had church leadership positions after my mission and I'd been married in the temple, but here I was at age 30 using drugs. (It is a long story of how this came about that I will not go into.) I was at my wits end, really just desperate for help. I'd been to rehab and was sober but I knew I would relapse again. My feeling was that if I couldn't come to grips with this I just wanted to die, in fact one night I passed a hearse on my way home from work and there was a coffin the hearse and I said out loud, "I wish that were me." I really just wanted to be dead, I wished for death.

 

Anyway, my wife called the bishop and sometime later I was sitting in his office. I'd come out of rehab and I was sober but I knew on some level I wasn't going to be sober long. This was the first time I'd ever met with this bishop, I really didn't know him at all. I spilled my guts, he listened. I looked at him and it was clear, or seemed to be clear he hadn't understood anything. He said

 

"My dad used to drink. But he cultivated the holy spirit and he has been sober now for 20 years."

 

Long silence. I sat there thinking, "It was a mistake for me to come here." I said something and thanked him for his help and left. That was the last church leader I talked with.

 

I know things have changed now and there is a lot of help for addicts. I have been to LDS sponsored 12 step mtgs and I can tell things are different. I am glad for this. One of the reasons I want to become active again is because I know with my experience and what I have learned I can help other addicts.

 

Though it was great faith in Christ that enabled me to overcome my addiction, it must be understood that kicking my addiction was not an easy road. For the first week I had many bouts when i wept bitter streams of tears, as if I was in morning for someone I dearly loved who had passed on. Thereafter I still struggled to remain clean but it was my faith in Christ than enabled me to, in a manner of speaking, embrace and endure the misery and darkness that surrounded me. Through my faith I came to understand embracing and enduring the misery and darkness would be the means whereby God would build my character and spiritual strength. Through it all, no matter how bad things got, I could always see a bright light at the end of the dark tunnel was traveling. And though at times it seemed small, the light was always brilliant and it eventually grew brighter until I emerged into the fullness of that light in victory. The key to overcoming addiction by faith in Christ is being willing to face your personal misery and darkness as a sort of great spiritual adventure, knowing all the while that as you fight your inner demons Christ fully understands what you're going through as He stands at your side cheering you onward to ultimate triumph. 

 

All the best to you and yours.

[teddyaware]

Again, a specific incident generalized to include everyone. Telling someone that if they had enough faith their addiction would just fade away is......bad counsel. In fact I think it would actually increase the number of suicides. I know when I had to detox from an addiction not truly of my own making if you told me that if I had had faith the whole thing would have been easy I may not have committed suicide but I would have probably punched you in the face and called you a liar.

 

The thing you accuse me of incorrectly teaching is exactly the same thing the scriptures repeatedly teach us to believe over and over and over again. So in spite of your rebuff, I feel I'm in very good company. Just because men lack faith doesn't mean faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is not the answer. And I'm quite sure Alma the younger and Paul would agree with me:

 

 

 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, thee evidence of things not seen.

 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance,obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

 13 These all died in faith, not having received thepromises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that countryfrom whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered upIsaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

 21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

 22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a properchild; and they were not afraid of the king’s commandment.

 24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter;

 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

 29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dryland: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

 31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

 32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and ofJephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths oflions,

 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. (Hebrews 11)

Edited April 2, 2015 by teddyaware

[Antoni]

Here's my 2 pence worth:

 

I'm a recovering Porn Addict - I don't use that word "addict" lightly. I've only recently come to terms with calling myself that, and for those that doubt that is the right word for me to use.

 

One of the things that drew me to this church was its stance on pornography and the teachings many GA's have given over the years. Pres. Monson's talk from the 70's is truly prophetic.

 

I think we do need perhaps a few more higher profile leaders to talk about their struggles if they've had them. But the resources the church has released are very good.

 

I only saw this http://bcove.me/jae7gpmz today from the https://addictionrecovery.lds.org/?lang=eng website.

 

I recommend the following books - "The Drug of the New Millenium" by Mark Kastleman - gives a brilliant overview of what's going on inside the mind when a porn addict acts out and how that's DIFFERENT to what happens in the context of sex within a marriage.

 

"The Waterfall Concept" by Roger Stark is the best book on recovery I've read. I still have much to in implementing it.

 

I do know that I won't shy away from discussing it with people and if the Lord ever calls me to serve in a more high profile calling, I'll declare from the rooftops what I've learnt and the grace of the Lord that has helped me.

 

In His Grace

 

Antoni.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Antoni

[The Nehor]

The thing you accuse me of incorrectly teaching is exactly the same thing the scriptures repeatedly teach us to believe over and over and over again. So in spite of your rebuff, I feel I'm in very good company. Just because men lack faith doesn't mean faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is not the answer. And I'm quite sure Alma the younger and Paul would agree with me:

 

 

 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, thee evidence of things not seen.

 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance,obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

 13 These all died in faith, not having received thepromises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that countryfrom whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered upIsaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

 21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

 22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a properchild; and they were not afraid of the king’s commandment.

 24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter;

 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

 29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dryland: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

 31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

 32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and ofJephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths oflions,

 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. (Hebrews 11)

Utter crap.

Not what you said taken in isolation but your silly about-face. In one post you talk about how one only needs faith to overcome an addiction and then you can walk away, then you tell your own story and talk about pain and suffering along the way. And then you talk as if my response was an attack on faith itself and you defend faith as if I am an apostate arguing faith is bunk. Your position morphs by the minute. So is a program to help with a sin a sign of faithlessness as you said or not? Was Paul's faithlessness why God refused to remove the "thorn" he struggled with?

[Ahab]

Utter crap.

Not what you said taken in isolation but your silly about-face. In one post you talk about how one only needs faith to overcome an addiction and then you can walk away, then you tell your own story and talk about pain and suffering along the way. And then you talk as if my response was an attack on faith itself and you defend faith as if I am an apostate arguing faith is bunk. Your position morphs by the minute. So is a program to help with a sin a sign of faithlessness as you said or not? Was Paul's faithlessness why God refused to remove the "thorn" he struggled with?

If you have ever overcome any sin in your own life that you could have then referred to as an addiction, you should now be able to identify the specific steps you had to take in your mental/spiritual mind that enabled you to overcome that sin.

Something like this, perhaps:

1: Realize you have an addiction

2: Realize the addiction is to something bad (Faith in and from Christ would tell you whether the addiction was to something bad)

3: Ask God to help you stop, maybe by making you aware that you are being tempted to do something bad and reminding you that you should not give in to that temptation

4: Avoid the activity as much as you can, meaning that when you feel the temptation you should avoid thinking about it and removing yourself from an environment where giving in to the temptation would be more likely

5: Find a good alternative for your bad habit as you continue to avoid your bad habit and using the time that you would otherwise be devoting to that bad habit to instead find or participate in that good alternative

6: Have I already mentioned avoiding the bad habit and the temptation while instead doing something good with your time? That's okay. It's worth repeating.

7. Before you know it you will be avoiding the bad habit and instead be doing something good as an alternative.

[The Nehor]

If you have ever overcome any sin in your own life that you could have then referred to as an addiction, you should now be able to identify the specific steps you had to take in your mental/spiritual mind that enabled you to overcome that sin.

Something like this, perhaps:

1: Realize you have an addiction

2: Realize the addiction is to something bad (Faith in and from Christ would tell you whether the addiction was to something bad)

3: Ask God to help you stop, maybe by making you aware that you are being tempted to do something bad and reminding you that you should not give in to that temptation

4: Avoid the activity as much as you can, meaning that when you feel the temptation you should avoid thinking about it and removing yourself from an environment where giving in to the temptation would be more likely

5: Find a good alternative for your bad habit as you continue to avoid your bad habit and using the time that you would otherwise be devoting to that bad habit to instead find or participate in that good alternative

6: Have I already mentioned avoiding the bad habit and the temptation while instead doing something good with your time? That's okay. It's worth repeating.

7. Before you know it you will be avoiding the bad habit and instead be doing something good as an alternative.

 

1. I realized it when I tried to quit medication prescribed to me.

2. It wasn't bad. It was just bad at that time and my brain chemistry for some reason made me susceptible to addiction.

3. I was not tempted to continue. I just had to endure the withdrawal.

4. I avoided it by not having the medication around.

5. My alternative was writhing in agony while detoxxing. Does this count as a good alternative?

6. It's really not worth repeating.

7. No, I gave up the writhing in agony too. Guess I didn't keep the good habit. Does this mean I failed?

 

Welp, my experience didn't fall into your neat little box and lots of other peoples will not either. Are you willing to admit your magical cure-all may not work in all cases?

[Ahab]

1. I realized it when I tried to quit medication prescribed to me.

2. It wasn't bad. It was just bad at that time and my brain chemistry for some reason made me susceptible to addiction.

3. I was not tempted to continue. I just had to endure the withdrawal.

4. I avoided it by not having the medication around.

5. My alternative was writhing in agony while detoxxing. Does this count as a good alternative?

6. It's really not worth repeating.

7. No, I gave up the writhing in agony too. Guess I didn't keep the good habit. Does this mean I failed?

Welp, my experience didn't fall into your neat little box and lots of other peoples will not either. Are you willing to admit your magical cure-all may not work in all cases?

Now read what I said, again. Beginning with the words "If you have ever overcome any sin..."

And then read it all again and again before responding to me, again.

And FYI, if you would just take my $0.02 and compound the interest daily it wouldn't take very long before my $0.02 would mean a lot more to you.

[The Nehor]

Now read what I said, again. Beginning with the words "If you have ever overcome any sin..."

And then read it all again and again before responding to me, again.

And FYI, if you would just take my $0.02 and compound the interest daily it wouldn't take very long before my $0.02 would mean a lot more to you.

 

Yes, you are very clever. You give specific inane advice about addiction and now you backpedal and it only applies if there was a sin involved. I could tell you another story about overcoming an addiction which also does not fit your paradigm that you just made up as you were typing it but I am sure you will backpedal again or make up a new one or whatever. Fortunately you are mostly harmless but pre-packaged bad advice like this can actually hurt people with real problems.

 

Actually it would be centuries before I cared about your compounded interest unless you are setting an absurdly high interest rate.

[Ahab]

Yes, you are very clever. You give specific inane advice about addiction and now you backpedal and it only applies if there was a sin involved. I could tell you another story about overcoming an addiction which also does not fit your paradigm that you just made up as you were typing it but I am sure you will backpedal again or make up a new one or whatever. Fortunately you are mostly harmless but pre-packaged bad advice like this can actually hurt people with real problems.

Actually it would be centuries before I cared about your compounded interest unless you are setting an absurdly high interest rate.

Wow. I need a hug after reading all that.

You can be funny, sometimes, but you can also be mean.

And all of that in response to my main message that the best way to overcome sin is to avoid it. Practical advice. Which you scoff at and don't seem to value as the good advice it is.

Oh well. Others can see the value and that is enough interest for me.

[Duncan]

here's a question, do you think an addiction is a sin? it could be any addiction, porn, eating, buying ties on ebay on impulse....Some addictions are harder to stop than others and some you don't willingly go against God 

[The Nehor]

Wow. I need a hug after reading all that.

You can be funny, sometimes, but you can also be mean.

And all of that in response to my main message that the best way to overcome sin is to avoid it. Practical advice. Which you scoff at and don't seem to value as the good advice it is.

Oh well. Others can see the value and that is enough interest for me.

Yes, I am sometimes mean.

No, you were not just saying the best way to overcome sin is to avoid it. You were saying that if you avoid an addiction you can beat it which is patently untrue. Even if it were in many cases it would lead to the equivalent of a "sober alcoholic" or "dry drunk" in many cases.

Even allowing that I am mean it is more cruel for you to share your addiction remedies with others who are flirting with despair because there seems to be no escape.

[Ahab]

Yes, I am sometimes mean.

No, you were not just saying the best way to overcome sin is to avoid it. You were saying that if you avoid an addiction you can beat it which is patently untrue. Even if it were in many cases it would lead to the equivalent of a "sober alcoholic" or "dry drunk" in many cases.

I was talking about an addiction to something bad, as is a sin, not just any kind of addiction. Some addictions are good, like an addiction to love or anything else that is good and there is no need to repent from addictions like that. So at least get what I am saying before you criticize me for what I am saying.

And even a "sober alcoholic" who avoids alcohol is on the right path. The whole point is to not give in to an addiction to sin or the temptations to continue to indulge in sin. To turn away from it. To avoid it. To stop doing it.

Even allowing that I am mean it is more cruel for you to share your addiction remedies with others who are flirting with despair because there seems to be no escape.

The escape is to stop it. We can't always stop the temptations and we don't need to kill ourselves to be able to stop committing a sin.

And no it is not cruel at all to give that message.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ahab

[The Nehor]

I was talking about an addiction to something bad, as is a sin, not just any kind of addiction. Some addictions are good, like an addiction to love or anything else that is good and there is no need to repent from addictions like that. So at least get what I am saying before you criticize me for what I am saying.

And even a "sober alcoholic" who avoids alcohol is on the right path. The whole point is to not give in to an addiction to sin or the temptations to continue to indulge in sin. To turn away from it. To avoid it. To stop doing it.The escape is to stop it. We can't always stop the temptations and we don't need to kill ourselves to be able to stop committing a sin.

And no it is not cruel at all to give that message.

There is no such thing as a good addiction. Look up the definition of addiction.

Please never counsel anyone I love if they are struggling. Thanks.