Overcoming Pornography Addition

[RegularMormon]

At church today, Stake leaders visited each unit and taught about the dangers of pornography during the 3rd hour with a combined audience of ages 12 and up members. It was interesting to note they mentioned the approach being taken now isn't on 'prevention' but more 'treatment' and is being treated with the assumption 'everyone' will be exposed to pornography in one form or another at a time in their life. 

The Stake visitor made it an open forum and you could tell he was hoping for some honest & frank dialog.  Of course no one shared anything personal other than the standard teachings of why it’s bad and why we need to avoid it.

 

After the meeting I thought about how we could better teach what he referred to as a "pandemic" more effective and deliver more of an impact?  And I hope this doesn't come across as an attack on church leaders because that's not what my intent is; but I believe we're not going to see any huge change from those of us struggling with this addiction until we see some church leaders leading by example who have experienced and overcame this addiction and was able to return back to full activity in the church.  I'm referring to high level church leaders such as a Bishop, Stake President, Church Authority, etc... If what they said is true (and I believe it is) that 'everyone' will have been exposed to pornography in this life, than certainly they fit in the category of 'everyone' have personal experience and it would be nice to hear how they handled it rather than sharing a story about a person no one can relate to.  I’m not suggesting there’s a huge problem in our church leadership with this but more so expressing how much of a difference it would make if a Stake President shared in a talk or lesson, “sure I ran across some porn accidentally the other day while doing some research on the internet and this is what I did….”

 

It was shared that members are shameful and fearful of judgment.  When they see a Bishop or Stake President share an experience of a struggle they had on not paying tithing at a time of their life and was able to overcome and be where they are now it gives others hope they too can rise above this.  I'm not sure; however I've ever heard or seen a high level church leader share ‘publicly’ where they had overcome such an addition with pornography or even an experience encountering it? It think it would make the conversation more comfortable and lessen the fear of being judged so harshly when they and everyone knows that a Stake President went through this very same thing.   Of course I'm in the Midwest so maybe there is more of this going on in Utah and such but just a thought that came to mind and wanted to get other opinions?

 

Would that be damaging to the church with a high profile leader sharing such struggles like this or would it be helpful?  I personally think it would be helpful to the membership.  However I can see how damaging it would be to the image of the church as the media would have a field day with such accounts being shared.  Thoughts?

[The Nehor]

One of the counselor's in a Bishopric in a ward in my stake overcame severe addiction problems though not specifically pornography and now gives firesides on Addiction Recovery and the program the Church has. He attends as well.

[Kenngo1969]

At the risk of derailing (I will delete this gladly, if you feel it takes the thread in a direction you do not wish it to go) but, do we, sometimes, teach the scriptures the same way, as well?  I mean, sure, there are some "high-profile" examples of people in the scriptures who made very drastic turnarounds in short order: Paul and Alma the Younger come immediately to mind.  With respect to others, though, do we tend to put them on a pedestal, and say, about, e.g., Nephi, "Sure, he wrote about struggling, but he wasn't referring to the kind of struggles you and I face.  His only problem was that he was so good, yet he had to put up with being in this fallen world and hadn't been translated yet!"

 

I'm reminded of the scripture that says, "There hath no temptation taken you except that which is common to man."  For whatever vanishingly-small sum it may be worth, I reflected on this question some time ago on my blog: https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/encouragement-from-those-in-the-scriptures/.  I bear witness from personal experience that Isaiah didn't write, "Though your sins be as scarlet, perhaps, one day, we can turn them sort of a faint pinkish hue."  He wrote, "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow."

 

My $0.02, actual value (as usual!) much less.

[Duncan]

Porn, smoking, drugs, food, take your pick of addictions are just symptoms of something else. Some people do these things to fill some void or to cover up previous pain. So stopping any addiction doesn't take away what drives the addiction. I just don't buy the reasoning about porn addiction. All these chemicals get released when you view it and your body reacts in certain ways, well doesn't your brain release the same chemicals when you see real life nudidity? your mind can tell the difference between what's real and what is in a magazine or screen or whatever, but your brain and body can't. Is sex addictive? aren't the same chemicals released when you engage in intercourse as is when you see porn?

[Calm]

As I understand it, part of the problem is the instant gratification without having to work at it plus the idealization….physical intimacy between a couple will never be polished, generally requires preparation, will involve effort, starts and stops, etc. that don't provide the same sort of easy 'high' of porn that leads to addiction.  There is also a variety available with porn that isn't available in real life.

Edited March 30, 2015 by calmoriah

[Kenngo1969]

... doesn't your brain release the same chemicals when you see real life nudidity [sic] ? ...

Radar O'Reilly, is that you?  (Sorry; couldn't resist!)

[Mormonmaniac]

At church today, Stake leaders visited each unit and taught about the dangers of pornography during the 3rd hour with a combined audience of ages 12 and up members. It was interesting to note they mentioned the approach being taken now isn't on 'prevention' but more 'treatment' and is being treated with the assumption 'everyone' will be exposed to pornography in one form or another at a time in their life. 

The Stake visitor made it an open forum and you could tell he was hoping for some honest & frank dialog.  Of course no one shared anything personal other than the standard teachings of why it’s bad and why we need to avoid it.

 

After the meeting I thought about how we could better teach what he referred to as a "pandemic" more effective and deliver more of an impact?  And I hope this doesn't come across as an attack on church leaders because that's not what my intent is; but I believe we're not going to see any huge change from those of us struggling with this addiction until we see some church leaders leading by example who have experienced and overcame this addiction and was able to return back to full activity in the church.  I'm referring to high level church leaders such as a Bishop, Stake President, Church Authority, etc... If what they said is true (and I believe it is) that 'everyone' will have been exposed to pornography in this life, than certainly they fit in the category of 'everyone' have personal experience and it would be nice to hear how they handled it rather than sharing a story about a person no one can relate to.  I’m not suggesting there’s a huge problem in our church leadership with this but more so expressing how much of a difference it would make if a Stake President shared in a talk or lesson, “sure I ran across some porn accidentally the other day while doing some research on the internet and this is what I did….”

 

It was shared that members are shameful and fearful of judgment.  When they see a Bishop or Stake President share an experience of a struggle they had on not paying tithing at a time of their life and was able to overcome and be where they are now it gives others hope they too can rise above this.  I'm not sure; however I've ever heard or seen a high level church leader share ‘publicly’ where they had overcome such an addition with pornography or even an experience encountering it? It think it would make the conversation more comfortable and lessen the fear of being judged so harshly when they and everyone knows that a Stake President went through this very same thing.   Of course I'm in the Midwest so maybe there is more of this going on in Utah and such but just a thought that came to mind and wanted to get other opinions?

 

Would that be damaging to the church with a high profile leader sharing such struggles like this or would it be helpful?  I personally think it would be helpful to the membership.  However I can see how damaging it would be to the image of the church as the media would have a field day with such accounts being shared.  Thoughts?

I agree with your sentiment. Years ago we had a stakewide fireside about pornography and sexual relations before marriage presented to the youth. It was akward to say the least and not effective in my opinion. Not to say the stake didn't try, they put on a well researched and well choreographed program with great speakers. But, they make it out as if it si a problem only no one knows who it is it is effecting and that nobody in authority struggles with it and that its only a kid problem in the church. I will be honest, I know it effects everyone including myself and pretty much every male member I know in either a small or large degree. I know that from time to time its something I struggle with and also close members of my family who also are in the church. I do not honestly think we are honest with our peers with our troubles with pornography viewing and addiction. Because of that dishonesty it makes it hard to honestly and openly discuss it. I know that pornograpy is one of my personal weaknesses and I am working on making it a strength to not view it. I know from my own personal experience that as long as you hide it from others and choose not t be honest with others it can become a worse and worse problem. I honestly believe pornography addiction is a very very bad problem within church membership by both sexes and it effects everyone from youth all the way up into leadership at ward and stake levels and perhaps higher than that. Its sadly an epidemic that needs a different approach where we can be more honest and more forgiving of ourselves and others to overcome this huge problem.

[BlueDreams]

After the meeting I thought about how we could better teach what he referred to as a "pandemic" more effective and deliver more of an impact?  And I hope this doesn't come across as an attack on church leaders because that's not what my intent is; but I believe we're not going to see any huge change from those of us struggling with this addiction until we see some church leaders leading by example who have experienced and overcame this addiction and was able to return back to full activity in the church.  I'm referring to high level church leaders such as a Bishop, Stake President, Church Authority, etc... If what they said is true (and I believe it is) that 'everyone' will have been exposed to pornography in this life, than certainly they fit in the category of 'everyone' have personal experience and it would be nice to hear how they handled it rather than sharing a story about a person no one can relate to.  I’m not suggesting there’s a huge problem in our church leadership with this but more so expressing how much of a difference it would make if a Stake President shared in a talk or lesson, “sure I ran across some porn accidentally the other day while doing some research on the internet and this is what I did….”

----

Would that be damaging to the church with a high profile leader sharing such struggles like this or would it be helpful?  I personally think it would be helpful to the membership.  However I can see how damaging it would be to the image of the church as the media would have a field day with such accounts being shared.  Thoughts?

 

I only have 3 thoughts

 

It would be good if anyone would open up about this. But I can understand why they wouldn't.....it's easier to give the correct answers than to really delve into personal struggles surround sexual activities....particularly in the group.

 

I'm glad that they're noting that just about everybody will have viewed porn at least once in their life.

 

My only big issue, is that I wish some of the disease language would go. And just because people have viewed porn...or even viewed porn fairly regularly is no where near the same as having a full-blown addiction. Porn can have a nasty effect at any level, particularly if introduced at a younger pubescent/pre-adolecsent age. But frankly, where many may have viewed porn, most don't actually have an addiction. Some do, and it's devastating. But most don't. Most may be just curious and others may have developed a bad habit. I think it can just be helpful for a number of people to realize, what exactly they're fighting. And it's easier to fight a mouse than it is a dragon.....but the way we talk about porn has little to no gradation, sounds similar to if we were fight bubonic plague, and can inadvertently isolate people struggling with their habits. The language that's used can further shame people who's use isn't to the point of addiction. This, ironically, makes it harder to kick, because they've learned an easy way to self-sooth is porn.  

 

 

Those are my only thoughts currently,

 

With luv,

BD

[Mormonmaniac]

regularly viewing porn is addiction no matter the frequency. some just have worse addictions or more progressed addictions than others.

[why me]

 

Would that be damaging to the church with a high profile leader sharing such struggles like this or would it be helpful?  I personally think it would be helpful to the membership.  However I can see how damaging it would be to the image of the church as the media would have a field day with such accounts being shared.  Thoughts?

I think that it is difficult because it deals with sex. Not many people wish to be vocal about porn but they may be more open to discuss a sex addiction that they had as a non-member. Also, maybe a porn addiction as a non member would be easier to share but then again, most women would frown upon such a man who had a porn addiction. That being sad, many women are addicted to porn too. But they may be more hestitant to share their porn addiction because sex brings up many connotations and taboos. This would also go for porn addicted men.

 

A question that needs to be asked is: why are humans programmed to discover pleasure in watching other humans have sex? I don't think that this is a problem in the animal kingdom but I could be wrong and so, what makes humans so different? I think that it has something to do with the brain and human sexuality. We are programmed differently than other species life.

[why me]

regularly viewing porn is addiction no matter the frequency. some just have worse addictions or more progressed addictions than others.

This could be true. However, porn addiction is a matter of mind over matter. The sexual images are difficult to get rid of. It makes no difference if viewed once a week or 7 times a week. The images may still be in the mind, enticing the person to go back and watch it for more imaging, regardless if the person only views it once a week.

[janderich]

My only big issue, is that I wish some of the disease language would go. And just because people have viewed porn...or even viewed porn fairly regularly is no where near the same as having a full-blown addiction. Porn can have a nasty effect at any level, particularly if introduced at a younger pubescent/pre-adolecsent age. But frankly, where many may have viewed porn, most don't actually have an addiction. Some do, and it's devastating. But most don't. Most may be just curious and others may have developed a bad habit. I think it can just be helpful for a number of people to realize, what exactly they're fighting. And it's easier to fight a mouse than it is a dragon.....but the way we talk about porn has little to no gradation, sounds similar to if we were fight bubonic plague, and can inadvertently isolate people struggling with their habits. The language that's used can further shame people who's use isn't to the point of addiction. This, ironically, makes it harder to kick, because they've learned an easy way to self-sooth is porn.  

No doubt with the best of intentions people have compared it to the plague. But in so doing we have created a stigma, something kind of like the Scarlet Letter. If you have been addicted to pornography in many peoples eyes you are black listed. It matters not what you have done after, or if you have overcome the addiction, or if everyone around you struggles. What we have really been taught is not to talk about on a personal level. "Avoid discussing it personally, as you would the plague." And the sad thing is, almost everyone has been exposed. So perhaps we have created a group of liars?

 

It does not go away if we do not talk about it on a personal level. In fact, pornography thrives in the shadows. Bring it out into the light of day and I think many of the problems we see would go away. 

[why me]

 

 

It does not go away if we do not talk about it on a personal level. In fact, pornography thrives in the shadows. Bring it out into the light of day and I think many of the problems we see would go away. 

Not true. Pornography is certainly out of the shadows now. In fact, tabloids often have the goings on of pornstars on their webpages. For example, the Duke Student who went to act in porn films, the former wall street intern who went to act in porn and one of the mom's on the reality TV show about teenage moms who began to act in porn. Plus, we also just had an article about a recent movie that hired a porn star to do a nude scene. So, it is now more and more out of the shadows, not to mention the news about a porn convention in NY complete with the pornsite that sponored it in a famous NY tabloid.

[janderich]

Not true. Pornography is certainly out of the shadows now. In fact, tabloids often have the goings on of pornstars on their webpages. For example, the Duke Student who went to act in porn films, the former wall street intern who went to act in porn and one of the mom's on the reality TV show about teenage moms who began to act in porn. Plus, we also just had an article about a recent movie that hired a porn star to do a nude scene. So, it is now more and more out of the shadows, not to mention the news about a porn convention in NY complete with the pornsite that sponored it in a famous NY tabloid.

Fair statement. Let me add a few qualifiers. By bringing it out into the light I do not simply mean bringing the first half of the story out in the open. After all, the adversary thrives on showing only the lust laden, thrill. What we need to discuss is the eventual pain and anguish, the heartache and struggle, and finally, how the atonement can cleanse such a person. By doing this we show the truth. This is what we need. 

[The Nehor]

Porn, smoking, drugs, food, take your pick of addictions are just symptoms of something else. Some people do these things to fill some void or to cover up previous pain. So stopping any addiction doesn't take away what drives the addiction. I just don't buy the reasoning about porn addiction. All these chemicals get released when you view it and your body reacts in certain ways, well doesn't your brain release the same chemicals when you see real life nudidity? your mind can tell the difference between what's real and what is in a magazine or screen or whatever, but your brain and body can't. Is sex addictive? aren't the same chemicals released when you engage in intercourse as is when you see porn?

 

The problem is that porn activates those chemicals without the other stimuli associated with sex and sexual desire and, thanks to high-speed internet access, can do so with many people. There is a difference between having sex with someone and voyeuristically having sex with dozens of people within minutes. The chemical high is different and much more addictive.

 

While often addictions do form due to a deficiency somewhere else curing the deficiency does not cure alcoholism, remove a tobacco addiction, or remove a desire for porn. A teen boy experimenting with porn for the first time is just as likely to want sexual expression as to be dealing with some kind of void or pain.

[cinepro]

For those who can't make it to a group or class for help, this video helped me tremendously with my addition.

 

Addition Recovery

Edited March 30, 2015 by cinepro

[RegularMormon]

For those who can't make it to a group or class for help, this video helped me tremendously with my addition.

 

Addition Recovery

 

ROFL I was wondering when someone would catch my faux pas.  

[pogi]

Porn, smoking, drugs, food, take your pick of addictions are just symptoms of something else. Some people do these things to fill some void or to cover up previous pain. So stopping any addiction doesn't take away what drives the addiction. I just don't buy the reasoning about porn addiction. All these chemicals get released when you view it and your body reacts in certain ways, well doesn't your brain release the same chemicals when you see real life nudidity? your mind can tell the difference between what's real and what is in a magazine or screen or whatever, but your brain and body can't. Is sex addictive? aren't the same chemicals released when you engage in intercourse as is when you see porn?

 

Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as addiction in general then?  

 

Because addiction is a manifestation of deeper root issues, doesn't mean it's not an addiction.  It simply means that we treat it in part by addressing the root issues. 

 

Addictions are characterized primarily by an inability to discontinue a harmful behavior despite its negative consequences.  Porn most certainly fits that definition in many.  Yes, sex can also be addictive.  That is what SA is for. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by pogi

[pogi]

But frankly, where many may have viewed porn, most don't actually have an addiction. 

 

I would submit that most people who claim that they are not addicted have never tried to stop 

 

"I could stop if I wanted",  is the common response. 

 

Unfortunately, most LDS men don't realize that they have an addiction until they get married.  They naively assume that 3 months of "white knuckling" for a temple recommend, followed by real sex will make it go away. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by pogi

[Duncan]

Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as addiction in general then?  

 

Because addiction is a manifestation of deeper root issues, doesn't mean it's not an addiction.  It simply means that we treat it in part by addressing the root issues. 

 

Addictions are characterized primarily by an inability to discontinue a harmful behavior despite its negative consequences.  Porn most certainly fits that definition in many.  Yes, sex can also be addictive.  That is what SA is for. 

 

 

I am saying there is addiction! but I am saying is that it seems to me that this chemical business has a two pronged effect, sex stimuli in whatever form-porn or real nakkididity and on one hand we have a porn addiction which is bad and on the other hand we have real life actual sex, both need the same chemicals to achieve the desired results, but we only talk about the porn addiction and I am saying why don't we ever talk about sex addiction? it seems to me that to engage in real sex the brain doesn't release different chemicals does it? No

[pogi]

I am saying there is addiction! but I am saying is that it seems to me that this chemical business has a two pronged effect, sex stimuli in whatever form-porn or real nakkididity and on one hand we have a porn addiction which is bad and on the other hand we have real life actual sex, both need the same chemicals to achieve the desired results, but we only talk about the porn addiction and I am saying why don't we ever talk about sex addiction? it seems to me that to engage in real sex the brain doesn't release different chemicals does it? No

 

I see.  Sorry for the misunderstanding. When you said "I don't buy the reasoning about porn addiction" I thought you were arguing that it is not a real addiction. 

[Duncan]

I see.  Sorry for the misunderstanding. When you said "I don't buy the reasoning about porn addiction" I thought you were arguing that it is not a real addiction. 

 

don't worry about it! I know porn is an addiction but yeah the reasons given don't make sense to me but I am willing to be corrected!

[bdouglas]

So what, then, does the typical LDS addict do, what does he (or she) say to himself? "Better to remain silent and get well on my own," he says, "than risk losing everything by confessing."

Edited March 31, 2015 by bdouglas

[canard78]

Porn, smoking, drugs, food, take your pick of addictions are just symptoms of something else. Some people do these things to fill some void or to cover up previous pain. So stopping any addiction doesn't take away what drives the addiction. I just don't buy the reasoning about porn addiction. All these chemicals get released when you view it and your body reacts in certain ways, well doesn't your brain release the same chemicals when you see real life nudidity? your mind can tell the difference between what's real and what is in a magazine or screen or whatever, but your brain and body can't. Is sex addictive? aren't the same chemicals released when you engage in intercourse as is when you see porn?

Not everyone who smokes or drinks is an addict. Just as not everyone who eats is addicted to food.

On the same token, lots of people who look at porn are not addicted to it. There is such a thing as sex/porn addiction. It's unhealthy and destructive to the individual and to relationships.

I think the excessive rhetoric that couples porn to addiction in the church is unhelpful. I absolutely agree that porn can become addictive and I also completely agree that porn is emotionally, socially and sexually destructive.

Teaching positive and proactive messages about bodies, relationships and respect is going to go a lot further than excessively vilifying porn and identifying addiction where there is none at all

[pogi]

So what, then, does the typical LDS addict do, what does he (or she) say to himself? "Better to remain silent and get well on my own," he says, "than risk losing everything by confessing."

 

I'm sorry you had such a difficult experience.  My experience working with ecclesiastical leaders has been entirely different from yours.  I am also an addict in recovery.  I never experienced church discipline for confessing my addiction and working with ecclesiastical leaders in overcoming it.  In fact, most bishops I have worked with allowed me to take the sacrament so long as I was working on my recovery.  I have never heard of anyone being disfellowshiped for confessing and working with ecclesiastical leaders in overcoming addiction (with the exception of sex addiction where excommunication occurs).

Edited March 31, 2015 by pogi