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Everything posted by teddyaware

  1. Based on years of experience on this board, I can assure you that you’re wasting time and setting yourself up for endless frustration and heartache. The reason? There are progressives on this board who would rather see the traditional nuclear family go down in flames worldwide, and thereafter be compelled to live lives of abject misery forever rather than ever have to admit there’s anything divinely inspired and praise worthy in the traditional patriarchal order model of marriage and family life taught in the New Testament. Trying to debate with people who believe the scriptures are expendable and the patriarchal order of the priesthood is unessential is a fool’s errand. Apparently, according to this newfangled way of thinking, the Apostle Paul is viewed as pathetic spiritual Luddite who failed to anticipate that the patriarchal order he upheld would eventually be overthrown. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. (Ephesians 6)
  2. Only someone who is being either willfully ignorant or unfair could possibly misconstrue Elder Peterson’s comments as being “hate speech.” In case you weren’t around when it was happening (I was), there was a priesthood ban in place, back in the days when Elder Peterson was an apostle, that the vast majority of members, including the General Authorities, believed to be divinely mandated. By calling attention to the precedent setting examples of priesthood banning and lineage cursing found in scriptures, Elder Peterson was simply offering some well reasoned possible justifications for why the ban existed. Like it or not, back in those days believing members of the church had to deal with the ban as an ongoing reality of life, but rather than leave everyone in the dark, without any attempt at explanation, Elder Peterson was at least trying to offer some logical, scripture based justifications for the ban that made perfect sense under the current circumstances. The focus of your displeasure shouldn’t be with elder Peterson but with the scriptures that provided him with so many examples of God’s past exclusivity that are even now being condemned by the politically correct as examples of “hate speech.” Elder Peterson is gone and the priesthood ban has been rescinded, but those pesky scriptures Elder Peterson cited as possible explanations for the priesthood ban still exist. You are highlighting the symptom rather than the source, the actual source of your discomfiture being those verses of scripture that testify God once focused a great deal on race.
  3. The label ‘white nationalist’ has become a highly unfair catchall because in today’s environment the sincere belief that the Founding Fathers were inspired of God when they wrote and adopted the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States will get an individual instantly labeled as a virulent white nationalist by the woke mob . Do you doubt that if a humble, decent Latter-Day Saint quoted the following words of the Lord Jesus Christ himself, at virtually any college campus in America today, that he wouldn’t immediately be branded as a dangerous “white nationalist” who deserves nothing less than cancelation and banishment? 80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood. (Doctrine and Covenants 101) and… 5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me. 6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; 7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil. (Doctrine and Covenants 98) If it hasn’t happened already, I won’t be even slightly surprised if some day the woke members of the Church will demand that the above verses of holy writ be expunged from the scriptures so as not to offend those who assert that the Founding Fathers were the original proponents of white nationalism, even if it is the Lord who uttered those words. And mark my words, the day is also going to come when the preaching of the restored gospel will be banned as ‘hate speech.’ In your heart, you know I’m right.
  4. I believe it’s highly likely that she’s another brazen liar like Rachel Richardson. But the strategy that lies behind the lie is the desire to publicize anew the controversial statements on race made by early LDS church leaders. By bringing to light those 19th century statements, her lie becomes much more plausible and believable. After all, all the gullible crowd needs to know is that past prophets and apostles did say those things and the lie becomes tantamount to being true..
  5. Christ wrought his atoning sacrifice of infinite and eternal suffering in order to provide God’s children with the opportunity to make the choice to put off the fallen nature and obtain eternal life. When we make choices that lead us away from the covenant path and the precious gift of eternal life, we do so as an act in defiance against the actual purpose of agency. Christ didn’t descend in suffering below all things in order to give us the right to commit sin; rather he suffered for sin to enable his disciples to proactively conquer sin. Choosing wickedness is an act of rebellion against the very purpose of agency, not an affirmation of agency. Each time a sin is committed, either Christ or the sinners themselves will have to pay a price by suffering for that sin. Just because we have the freedom to choose doesn’t mean there will be no consequences when we choose to break the law. In other words, freedom isn’t free.
  6. Am I the only one here who thinks you’ve got your tongue firmly planted in your cheek?
  7. Lehi’s family was utterly torn apart when some of his children rejected Jesus Christ and his gospel. What follows are Nephi’s thoughts on the matter at the time when the family split became irrevocable. His is a message of sadness mingled with great faith and hope. What else should it be? 15 And upon athese I bwrite the things of my soul, and many of the scriptures which are engraven upon the plates of brass. For my soul cdelighteth in the scriptures, and my heart dpondereth them, and writeth them for the elearning and the profit of my children. 16 Behold, my asoul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my bheart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard. 17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great agoodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O bwretched man that I am! Yea, my heart csorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities. 18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily abeset me. 19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have atrusted. 20 My God hath been my asupport; he hath led me through mine bafflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep. 21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming my flesh. 22 He hath confounded mine aenemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me. 23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me aknowledge by bvisions in the night-time. 24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty aprayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me. 25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been acarried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them. 26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath avisited men in so much bmercy, cwhy should my dheart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions? 27 And why should I ayield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to btemptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my cpeace and afflict my soul? Why am I dangry because of mine enemy? 28 Awake, my soul! No longer adroop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the benemy of my soul. 29 Do not aanger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions. 30 Rejoice, O my aheart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the brock of my salvation. 31 O Lord, wilt thou aredeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of bsin? 32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my aheart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may bwalk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road! 33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy arighteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine benemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy. 34 O Lord, I have atrusted in thee, and I will btrust in thee forever. I will not put my ctrust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his dtrust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm. 35 Yea, I know that God will give aliberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I bask cnot amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the drock of my erighteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen?
  8. Since God, in the person Jesus Christ, is fully human — a man who had a fully human life experience that included having very human emotions and being tempted and tested in every way all other accountable human beings are tempted and tested — why should we think he is unlike us and that we will never be as he is? 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM, for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3) If he is so unlike us, how is it possible that he is willing to call his true earthly followers the sons of God? He even goes so far as to say that when he appears in his might and glory “we shall be like him.” Does unduly stressing our dissimilarities with him serve as a lame excuse for arguing we can never be as holy as he is? 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (1 Peter 1)
  9. I’ve decided that from now I’m rarely going to post on this board because I’ve come to the determination that doing so is an exercise in frustration and too often a unproductive waste of time. But I’m making one of the rare exceptions on this thread because its premise is so absurd that I find it very difficult to stop myself from responding. Did you ever stop to think that it might be a good idea to check first with the scriptures to see if this theory squares with the word of God before starting this thread? 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say,whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Colossians 1) and… 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. (John 19)
  10. Of course you must know where all this is heading? Satan is working behind the scenes with mailable earthy agents to eventually set up a regime in which it will be impossible for the messengers of God to call a desperately wicked world to repentance without breaking all kinds of oppressive laws designed to shut the mouths of the righteous. The adversary’s ultimate objective is to silence the voice of warning from Lord’s prophets and missionaries for engaging in so-called “hate speech” if they dare to teach the gospel of repentance and contrition that God has always commanded his servants to preach. And based on what I’m seeing on this thread, there will likely be many members who will soon pressure the church to teach a false gospel that asserts men can be saved in their sins, rather than saved from their sins through faith in the atoning Savior, genuine contrition and heartfelt repentance. And if there are any here who think they can dismiss me as a crazy alarmist, you will soon enough see I’m right. But none of this should come as a surprise for the informed faithful because the scriptures abundantly warn that the day of God’s vengeance upon the wicked is inevitable. It’s for very good and fully justifiable reasons that the prophets repeatedly warn that the Lord is going to destroy the rebellious and cleanse the earth by fire at his Second Coming. The world is very obviously ripening in iniquity for those who can are able to discern the crystal clear signs of the times. And if there are any here who can’t see it, there’s not much else left to say.
  11. Paul’s identification of Melchizedek as an eternal king, in the likeness of the infinite and eternal Son of God, is to hold him up as a prototype of all valiant Melchizedek Priesthood holders rather than as someone whose heavenly kingship is singular and unique among the sons of men. As evidence of this, I would draw your attention to the Book of Revelation where in at least five places John depicts the faithful disciples of Christ as being heavenly Kings and Priests. As an example, I cite the following. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.(Revelation 1) In light of the above, it’s obvious that Christ and Melchizedek aren’t the only kings and priests who will be crowned and enthroned in heaven from among the sons of men. But this isn’t to suggest that you are saying otherwise.
  12. It’s important to note that the etymology of the word ‘continue’ speaks of becoming one with someone or something. In the above verse, I believe the prophet is using the word ‘continue’ in this original sense of the word, conveying the idea of a timeless and never ending patriarchal and matriarchal procession of the Gods. 1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. (Hebrews 7)
  13. I should have been more clear. What I should have said is that the exalted are able to speak of themselves as being the God who is from everlasting to everlasting because the fulness of the uncreated Spirit of Truth that now animates and empowers them had no beginning and will have no end. In other words the divine mind of God had no beginning and will have no end, and those who are possessed of its fulness are entitled to speak in the first person as the eternal God who is without beginning of days and end of years. The Melchizedek Priesthood is also without beginning of days and end of years, and those who possess the Melchizedek Priesthood in fulness can also say that their power and authority are without beginning.
  14. Well you got a lot of upvotes for jumping to conclusions and asserting something that is factually incorrect The abortion clinic was closed at the time and Isabel Vaughan Spruce knew it was closed. https://aleteia.org/2022/12/24/uk-woman-arrested-for-silent-prayer-outside-english-abortion-clinic/
  15. I find it deeply shocking that there are more and more members who are rallying in support of the pro-abortion faction of the Church who have come out in open rebellion against the Lord. Wheat and tares anyone? 24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. 25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; 26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord. (D$C 112)
  16. It appears you believe that in spite of his omnipotence and omniscience God is incapable of sharing the fullness of his power and glory with his own special creation whom he made in his own divine image, likeness and glory? And it seems you believe this even though he has solemnly promised those who overcome the world that they will become joint heirs with Christ and inherit all things that he himself possesses as the Son of God, including the right to rule and reign as kings and priests throughout eternity? 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans And… 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Revelation 3) And… 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I an Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (Revelation 21)
  17. You missed my point. Because the exalted are endowed with an eternal fulness of the uncreated Spirit of Truth, the exact same uncreated Spirit of divine intelligence and light with which Christ is endowed, the exalted are able, in the first person, to speak as beings who had no beginning and will have no end because the Spirit of divine intelligence with which they are perfectly one had no beginning and will have no end. Doctrine and Covenants 93 explains this process of theosis beautifully. 16 And I, John, bear record that he (Christ) received a fulness of the glory of the Father; 17 And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him. 18 And it shall come to pass, that if you are faithful you shall receive the fulness of the record of John. 19 I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness. 20 For if you keep my commandments, you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace. 21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn; 22 And all those who are begotten through me are partakers of the glory of the same, and are the church of the Firstborn. 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth; 24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come; 25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning. 26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth; 27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments. 28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things. 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. (Doctrine and Covenants 93)
  18. How is it possible for an abjectly evil son of perdition to atone for his own sins when the scriptures amply testify that the only being who can make an atonement for sin is the perfectly holy, infinite and eternal Son of God? And since the scriptures further testify that the sons of perdition suffer in that state of existence forever, it appears certain that no amount of suffering on their part is able to satisfy the demands of divine justice. Since their suffering goes on forever, wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that the sons of perdition suffer for their sins but they are never able to atone for their own sins? And if it were possible for a son of perdition to atone for his own sins, wouldn’t that mean, in contradiction to scripture, that men can indeed be saved by their own works?
  19. The sons of perdition are those who remain in a state of total rebellion against God and Christ at the time of their resurrection. These are they who will remain “filthy still” (stained with sin) at the time of the final judgement because they utterly refuse to accept Christ as Savior, humble themselves before God and repent of their sins. All but the sons of perdition will eventually accept Christ as Lord and Savior and repent of their sins, after suffering in hell until they are able to attain to a true state of contrition. The God of the Latter-Day Saints is truly merciful and will not abandon any of his sons and daughters to hell before doing absolutely everything in his power to help them come to see the error of their ways, and their inescapable need to accept Christ as Savior and repent before they can ever expect to find peace of mind and happiness.
  20. Doctrine and Covenants 76 and 138 make it clear that the suffering endured in hell is indeed endless, and most certainly will not come to an end unless those suffering God’s endless punishment in hell exercise authentic faith in Christ’s redemptive sacrifice and humbly repent of their sins, thereby receiving divine pardon. For the sons of perdition, hell truly is endless punishment, and the reason why it is endless for them is because they refuse to bow the knee to Christ and sincerely repent of their sins. No wicked man or woman suffering in hell for their sins will ever be able to suffer long enough and hard enough to be able to atone for their own sins, only the infinite and eternal sacrifice of Jesus Christ can do that. The purpose of suffering in hell isn’t to expiate sin but for sinners to suffer with enough intensity to finally come to the realization that the only way out of the endless punishment of hell is to come unto him whose name is Endless and receive a remission of their sins through his redemptive infinite and eternal sacrifice vicarious sacrifice for sin. 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath o Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; (meaning most of those who have been thrust down to hell will eventually cease to be in a state of rebellion against God and Christ), 107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the winepress alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God (meaning he causes those thrust down to hell to suffer a punishment that will remain endless until their rebellious, unrepentant souls are subdued by suffering — not atoning — for their own sins). 108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; 110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever (I.e. confess unto God the Father that Jesus is indeed the Christ); 111 For they shall be judged according to their works (primarily the work of repentance), and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared (the repentant and forgiven inheritors of the telestial kingdom will enter into one of God’s three heavenly kingdoms of glory because they finally come unto Christ in faith, sincerely repent of their sins, and ultimately receive forgiveness at his hand. But because the only way these formerly rebellious souls could eventually be persuade to come unto Christ and seek divine pardon is by first being thrust down hell, they are relegated to a lower kingdom of heavenly light and glory); And lest anyone think being subjected to this painful redemptive process I’d unfair, it needs to be understood that we all covenanted and agreed to abide by these terms before coming to this fallen earth.
  21. The whole point of Doctrine and Covenants 76 is to reveal to the world a great mystery concerning the true nature of God and the actual extent of his redeeming love, which is, as it turns out, an infinite and eternal love that is able save all those who will willingly bow the knee to the God Father at the time of the final judgement and honestly and contritely confess unto him that Jesus is The Christ. But because it’s inevitable that there are going to be varying degrees of faithfulness, heed, diligence and valiance to the cause of Christ that will be found among all those who are saved, the Father has prepared many mansions in heaven to accommodate the varying degrees of commitment and spiritual capacity that will be found among the saved. The only ones who will not be saved in one of God’s many mansions of post-resurrection glory are the sons of perdition who will ultimately refuse to bow the knee and confess that Jesus is the Christ. The verses of scripture you cite can only be properly understood in light of the entirety of Doctrine and Covenants 76. For example: 36 These are they (the sons of perdition) who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— 37 And the only ones on whom the second death (the total spiritual death of the unredeemed) shall have any power; 38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed (by Christ) in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath. 39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made. 40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings (I.e. that all but the sons of perdition will be saved through the atoning power of Jesus Christ), which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us— 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the sins of the world, and to bear the sins of the world (that is, bear the sins of all except for the sons of perdition), and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; 43 Who glorified the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. 44 Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment. (Doctrine and Covenants 76)
  22. Any informed Catholic or Protestant will tell you that their churches teach the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct personages. They will go even further by assuring you that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are not three different manifestations of one divine personage (the heresy of modalism). So wherein do we Latter-Day Saints actually differ from the Catholics and Protestants with regard to nature the Godhead? They teach that the three separate and distinct personage of the Godhead are all of one divine substance, but said mysterious unifying substance is left undefined. Meanwhile the the Latter-Day Saints’ Lectures on Faith asserts that each of the three members of the Godhead are filled to eternal fulness with an uncreated spiritual substance called the Spirit of Truth or Light of Truth. So when you get right down to it, I believe there are basically three ways that we Latter-Day Saints differ from the Catholics and Protestants on the nature of the Godhead. 1) Unlike the Catholics and Protestants, we are able to define the spiritual substance that fills and unifies each member of the Godhead. (Lest any misunderstand, the primary reason why the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are of one purpose and of one mind is because all three are filled with an infinite and eternal outpouring of the Spirit of Truth. Just as the only way the Church can achieve unity is through the unity of the Spirit, so also the only way the Godhead is able to achieve its perfect unity is through the unity of the Spirit. 2) Unlike the Catholics and Protestants, we believe all three members of the Godhead are material beings. 3) Unlike the Catholics and Protestants, we’ve believe God the Father has a glorified material body of flesh and bones.
  23. The missing factor in this discussion that’s causing confusion is that although the scriptures are undeniably replete with examples of individuals who were motivated by the fear of God’s punishment to come unto Christ and repent, the fact of the matter is that fear motivated repentance usually lies at the initial portion of the strait and narrow path that leads to exaltation; but as one progresses further along the path that leads to perfection, more refined and exalted motivations for obedience largely supplant the initial motivation to repent that stemmed from the fear of divine retribution. It’s baffling to me why some can’t seem to understand that both of these motivations have legitimate and necessary rolls to play in the process that leads to full conversion and exaltation.
  24. It will be interesting to see if the moderators boot you off this thread for being political. A couple months ago I got booted off another thread for unintentionally doing far less.
  25. I’m guessing you believe the scriptural accounts of the Lord’s intentional burning of Sodom and Gomorrah are also figurative? And do you also believe the following words from the Lord are not to be taken literally when he testifies that by a direct act of his own will he burned (and otherwise destroyed) the following Nephite cities? 1 And it came to pass that there was a avoice heard among all the inhabitants of the earth, upon all the face of this land, crying: 2 Wo, wo, wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall arepent; for the devil blaugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain of the fair sons and daughters of my people; and it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen! 3 Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I aburned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof. 4 And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be asunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned. 5 And behold, that great city aMoronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them. 6 And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth; 7 Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of aJerusalem and the inhabitants thereof; and bwaters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the cbloodof the prophets and the saints shall dnot come up any more unto me against them. 8 And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made ahills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I bburied up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them. 9 And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their awickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their bsecret murders and combinations; for it was they that did cdestroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to ddestroythem from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them. (3 Nephi 9)
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