Overcoming Pornography Addition

[pogi]

The best way to cure a porn addiction...

 

We know it is not real, it is the un-reality (fantasy) of it that makes it such a potent mechanism. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by pogi

[why me]

 

https://mormonsexuality.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/better-dead-than-unclean/#comments

 

(Just a snippet of the beginning of the article.)  

Better Dead than Unclean

Posted on September 3, 2013by skipcameron

As I was cleaning the temple the other day I got into a discussion with two sisters with adolescent children.  I mentioned that I had given a presentation on dating and marriage to the youth in our ward and shared some of the things I had talked about.  As the conversation continued it turned toward some of the sexual issues in the Church that impact dating and marriage (such as pornography and, by implication, masturbation) and one of the sisters shared with me a familiar story.  She said that almost overnight her typically cheerful teenage son had become sullen, withdrawn, and irritable.  She didn’t know what was going on and after a few days confronted him about this sudden change.  She asked him what was wrong and he replied that he wanted to kill himself.  Shocked, she probed deeper and discovered that he had been exposed to pornography and was now dealing with all of the emotional, spiritual, and physiological complications that set upon a teenage boy once that genie is out of the bottle.  It would also appear that he was trying to sort through these powerful, alien, and unwieldy new issues in isolation because the perceived risks of “coming clean” and asking for help (i.e. not being able to pass/bless/take the sacrament, not being able to attend youth temple activities, the fear of having all his family, friend, church leaders, and neighbors “know” why he couldn’t do those things , the disdain and disappointment of all those people whose opinions of you mean the most, etc.) are too terrifying for a 13-year old kid to bear.

The purpose of this post is to shed some light on what I feel is a far-reaching and avoidable problem in the Church: The isolation, shame, hopelessness, despair, depression, and sometimes suicidal ideation that is experienced by many young men (and some young women) as a result of adolescent masturbation and/or pornography use.  To be clear, I believe that there are definitely problems that can arise from unchecked and uneducated masturbation and pornography use by adolescents, and that some of the Church’s puritanical views and teachings on the matter are on firm ground, but what I hope to call into question with the stories I will be sharing in this post is this: Which is the more serious problem?  The shame, depression, and sometimes catastrophic feelings of hopeless unworthiness that can come to a young man or woman struggling, and likely failing, to perfectly live up to the Church’s standard of “moral cleanliness,” or the actual masturbation/ pornography use itself in that young person’s life?

The most recent version of the “For the Strength of Youth” pamphlet provides the following grave counsel:

I have a number of problems with the counsel, or at least how the counsel is presented, in “For the Strength of Youth” regarding masturbation and pornography use by youth and I plan to do a point-by-point critique in the future.  For now, however, I hope that the stories I have compiled here will effectively illustrate how broken and destructive our current messaging in the Church can be when it comes to these issues.  To keep a realistic perspective, let us remember that according to the 2010 Survey of Sexual Behavior in the United States (N = 5,865, of which 414 were boys aged 14-17) found that 62-75% of boys aged 14-17 had masturbated at least once in the 12 months prior to the survey, and 43-58% had done so in the prior month.  There could be arguments made that these statistics are not representative of the LDS youth population and that the numbers there would be significantly lower.  I would argue that a case could be made that due to the shame cycle that I have written about previously, the numbers could actually be higher than the national average (as they are for online pornography subscriptions in Utah).  But even if we cut the numbers in half to estimate rates among more spiritually minded LDS youth, that still leaves us with 20-30% of LDS boys aged 14-17 engaging in masturbation about once a month, and 31-38% engaging at least once a year.

Use of pornography is a serious sin and can lead to other sexual transgression.  Avoid pornography at all costs.  It is a poison that weakens your self-control, destroys your feelings of self-worth, and changes the way you see others.  It causes you to lose the guidance of the Spirit and can damage your ability to have a normal relationship with others, especially your future spouse…If you are involved in pornography, cease now. (p. 12) In God’s sight, sexual sins are extremely serious.  They defile the sacred power God has given us to create life.  The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder or denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:5).  Never do anything that could lead to sexual transgression.  Treat others with respect, not as objects used to satisfy lustful and selfish desires…Do not do anything…that arouses sexual feelings.  Do not arouse those emotions in your own body…The Spirit of the Lord will withdraw from one who is in sexual transgression… (p. 36)

 

 

The thing is that if I go back 5 decades, most churches were speaking out against masturbation. I remember that as a catholic boy, nuns talking about it and how we would go to the fires of hell. It was normal to hear such talk regardless of the christian faith. Of course, with the sexual revolution of the 60s and of the seventies, those type of moral teachings began to disappear, especially in the late 70s and 80s. People were liberating themselves from sexual puritanism. However, the lds church did not budge. It stayed just where it was on sex issues. And so, we have a problem: to bend with the times or to hold firm to strict teachings.

Edited March 31, 2015 by why me

[why me]

You are telling me that nobody suffers from addiction or bad habits of any kind outside of the US?  Nobody suffers from deep (often unconscious) feelings or beliefs that they are bad, that they are mistakes, that they are unloveable and turn to unhealthy coping mechanism because of it?  Nobody suffers from the pains of self-inflicted isolation that shame causes, which leads one into the fantasy world?  I believe that shame is the greatest tool of the adversary and the chains of hell and bondage. 

 

 

Americans have been raised in puritan traditions when it comes to sex. And shame in watching porn is a reflection of that shame in watching it. I don't think that danish men and women watching porn feel very much shame. Likewise in sweden. I  dont even think that they view it as a bad habit. Porn is a multi billion dollar business. It is not a business built on shame world wide.

[pogi]

Americans have been raised in puritan traditions when it comes to sex. And shame in watching porn is a reflection of that shame in watching it. I don't think that danish men and women watching porn feel very much shame. Likewise in sweden. I  dont even think that they view it as a bad habit. Porn is a multi billion dollar business. It is not a business built on shame world wide.

 

It would be interesting to compare the prevalence and rates of porn addiction in the US vs Europe.  

 

It is unfortunate that people feel shame for viewing porn as that does reinforces the problem.  However, some level of guilt is absolutely essential in changing behaviors.  In other words, the best solution is not to pretend like porn is not evil, but instead to love ourselves, families and friends through the behavior.  

 

The Danish and Swedish solution to shame is to call evil good (or at least neutral according to you), that will not work for me and my spiritual well-being.  That is NOT the right solution.  

[why me]

We know it is not real, it is the un-reality (fantasy) of it that makes it such a potent mechanism. 

And this is why the best cure is to see a porn movie being made. No fantasy at all, just tedious work with tired people who make the film, including the porn stars. Very few are actually enjoying what they are doing...it is just work.

[why me]

It would be interesting to compare the prevalence and rates of porn addiction in the US vs Europe.  

 

It is unfortunate that people feel shame for viewing porn as that does reinforces the problem.  However, some level of guilt is absolutely essential in changing behaviors.  In other words, the best solution is not to pretend like porn is not evil, but instead to love ourselves, families and friends through the behavior.  

 

The Danish and Swedish solution to shame is to call evil good (or at least neutral according to you), that will not work for me and my spiritual well-being.  That is NOT the right solution.  

Most studies have more to do with how porn influences sexual behavior and expectations and not with feelings of guilt or shame since most european societies are extremely secular. Here is an exampe:

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-6712.2006.00417.x/abstract

 

Read the abstract. Now I do know that girls feel the 'pain' of boys watching porn since the boys think that sex is one big porn scene. Not good for the girls at all. Boys tend to have crazy expectations because of what they see in porn segments from the internet. But shame does not play a role in most cases.

 

This is also true for sexual behavior with young men in college. How often have we heard of rapes on college campuses? Quite often, especially during drunken parties. And yet, there are porn companies that cater to this type of porn: drunken sex parties. I believe that such porn does have an effect on young men.

Edited March 31, 2015 by why me

[pogi]

And this is why the best cure is to see a porn movie being made.

 

You clearly don't understand the nature of addiction. 

 

If you show the makings of a porn movie in a 12 step program, you are going to be triggering a lot of relapse.  That is like telling an alcoholic that the best cure is to go to a brewery and watch it being made.  "See, when you break it all down its just barley, hops, yeast and water, not so tempting now is it?"

[pogi]

Read the abstract. Now I do know that girls feel the 'pain' of boys watching porn since the boys think that sex is one big porn scene. Not good for the girls at all. Boys tend to have crazy expectations because of what they see in porn segments from the internet. But shame does not play a role in most cases.

 

 

Maybe I'm not making myself clear.  They don't need to feel shame for watching porn to be addicted to it.  It is the unrelated and often unconscious belief that they are mistakes, unloveable, etc. that causes emotional, spiritual, and or physical isolation which leads to unhealthy coping mechanisms - porn.  They could be addicted and not even know it because society doesn't view it as a problem and they never try to stop.  They may think that because they only view it once or twice a month it is not a problem.  They will never know if it is a problem until they are faced with choosing between more important things in their life and porn.   Because they are a more secular society, they will probably never be faced with that decision and will remain comfortably numb.    

Edited March 31, 2015 by pogi

[Calm]

You clearly don't understand the nature of addiction. 

 

If you show the makings of a porn movie in a 12 step program, you are going to be triggering a lot of relapse.  That is like telling an alcoholic that the best cure is to go to a brewery and watch it being made.  "See, when you break it all down its just barley, hops, yeast and water, not so tempting now is it?"

If such worked, all farmers and ranchers would likely be vegetarian.  

[Ahab]

Why would it matter if someone who kicked the habit was a high profile member? What matters is that they kicked the habit, whatever his or her profile or how popular they are. At least that's what matters if you want to kick the habit.

I indulged in the habit for years and honestly all I want to do is forget about it. It's not love. It's not good. It isn't worth thinking about or talking about or paying any attention to and every time I see the subject come up I wish the people who are talking about it would just talk about something else, and not another specific sin but generally just how to avoid and get rid of any sin. Just leave it behind. Stop talking and thinking about it.

There are plenty of good things to think about without having to think and talk about something that is bad. Let virtue garnish your thoughts. Clothe the naked.

[RegularMormon]

Why would it matter if someone who kicked the habit was a high profile member? What matters is that they kicked the habit, whatever his or her profile or how popular they are. At least that's what matters if you want to kick the habit.

I indulged in the habit for years and honestly all I want to do is forget about it. It's not love. It's not good. It isn't worth thinking about or talking about or paying any attention to and every time I see the subject come up I wish the people who are talking about it would just talk about something else, and not another specific sin but generally just how to avoid and get rid of any sin. Just leave it behind. Stop talking and thinking about it.

There are plenty of good things to think about without having to think and talk about something that is bad. Let virtue garnish your thoughts. Clothe the naked.

 

 

I agree 100% whatever means necessary to overcoming is the goal!  My OP and opinion is suggesting however there won't be any meaningful discussion or members willing to come forward and face the humiliation until 'leaders' lead by example and give a 'show' of ..."hey I did it and look where I'm at now....you can too".   Youth will continue to hide it; adults will continue to act like it's not a problem in their household.  IMHO we need to see more leadership leading the charge of "I was in this position and this is what I did...." and extend a arm out to help others.  

 

My former Bishop smoked all his life.  In fact, he was called to be Bishop during the time he was trying to quit.  There was so many who he was able to reach out to and lovely assist in their addictions because he was in their shoes and freely shared his bad habits without the fear of embarrassment.  That's where I'd like to see us get to; the point where we can honestly admit where we're at in our 'porn-related bad habits' and offer extending hands to each other.

[pogi]

I indulged in the habit for years and honestly all I want to do is forget about it. It's not love. It's not good. It isn't worth thinking about or talking about or paying any attention to and every time I see the subject come up I wish the people who are talking about it would just talk about something else, and not another specific sin but generally just how to avoid and get rid of any sin. Just leave it behind. Stop talking and thinking about it.

There are plenty of good things to think about without having to think and talk about something that is bad. Let virtue garnish your thoughts. Clothe the naked.

 

Might I suggest that there are others out there and in here who are probably still struggling and could use your support by talking about it.

 

That is the opposite of what needs to happen.  We NEED to talk about it, acknowledge it, examine it, give and receive support for it, remove the stigma that makes people like you uncomfortable.  There is no need to feel uncomfortable about it, we are not encouraging bad behavior, but supporting good behavior.  In other words we are not talking or thinking about "bad things" when we are talking about addiction recovery.  We need to stop avoiding it, pretending like it will just go away if we simply "stop thinking about it".  Avoiding the issue will only make it stronger. 

 

My family growing up was very much like the system you suggest and encourage - a closed family system.   We simply did not and could not talk about such things.  That only acted to deepen the shame of it, making the problem worse.  If my parents could have assured me that while pornography is wrong, such curiosity is completely healthy and normal, that I am not a bad person for being sexually attracted to the opposite sex, that it is ok to be tempted and that we are not expected to be perfect but will make mistakes and can easily be forgiven, perhaps my road to recovery could have been shortened significantly.  

 

Also, it is incredibly helpful to know that you are not alone. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by pogi

[omni]

Ironic that if one gets paid to have sex in private they are committing an illegal act, however if they broadcast it for the world to see than it not only becomes legal, but completely acceptable.

[cinepro]

Ironic that if one gets paid to have sex in private they are committing an illegal act, however if they broadcast it for the world to see than it not only becomes legal, but completely acceptable.

 

Filming pornography is only legal in a few places (and prostitution is legal in a few places), but in general I think it's based on the idea that "pornography" is a form of speech (and therefore protected by the First Amendment), whereas private sex for hire isn't. 

 

It's more legalistic than ironic.

[Calm]

I believe that many fear talk will put too much focus on the negative and take attention from the positive which is needed for growth...as when all a person can talk about is how he or she was victimised and chooses to let that part of life defined who they are.

My husband's family was like Pogi's (if I understand him correctly) and never dealt with the negative. Kids were left on their own to figure things out as well as feeling guilty that they were different in that they knew they had problems but didn't see it as well in others in their family, they developed fears that if their family really knew what they were like, they wouldn't be loved.  Otoh, in my family we interacted by dealing with problems. Only the negative got real attention, if we were doing well we were generally ignored because others needed the attention or else their problems might overwhelm them (or at least that seemed to be the understanding of our parents).  Eventually focusing on problems became a habit whether or not the problems really needed to be discussed at family gatherings or not.

Each approach has resulted in limiting their children's ability to fully engage life and has made it harder to deal with the ups and downs like adults. I think all of us are moving in the right direction, but there has been a lot of unnecessary suffering...still our parents did the best they could learning from what their parents did right and wrong.

We are hoping to hit a happier medium.

We are the ones that need to make the change if you want others or a whole culture to grow more Zionlike. If you see a need for openness, be open...as open as you can be. You will shock people, but if you dont use openness as a form of manipulation and don't take offense and shutdown when others take your willingness to be vulnerable and use it against you (there will always be someone doing this, but that doesn't mean everyone does it), people around you will start being more open with you...and others and the ripples spreads.

Doing it works much better than just hoping someone else will take up the cause. Become the leader that you would like to see leading.

Edited April 1, 2015 by calmoriah

[tietjens]

I'm new to thread and new to site. My two bits —

 

I'm an addict. It's easier to say what I'm not addicted to than I am. I am not addicted to gaming and likely never will be. But drugs, alcohol, sex.......I'm addicted to all of it, but I am in recovery and have been for 10 years now.

 

I believe in the church, the BOM but I am not active in the church. I would like to become active sometime in future again but I am not active now. Why aren't I active? I never really thought this through until recently, and then I read posting by tacenda the link she provided. Link is

 

https://mormonsexuality.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/shame-vs-guilt-and-the-pornography-problem/

 

And a quote from this link like smacked me over the head. It is

 

 

“‘My main concern within the LDS culture has to do with us giving [pornography] much more power than it deserves.’  I’d like to hear more on this too. I, and others, have experienced porn use completely disappear as soon as we allow ourselves to believe that the LDS cultural perspective on all things sex is warped, especially when it comes to proper sexual outlets.”

 

That's me. I had to leave church activity to get well, specifically I had to silence those voices that kept telling me what a terrible person I was. I didn't reason this thru at the time but I think this is what I did. The last conference I watched many years ago I heard a church leader, one of the 12 I think, say that breaking law of chastity was "like crucifying Christ anew". How's that for a shame inducer?

 

And shame, whether you are a druggie, a drinker, a serial womanizer or porn-looker, shame is at the bottom of it. I don't care how much money yu make or what kind of education you have or what your job is-----if you are an addict you are ashamed, in the deepest most secret part of your soul you are ashamed. And the church, totally unwittingly and despite the best intentions of its leaders can really feed that shame, in fact it's like squirting lighter fluid on a fire, some of the talks you hear, especially about porn, how bad it is, it is next to murder, etc., etc.

 

I left to escape from all of that. I really just fled----and then I started to get better, little by little. I have shut out those voices and now I think I could come because I love the church and I love god and I believe in Joseph Smith, and I think I am old enough and mature enough that I could shut out the voices that used to send me spiralling into shame and self loathing which led to more drug use and more alcohol and more sex, never filling the hole inside of me.

 

Anyway, that's all I have to say. Thanks for listening.

[Bernard Gui]

It's difficult to soft-pedal pornography and its associated behaviors when we have the Savior's own words reiterated in all four Standard Works and by many modern prophets:

D&C 63:16 And verily I say unto you, as I have said before, he that looketh on a woman to lust after her, or if any shall commit adultery in their hearts, they shall not have the Spirit, but shall deny the faith and shall fear.

We also make solemn covenants to cleave unto our spouse and none else, and when we view pornography we are cleaving unto someone else.

We can try to ameliorate the guilt and shame, but they follow just as naturally as floods follow heavy rain. Hopefully the discomfort leads to repentance. Through the Atonement that which was broken most certainly can be made whole again.

[BlueDreams]

I think you are spot on in regard to shame.  One of the biggest light-bulb moments in understanding the root causes of my addiction came from reading John Bradshaw's Healing the Shame that Binds You.  Far too often we judge ourselves instead of the behavior - "I am bad" vs "I did bad."  This kind of shame-based approach is detrimental and reinforces bad behavior.

 

In regards to addiction vs bad habit, where does one end and the other begin?  To me, they are essentially the same problem at opposite ends of the spectrum.  They are essentially the same organism where one is simply more developed than the other.  One is a sprout and the other is a tree, but they are both the mighty red wood.  To me, the only difference between a bad habit and an addiction is how shame-based the individual is.  That is what will determine the level of severity of a bad habit.  It is the higher degrees of shame that cause the co-morbidities and severity of addiction to become evident.

 

Yes, shame has an effect in several fields....and I've watched it effect people differently, particularly in therapy. It's been interesting to watch and be apart of.

 

As to the spectrum of addiction v. bad habit, I'm not sure. It's probably one of the reasons sex addictions/porn addictions are not actually recognized in the DSM. But I do think there's a difference. To me there are a number of other differences between an addiction and a bad habit than just shame. Shame is a heavy piece in many forms of addiction....but it's only a piece.While in my program I've never fully gotten onto the shame band wagon, probably because....though shame is definitely apart of my life and shapes some of my choices, it's not the full picture...or even the driving force in my own narrative. I think it's something that as a concept resonates with a lot of people. But I've seen addictions that shame isn't the biggie. And I've seen porn use where the shame wasn't really about being a bad person, but about the indiscriminate view of it as sexual sin. For a number who grabbed hold of the addiction narrative, ironically, it somewhat fed into their shame....their belief that they were broken, set apart from the crowd, had uncontrollable urges that they could handle, etc.

 

 

I believe that the best treatment for bad habits (that you mention above) is the same for addiction (further signifying that we really are talking about the same beast) - to address the shame instead of simply trying to stop the behavior - and practice new coping mechanisms.  I agree with you that shame is the problem, however, I don't agree that we need to soften our language regarding the evil nature of pornography, we simply need to focus our language on the behavior and not on the individual participating in the behavior.  Again it is the "I am bad" vs. "I did bad."  One leads to toxic shame and bondage, the other leads to healthy guilt and healing.  We need to know that porn is evil, but we  need to learn to remove the stigma from the person and place it on the product.  In other words, we need to learn to judge our behaviors and not our person, and do the same with others - judge the behavior, not the person.  

 

 

 

The only other thing that I would like to comment on is the unique nature of porn addiction.  Unlike other addictions, It does not appear that the frequency of behavior is a good indication of the severity of the addiction or problem.  From attending groups for many years, there are some who only look at porn a couple times a month.  You would think that they don't have that bad a problem.  But when one was forced to choose between his marriage or his porn - he chose the twice a month porn and his wife left him which caused him great heart-break and remorse.   Unlike chocolate or doodling, which have no negative consequences when done in moderation, pornography is detrimental at any dose.  The detrimental consequences of porn on self and others, makes it a severely dangerous practice.  One puts their marriage, emotional and spiritual wellbeing at jeopardy with every viewing.  To knowingly and willfully take such risks repetitively, takes it out of the realm of mere bad-habit in my mind.  It is not dark chocolate, it really is poison and destroys families.  

 

I actually don't see it as all too unique to other behavioral addictions. I would also point out that frequency was only one of several factors that I noted that would help define porn addiction. Like most forms of disorders, you wouldn't have to have all of the symptoms for it to be an addiction....but you're going to have to have more than just one, IMO. My problem is that any recurrent porn use is often labeled as an addiction. It's just not so. But I honestly don't have a lot that I outright disagree with in your posts. The only point is that you're coming from it from someone who has seen, felt, and heard of porn use as an addiction....both in your personal life and through ARP (which I think is amazing as a program!). And frankly, that's in many ways how I also was first introduce to porn use: in the paradigm of an addiction. Though not my own "thorn in the flesh" I have had close friends and a brother struggle with this in terms of an addiction. I've watch the detrimental effect it's had on them....including further acting out and making rash sexual decisions, to severe depression and suicidal ideation, to leaving their faith, etc. I've watched them, in different ways, struggle to take care of it and heal. My one friend, who was really close, would call me to tell my when he'd had a slip for the accountability. I knew the pattern. And I'm not doubting it's a problem. It's a problem.

 

And I'm not saying that even on the level of bad habit, porn use in and of itself can have some nasty consequences. Particularly when introduced at a young age (pretty common nowadays). But it's still not the same. Using the redwood analogy....it's a lot easier to kill a newly borne sapling than a 150 ft tree...and if you take a chainsaw to the ground to remove that sapling it may do just as much harm to the environment as good to removing a problem. No porn is not the same as doodling. My doodles have no immediate effect on anyone. The porn industry, IMO, is largely exploitative of the workers. Porn, particularly with early introduction, can retard one's development and understanding or relational sex.  But it doesn't mean that everybody who has fairly regular use has an addiction and how we conceptualize it will effect that.

 

Even in your example of the poor man who couldn't give up porn for his marriage....I think of the cultural and interpersonal relational factors that probably played into that. For example, for many couples outside of the church, twice a month isn't that big of a deal. Some may watch it together. This wouldn't have ended the marriage. But my guess is that there were problems with hiding, lying, sneaking it, etc. This would effect the quality of the relationship. He may have avoided divulging info because how women in the church are taught about porn SUCKS so she may have "freaked out" and frankly had some small bit of trauma from the experience. This shoves it underground. When it's found she feels more and more detached and betrayed by her husband. He feels worse.....he's probably watched porn since his early teens and self-sooths with it, having underdeveloped coping tools to stress. The attachment between the wife is floundering....he feels lonely and isolated...and wala, porn comes back out, reasserting the cycle. Porn became the symobol for everything wrong in their marriage. 

 

But almost none of that probably would have happened without the context of a stigma. With the stigma gone, they may have still had problems, but not to the extent that they ended up having.

 

I am not saying that we should adopt a more worldly philosophy about porn, sexual gratification, and relational sex. That has its own set of problems that I see....for one, people are less certain about what's "okay" in their sexual relationships. They end up going on diverse paths, many of which by the time they're talking to me, really didn't want to go down on but didn't feel they could say no. But I do think we really really need to see more nuance, be more frank and open about that, and to work within a frame that does see the difference between a sapling and a tree. The more I've done therapy with people with sexual concerns/disorders (including porn use, addiction, sex addictions, etc) the more I've seen the importance for this. I don't know if I can fully explain why. But my opinion comes from this spot.

 

With luv,

BD 

Edited April 1, 2015 by BlueDreams

[why me]

Pornography has always been within the human species. One can find tableware from the ancient greeks, roman, chineses, japanese, etc, complete with sexual imaging. Now these are looked upon as works of art, but they were pornographic. And of course, in recent times we have the pornography of the victorian times and edwardian times. From the first moment when film was invented, pornography was formed. This is nothing new. What has changed is the availability of it. Back in the seventies, one went to a porn cinema to see the porn movie. Or if one had  8mm film projector one could see it in the home. But it was still clumsy. But with the invention of the VHS, porn was in the home in a major way. In fact, I can say that porn made the VHS industry. But havirg porn in the home now posed a major change in porn consumption. And this is when the church took notice. And then came the dvd, a more slick and slender form of technology and suddenly more and more people were buying it for home use. One can say that porn invented the dvd because without porn, the dvd may not have been successful. Then the ipad came etc. More and more people are watching porn and in fact, we see a general pornification of society. Porn has made tremendous inroads into general advertising. This is called the pornification of society. And sex and sexuality is a major part of TV shows. So, has society becomes more body commodified with sexual imaging, more and more people are drawn to porn. It is a vicious cycle.

 

To cure the porn problem, one must begin to decommidify society by  taking away all sexual imaging that one can find on the covers of men's and women's magazines. Not to mention the sex articles that are inside and 'hunk' imaging and 'babe' imaging.

 

In other words, one must take away the motive.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/9817376/Children-damaged-by-pornification-of-British-society-says-Diane-Abbott.html

 

This is about children but such sexualization is throughout society affecting most people.

 

This thread is rather shallow when it comes to porn. It is not addressing the root problem. But I am trying....

Edited April 1, 2015 by why me

[Tacenda]

It would be interesting to compare the prevalence and rates of porn addiction in the US vs Europe.

It is unfortunate that people feel shame for viewing porn as that does reinforces the problem. However, some level of guilt is absolutely essential in changing behaviors. In other words, the best solution is not to pretend like porn is not evil, but instead to love ourselves, families and friends through the behavior.

The Danish and Swedish solution to shame is to call evil good (or at least neutral according to you), that will not work for me and my spiritual well-being. That is NOT the right solution.

I agree with you that we shouldn't condone it. I think the problem can start when a spouse is caught watching it and then gets accused that they are addicted and time to call the bishop.

I think the spouse or parent, may take it to a new level and make the situation worse. Or maybe there is something to worry about. But they shouldn't jump to that conclusion until they know.

In my ward our male Primary chorister is serving a service mission at home by helping those with these addictions. He talks about it quite a bit, and nearly cries everytime. It definitely is a tough situation, but can be overcome or can be helped.

ETA: Re-read your post, need to add that this guy in my ward talks like there's lots of compassion and love, so not the shame game.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Tacenda

[VideoGameJunkie]

I used to have a porn problem in my teens and early 20s. It was out of loneliness and the satisfaction and pleasure of seeing the beauty and art of a good looking naked woman. When I finally conquered it and had no more desire to look at porn, it was one of my greatest life accomplishments. I know how men can become addicted. Especially Mormon men who have to wait until marriage to do anything sexual.

[why me]

 I know how men can become addicted. Especially Mormon men who have to wait until marriage to do anything sexual.

I don't think that this has much to do with it. Sex sells. Back in the 1920s there were many of boys sneaking a peak at clara bow photos or mae west photos. It is natural for humans to be interested in sexuality. It is normal. Since sex sells, sexuality is all around us. Styles are much more revealing for both men and women. And sex is everywhere....just look at Kim Kardashian, whose rise to fame was a home made porn flick. Since sexuality is all around us and since society is more pornified, porn is quite an attractive way to get some release. Also, if one interviews a porn producer they will all tell you the same thing: porn is a about fantasy sex, a kind of sex that is hard to match in an actual sexual relationship. And this is one reason that porn has such a draw: it plays to men and to women fantasies: sex without getting tired, quick arousal, and no guilt and no emotion. Just the act itself with beautiful made up women and hunky men. But as we can see from the link that I provided about porn stars without makeup, these actors are just like anyone else, with all the bagage of being human. Fantasy over.

Edited April 1, 2015 by why me

[Kevin Christensen]

Bradshaw, in Healing the Shame that Binds You, distinguishes between toxic shame and healthy shame. Toxic shame says, "I am defective, I am mistake."

Healthy shame says, "I am human, I make mistakes, and therefore, I need to have healthy boundaries." Bradshaw claims that healthy shame should be the foundation of our spirituality.

I've got a DVD called Pleasure Unwoven: The Science of Addiction. It uses the landscapes of Southern Utah to explain the workings of the brain in addiction. It turns out that all addictions use the same neural pathways, and cause the same kinds of brain damage.

The domaine receptors in the mid-brain enlarge, increasing craving, essentially having been tricked into treating the addictive behavior as equivalent to survival. Hence, the craving.

And on the otherside of the neural pathway, in the cerebral cortex, parts of the brain shrink, trying to correct the increased demand for dopamine in a way that reduces judgement.

I show it to everyone I work with. Addicts tend to think, "This the way I am." A proper diagnosis reveals that this is not the way you are, but something that you have got. Recovery reveals who you are, where addiction has been wearing you like a mask.

Rather than argue about whether or not the diagnosis of addiction is shame inducing, I think people are better served by learning how to properly diagnose addiction.

Carnes has good information on this. Magness repeats this, and also asks, "Did you ever do anything that harmed your self or loved ones? And did you do it again?"

Codepedence is also an addiction, and it is about protecting people from the consequences of their own choices and avoiding healthy shame..

In The Recovery Zone, Carnes also talks about the grievance story, which is also a huge part of any addiction. Grievances nuture resentments and a consequent sense of entitlement.

Recovery always involves dismantling the grievance story. He also explains that the difference between heroes and villains is that heroes face their fears and villains nurture their grievances.

He bases this observation on Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces. And it's easy to find examples. Harry Potter and Voldemort. Thor and Loki are particularly clear.

As long as a person is focused on their grievances against other people, celebrating their victimhood, they cannot recover.

Pure knowledge enlarges the soul. It follows that impure knowledge contracts the soul. If other people's sins or mistakes or poor judgement or failure to measure up to an ideal is the focus, beams in one's own eye, are not.

How clear then, is our vision?

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited April 1, 2015 by Kevin Christensen

[BlueDreams]

Kevin, I generally agree with what you've mentioned and brought up about addiction and porn addiction in particular. My only concerns is that by focusing on porn addiction, we are only talking about 10-15% of the general population's experience with porn. If there are going to be a discussion of the repercussions, concerns, and overall lessons of those who are exposed to porn I don't think focusing solely on the narrative of addiction will necessarily be enough. And the addiction model may be inappropriate to give to a mixed audience of people who may or may not have and addiction or the loved ones who may or might not have a relationship with an addict.

 

That's my main concern. We, in the church in general, have a dichotomous view about pornography....either you're not using or you have an addiction and are trapped in cycles of terrible sin. And the spouses/loved ones of someone who viewed porn (but aren't addicts) aren't likely to be co-dependent. The middle area of experience (which is also the majority of experience) are lacking....and this does cause problems....both in how we react to porn use and how those who have used porn understand and change their behaviors.

 

ARP and addiction models are great....when there is an addiction. The ARP manual in general use can be good for just understanding the utility of the atonement. But I feel that focusing solely of porn within the realm of addiction is limiting.

 

With luv,

BD

[Calm]

I have shut out those voices and now I think I could come because I love the church and I love god and I believe in Joseph Smith, and I think I am old enough and mature enough that I could shut out the voices that used to send me spiralling into shame and self loathing which led to more drug use and more alcohol and more sex, never filling the hole inside of me.

 

The door is open whenever you want to take the next step (it seems to me you are saying you are ready to come back, that nothing is stopping you are your end, my apologies if I am wrong, I certainly don't want to add unnecessary pressure).