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Everything posted by teddyaware

  1. According to Doctrine and Covenants 93, all the children of God, not just Christ, had a divine origin prior to being born as the spirit sons and daughters of God. 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth; Doctrine and Covenants 93) The above verse indicates that even before our pre-mortal spirit birth we existed from all eternity as a living component of the uncreated Spirit of truth that fills eternity and the immensity of the sidereal universe. 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. (Doctrine and Covenants 93) Verse 29 restates verse 23, but in this case it is revealed we were the uncreated “light of truth”(interchangeable with the expression’Spirit of truth’) prior to being born as spirit sons and daughters unto God. As far as God the Father’s personal experience with the suffering required in order to make an effectual infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice is concerned, I believe he was intimately acquainted with that suffering before Christ experienced it in the flesh because God, as an omniscient being, perfectly knows and fully comprehends all things, most especially what’s entailed in making an atoning sacrifice. Therefore Christ was ultimately willing to suffer infinitely and eternally for our sins because he understood that his Father experienced precisely the same suffering he was being commanded to endure. In the religion of the Latter-Day Saints, God doesn’t just talk the talk but he sets the example by perfectly walking the walk as well, in this case by traversing through the fiery darkness of hell.
  2. In the earlier decades of my 52 years of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I wondered how it was possible that the following most sobering prophecy could be fulfilled? But after reading all the blasphemous and pitiful wishy washy comments on this thread, I’m no longer in a state of wonder as to why God’ is going to pour out his terrible judgements of retribution upon his Church first, as an unmistakable sign that the great tribulation of the last days has begun. 23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. 24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. 25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; 26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.
  3. How can someone be so lacking in self-awareness as to not catch the excruciatingly obvious irony in your comment? As if the mass slaughter of 62 million innocent human beings in the United States since 1973, by highly trained and equipt so-called medical professionals, isn’t a supreme example of “mechanized carnage?”
  4. The ultimate manifestation of balkanization in America will take place when Zion is established and the righteous followers of Christ are physically separated from the rebellious in preparation for the day when God pours out his judgements of destruction upon the wicked to their utter overthrow. As Doctrine and Covenants 45 powerfully testifies, balkanization isn’t always a bad thing. Or do you believe the New Jerusalem and Zion is a bad idea?. 66 And it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God; 67 And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion. 68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety. 69 And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another. 70 And it shall be said among the wicked: Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible; wherefore we cannot stand. 71 And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion, singing with songs of everlasting joy. (Doctrine and Covenants 45)
  5. The thing I find most thought provoking within ‘the embodied Adam being born of a woman’ vs ‘the body of Adam first being formed like Pinocchio and then animated’ debate is that the resurrection, whether it be the resurrection of a Lazarus or the bodily resurrection into immortality, clearly demonstrates that God can indeed take a pile of dirt, mold it inwardly and outwardly into the form of a man, and then animate it with a spirit. Of course, the mystery and apparent inconsistency here can easily be explained when one realizes that before a resurrection can take place there must first be the natural creation of a body with the infusion of a genetic ‘fingerprint’ (DNA) from both a father and a mother.
  6. I love your post, Papa! You’re exactly right! The only reason why the Reformers are called Reformers and not Restorers is because they did the best they could on their own to bring back a semblance to the true faith. But they knew they were doing it of their own volition, not by being directly commanded of God through the means of divine visitations, visions and revelations.
  7. You must know in your heart my argument is very strong. Do you really think a Church that slaughtered and tortured multitudes for righteously exercising their God given freedom of conscience wasn’t in a state of total apostasy?
  8. The answer to your question is very simple: In the Old Testament, the prophet Samuel was condemning the fact that the Lord’s people had descended into a dead religion based on the observances of spiritually empty liturgical formalities, such as the outward Mosaic ordinances of animal sacrifices and burnt offerings, while simultaneously rebelliously refusing to obey God’s greater commandments, such as loving God with all one’s heart and similarly loving one’s fellow man. In other words, ‘your animal sacrifices will mean nothing to me until you repent and keep my greater commandments.’ 22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams? (1 Samuel 15)
  9. You’re making my point. The Reformers believed the Catholic Church was in a state of apostasy, which necessitated their attempts at the creation of new churches that they believed would restore Christianity to its purity. This means that if the Reformers had’t broken away from the Catholic Church and established what they individually believed were restorations of pure Christianity, then the only church remaining on earth would be one that was in apostasy. Protestantism is really a misnomer because true protesters would have remained in the Catholic Church and functioned as the loyal opposition, pushing for a reversion back to pure Christianity. But of course they couldn’t do that because the apostate Popes and Bishops would have had them killed, like the protesting multitudes who were exterminated by the apostate church before them.
  10. I find it peculiar that Protestants decry our claim of an apostasy, yet the whole reason why their churches exist is because the Reformers fervently beloved the Catholic Church had irredeemably gone off the rails. If they really stopped to think about it they’d realize the only difference between their response to the apostasy and ours is that they think they “restored” the true Church hundreds of years before Joseph Smith did.
  11. First, I agree with the following from James E Talmage: Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained that Satan actually “furthered the purposes of the Creator by tempting Eve; yet his design was to thwart the Lord’s plan. We are definitely told that ‘he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.’ [Moses 4:6.] Yet his diabolical effort, far from being the initiatory step toward destruction, contributed to the plan of man’s eternal progression” (The Articles of Faith, 12th ed. [1924], 69). So how it possible that one who once knew the mind of God, and his great and marvelous plan of salvation, could have somehow forgotten what he once correctly understood? The simple, instructive and powerful answer is found in Alma 12. 10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full. 11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell. Without the indwelling of the Spirit of God, which enables its recipients to correctly discern and comprehend truth, they are led into all kinds of pernicious and destructive errors. In Lucifer’s case, because he no longer possessed any measure of the Spirit, he was spiritually abandoned and finally totally deceived by his own limitless pride into believing he was one of the ‘good guys’ simply because he was doing what others had done before him. He literally fulfilled Alma’s dire warning because he lost more and more of the Spirit until he knew absolutely nothing concerning God’s mysterious ways. The Book of Mormon calls such forgetting the “sleep of death.”
  12. Exactly! The first great commandment is to love God with all your heart; the second is like unto the first, and that is to love your fellow man with equal passion. Both commandments are interdependent and inextricably linked.
  13. The devil’s motivation to persuade Eve, and then Adam, to partake of the forbidden fruit was so that he could get the opportunity, within the divinely ordained system of human agency, to drag as many of the sons and daughters of God down into the misery of hell with him, and this as an act of hateful revenge against the God whom he hates. The Lord’s motivation to allow the fall to occur was so that his children could be tested in an existence that’s predicated on the eternal principle of opposition in all things, for by this means the Lord could best help his children to dynamically advance in their spiritual progress, and then finally save them eternally in one of his three heavenly mansions of glory. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, existence can only be affirmed on the eternal principle of there being diametric opposition in all things. And the only way to have a meaningful existence is to be engaged in the eternal battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil. If our first parents hadn’t fallen, their existence would have been meaningless, purposeless and devoid of abundant knowledge, wisdom and joy. Those who spend their lives refusing to engage valiantly in the eternal war against the very real forces of evil, chaos and destruction (due to the fact they recoil at the thought that “there must needs be opposition in all things”) will eventually be relegated to either the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms of glory, after the resurrection and final judgement. But we’re told that both of these heavenly realms are so wonderful and glorious that they are beyond present human comprehension, which means God is a very merciful and compassionate Being. But wishing that there didn’t have to be an eternal war of good against evil will not make it so; and wishing existence didn’t have to be affirmed on the unchanging principle opposition in all things will also not make it so. But remember, if there were no opposition in all things nothing could exist, not even God. It’s important to realize that, with great joy, we all voluntarily desired to enter and engage with this fallen world because we knew the great glory that would follow after a brief period of trial, suffering and tribulation. If some have now soured on the idea, that’s OK, but they just need to understand that they will be relegated to a lower kingdom of glory where their freedom will be restricted. What it all boils down to is this: who is and who isn’t willing to accept and effectively deal with reality. Satan and the one-third host who were cast out of heaven not only couldn’t accept reality but from the beginning have made all out war against “things as they really are.” I must say I sympathize with you because it’s a hopeless cause that you will ever receive satisfactory and soul comforting answers to your many doubts and questions until you receive those answers from the Holy Ghost — there is no other way.
  14. I’m guessing you may have never read Moses 5? In this chapter Jesus Christ, Adam and Eve all testify that it was indeed a good thing. 9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will. 10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God. 11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was GLAD, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
  15. Although these points are somewhat shrouded in mystery, one can logically conclude that since our Heavenly Father was once a man on another planet, just as his Son Jesus Christ was a man on this planet, that the infinite and eternal atonement (an everlasting sacrificial principle of light and life that exists outside of the bounds of time) made it possible for him to become perfect, just as the man Jesus Christ became perfect through the power of his Father and thus became the author and finisher of our salvation on this earth (we don’t think it’s strange or odd that God would live on a planet since, based on our own knowledge and experience, this appears to be exactly how he goes about doing his work. As far as the Father himself experiencing the agony of the atoning sacrifice himself is concerned? Since God the Father perfectly understands all things — and this most especially includes the suffering required to make an atoning sacrifice — his omniscience in all things means that, in some way or manner, he perfectly comprehends, to the point of it being experiential, the suffering endured when making an atoning sacrifice. So yes, Christ was willing to make the atoning sacrifice because the Father, who knows all things, had experienced such suffering before he did (in the religion of the Latter-Day Saints, we believe God gets down in the ‘trenches’ with us).
  16. If you are a Protestant, then you must believe there was a falling away of the church from the correct path established by Christ and the Apostles because that’s what Protestantism is all about — new nonCatholic churches were established by men who were protesting (thence the term PROTESTant) the fact that the Catholic Church had strayed from the truth and purity of the early Apostolic Church. But if it turns out that you are a believing, practicing, Catholic, I’ll respond to you again when you let me know that you are.
  17. Now I see why you went off track. You’ve made the same doctrinal error I’ve seen others make by misunderstanding what the terms telestial and terrestrial really mean. The mistake is made when an assumption is made that these terms have uniform and consistent meanings across the board when they actually don’t. For example, because the world in which we now live is at times referred to as a “telestial world” some make the mistaken assumption that the post-resurrection telestial kingdom of glory will be much like it is now on this fallen planet, but this is incorrect. This present telestial world is characterized by sin, all having fallen mortal natures, physical death, and it’s presently a habitation of devils On the other hand, the post-resurrection telestial kingdom of glory will be characterized by obedience to God’s post-resurrection telestial law of righteousness, the fallen mortal nature will be replaced by a state of relative righteousness that will enable its inhabitants to enjoy the ministry of the Holy Spirit and angelic messengers, and physical death will be overcome with a glorious resurrection. In addition, the inhabitants of the telestial kingdom of glory will be redeemed from the devil and his angels, with the hosts of Satan being cast into outer darkness at the time of the final judgement So as you can see, just because our present dwelling place is called a telestial world doesn’t mean it has very much in common with the post-resurrection telestial kingdom of glory, which we are told is a realm that’s so sublime that it’s glory is beyond present human comprehension. The same holds true for the term terrestrial. For instance, just because the realm in which Adam and Eve lived prior to the fall is called a terrestrial world doesn’t mean it had much in common with what will be the post-resurrection terrestrial kingdom of glory. Consider that the pre-fall terrestrial world was characterized by an ignorance of the difference between good and evil, the result being that it could only provide an bland existence devoid meaning and joy. Meanwhile the terrestrial kingdom of post-resurrection glory will be inhabited by people who did come to know the effects of sin through their own experience wrestling with the fallen nature, and they will eventually be deemed worthy of enjoying the immediate presence of the Lord Jesus Christ who will minister great joy to their enlightened and redeem souls. And also consider that the millennial terrestrial world will be a place where Satan and his hosts will be loosed and where the final great battle between the forces of good and evil — the battle of Gog and Magog — will be fought. So even Christ’s 1000 year millennial reign on earth has virtually nothing in common with the dull and joyless world that existed before the fall. The ability to discern nuance and subtlety is needed in order to correctly understand the word of God.
  18. But if Adam and Eve did (theoretically speaking) have children in the garden before the fall, the one and only test those children would face is whether or not to partake of the fruit of the tree on knowledge, which would then put them in the exact same position of their parents were in. Do you really think living forever in childlike innocence in the garden, with one lone moral test to make, (whether or not to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge) is anything at all like the all encompassing mortal probation we’re now experiencing? You haven’t thought this through. 22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden (which means any children also would have also forever remained in the garden). And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end. 23 ……… wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin (which obviously means having one lone moral test — whether or not to partake of the fruit of knowledge — does not constitute any kind of a test to determine whether or not one is worthy to obtain salvation. Why? Because as they chose to not partake of the fruit of knowledge they, just like their parents, would have remained in a state of innocence without joy. Guite frankly, I’m astonished at how poorly thought out this concept of yours really is. Be honest, do you really think that living in a state of innocence without joy forever, with one lone moral choice to make, somehow constitutes anything like our present extremely challenging mortal probation? The whole concept is untenable and ridiculous. By the way, the people of the millennium get to that blessed state of existence by overcoming their fallen sinful natures through their faith in the atoning Saviour, Jesus Christ, not by remaining in a joyless state of innocence.
  19. I don’t think you’ll get much reaction to this alarming story here because it appears most of the participants on this board are only worried about right wing violence (see all the activity on the recent thread concerning last week’s incident at the Coeur d’Alene, Idaho gay pride event and you’ll see what I mean). Meanwhile, Antifa, BLM and their allied violent crazies can murder 25 people, seriously injure hundreds of others, and cause 2 billion dollars in malicious property damage and nary a peep will be heard. Why? Because many feel 20’20’s continual orgy of violence is excusable because the mobs of marauders are deemed to be oppressed people. At the same time, those who were inwardly sickened by 2020’s nightly conflagrations are hesitant to voice condemnation because they’re fearful they’ll be condemned as racists by the politically correct. P.S. All the above being said, if there are reactions on this thread they will likely be in negative response to this common sense post of mine.
  20. In any case, how could it be a “forced Fall” when the very reason why God introduced the tree of life, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and Satan’s tempting presence into the garden is because “it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves?” (Doctrine and Covenants 29) A question: Every couple sealed for time and eternity in the temple is given the solemn commandment to “multiply and replenish the earth,” yet there have likely been thousands of couples who were placed under that commandment who, for whatever medial reason, turned out to be infertile and therefore unable to have their own biological children. In these instances, how is God going to enable such couples to obey and fulfill that all important commandment when, in spite of their best and most faithful efforts, they eventually die without the commandment being fulfilled?
  21. Please explain again how bringing forth children into a never-ending existence of innocence in which there is no joy a “better way?” 23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. (2 Nephi 2) If Adam and Eve had brought forth children without first falling , how would the joyless “better way” of endless innocence provide a way for the children to comprehend and overcome evil? 39 AND IT MUST NEEDS BE that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet— (Doctrine and Covenants 29)
  22. Doctrine and Covenants 29 answers your question simply yet powerfully. 36 And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency; 37 And they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels; 38 And, behold, there is a place prepared for them from the beginning, which place is hell. 39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet— 40 Wherefore, it came to pass that the devil tempted Adam, and he partook of the forbidden fruit and transgressed the commandment, wherein he became subject to the will of the devil, because he yielded unto temptation. 41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed. 42 But, behold, I say unto you that I, the Lord God, gave unto Adam and unto his seed, that they should not die as to the temporal death, until I, the Lord God, should send forth angels to declare unto them repentance and redemption, through faith on the name of mine Only Begotten Son. (Doctrine and Covenants 29) So the answer is that without Satan’s negative spiritual influence in the garden of Eden there would have been no agency, and without agency there is no salvation and no possibility of spiritual growth.
  23. You completely missed my point. The fact is that Moses 2 makes it perfectly clear the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth was given to ALL of God’s spirit children while they were yet unembodied spirits living in heaven, spirits without bodies with no possible way to fulfill the commandment while they continued to remain without bodies in that sate of existence. This means that God can indeed give a commandment to the children of men that cannot be obeyed until those thus commanded are brought into a new state of existence where keeping the commandment is made possible, in this case it’s in mortality. Your whole premise sinks or swims on whether or not God can give a commandment to people who will not able to obey that commandment until they are brought into a new and functionally different state of existence. The fact that God gave ALL his preexistent spirit children the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth, while they were spirits in heaven who were absolutely incapable of obeying the commandment, blows your whole premise out of the water. What I’m showing here is that God does give commandments to people who cannot fulfill those commands until they enter a new state of existence where obedience to the commandment is made possible. You say that God cannot give a commandment to the children of men unless their is a way to keep that commandment in the state of existence in which the commandment was first given, but I’ve just devastatingly demonstrated that that simply isn’t true. But my fear is that you are so in love with your own incorrect idea that you won’t even bother to seriously test the validity of what I’m saying.
  24. Another important fact that completely undermines your mistaken notion that God doesn’t give a commandments unto the children of men unless he prepares a way for them to be able to be obedient to that commandment while in the realm of existence in which the commandment is given is to look at the context of God’s commandment for men and women to multiply found in Moses 2. Let’s take a look at it: 27 And I, God, created man in mine own image, in the image of mine Only Begotten created I him; male and female created I them. 28 And I, God, blessed them, and said unto them: Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Moses 2) Here’s what you missed: If you read the following chapter of Moses (Moses 3), it’s unmistakably clear that the commandment to multiply was given to the ALL the children of God at the time when they were yet spirits in the preexistence. So the all important question that follows is why in the world would God give his preexistent spirit children the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth when there was no way for them to obey that commandment because at that time they were unembodied spirits living with God in heaven. If you find all of this hard to accept because it destroys the premise of your argument, read the following: 4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations (plural) of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air; 6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word. (Moses 3) Here’s my question to you: Why did God command his spirit children to multiply and replenish the earth while they were yet unembodied spirits living in heaven, and therefore utterly incapable of keeping the commandment?
  25. For some clarity, it turns out that only one of the 31 right wing extremists who were arrested at the Couer d’Alene, Idaho gay pride event were from Idaho, all the others are from out of state. In addition, the following article indicates that the arrested Patriot Front group is pagan in philosophy, with an anti-Christian bent. The article also discloses just how “family friendly” the Couer d’Alene gay pride event actually was. One thing is for sure, based on the article it most assuredly was NOT “family friendly. ://www.idahotribune.org/news/not-opinion-neo-nazis-white-lives-matter-patriot-front-satanists-antifa-drag-queens-turn-coeur-dalene-into-anti-christian-freakshow
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