"The Oath" Movie

[mfbukowski]

7 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I thought the movie was about a guy hiding from his enemies while falling in love with his enemies’ escaped concubine. 
 

I haven’t seen the movie, but I’ve seen trailers and reviews. What you say doesn’t match those. 
 

So does a labor of love supersede quality? He put his movie out there in 650 theaters. You need to think this through: if a poor quality film is held up by LDS members and/or church as what your church offers, then aren’t you turning off potential converts? Or at least misrepresenting LDS views?

Or maybe you think The Oath is what the LDS Church offers? 

 

It is not the church.

We can make our own films

It's Utah culture. I lived there 1 year and was not happy.

There. I said it.  😱

Edited December 11, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

On 12/10/2023 at 9:29 PM, mfbukowski said:

It is not the church.

We can make our own films

It's Utah culture. I lived there 1 year and was not happy.

There. I said it.  😱

Utah culture is not monolithic. I love some of it.  In many ways it is my favorite place I have ever lived (minus the weather from June to August).  Knowing so many people around me has given me a strong sense of belonging similar to how I felt quite at home in my ward in Canada, but it goes beyond that.  It is the first place I have lived where I am certain if I step outside or opened a window and started screaming for help quite a few people would not only be calling the police, but would be running over to help.  In Canada we had one or two neighbours I knew cared about their neighbours as opposed to Mapleton where half the people came to introduce themselves the first few days we moved in and others became friends within a few months rather than refusing to notice us when we are both outside or at most nodding their heads when I said hello.  That willingness to engage with neighbours here in Utah has always led me to feel safer and easier to commit to the local community among other things (and the sincere interest in neighbors has been in almost every place I have lived in Utah over the years (in the late 60s when living with my grandmother for a few months, the several places I lived when when I was a single student, the several places I lived as a married student minus one place we were in for a few months before we moved to BYU student housing, and then where we are now when we moved back to Utah 20 years ago).  In every other place I have lived in as a child and as an adult, connections were not made by adults coming over to introduce themselves (and I am not claiming my parents or me and my husband were any better), but by the kids getting to know each other and then some parents getting to know the family their kid is hanging out with.

The most helpful doctors we have had are in Utah.  So are the worst.

I am not fond of some of the weird political vibes.  Drivers aren’t that great either.  Their Asian restaurants are mediocre compared to Canada’s.  Fresh produce and fish, baked goods are limited in the stores from other places I have lived.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Calm

[teddyaware]

An in-depth interview with Darin Scott, the producer, director, and leading actor of “The Oath.” If there are any left who would still like to know what Darin Scott and his multi-year cinematic labor of love are really all about, this is for you. It’s obvious that Scott is a rare entity in today's debased motion picture culture — a man of creativity, intelligence, decency, wisdom, humility and honor.

 

[california boy]

The Oath took in $115,000 from 640 cinemas across the country durning it's first week.  That works out to about $180 per theater for the week.  That is less than $25 per screening.  I still think it won't be around for more than a couple of weeks.  Hope Darin Scott didn't borrow too much to get this thing made.  

Making films is a huge financial gamble, even for the big studios who have been doing this for over a century.

Edited December 23, 2023 by california boy

[JAHS]

51 minutes ago, california boy said:

The Oath took in $115,000 from 640 cinemas across the country durning it's first week.  That works out to about $180 per theater for the week.  That is less than $25 per screening.  I still think it won't be around for more than a couple of weeks.  Hope Darin Scott didn't borrow too much to get this thing made.  

Making films is a huge financial gamble, even for the big studios who have been doing this for over a century.

Maybe it will make more money when it goes to DVD. Excuse me, I mean streaming. 

[The Nehor]

35 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Maybe it will make more money when it goes to DVD. Excuse me, I mean streaming. 

I can’t see streaming services paying much for it.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

An in-depth interview with Darin Scott, the producer, director, and leading actor of “The Oath.” If there are any left who would still like to know what Darin Scott and his multi-year cinematic labor of love are really all about, this is for you. It’s obvious that Scott is a rare entity in today's debased motion picture culture — a man of creativity, intelligence, decency, wisdom, humility and honor.

 

I don’t think humility and honor when a guy starts railing against his own church for not directly supporting his commercial entertainment products.

When I read his intitial pitch for what he was going to create based on the resources he had intelligence and wisdom went out the door too.

I have no idea on decency and I haven’t seen the movie so am not sure on creativity but based on the reviews I don’t think creativity is his strong suit.

Edited December 23, 2023 by The Nehor

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Maybe it will make more money when it goes to DVD. Excuse me, I mean streaming. 

What is this DVD you speak of?

[Millcreek]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:44 AM, bluebell said:

I can see that the SLC trib did an article on this movie and the title says that the some latter-day saint scholars are concerned....  But the rest is behind a paywall so I can't read any more.  Could someone here with access to the article read it and let us know what the scholars are worried about?  Their concerns could be one reason the church doesn't want to vocally connect itself to the film.

The complete article has been archived at Archive Today here >> Moroni comes to the big screen, but some LDS scholars see some big problems 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

What is this DVD you speak of?

Isn’t that what killed Betamax? I think I remember grandpa saying something about that.

[Raingirl]

7 hours ago, teddyaware said:

An in-depth interview with Darin Scott, the producer, director, and leading actor of “The Oath.” If there are any left who would still like to know what Darin Scott and his multi-year cinematic labor of love are really all about, this is for you. It’s obvious that Scott is a rare entity in today's debased motion picture culture — a man of creativity, intelligence, decency, wisdom, humility and honor.

 

Honor? A man who changed his name to hide his involvement with the January 6th attack on the Capital?

[morgan.deane]

3 hours ago, Millcreek said:

The complete article has been archived at Archive Today here >> Moroni comes to the big screen, but some LDS scholars see some big problems 

Thanks for linking to the article. I saved everyone the trouble and read it but kind of wished I didn't. The article didn't present anything beyond the typical nonsense that dominates academia. It was a casting call of unimpressive scholars in various gender and indigenous studies that I'v never heard of, plus Ben Park. One scholar complained that the movie didn't address missing indigenous women which seemed bizarre. Another filled out their liberal bingo card by connecting the movie to Christian nationalism. Ben Park offered some overly broad and dismissive comments about conservatives "at war." Their only common denominator seemed to be an obsession with identity and disdain for conservatives. So, about what I would expect from the Salt Lake Tribune and not very useful. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by morgan.deane

[GingerRed]

There are several LDS themed films that I really liked. 

God's Army and the sequel, States Of Grace  ( its shame Dutcher left the church )

The Other Side of Heaven and it's sequel

17 Miracles and its sequel. 

The Fighting Preacher

 

Mormon films  CAN be done right  

 ( Does anyone remember the episode of Bonanza that deal with an LDS man and his 2 wives?  It was done quite well actually . Very respectful and its message was about the evils of prejudice and hate.  Season 8 episode 4, the Pursued....its in 2 parts and both are on You Tube ) 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by GingerRed

[Kenngo1969]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:50 AM, teddyaware said:

Here’s the problem: Darin Scott’s original Book of Mormon movie project was titled, “Reign of Judges, Title of Liberty,” which was going to be a dramatization of the Book of Alma’s historic account of the exploits of the heroic General Moroni. [sic] ...

Moroni got promoted from Captain?!!  When?!!  Must be in the sealed two-thirds!

[Kenngo1969]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Isn’t that what killed Betamax? I think I remember grandpa saying something about that.

Well, turn about is fair play!

 

[Pyreaux]

On 12/22/2023 at 10:27 PM, Millcreek said:

The complete article has been archived at Archive Today here >> Moroni comes to the big screen, but some LDS scholars see some big problems 

Quote

Moroni comes to the big screen, but some LDS scholars see some big problems

The feature-length romance has raised eyebrows among some historians, who say the film perpetuates harmful stereotypes.

(Freestyle Releasing) Actors Nora Dale and Darin Scott co-star in "The Oath," a feature-length romance based on the Book of Mormon character Moroni.

By Tamarra Kemsley

  | Dec. 3, 2023, 12:00 p.m.

| Updated: 3:50 p.m.

Comment

 

The film begins with a moody shot of a tree-canopied shoreline, then: “Legend tells of an ancient grudge.”

What follows is a 100-plus-minute romance between the Nephite warrior-prophet Moroni of Book of Mormon fame and a woman, played by part-Choctaw actress Nora Dale, from an enemy group known as the Lamanites. Written and directed by the Latter-day Saint actor Darin Scott, who stars as the film’s hero, “The Oath” will hit more than 650 theaters nationwide Dec. 8.

For Scott, the project, more than a decade in the making, represents a sacred work, one that demanded nearly everything — including, at one point, his house — from him.

 

For some scholars, who haven’t seen the movie but have viewed the trailer and read a plot summary, the resulting story is a mashup of modern conservative politics and tired stereotypes about Native Americans. The outcome isn’t just predictable, they say, but a perpetuation of racist tropes.

‘Unexplainable feelings’

(Rick Egan | The Salt Lake Tribune) Captain Moroni and the Title of Liberty are depicted in an earlier Mormon Miracle Pageant in Manti in 2019. This pageant is no longer held.

Scott’s original plans for a movie about the Book of Mormon, the foundational scripture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, didn’t include the pared-down cast and story of “The Oath.” Instead, the actor, whose career has included minor roles in “Yellowstone” and the Oscar-nominated “127 Hours,” set out 13 years ago to create a sweeping war epic based on the character Captain Moroni found in the middle of the Book of Mormon.

In the years since, he has spent more than one long night on his knees, begging God for the resources and the help to create the movie he felt “wrought upon by spiritual, unexplainable feelings” to make.

“There were many times,” he said, “that this project tested [my family and me] to the limits.” He occasionally considered giving up. But the gnawing sense that the heavens wanted this story told kept him from quitting.

To get by, he sold real estate, including his own house, to help fund the project.

A breakthrough finally came when he launched a Kickstarter campaign, which allowed him to generate a 14-minute movie short, “Reign of Judges: Title of Liberty.” This, in turn, allowed him to attract enough funding for a small-scale, feature-length film, and “The Oath” was born.

Instead of big-budget battle scenes, the movie depicts the Moroni found in the scripture’s final pages, an army general and the last surviving Nephite, offering shelter to and ultimately marrying a battered woman he finds injured in the woods. Named Bathsheba, she is a runaway from Moroni’s greatest enemy, an evil king played by the actor Billy Zane.

Along the way, Moroni teaches Bathsheba to read in his language, dress more conservatively and — after her failed attempt to seduce him — the importance of chastity. She converts to Moroni’s Christian faith and, after their marriage, becomes pregnant.

Throughout the film, Captain Moroni — who led earlier Nephite soldiers against Lamanite forces and someone Scott said he’s always found “very inspiring” — appears to various characters as an armor-wearing angel.

Curses, Lamanites and brownface

The Book of Mormon represents “difficult source material” for anyone trying to adapt it to the silver screen, said Randy Astle, a scholar of Latter-day Saint films, largely due to the text’s “problematic” treatment of race.

A controversial passage portrays God cursing the Lamanites with dark skin as a result of their wickedness. For years, the volume’s introduction taught that Native Americans could trace their lineage back to this group. Now, it simply states that Lamanites “are among the ancestors of the American Indians.”

According to Astle previous attempts at telling the Book of Mormon through cinema have “floundered” on their treatment of race. He said “The Testaments: Of One Fold and One Shepherd,” a 2000 film produced by the church, “actually put its white actors in brownface.”

For his film, Scott hired Native American actors, including Eugene Brave Rock of “Wonder Woman” fame, to play Lamanites in “Reign of Judges” and “The Oath.”

Brave Rock, who is Blackfoot from the Blood Tribe of Siksikaissksahkoi, said that before he agreed to the projects, he asked some family members who happened to be Latter-day Saints whether they thought he should take on the work.

“They told me,” he said, “to pray about it.”

His decision to get involved ultimately rested on Scott’s willingness to incorporate the Blackfoot language into parts of the script in the short film and, later, in “The Oath.”

“The thing I wanted to bring to the table,” he said, “was language.” That he was able to do so was enough for him to feel good about his role.

(Freestyle Releasing) Eugene Brave Rock, right, appears alongside fellow actor Billy Zane in the movie "The Oath." Brave Rock said it was important to him to bring his Blackfoot language to the film.

Arcia Tecun is an adjunct University of Utah anthropologist and member of the Mayan diaspora in North America who has written about the experience of Indigenous Latter-day Saints who identify as Lamanite.

Tecun said Scott’s depictions of Lamanites, based on what he reviewed, match up with those found in official and unofficial Latter-day Saint art and film — depictions he described as a “bloody mess.”

“It’s the reproduction of the notion of civilized and primitive,” he said, “and you see that in the aesthetics.”

What concerns him most, though, is Scott’s treatment of Bathsheba, which he said resurrects racist, colonial tropes in the relationship between her and Moroni — in particular “this kind of white male fantasy of a darker woman wanting them and being sexually available.”

He said the story also seemed “oblivious” to the crisis of “missing and murdered Indigenous girls, women and other femme-presenting folks in Indian country.”

He added: “For some it feels like it’s only fiction, but it’s layered with all these very real, pressing issues.”

Moroni meets Donald Trump

Captain Moroni is having a moment. From Donald Trump rallies to the Jan. 6 protest at the U.S. Capitol, the Book of Mormon commander has made several appearances on large, conservative public stages over the past three years.

Also present at the Jan. 6 protest: Darin Scott.

“It was actually a wonderful experience,” Scott said, adding that “the way that event was reported by the media was so the opposite of what I experienced.”

He emphasized that he did not enter the Capitol that day and did not witness any violence.

The news of Scott’s presence at the protest did not surprise Latter-day Saint historian Ben Park.

(Freestyle Releasing) Darin Scott wrote, directed and stars in the movie that took him more than a decade to make.

“LDS conservatives are drawn to Captain Moroni,” he said, “for the same reason that evangelical conservatives are drawn to” William Wallace, the Scottish knight played by Mel Gibson in the 1995 movie “Braveheart.”

“Both figures,” he said, “present a masculine ideal who balances militant dedication, muscular zeal and religious devotion.”

In recent years, scholars have shown, Park said, that “conservatives have come to embrace the image of the warrior, rather than the humble servant, as the apex symbol for righteousness. They are constantly at war — war with their inner demons or with their external enemies.”

Amanda Hendrix-Komoto, a historian of Mormonism who has written about gender and the Latter-day Saint tradition, echoed this thought.

“There is a general attempt by conservative Christians,” Hendrix-Komoto said, “to make a more masculine Christianity that plays into their ideals,” including Christian nationalism.

Latter-day Saint leaders have addressed this political ideology, including apostle Dallin H. Oaks, first counselor in the governing First Presidency and next in line to lead the global church. During a speech last year in Rome, he voiced support for protecting the freedoms of all faiths and stated that “religious rights cannot be absolute.”

Astle in particular despaired at what he saw as the politics underpinning not just “The Oath,” but also Tim Ballard’s recent box office smash hit “Sound of Freedom.”

That the “loudest voices in American Mormon cinema support Trump so openly shows,” he explained, “how separated much of Mormon society has become from its moral roots.”

A message of unity

(Photo courtesy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) As the only surviving Nephite, a people of the ancient Americas, Moroni finishes writing about his people’s destruction in this image from the faith's Book of Mormon Video series.

When asked why he chose to depict Moroni over other characters from the Book of Mormon, Scott said, “I’ve always been fascinated and inspired by these heroic figures who were able to maintain their honor in viciously dishonorable times.”

The film, he said, is one “about unity and goodness” that he believes has the potential to bring people together in “the most divisive time that I can ever recall living in.”

Ultimately, this connection is what he hopes people come away with.

“We live in a time,” he said, “when people need to come together and need to be able to hear each other.”

Editor’s note • This story is available to Salt Lake Tribune subscribers only. Thank you for supporting local journalism.

 

[The Last Dispensation]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:25 AM, The Nehor said:

What a whiner!

Also this might be petty but using the General Conference ‘lilt’ when speaking made me shudder and referring to the people he was working with as “souls”. Buddy, calm down. Also acting like he has some right to Church attention is just silly. Acting like this is some personal insult is just weird.

Also you seriously named Moroni’s love interest Bathsheba? What?

The movie just wasn't good, period. That is the reason. You made good points. He needs to stop blaming others for his lack of capturing an audience.

[smac97]

A surprising update: Viewers Are Taking 'The Oath' As Historical Action Drama Scores Huge Streaming Hit

Quote

Historical action epics are always good for a watch on streaming, and the latest to enjoy a strong performance is the little-known The Oath , a 2023 movie that has made an unexpected charge to the top of the Starz streaming chart. Set in Ancient America in 400 A.D., the film recounts a tumultuous era for the people who survived on the continent that would become one of the most advanced nations in the world. However, despite the movie’s current lofty position at the top of the STARZ movie chart, the film failed to live up to its potential in either financial terms or in its reviews.

The Oath attempts to explore a chapter of American history that is often overlooked on screen, and follows a band of warriors in a culturally volatile time. The official synopsis of the movie reads:

"400 A.D., in a forgotten time of Ancient America, a lone Hebraic fugitive must preserve the history of his fallen nation while being hunted by a ruthless tyrant but rescuing the King's abused mistress could awaken a warrior's past."

While this may all sound thrilling, The Oath became another movie that drew completely different reactions from audiences compared to critics. On the Rotten Tomatoes Tomatometer, The Oath scored just 33%, with complaints of a “tedius” and “soulless” production that left Jeff Mitchell of Art House Film Wire feeling that he could “appreciate the filmmaker’s intentions, but pledging to watch The Oath may cause severe regrets.” Oddly enough, that was not how audiences saw this historical action epic.

Audiences Were Happy to With 'The Oath'

Starring Darin Scott, Nora Dale, Karina Lombard, Eugene Brave Rock and Billy Zane , The Oath may not have had a blockbuster cast, but it managed to enthrall audiences with its adaptations of stories from The Book of Mormon. While critics can often look for specific things in the movies they are employed to watch, audiences tend to gravitate to movies they already know they are going to like. That seemed to be the case with The Oath, as the film scored a high 84% score from its watchers.

In a stark contrast to the consensus of critics, audiences heaped praise on the film’s message, the performances of its cast, and even the “well-plotted” storyline that so many critics just did not have time for. One thing that comes across in many of the positive reviews is that viewers were not quite prepared for the story that was told, but were happy to embrace it. Audience reviews that did not provide one of the positive scores, tended to drift off into the realm of not being interested in something based on The Book of Mormon.

Now prominently featured on Starz, The Oath having topped the platform’s movie chart in the last few days does suggest that it has found a waiting audience that it failed to capture during its disappointing 2023 theatrical release and its subsequent VOD drop in March 2024. It seems that The Oath has become another of those movies that only manages to find its feet when it becomes available on streaming.

https://flixpatrol.com/top10/starz/united-states/2025-02-14/

See #3:

Quote

TOP 10 Movies
Jurassic World Dominion
1.    +1    Jurassic World Dominion    38 d
2.    +1    Expend4bles    169 d
3.    -2    The Oath    8 d
4.    –    Jurassic World Dominion    39 d
5.    –    The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes    81 d
6.    +3    Venom: Let There Be Carnage    202 d
7.    -1    Borderlands    41 d
8.    -1    Jurassic Park    17 d
9.    -1    The Hard Hit    10 d
10.    –    Not Another Church Movie    9 d
 

Huh.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

What is Starz?

*Looks at the other 9 top ten movies*

Oh…..got it.

[Bernard Gui]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:00 AM, smac97 said:

He also brings up "Stake Lagoon Days," about which I know nothing.  He characterizes all of these as "for profit" ventures which received public "support" from the Church.

Lots of venues promote "group" days for businesses, schools, churches, etc. Our family reunion did one with the Seattle Mariners and got our picture on the big screen. Lagoon also has a Catholic Day sponsored by the Knights of Columbus. There is nothing nefarious about them.

[Mfbnew]

On 12/7/2023 at 5:35 AM, CV75 said:

Lagoon, in ancient times, was the waters of Mormon, so it's OK.

Thanks.  

  Precision in history always proves beyond doubt that God is real.   Just go to the other side and talk to one of the witnesses.   It's quite easy.  I'm glad you went through the trouble to do that.   

I think there is a spelling error though.   It is "LA-Goon". 🙃

 

 

[Mfbnew]

On 12/7/2023 at 5:36 AM, CV75 said:

And they say Hollywood is la-la-land?

It's very unkind to make fun of people who stutter. 

[Kenngo1969]

On 12/8/2023 at 11:07 AM, bluebell said:

You have to see the Best Two Years!!  It's one of the top 3 movies in "mormondom".  Seriously it's go so much heart and it's hilarious.  

[Earnestly] "I know that Joseph Smith was a pamphlet."