"The Oath" Movie

[smac97]

A few days ago my wife and I went to see "The Shift," which is a Christian-themed movie.  It was preceded by a trailer for another movie, "The Oath," which is apparently a "historical fiction" story based on the Book of Mormon.

I hadn't given the movie much thought until I saw a YouTube video by Darin Scott (f/k/a Darin Southam), the writer, director and star of the movie.  He has previously appeared in Latter-day Saint-themed films/shows, such as Witnesses, Joseph Smith: American Prophet, and a few others.

Darin published this video yesterday (December 6), and in it he essentially criticizes the Church for not supporting his movie:

Darin cites a number of instances where the Church has "supported" other efforts, such as Dan Reynolds' "Love Loud" concert and its allowing "The Chosen" to film on its Jerusalem set in Goshen, Utah.  He also brings up "Stake Lagoon Days," about which I know nothing.  He characterizes all of these as "for profit" ventures which received public "support" from the Church.

Anyway, watch the vid and then let me know your thoughts. 

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited December 7, 2023 by smac97

[The Nehor]

What a whiner!

Also this might be petty but using the General Conference ‘lilt’ when speaking made me shudder and referring to the people he was working with as “souls”. Buddy, calm down. Also acting like he has some right to Church attention is just silly. Acting like this is some personal insult is just weird.

Also you seriously named Moroni’s love interest Bathsheba? What?

[Rain]

Lagoon days are where Lagoon (an amusement park) sends out fliers with discounts to stakes in the Salt Lake area. I know of some stakes that announced and passed them out every year and some that never said a thing. It was a good way to go at a discount, but it always bothered me that it was promoting Lagoon. 

I think he might have stabbed himself in the foot with this. By doing a sour grapes video he is sharing that the church doesn't want to promote it which will likely turn off the very viewers who would most likely have watched and promoted it.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

Lagoon days are where Lagoon (an amusement park) sends out fliers with discounts to stakes in the Salt Lake area. I know of some stakes that announced and passed them out every year and some that never said a thing. It was a good way to go at a discount, but it always bothered me that it was promoting Lagoon. 

I think he might have stabbed himself in the foot with this. By doing a sour grapes video he is sharing that the church doesn't want to promote it which will likely turn off the very viewers who would most likely have watched and promoted it.

Lagoon, in ancient times, was the waters of Mormon, so it's OK.

[CV75]

5 hours ago, smac97 said:

A few days ago my wife and I went to see "The Shift," which is a Christian-themed movie.  It was preceded by a trailer for another movie, "The Oath," which is apparently a "historical fiction" story based on the Book of Mormon.

I hadn't given the movie much thought until I saw a YouTube video by Darin Scott (f/k/a Darin Southam), the writer, director and star of the movie.  He has previously appeared in Latter-day Saint-themed films/shows, such as Witnesses, Joseph Smith: American Prophet, and a few others.

Darin published this video yesterday (December 6), and in it he essentially criticizes the Church for not supporting his movie:

Darin cites a number of instances where the Church has "supported" other efforts, such as Dan Reynolds' "Love Loud" concert and its allowing "The Chosen" to film on its Jerusalem set in Goshen, Utah.  He also brings up "Stake Lagoon Days," about which I know nothing.  He characterizes all of these as "for profit" ventures which received public "support" from the Church.

Anyway, watch the vid and then let me know your thoughts. 

Thanks,

-Smac

And they say Hollywood is la-la-land?

[Pyreaux]

What if the Church just doesn't like the film? Is that possible?

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

n days are where Lagoon (an amusement park) sends out fliers with discounts to stakes in the Salt Lake area. I know of some stakes that announced and passed them out every year and some that never said a thing. It was a good way to go at a discount, but it always bothered me that it was promoting Lagoon. 

Yikes 

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

working with as “souls”. Buddy, calm down

Thank you

 

Im not a fan

[Tacenda]

The only thing I think is happening is that it might be too close to the church, or personal. They are about the accuracy of the film perhaps. Or they don't know which parts are historical and which aren't, a guess. The BoM is a mystery in every way, even some that say it was a 19th century author writing it. Maybe the church wants to keep it a mystery. They don't want the controversy that might come about because of it. Or maybe they want the church to be the creator of the film, to show a stamp of approval perhaps. 

I don't mind the guy being a little miffed about it though. Or can't make fun of the poor dude. Especially the quote by one of the church leaders saying a BoM movie should be at the box offices. Something like that, I'd have to go back through to find it on the video.

I thought he gave good examples for why he's speaking out. But the scenes shown, may be a little too PG13 for the youth. And maybe too violent, since the BoM is that. So I do see the side the church has on it.   

[Rain]

9 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The only thing I think is happening is that it might be too close to the church, or personal. They are about the accuracy of the film perhaps. Or they don't know which parts are historical and which aren't, a guess. The BoM is a mystery in every way, even some that say it was a 19th century author writing it. Maybe the church wants to keep it a mystery. They don't want the controversy that might come about because of it. Or maybe they want the church to be the creator of the film, to show a stamp of approval perhaps. 

I don't mind the guy being a little miffed about it though. Or can't make fun of the poor dude. Especially the quote by one of the church leaders saying a BoM movie should be at the box offices. Something like that, I'd have to go back through to find it on the video.

I thought he gave good examples for why he's speaking out. But the scenes shown, may be a little too PG13 for the youth. And maybe too violent, since the BoM is that. So I do see the side the church has on it.   

The Chosen might be similar. The others not so much.  The concert was a charity for those in the margins.  The ads in the Book of Mormon musical were counteracting the negativity and going towards missionary work.

[JAHS]

I remember stake lagoon day. The stake would reserve one of the pavilions where everyone would meet for lunch and they had a raffle. I won a baseball mitt at one of those.⚾

[rpn]

He's been working on this a long time and it is the first Book of Mormon placed and community focused film.   I don't know what the church could do to support it without endorsing it.  (The version that has been released includes a not in the Book of Mormon story line which did not appear in the first iteractions when he was seeking official  support (though I don't know the details.)  Today at Thanksgiving Point is the premier.   I hope it gets to my town where I plan to buy tickets for others (though I'm not 100% comfortable about the off point story line, even as I realize that how Mormon survived and what he did in addition to compiling scriptures has to be speculation).   

I hear his frustration.  I hope we don't amplify it in this forum or criticize his efforts to do something good and noble.

[Raingirl]

I don’t understand why he thinks he deserves funding from the church.  He made a choice to make a movie. He chose the subject.  How does that entitle him to anything from anyone?  He sounds whiny, and I’m wondering just what his agenda is. Is it just about money or something else?  Frankly, after listening to him, I have zero interest in watching his movie. 

[pogi]

Nathan Wayne Entrekin puts this Captain Moroni to shame.   I hope he makes a cameo. 

[teddyaware]

7 hours ago, smac97 said:

A few days ago my wife and I went to see "The Shift," which is a Christian-themed movie.  It was preceded by a trailer for another movie, "The Oath," which is apparently a "historical fiction" story based on the Book of Mormon.

I hadn't given the movie much thought until I saw a YouTube video by Darin Scott (f/k/a Darin Southam), the writer, director and star of the movie.  He has previously appeared in Latter-day Saint-themed films/shows, such as Witnesses, Joseph Smith: American Prophet, and a few others.

Darin published this video yesterday (December 6), and in it he essentially criticizes the Church for not supporting his movie:

Darin cites a number of instances where the Church has "supported" other efforts, such as Dan Reynolds' "Love Loud" concert and its allowing "The Chosen" to film on its Jerusalem set in Goshen, Utah.  He also brings up "Stake Lagoon Days," about which I know nothing.  He characterizes all of these as "for profit" ventures which received public "support" from the Church.

Anyway, watch the vid and then let me know your thoughts. 

Thanks,

-Smac

Here’s the problem: Darin Scott’s original Book of Mormon movie project was titled, “Reign of Judges, Title of Liberty,” which was going to be a dramatization of the Book of Alma’s historic account of the exploits of the heroic General Moroni. Scott’s original  concept was that his movie was going to an epic drama in the vein of ‘The Ten Commandments’ and ‘Ben Hur,’ complete with spectacular battle scenes featuring “hosts of thousands.” But in spite his best efforts Scott failed to raise the funds required for such an ambitious and extremely costly project. This lack of funding and support for his rather unrealistic ‘Lord of the Rings’ type undertaking led Scott to opt for a “plan b,” a far less ambitious work called “The Oath,” a story that speculates about the kinds of things that might have happened when the prophet Moroni (not to be confused with the aforementioned General Moroni) was about to bury the Book of Mormon plates in obedience to the sacred oath he made to his God and to his father Mormon.

Now that the release of the movie is down to the wire (it opens in theaters tomorrow) it’s obvious that Scott is extremely anxious about the much hoped for potential success of his project, hence his earnest video appeal for the church’s endorsement. But, in reality, I don’t believe even Darin Scott believes this late in the game appeal to the church for approval will work, but I believe he is hoping his appeal will generate some much needed publicity and public curiously about his film as it’s poised to open.

So then, why hasn’t the church officially endorsed this motion picture, a tremendous effort into which Darin Scott has poured out his heart and soul for years in the hope of generating some positive general interest in the Book of Mormon? The likely answer is twofold: 1) The film is a work  of fiction that doesn’t accurately adhere to the Book of Mormon narrative. As a consequence, I can already hear church critics bellowing that ‘The Oath’ is nothing more than a work of historical fiction piled on top of another ‘work of fiction.” 2) The church is concerned that an endorsement of the film could trigger a lot of unwanted controversy within the church, and this due to the fact that the film’s setting appears to embrace the Heartland Model for the location of the Book of Mormon lands. And with so many influential church intellectuals being wedded to a “south of the border” setting for the Book of Mormon, a church endorsement of the film might be construed to be a subtle “thumbs up” in favor of the Heartland Model, thus causing much unwanted controversy and outrage within a church that is already beginning to become factionalized. And from the look of things, it appears that Scott hasn’t considered these reasonable reasons why the church is steering clear of an endorsement for his film.

Edited December 7, 2023 by teddyaware

[LoudmouthMormon]

9 hours ago, smac97 said:

Anyway, watch the vid and then let me know your thoughts. 

What a whiny whinerface.  Over the decades, I've heard endless sad artistic/creative types complaining loudly about how their work isn't understood/supported/bought by people.  Most of them are teen girls upset they can't make enough selling commissions on DeviantArt to buy a new art tablet.  This guy sounds exactly like them.  

Just watching his comments on the trailer, and this video, turn me off.  I won't have anything to do with this movie, other than maybe watch it if it ends up on some free streaming platform.  At this point, I'd rather go watch Johnny Lingo on loop 10 times without any bathroom breaks. 

What an absolute turn-off.  Reminds me of your crazy uncle that believes the illuminati is out to get him.  That, and the whiny young girls.  At the same time.   Just ew.

Anyway, Smac didn't ask to know my brief thoughts, just my thoughts.  So there y'all go.  

Edited December 7, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

I remember stake lagoon day. The stake would reserve one of the pavilions where everyone would meet for lunch and they had a raffle. I won a baseball mitt at one of those.⚾

Those were the days, we probably even walked through the back gate, haha! 

[Teancum]

9 hours ago, smac97 said:

A few days ago my wife and I went to see "The Shift," which is a Christian-themed movie.  It was preceded by a trailer for another movie, "The Oath," which is apparently a "historical fiction" story based on the Book of Mormon.

I hadn't given the movie much thought until I saw a YouTube video by Darin Scott (f/k/a Darin Southam), the writer, director and star of the movie.  He has previously appeared in Latter-day Saint-themed films/shows, such as Witnesses, Joseph Smith: American Prophet, and a few others.

Darin published this video yesterday (December 6), and in it he essentially criticizes the Church for not supporting his movie:

Darin cites a number of instances where the Church has "supported" other efforts, such as Dan Reynolds' "Love Loud" concert and its allowing "The Chosen" to film on its Jerusalem set in Goshen, Utah.  He also brings up "Stake Lagoon Days," about which I know nothing.  He characterizes all of these as "for profit" ventures which received public "support" from the Church.

Anyway, watch the vid and then let me know your thoughts. 

Thanks,

-Smac

Why is the church obliged to endorse his venture?  Sheesh.  And how does a public video complaining  help him?  Did the church support Dan Peterson's Witnesses movie?

[bluebell]

I can see that the SLC trib did an article on this movie and the title says that the some latter-day saint scholars are concerned....  But the rest is behind a paywall so I can't read any more.  Could someone here with access to the article read it and let us know what the scholars are worried about?  Their concerns could be one reason the church doesn't want to vocally connect itself to the film.

I've watched about half of the guy's plea video and while I feel for him a great deal I don't think what he's doing is a good answer.  You can tell the movie means a lot to him and that he's genuinely hurt by the church's failure to acknowledge the movie and his efforts.  Sometimes hurt and anger makes us do dumb stuff and I think that video qualifies as an example of that.

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, CV75 said:

And they say Hollywood is la-la-land?

Don't worry.

You will never catch up, thank God 🥰

 

[ksfisher]

31 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I can see that the SLC trib did an article on this movie and the title says that the some latter-day saint scholars are concerned....  But the rest is behind a paywall so I can't read any more.  Could someone here with access to the article read it and let us know what the scholars are worried about?  Their concerns could be one reason the church doesn't want to vocally connect itself to the film.

I've watched about half of the guy's plea video and while I feel for him a great deal I don't think what he's doing is a good answer.  You can tell the movie means a lot to him and that he's genuinely hurt by the church's failure to acknowledge the movie and his efforts.  Sometimes hurt and anger makes us do dumb stuff and I think that video qualifies as an example of that.

"The film begins with a moody shot of a tree-canopied shoreline, then: “Legend tells of an ancient grudge.”

What follows is a 100-plus-minute romance between the Nephite warrior-prophet Moroni of Book of Mormon fame and a woman, played by part-Choctaw actress Nora Dale, from an enemy group known as the Lamanites. Written and directed by the Latter-day Saint actor Darin Scott, who stars as the film’s hero, “The Oath” will hit more than 650 theaters nationwide Dec. 8.

For Scott, the project, more than a decade in the making, represents a sacred work, one that demanded nearly everything — including, at one point, his house — from him.

For some scholars, who haven’t seen the movie but have viewed the trailer and read a plot summary, the resulting story is a mashup of modern conservative politics and tired stereotypes about Native Americans. The outcome isn’t just predictable, they say, but a perpetuation of racist tropes."

"Instead of big-budget battle scenes, the movie depicts the Moroni found in the scripture’s final pages, an army general and the last surviving Nephite, offering shelter to and ultimately marrying a battered woman he finds injured in the woods. Named Bathsheba, she is a runaway from Moroni’s greatest enemy, an evil king played by the actor Billy Zane.

Along the way, Moroni teaches Bathsheba his language, how to dress more conservatively and — after her failed attempt to seduce him — the importance of chastity. She converts to Moroni’s Christian faith and, after their marriage, becomes pregnant."

 

[ksfisher]

19 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

"The film begins with a moody shot of a tree-canopied shoreline, then: “Legend tells of an ancient grudge.”

 

What follows is a 100-plus-minute romance between the Nephite warrior-prophet Moroni of Book of Mormon fame and a woman, played by part-Choctaw actress Nora Dale, from an enemy group known as the Lamanites. Written and directed by the Latter-day Saint actor Darin Scott, who stars as the film’s hero, “The Oath” will hit more than 650 theaters nationwide Dec. 8.

 

For Scott, the project, more than a decade in the making, represents a sacred work, one that demanded nearly everything — including, at one point, his house — from him.

 

For some scholars, who haven’t seen the movie but have viewed the trailer and read a plot summary, the resulting story is a mashup of modern conservative politics and tired stereotypes about Native Americans. The outcome isn’t just predictable, they say, but a perpetuation of racist tropes."

 

 

"Instead of big-budget battle scenes, the movie depicts the Moroni found in the scripture’s final pages, an army general and the last surviving Nephite, offering shelter to and ultimately marrying a battered woman he finds injured in the woods. Named Bathsheba, she is a runaway from Moroni’s greatest enemy, an evil king played by the actor Billy Zane.

 

Along the way, Moroni teaches Bathsheba his language, how to dress more conservatively and — after her failed attempt to seduce him — the importance of chastity. She converts to Moroni’s Christian faith and, after their marriage, becomes pregnant."

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like something to pass on.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

"The film begins with a moody shot of a tree-canopied shoreline, then: “Legend tells of an ancient grudge.”

 

What follows is a 100-plus-minute romance between the Nephite warrior-prophet Moroni of Book of Mormon fame and a woman, played by part-Choctaw actress Nora Dale, from an enemy group known as the Lamanites. Written and directed by the Latter-day Saint actor Darin Scott, who stars as the film’s hero, “The Oath” will hit more than 650 theaters nationwide Dec. 8.

 

For Scott, the project, more than a decade in the making, represents a sacred work, one that demanded nearly everything — including, at one point, his house — from him.

 

For some scholars, who haven’t seen the movie but have viewed the trailer and read a plot summary, the resulting story is a mashup of modern conservative politics and tired stereotypes about Native Americans. The outcome isn’t just predictable, they say, but a perpetuation of racist tropes."

 

 

"Instead of big-budget battle scenes, the movie depicts the Moroni found in the scripture’s final pages, an army general and the last surviving Nephite, offering shelter to and ultimately marrying a battered woman he finds injured in the woods. Named Bathsheba, she is a runaway from Moroni’s greatest enemy, an evil king played by the actor Billy Zane.

 

Along the way, Moroni teaches Bathsheba his language, how to dress more conservatively and — after her failed attempt to seduce him — the importance of chastity. She converts to Moroni’s Christian faith and, after their marriage, becomes pregnant."

A white savior story about redeeming a heathen whore? This is the Church’s big break that they are missing out on? LOL

*In a bar in Utah*

Patron: Wow, that Book of Mormon musical was really racist. At least it was opposed to the Church. Can you imagine if a member of the church put out a production filled with racist tropes like that?

Darin Scott: Hold my non-alcoholic beer.

[Buckeye]

7 hours ago, Rain said:

Lagoon days are where Lagoon (an amusement park) sends out fliers with discounts to stakes in the Salt Lake area. I know of some stakes that announced and passed them out every year and some that never said a thing. It was a good way to go at a discount, but it always bothered me that it was promoting Lagoon. 

I think he might have stabbed himself in the foot with this. By doing a sour grapes video he is sharing that the church doesn't want to promote it which will likely turn off the very viewers who would most likely have watched and promoted it.

I’ve lived in a few cities where sports teams - most often baseball - will have a ‘Mormon night’.  I’ve seen mild support and announcements on the ward level for those - basically flyers in the foyer and maybe one pulpit announcement. Nothing heavy handed. 

As for The Oath, my guess (pure speculation) is the church is hesitant to support an artistic take on the BoM because, as with all art, it’s subjective and may include inaccuracies. The church does its own videos of BoM scenes. Perhaps there was something concerning here in this work. 
 

Did the church ever come out in support of the animated scripture series? I don’t think so but I know lots of members who bought those (sometimes under undue pressure from sales guy) 

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

A white savior story about redeeming a heathen whore? This is the Church’s big break that they are missing out on? LOL

*In a bar in Utah*

Patron: Wow, that Book of Mormon musical was really racist. At least it was opposed to the Church. Can you imagine if a member of the church put out a production filled with racist tropes like that?

Darin Scott: Hold my non-alcoholic beer.

The idea of Billy Zane playing an evil king does have it's appeal.

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Here’s the problem: Darin Scott’s original Book of Mormon movie project was titled, “Reign of Judges, Title of Liberty,” which was going to be a dramatization of the Book of Alma’s historic account of the exploits of the heroic General Moroni. Scott’s original  concept was that his movie was going to an epic drama in the vein of ‘The Ten Commandments’ and ‘Ben Hur,’ complete with spectacular battle scenes featuring “hosts of thousands.” But in spite his best efforts Scott failed to raise the funds required for such an ambitious and extremely costly project. This lack of funding and support for his rather unrealistic ‘Lord of the Rings’ type undertaking led Scott to opt for a “plan b,” a far less ambitious work called “The Oath,” a story that speculates about the kinds of things that might have happened when the prophet Moroni (not to be confused with the aforementioned General Moroni) was about to bury the Book of Mormon plates in obedience to the sacred oath he made to his God and to his father Mormon.

Now that the release of the movie is down to the wire (it opens in theaters tomorrow) it’s obvious that Scott is extremely anxious about the much hoped for potential success of his project, hence his earnest video appeal for the church’s endorsement. But, in reality, I don’t believe even Darin Scott believes this late in the game appeal to the church for approval will work, but I believe he is hoping his appeal will generate some much needed publicity and public curiously about his film as it’s poised to open.

So then, why hasn’t the church officially endorsed this motion picture, a tremendous effort into which Darin Scott has poured out his heart and soul for years in the hope of generating some positive general interest in the Book of Mormon? The likely answer is twofold: 1) The film is a work  of fiction that doesn’t accurately adhere to the Book of Mormon narrative. As a consequence, I can already hear church critics bellowing that ‘The Oath’ is nothing more than a work of historical fiction piled on top of another ‘work of fiction.” 2) The church is concerned that an endorsement of the film could trigger a lot of unwanted controversy within the church, and this due to the fact that the film’s setting appears to embrace the Heartland Model for the location of the Book of Mormon lands. And with so many influential church intellectuals being wedded to a “south of the border” setting for the Book of Mormon, a church endorsement of the film might be construed to be a subtle “thumbs up” in favor of the Heartland Model, thus causing much unwanted controversy and outrage within a church that is already beginning to become factionalized. And from the look of things, it appears that Scott hasn’t considered these reasonable reasons why the church is steering clear of an endorsement for his film.

He is scheduled to speak at a Firm Foundation Book of Mormon Evidence Conference