Overcoming Pornography Addition

[Bernard Gui]

Having worked with LDS Family Services Addiction Recovery programs for over 8 years, I can say addiction to pornography is increasing in numbers and intensity. It is exceedingly difficult to overcome partly because of the powerful chemical changes in the brain and the fact that triggers are omnipresent and unavoidable....if not overtly then within the memory. It devastates marriage and family relationships and usually was in full swing long before marriage but kept secret. Unfortunately, not all medical professionals agree that it is a problem, but I regularly witness the destruction it causes. Compounding the difficulty is the extremely personal and secretive nature of the affliction both to the addict and his/her lived ones. It is Satan's perfect tool.

[BlueDreams]

regularly viewing porn is addiction no matter the frequency. some just have worse addictions or more progressed addictions than others.

 

No, no it's most certainly not. It's like comparing a chocolate craving to a binge eater. There's a major difference between the two even though some of the food choices may be similar, the amount, frequency, level of compulsion, and co-morbid psychological factors do not come close to the level of addiction. 

 

I would submit that most people who claim that they are not addicted have never tried to stop 

 

"I could stop if I wanted",  is the common response. 

 

Unfortunately, most LDS men don't realize that they have an addiction until they get married.  They naively assume that 3 months of "white knuckling" for a temple recommend, followed by real sex will make it go away. 

haha....but no. And I could stop my chocolate fix any day of the week....most days I don't even eat chocolate!

 

But honestly the few that I know who I would put not with a form of addiction (compared to the ones I've known who have)....don't have a problem with personal denial. They often have a problem with massive shame. They're usually masters of beating themselves up for every little "slip" and give unnecessary promotions to what they're watching or doing. They come in feeling as though their's no hope for them. The funny thing was when they were alleviated of their shame, became aware that their problem wasn't an addiction or something second only to murder, and that they'd just formed and maintained a bad habit....there was room for rapid change. 

 

Porn addicts may say that. In fact I've met or heard a number who would work to numb out their conscience in some way...being extra good in other areas, stop attending church or disbelieving because their "values" didn't match up, placing blame on other people instead of themselves. Etc.

 

But I do agree, a number do think that marriage will "make it go away" or that simply stopping the behavior will be enough. Whether as an addiction or even the bad habit ones, the behavior is often compensation to problems in their lives. Many have problems learning to more healthily emotionally regulate. But again, the level of the problem for most men (and women) does not meet up to an actual addiction. It just doesn't.

 

And of course it's hard for any of us to curb habits that make us feel good for a moment. If someone told me I had to stop doodling and painting I'd laugh in their faces. Giving up dark chocolate would be a challenge (P.S. I can make a bag last for months...I'm still not through my xmas candy). And don't you dare touch my Hulu playlist. The difference between these and a person who watches porn 2 times a month is the stigma and the language that we've built up around it. Beside that, it's a compensatory behavior that entails some form of pleasure. Sex isn't unhealthy, nor is enjoying a fun show, or having a bit of chocolate, or enjoying a favorite leasure activity. It's how we use these or exploit them that change it to something negative. And it is how we abuse to a point of excess compulsion and personal loss in quality of life/relationships that can make them addictions and detrimental.

 

 

With luv,

BD

Edited March 31, 2015 by BlueDreams

[Mystery Meat]

No, no it's most certainly not. It's like comparing a chocolate craving to a binge eater. There's a major difference between the two even though some of the food choices may be similar, the amount, frequency, level of compulsion, and co-morbid psychological factors do not come close to the level of addiction. 

 

haha....but no. And I could stop my chocolate fix any day of the week....most days I don't even eat chocolate!

 

But honestly the few that I know who I would put not with a form of addiction (compared to the ones I've known who have)....don't have a problem with personal denial. They often have a problem with massive shame. They're usually masters of beating themselves up for every little "slip" and give unnecessary promotions to what they're watching or doing. They come in feeling as though their's no hope for them. The funny thing was when they were alleviated of their shame, became aware that their problem wasn't an addiction or something second only to murder, and that they'd just formed and maintained a bad habit....there was room for rapid change. 

 

Porn addicts may say that. In fact I've met or heard a number who would work to numb out their conscience in some way...being extra good in other areas, stop attending church or disbelieving because their "values" didn't match up, placing blame on other people instead of themselves. Etc.

 

But I do agree, a number do think that marriage will "make it go away" or that simply stopping the behavior will be enough. Whether as an addiction or even the bad habit ones, the behavior is often compensation to problems in their lives. Many have problems learning to more healthily emotionally regulate. But again, the level of the problem for most men (and women) does not meet up to an actual addiction. It just doesn't.

 

And of course it's hard for any of us to curb habits that make us feel good for a moment. If someone told me I had to stop doodling and painting I'd laugh in their faces. Giving up dark chocolate would be a challenge (P.S. I can make a bag last for months...I'm still not through my xmas candy). And don't you dare touch my Hulu playlist. The difference between these and a person who watches porn 2 times a month is the stigma and the language that we've built up around it. Beside that, it's a compensatory behavior that entails some form of pleasure. Sex isn't unhealthy, nor is enjoying a fun show, or having a bit of chocolate, or enjoying a favorite leasure activity. It's how we use these or exploit them that change it to something negative. And it is how we abuse to a point of excess compulsion and personal loss in quality of life/relationships that can make them addictions and detrimental.

 

 

With luv,

BD

 

This time eleventy billion.

 

I used to say I was an addict. But to be honest, I just needed a reason to change bad behavioral pattern. I found a reason and now it is as easy as pie (whereas for years I thought I was a hopeless and worthless addict). I would ask every porn consumer to identify what void porn is trying to fill. For some it is just fun (that doesn't make it right). For others it is an escape.

 

The most powerful thing I have experienced is realizing that it is not as challenging as I once believed.

[The Nehor]

While I agree that not all porn viewers are addicts it is becoming an increasing problem. The ease of availability and variety are increasing addiction both in the church and outside.

 

I have said before that unless we find a new and incredibly virulent disease porn addiction will be the next public health crisis. Right now it is hidden pretty well by shame brought on by a general justification that it is healthy and/or harmless but that will fade as the consequences intensify.

 

President Packer has made the observation that addiction is almost like the adversary cheating and prays that the Lord will reveal a cure, whether it is scientific or through some other means. I have to agree. There is no equivalent to addiction on the Lord's side. Why should sin "stick" in a way that virtue does not?

Edited March 31, 2015 by The Nehor

[Tacenda]

Why is this so prevalent in the church? I think I know why, but heaven forbid I share it. Actually, going to share an article when I'm at the computer tomorrow. But until then, it's called the shame game.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Tacenda

[Coreyb]

I doubt porn use or porn addiction is more prevalent in the church than in the society at large. I think more people may say they are addicted to porn in the church, but that is probably due to self misdiagnosis.

[The Nehor]

Why is this so prevalent in the church? I think I know why, but heaven forbid I share it. Actually, going to share an article when I'm at the computer tomorrow. But until then, it's called the shame game.

 

It is not so prevalent in the Church. It is actually amazingly low in the Church compared to the general population.

[blooit]

I had a bishop at BYU share very openly and honestly how he overcame pornography while he was bishop.  It was very helpful to many I believe.

[canard78]

No, no it's most certainly not. It's like comparing a chocolate craving to a binge eater. There's a major difference between the two even though some of the food choices may be similar, the amount, frequency, level of compulsion, and co-morbid psychological factors do not come close to the level of addiction.

haha....but no. And I could stop my chocolate fix any day of the week....most days I don't even eat chocolate!

But honestly the few that I know who I would put not with a form of addiction (compared to the ones I've known who have)....don't have a problem with personal denial. They often have a problem with massive shame. They're usually masters of beating themselves up for every little "slip" and give unnecessary promotions to what they're watching or doing. They come in feeling as though their's no hope for them. The funny thing was when they were alleviated of their shame, became aware that their problem wasn't an addiction or something second only to murder, and that they'd just formed and maintained a bad habit....there was room for rapid change.

Porn addicts may say that. In fact I've met or heard a number who would work to numb out their conscience in some way...being extra good in other areas, stop attending church or disbelieving because their "values" didn't match up, placing blame on other people instead of themselves. Etc.

But I do agree, a number do think that marriage will "make it go away" or that simply stopping the behavior will be enough. Whether as an addiction or even the bad habit ones, the behavior is often compensation to problems in their lives. Many have problems learning to more healthily emotionally regulate. But again, the level of the problem for most men (and women) does not meet up to an actual addiction. It just doesn't.

And of course it's hard for any of us to curb habits that make us feel good for a moment. If someone told me I had to stop doodling and painting I'd laugh in their faces. Giving up dark chocolate would be a challenge (P.S. I can make a bag last for months...I'm still not through my xmas candy). And don't you dare touch my Hulu playlist. The difference between these and a person who watches porn 2 times a month is the stigma and the language that we've built up around it. Beside that, it's a compensatory behavior that entails some form of pleasure. Sex isn't unhealthy, nor is enjoying a fun show, or having a bit of chocolate, or enjoying a favorite leasure activity. It's how we use these or exploit them that change it to something negative. And it is how we abuse to a point of excess compulsion and personal loss in quality of life/relationships that can make them addictions and detrimental.

With luv,

BD

Brilliantly measured and well-reasoned response.

It's nice to have some actual evidence based commentary on this thread rather than the hype and hyperbole.

[Tacenda]

Brilliantly measured and well-reasoned response.

It's nice to have some actual evidence based commentary on this thread rather than the hype and hyperbole.

I agree wholeheartedly, BD is spot on. I neglected to read her post before. It goes right along with an article I wanted to post tomorrow!

[why me]

I think that addiction to porn is rather secondary than to the actually act of watching it. For example, the people acting in porn are basically have premarital sex not just with one partner but with many partners. This is something that would be frowned upon by most members of the church if a member was actually having such a sex life. In fact, they may be excommunicated. So, when one watches porn, one can be encouraging such a sin taking place. I think that this is much more harmful than the addiction itself.

 

Not to mention the fact of body exploitation. This has much to do with the men as with the women since there is one particular body part of the man that is being exploited. Many men who do act in porn feel such exploitation. And quite a few men who act in porn have difficulty coming to terms about being valued because of a body part. However, since the lds do have doctrine about sex outside of marriage encouraging an industry that makes money  from such human relationships by watching humans having sex is actually more harmful than the addiction.

[why me]

Why is this so prevalent in the church? I think I know why, but heaven forbid I share it. Actually, going to share an article when I'm at the computer tomorrow. But until then, it's called the shame game.

The common denominator would be: since premartial sex is a sin and it is very stressed as a sin, watching porn is a release from the restriction. In terms of shame, I don't think that this  would be a particular lds problem. However, if one does not view premarital sex as a sin and one has premarital sex without the notion of sin, does not mean that one will not watch porn. But since more and more teens are watching porn, I am sure that the shame factor is fading under the natural right of passage that teenagers face through watching porn. In other words, since the majority are watching it, there is no shame.

[Kevin Christensen]

I'm the ARP rep for my stake.  I deal with addicts regularly.  I've done recovery myself.  I've listened to scores, if not hundreds of life stories.  I use this essay by Dr. Donald Hilton when I teach people what addiction is:

 

http://scottwoodward.org/Talks/html/z-Scholarly%20Articles/HiltonDL_UnderstandingTheAddictiveNatureOfPornography.html

 

It's important to remember that addiction is a progressive disease.  Twelve step recovery directly addresses the damage caused by addiction and actually heals it.  It's not just a matter of piling on a large and heavy moral weight of DON'T!  Addiction, by nature involves increased craving and impeded judgement.  12 Step groups provide support for healing and addressing the craving, and the step work, the "searching and fearless moral inventory" and story sharing helps restore judgment.

 

The concern about a stigma attached to the label should also be measured against the consequences where a failure to diagnose inevitably means a failure to seek treatment.   Should we wait until our consequences are sufficiently tragic before we deal with a problem?  

 

FWIW

 

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[Kenngo1969]

Kevin,

 

I was hoping you'd weigh in.  It's always nice to have your perspective on this issue (and so many others!)

 

-Ken

[RegularMormon]

I had a bishop at BYU share very openly and honestly how he overcame pornography while he was bishop.  It was very helpful to many I believe.

 

This is exactly what I was hoping someone would share.  I bet that was extremely helpful to many who are too ashamed to seek help.

[RegularMormon]

While I agree that not all porn viewers are addicts it is becoming an increasing problem. The ease of availability and variety are increasing addiction both in the church and outside.

 

I have said before that unless we find a new and incredibly virulent disease porn addiction will be the next public health crisis. Right now it is hidden pretty well by shame brought on by a general justification that it is healthy and/or harmless but that will fade as the consequences intensify.

 

President Packer has made the observation that addiction is almost like the adversary cheating and prays that the Lord will reveal a cure, whether it is scientific or through some other means. I have to agree. There is no equivalent to addiction on the Lord's side. Why should sin "stick" in a way that virtue does not?

 

 

Agreed, I think porn is busting through our homes and into our family regardless of the protections we've placed.  I failed to mention this Stake representative who spoke at our ward kinda felt inadequate to speak on this because he didn't feel he had enough experience in it since his children were only 4 - 6 - 8 - and 10.  He decided to sit down with them each anyway during a family  home evening and had a frank discussion and was SHOCKED to discover already his 10 yr and 8 yr old were already introduced to pornography through friends at school AND his 6 year old!  This is an issue that is attacking our youth regardless of all the safe measures in place. (Not to leave the adults out of this topic but this is where it starts) 

[Mystery Meat]

I used to think about my porn "addiction" everyday. So much mental energy was expended on not looking at porn and doing everything right during the day to make sure I didn't continue my addictive behavior. When I realized I was fighting a gnat instead of a hydra, the game completely changed. I might think about porn (in order to avoid it) once a week now. Almost nothing else has changed. I still have the same challenges and the same faith. I'm still attracted to women and I still have many of the same insecurities. 

 

But I changed habits. 

 

That's the only difference.

[Duncan]

I used to think about my porn "addiction" everyday. So much mental energy was expended on not looking at porn and doing everything right during the day to make sure I didn't continue my addictive behavior. When I realized I was fighting a gnat instead of a hydra, the game completely changed. I might think about porn (in order to avoid it) once a week now. Almost nothing else has changed. I still have the same challenges and the same faith. I'm still attracted to women and I still have many of the same insecurities. 

 

But I changed habits. 

 

That's the only difference.

 

 

kinda like don't think about Pink Elephants?

[Tacenda]

https://mormonsexuality.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/better-dead-than-unclean/#comments

 

(Just a snippet of the beginning of the article.)  

Better Dead than Unclean

Posted on September 3, 2013by skipcameron

As I was cleaning the temple the other day I got into a discussion with two sisters with adolescent children.  I mentioned that I had given a presentation on dating and marriage to the youth in our ward and shared some of the things I had talked about.  As the conversation continued it turned toward some of the sexual issues in the Church that impact dating and marriage (such as pornography and, by implication, masturbation) and one of the sisters shared with me a familiar story.  She said that almost overnight her typically cheerful teenage son had become sullen, withdrawn, and irritable.  She didn’t know what was going on and after a few days confronted him about this sudden change.  She asked him what was wrong and he replied that he wanted to kill himself.  Shocked, she probed deeper and discovered that he had been exposed to pornography and was now dealing with all of the emotional, spiritual, and physiological complications that set upon a teenage boy once that genie is out of the bottle.  It would also appear that he was trying to sort through these powerful, alien, and unwieldy new issues in isolation because the perceived risks of “coming clean” and asking for help (i.e. not being able to pass/bless/take the sacrament, not being able to attend youth temple activities, the fear of having all his family, friend, church leaders, and neighbors “know” why he couldn’t do those things , the disdain and disappointment of all those people whose opinions of you mean the most, etc.) are too terrifying for a 13-year old kid to bear.

The purpose of this post is to shed some light on what I feel is a far-reaching and avoidable problem in the Church: The isolation, shame, hopelessness, despair, depression, and sometimes suicidal ideation that is experienced by many young men (and some young women) as a result of adolescent masturbation and/or pornography use.  To be clear, I believe that there are definitely problems that can arise from unchecked and uneducated masturbation and pornography use by adolescents, and that some of the Church’s puritanical views and teachings on the matter are on firm ground, but what I hope to call into question with the stories I will be sharing in this post is this: Which is the more serious problem?  The shame, depression, and sometimes catastrophic feelings of hopeless unworthiness that can come to a young man or woman struggling, and likely failing, to perfectly live up to the Church’s standard of “moral cleanliness,” or the actual masturbation/ pornography use itself in that young person’s life?

The most recent version of the “For the Strength of Youth” pamphlet provides the following grave counsel:

I have a number of problems with the counsel, or at least how the counsel is presented, in “For the Strength of Youth” regarding masturbation and pornography use by youth and I plan to do a point-by-point critique in the future.  For now, however, I hope that the stories I have compiled here will effectively illustrate how broken and destructive our current messaging in the Church can be when it comes to these issues.  To keep a realistic perspective, let us remember that according to the 2010 Survey of Sexual Behavior in the United States (N = 5,865, of which 414 were boys aged 14-17) found that 62-75% of boys aged 14-17 had masturbated at least once in the 12 months prior to the survey, and 43-58% had done so in the prior month.  There could be arguments made that these statistics are not representative of the LDS youth population and that the numbers there would be significantly lower.  I would argue that a case could be made that due to the shame cycle that I have written about previously, the numbers could actually be higher than the national average (as they are for online pornography subscriptions in Utah).  But even if we cut the numbers in half to estimate rates among more spiritually minded LDS youth, that still leaves us with 20-30% of LDS boys aged 14-17 engaging in masturbation about once a month, and 31-38% engaging at least once a year.

Use of pornography is a serious sin and can lead to other sexual transgression.  Avoid pornography at all costs.  It is a poison that weakens your self-control, destroys your feelings of self-worth, and changes the way you see others.  It causes you to lose the guidance of the Spirit and can damage your ability to have a normal relationship with others, especially your future spouse…If you are involved in pornography, cease now. (p. 12) In God’s sight, sexual sins are extremely serious.  They defile the sacred power God has given us to create life.  The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder or denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:5).  Never do anything that could lead to sexual transgression.  Treat others with respect, not as objects used to satisfy lustful and selfish desires…Do not do anything…that arouses sexual feelings.  Do not arouse those emotions in your own body…The Spirit of the Lord will withdraw from one who is in sexual transgression… (p. 36)

 

Edited March 31, 2015 by Tacenda

[Mystery Meat]

 

https://mormonsexuality.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/better-dead-than-unclean/#comments

 

(Just a snippet of the beginning of the article.)  

Better Dead than Unclean

Posted on September 3, 2013by skipcameron

As I was cleaning the temple the other day I got into a discussion with two sisters with adolescent children.  I mentioned that I had given a presentation on dating and marriage to the youth in our ward and shared some of the things I had talked about.  As the conversation continued it turned toward some of the sexual issues in the Church that impact dating and marriage (such as pornography and, by implication, masturbation) and one of the sisters shared with me a familiar story.  She said that almost overnight her typically cheerful teenage son had become sullen, withdrawn, and irritable.  She didn’t know what was going on and after a few days confronted him about this sudden change.  She asked him what was wrong and he replied that he wanted to kill himself.  Shocked, she probed deeper and discovered that he had been exposed to pornography and was now dealing with all of the emotional, spiritual, and physiological complications that set upon a teenage boy once that genie is out of the bottle.  It would also appear that he was trying to sort through these powerful, alien, and unwieldy new issues in isolation because the perceived risks of “coming clean” and asking for help (i.e. not being able to pass/bless/take the sacrament, not being able to attend youth temple activities, the fear of having all his family, friend, church leaders, and neighbors “know” why he couldn’t do those things , the disdain and disappointment of all those people whose opinions of you mean the most, etc.) are too terrifying for a 13-year old kid to bear.

The purpose of this post is to shed some light on what I feel is a far-reaching and avoidable problem in the Church: The isolation, shame, hopelessness, despair, depression, and sometimes suicidal ideation that is experienced by many young men (and some young women) as a result of adolescent masturbation and/or pornography use.  To be clear, I believe that there are definitely problems that can arise from unchecked and uneducated masturbation and pornography use by adolescents, and that some of the Church’s puritanical views and teachings on the matter are on firm ground, but what I hope to call into question with the stories I will be sharing in this post is this: Which is the more serious problem?  The shame, depression, and sometimes catastrophic feelings of hopeless unworthiness that can come to a young man or woman struggling, and likely failing, to perfectly live up to the Church’s standard of “moral cleanliness,” or the actual masturbation/ pornography use itself in that young person’s life?

The most recent version of the “For the Strength of Youth” pamphlet provides the following grave counsel:

I have a number of problems with the counsel, or at least how the counsel is presented, in “For the Strength of Youth” regarding masturbation and pornography use by youth and I plan to do a point-by-point critique in the future.  For now, however, I hope that the stories I have compiled here will effectively illustrate how broken and destructive our current messaging in the Church can be when it comes to these issues.  To keep a realistic perspective, let us remember that according to the 2010 Survey of Sexual Behavior in the United States (N = 5,865, of which 414 were boys aged 14-17) found that 62-75% of boys aged 14-17 had masturbated at least once in the 12 months prior to the survey, and 43-58% had done so in the prior month.  There could be arguments made that these statistics are not representative of the LDS youth population and that the numbers there would be significantly lower.  I would argue that a case could be made that due to the shame cycle that I have written about previously, the numbers could actually be higher than the national average (as they are for online pornography subscriptions in Utah).  But even if we cut the numbers in half to estimate rates among more spiritually minded LDS youth, that still leaves us with 20-30% of LDS boys aged 14-17 engaging in masturbation about once a month, and 31-38% engaging at least once a year.

Use of pornography is a serious sin and can lead to other sexual transgression.  Avoid pornography at all costs.  It is a poison that weakens your self-control, destroys your feelings of self-worth, and changes the way you see others.  It causes you to lose the guidance of the Spirit and can damage your ability to have a normal relationship with others, especially your future spouse…If you are involved in pornography, cease now. (p. 12) In God’s sight, sexual sins are extremely serious.  They defile the sacred power God has given us to create life.  The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder or denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:5).  Never do anything that could lead to sexual transgression.  Treat others with respect, not as objects used to satisfy lustful and selfish desires…Do not do anything…that arouses sexual feelings.  Do not arouse those emotions in your own body…The Spirit of the Lord will withdraw from one who is in sexual transgression… (p. 36)

 

 

 

Tacenda, I actually agree with much of what is said here. However, I do not blame the Church per se (meaning the organization) as much as I blame the culture (the members as a whole). Having seen my fair share (in fact more than my fair share) of porn I can say with confidence that as bad as the leadership of the Church makes the problem out to be, they have, if any thing, completely underestimated just how damaging porn can be to an individual or their family and friends. Even if said person is not an addict, porn still ravages a person's soul and mind until they are a shell of their former self (thank God for the Atonement). I know of what I speak. 

 

Some people will say that such feelings are completely related to their cultural perceptions of porn (Mormons think porn is bad and so they experience all of these self created side effects of porn). I have one thing to say about such people: they are full blown idiots. That is all.

 

Now, I agree, as bad as the consequences for looking at porn are (and make no mistake they are grave and disgusting), the social consequences that many (most) members of the LDS Church have created are probably far worse. I do not blame the leadership for this problem. In fact, in my first encounters with them, the social side effects bother them as much as anyone else I have ever met. But they have a responsibility to warn about pornography. If anything their warnings have not been strong enough.

 

Some, it would seem, want the Church to basically take the approach of "its no big deal if you look at porn and/or masturbate. Kids (men/women) will be kids (men/women)." Not only would that be a complete shirking of duty, it would be a monumental disservice to the Church membership to justify such a damaging and toxic practice.

 

Also I have no qualms with the For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet (with perhaps a few minor tweaks). 

[Duncan]

One of the most memorable zone conferences I ever had was when the MP talked to us elders about Self abuse. He seperated us from the sisters and heaven only knows what they got talked to about! But his approach was "don't call me unless you're doing like 3 times a day thing" it seemed like he wanted us to get off our back about it, take the shame away and just ease off and maybe that will make the problem go away? I have absolutely no idea what was going on or what the outcome was but there it is. I know a guy who grew up in the Church who almost killed himself over it. A few years ago in Stake Priesthood mtg our Stake President told everyone that "M* leads to murder"  well....................if that were true then everyone would be dead or in prison

[why me]

The best way to cure a porn addiction is to watch a porn movie being made. It is quite boring, It is a series of the 'director' yelling action, cut, action, cut, lets take a break, take up where you left off, etc. And then seeing the porn stars without makeup is another cure. Fantasy dies quickly. The business is into creating the ultimate fantasy. But in reality it is just a money making business, with plenty of young women who wish to act in films, especially from eastern europe and russia.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/porn-stars-makeup-gallery-1.1286228

 

The thing is: without the makeup, the women are just human beings with beautiful souls who may have had a troubled past.

Edited March 31, 2015 by why me

[pogi]

haha....but no. And I could stop my chocolate fix any day of the week....most days I don't even eat chocolate!

 

But honestly the few that I know who I would put not with a form of addiction (compared to the ones I've known who have)....don't have a problem with personal denial. They often have a problem with massive shame. They're usually masters of beating themselves up for every little "slip" and give unnecessary promotions to what they're watching or doing. They come in feeling as though their's no hope for them. The funny thing was when they were alleviated of their shame, became aware that their problem wasn't an addiction or something second only to murder, and that they'd just formed and maintained a bad habit....there was room for rapid change. 

 

Porn addicts may say that. In fact I've met or heard a number who would work to numb out their conscience in some way...being extra good in other areas, stop attending church or disbelieving because their "values" didn't match up, placing blame on other people instead of themselves. Etc.

 

But I do agree, a number do think that marriage will "make it go away" or that simply stopping the behavior will be enough. Whether as an addiction or even the bad habit ones, the behavior is often compensation to problems in their lives. Many have problems learning to more healthily emotionally regulate. But again, the level of the problem for most men (and women) does not meet up to an actual addiction. It just doesn't.

 

And of course it's hard for any of us to curb habits that make us feel good for a moment. If someone told me I had to stop doodling and painting I'd laugh in their faces. Giving up dark chocolate would be a challenge (P.S. I can make a bag last for months...I'm still not through my xmas candy). And don't you dare touch my Hulu playlist. The difference between these and a person who watches porn 2 times a month is the stigma and the language that we've built up around it. Beside that, it's a compensatory behavior that entails some form of pleasure. Sex isn't unhealthy, nor is enjoying a fun show, or having a bit of chocolate, or enjoying a favorite leasure activity. It's how we use these or exploit them that change it to something negative. And it is how we abuse to a point of excess compulsion and personal loss in quality of life/relationships that can make them addictions and detrimental.

 

 

With luv,

BD

 

I think you are spot on in regard to shame.  One of the biggest light-bulb moments in understanding the root causes of my addiction came from reading John Bradshaw's Healing the Shame that Binds You.  Far too often we judge ourselves instead of the behavior - "I am bad" vs "I did bad."  This kind of shame-based approach is detrimental and reinforces bad behavior.

 

In regards to addiction vs bad habit, where does one end and the other begin?  To me, they are essentially the same problem at opposite ends of the spectrum.  They are essentially the same organism where one is simply more developed than the other.  One is a sprout and the other is a tree, but they are both the mighty red wood.  To me, the only difference between a bad habit and an addiction is how shame-based the individual is.  That is what will determine the level of severity of a bad habit.  It is the higher degrees of shame that cause the co-morbidities and severity of addiction to become evident.

 

The funny thing was when they were alleviated of their shame, became aware that their problem wasn't an addiction or something second only to murder, and that they'd just formed and maintained a bad habit....there was room for rapid change.

 

 

I believe that the best treatment for bad habits (that you mention above) is the same for addiction (further signifying that we really are talking about the same beast) - to address the shame instead of simply trying to stop the behavior - and practice new coping mechanisms.  I agree with you that shame is the problem, however, I don't agree that we need to soften our language regarding the evil nature of pornography, we simply need to focus our language on the behavior and not on the individual participating in the behavior.  Again it is the "I am bad" vs. "I did bad."  One leads to toxic shame and bondage, the other leads to healthy guilt and healing.  We need to know that porn is evil, but we  need to learn to remove the stigma from the person and place it on the product.  In other words, we need to learn to judge our behaviors and not our person, and do the same with others - judge the behavior, not the person.  

 

The only other thing that I would like to comment on is the unique nature of porn addiction.  Unlike other addictions, It does not appear that the frequency of behavior is a good indication of the severity of the addiction or problem.  From attending groups for many years, there are some who only look at porn a couple times a month.  You would think that they don't have that bad a problem.  But when one was forced to choose between his marriage or his porn - he chose the twice a month porn and his wife left him which caused him great heart-break and remorse.   Unlike chocolate or doodling, which have no negative consequences when done in moderation, pornography is detrimental at any dose.  The detrimental consequences of porn on self and others, makes it a severely dangerous practice.  One puts their marriage, emotional and spiritual wellbeing at jeopardy with every viewing.  To knowingly and willfully take such risks repetitively, takes it out of the realm of mere bad-habit in my mind.  It is not dark chocolate, it really is poison and destroys families.  

Edited March 31, 2015 by pogi

[why me]

I think you are spot on in regard to shame.  One of the biggest light-bulb moments in understanding the root causes of my addiction came from reading John Bradshaw's Healing the Shame that Binds You.  Far too often we judge ourselves instead of the behavior - "I am bad" vs "I did bad."  This kind of shame-based approach is detrimental and reinforces bad behavior.

 

 

 

 

I think that shame is a distinctly american problem since the US was founded and influenced by puritan moral codes. This would certainly influence american 'shame' attitudes to porn. However, in europe and in particular in scandinavia, shame does not play a role at all. Sex is a natural part of passage and porn would not be shameful to watch at all.

 

And these days, teens are viewing porn on their ipads, no longer being influenced by such moral codes. However, the puritan code is still out there, which can infuence them into some sort of outside shame. Americans have always been bi-polar when it comes to sex and morality.

[pogi]

I think that shame is a distinctly american problem 

 

You are telling me that nobody suffers from addiction or bad habits of any kind outside of the US?  Nobody suffers from deep (often unconscious) feelings or beliefs that they are bad, that they are mistakes, that they are unloveable and turn to unhealthy coping mechanism because of it?  Nobody suffers from the pains of self-inflicted isolation that shame causes, which leads one into the fantasy world?  I believe that shame is the greatest tool of the adversary and the chains of hell and bondage. 

 

This would certainly influence american 'shame' attitudes to porn. 

 

It is not the shame of "porn" per se that causes the addiction.  No, the seed was planted long before they ever saw their first image.  Categorizing porn as evil and bad is NOT the problem at all.  It is the shame-based family structures of early childhood that IS the problem.  It is not porn that makes us shame based people, it is shame that makes us porn based people.  

Edited March 31, 2015 by pogi