New Missionary Handbook

[rpn]

On 11/19/2019 at 2:54 PM, Boanerges said:

But the mission president here has oodles and oodles of mission specific rules and I don't see that changing.

Every MP currently serving lived under the highly regulated rules.   Every MP has been an 18 year old who broke rules.    It is the natural human tendency to control and  protect, even though the Lord's way is to invite and encourage.   The current Church leadership are trying to move all of us towards choosing the right because we love our Heavenly Parents and Savior and listen to the Spirit as we figure it out.   Surely we see that without that developed discipleship, our children, even ones who serve missions struggle to love and serve God in ways that make it easier to fall away, or revert to the controlling rule enforcing, guilt inducing parenting/leading that we've mostly all done when we had that kind of parenting/leading growing up.   We'll all be better off to the extent we can adopted live and serve as a disciple, following the Lord's process.   But that won't necessarily happen without messiness.

Edited November 21, 2019 by rpn

[Calm]

4 hours ago, rpn said:

Every MP has been an 18 year old who broke rules. 

Probably the majority of them, but could be some are adult converts who never served a mission...unless there is a requirement I am not aware of. 

[Duncan]

The only rule our mission had was DA's had to be done by 6, that was basically it. If people wanted to get someone else to be there then that was up to them but it wasn't a requirement. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 hours ago, Duncan said:

The only rule our mission had was DA's had to be done by 6, that was basically it. If people wanted to get someone else to be there then that was up to them but it wasn't a requirement. 

It will have been in the handbook. Like my mission president, yours probably didn't emphasise it.

[Rain]

23 hours ago, Duncan said:

The only rule our mission had was DA's had to be done by 6, that was basically it. If people wanted to get someone else to be there then that was up to them but it wasn't a requirement. 

It wasn't a specific rule for dinner appointments as far as I can remember.  It was just a rule for any time, which would include dinners.  

Edited November 22, 2019 by Rain

[Boanerges]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:14 PM, rpn said:

Every MP currently serving lived under the highly regulated rules.   Every MP has been an 18 year old who broke rules.    It is the natural human tendency to control and  protect, even though the Lord's way is to invite and encourage.   The current Church leadership are trying to move all of us towards choosing the right because we love our Heavenly Parents and Savior and listen to the Spirit as we figure it out.   Surely we see that without that developed discipleship, our children, even ones who serve missions struggle to love and serve God in ways that make it easier to fall away, or revert to the controlling rule enforcing, guilt inducing parenting/leading that we've mostly all done when we had that kind of parenting/leading growing up.   We'll all be better off to the extent we can adopted live and serve as a disciple, following the Lord's process.   But that won't necessarily happen without messiness.

I am "old" enough to be a mission president (the MP here is younger than I am) and I did serve a mission in the flip chart days. Remember those? Hahaha. Anyway, we did have the "little white Bible" in our pockets all the time, but my mission president didn't have any additional rules. I have had three sons serve missions with a wide variety of mission president experiences (only one of them had two presidents). Son One had the best, a guy who believed that if you treated young people like adults they'd act like adults and if you treated them like 13-year-olds they'd act like 13-year olds - and from what my son reports that turned out to essentially be correct. His mission had literally no mission specific rules and very few early returners (my son worked in the office for a few months). This mission president also was very communicative with parents and we were encouraged to contact him via Facebook or email and he always answered quickly. This son has an ongoing strong relationship with his mission president and is in regular contact with him, and I have also met him and have some contact with him. Son Two had the worst, tons of rules (some in opposition to the actual rules, including those in the new book) and tons of early returnees. During his entire mission we got one email message from his president - the day he arrived. This son has had no contact with his president since leaving (over 2 years ago) and doesn't really desire to. Son Three had two presidents, one for 7 months and the other for the remainder. They were both in between as far as rules (a few extra rules), although the first was closer to Son One's (very few). Son Three also worked in the office for a few months and interestingly a fair amount of early returnees - closer to Son Two's rate.

I hear what you're saying, and the "strict obedience brings blessings" mantra was around in my day too - only some of us are able to see the fallacy there. Some of the "guidelines" in the new book seem to directly address those fallacies.

Mission presidents have had access to these new books for several months. I'm very curious to see what, if any, changes will come about here. I honestly have a hard time seeing this guy letting go of his control, even if it's only perceived control (although I have observed missionaries who are visibly fearful of stepping out of line here). I don't have a horse in this race, but I have felt sorry for some of the missionaries. (Example of a ridiculous rule: missionaries are not allowed to leave their area except for church attendance - and only Sunday church attendance, not activities at church unless there is someone they're teaching there - even to grocery shop. In the neighboring ward one set of missionaries does not have a grocery store in their area, therefore the missionaries who do have a grocery store have to do their shopping for them and they meet at the border to pick up their stuff. I am not making this up. They have to meet at the border because they are not permitted to have any activities together with any other missionaries except district or zone meetings and then only for meetings, not activities.)

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 11/23/2019 at 6:40 AM, Boanerges said:

Son One had the best, a guy who believed that if you treated young people like adults they'd act like adults and if you treated them like 13-year-olds they'd act like 13-year olds - and from what my son reports that turned out to essentially be correct. His mission had literally no mission specific rules ...

This sounds like my mission president. He in fact told us that the apostles and others who trained new MPs in the MTC had told them specifically not to add to what was already in the handbook and in the Missionary Guide. So when he arrived in the mission (three months before I did), he instigated a purge of all mission-specific handbooks (huge binders) and rules.

When I was serving as my mission president's assistant, he was actually contacted by the Missionary Department and asked if he would take a missionary from one of the Texas missions. When he asked what was wrong with this Elder, he was told that nothing was wrong with him. He just wouldn't take all the heavy-handedness and crazy rules that the mission president in Texas was insisting on, and since this Elder wouldn't cave, the MP in Texas wanted him gone. It turned out that my MP actually knew the other one from his schooldays in Utah. His response to the Missionary Department: Any missionary willing to stand up to his nonsense will be an asset in my mission.

And he was! He was hardworking and capable ... and ever so grateful to be given an opportunity to serve in a mission where he was respected and, as you put it, treated like an adult. We loved him, and he lifted every area he served in. It left me wishing we could stage an emergency airlift of all the other missionaries serving back in Texas, but I understand some of them actually loved their mission president's approach ... 

We also took in a Sister from a mission in New York. She had developed anorexia during her service, and the Missionary Department, sensing the cause of the problem, had likewise asked my mission president to let her see how she went with us. Miraculously, her disorder immediately cleared up, and she completed her mission. My MP confidentially told me he was nearly certain that the anorexia had been her unconscious attempt to deal with a brutish mission president.

Quote

... and very few early returners (my son worked in the office for a few months).

I wasn't aware of any missionaries who'd returned early from my mission, so I asked the mission president about it once on a long drive back from a zone conference. He confirmed that a small handful had been released early for health issues* but nothing more.

Quote

In the neighboring ward one set of missionaries does not have a grocery store in their area, therefore the missionaries who do have a grocery store have to do their shopping for them and they meet at the border to pick up their stuff. I am not making this up.

This is, of course, sheer madness and cannot end well. A mission president who cannot trust his missionaries to do their own shopping is almost certainly wrestling with his own demons.

Quote

I'm very curious to see what, if any, changes will come about here. I honestly have a hard time seeing this guy letting go of his control ...

Please keep us posted. I'm curious too!

-----

*This included one Elder who had been raised in a very insular family and simply could not deal with people who sinned since, as he told it, no one in his family ever had ... We got him counselling immediately, but he cracked after just a few weeks, accused the members in his ward of poisoning him (in the middle of sacrament meeting, no less!), and needed to be returned. I knew about this one since I'd been the one to pick the Elder up and take him to the waiting MP at the airport, an all-night 'adventure'.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

This sounds like my mission president. He in fact told us that the apostles and others who trained new MPs in the MTC had told them specifically not to add to what was already in the handbook and in the Missionary Guide. So when he arrived in the mission (three months before I did), he instigated a purge of all mission-specific handbooks (huge binders) and rules.

When I was serving as my mission president's assistant, he was actually contacted by the Missionary Department and asked if he would take a missionary from one of the Texas missions. When he asked what was wrong with this Elder, he was told that nothing was wrong with him. He just wouldn't take all the heavy-handedness and crazy rules that the mission president in Texas was insisting on, and since this Elder wouldn't cave, the MP in Texas wanted him gone. It turned out that my MP actually knew the other one from his schooldays in Utah. His response to the Missionary Department: Any missionary willing to stand up to his nonsense will be an asset in my mission.

And he was! He was hardworking and capable ... and ever so grateful to be given an opportunity to serve in a mission where he was respected and, as you put it, treated like an adult. We loved him, and he lifted every area he served in. It left me wishing we could stage an emergency airlift of all the other missionaries serving back in Texas, but I understand some of them actually loved their mission president's approach ... 

We also took in a Sister from a mission in New York. She had developed anorexia during her service, and the Missionary Department, sensing the cause of the problem, had likewise asked my mission president to let her see how she went with us. Miraculously, her disorder immediately cleared up, and she completed her mission. My MP confidentially told me he was nearly certain that the anorexia had been her unconscious attempt to deal with a brutish mission president.

I wasn't aware of any missionaries who'd returned early from my mission, so I asked the mission president about it once on a long drive back from a zone conference. He confirmed that a small handful had been released early for health issues* but nothing more.

This is, of course, sheer madness and cannot end well. A mission president who cannot trust his missionaries to do their own shopping is almost certainly wrestling with his own demons.

Please keep us posted. I'm curious too!

-----

*This included one Elder who had been raised in a very insular family and simply could not deal with people who sinned since, as he told it, no one in his family ever had ... We got him counselling immediately, but he cracked after just a few weeks, accused the members in his ward of poisoning him (in the middle of sacrament meeting, no less!), and needed to be returned. I knew about this one since I'd been the one to pick the Elder up and take him to the waiting MP at the airport, an all-night 'adventure'.

If I understand correctly, in one of my recently-returned missionary son’s assignments, the apartment where he and his companion lived was not even in the boundaries of their proselyting area. This was in a populous section of the mission, where several sets of missionaries served. 
 

So to not be allowed to cross area boundaries to access a grocery store strikes me as silliness. 

[Duncan]

I've not seen this in Mission President's so much but in other people's callings- if one person is the problem and others are affected by them negatively then why on God's green earth don't they release the problem person? rather then dealing with all these other problems that the person caused, i've seen this time and again with Bishop's and a stake president and some others in various capacities.

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 hours ago, Duncan said:

If one person is the problem and others are affected by them negatively then why on God's green earth don't they release the problem person?

It's a difficult balance, with the impact on the 'problem' leader also needing to be considered. We were grateful that our recent stake reorganisation gave us an excuse to release all of our bishops because one of them really needed to go, but at the same time we knew that an 'early' release would probably send him into a downward spiral. So our solution was to give extra resources to the ward until it could happen. From God's perspective, everyone needs opportunities to learn and grow, including making mistakes and learning how to repent -- and that includes leaders. If we released every leader who's ever got his/her calling wrong, we'd have tens of thousands of vacancies.

But yeah, I'm strongly sympathetic to what you suggested. As patient as my mission president was, he reached his limit with a certain 'ward mission leader from hell', as I had dubbed him. In no uncertain terms, he told local leaders that unless this man was released, he would remove his missionaries (eight of us) from the ward.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[blueglass]

3.5.2   "Do not tickle children, change diapers, hold children, or allow children to sit on your lap. These and other actions could appear inappropriate or be misinterpreted."

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, blueglass said:

3.5.2   "Do not tickle children, change diapers, hold children, or allow children to sit on your lap. These and other actions could appear inappropriate or be misinterpreted."

I don't think this is new. I know we weren't allowed to hold children when I served in 98-99.

[pogi]

10 minutes ago, blueglass said:

3.5.2   "Do not tickle children, change diapers, hold children, or allow children to sit on your lap. These and other actions could appear inappropriate or be misinterpreted."

I know someone who was molested by a missionary while sitting on his lap as a child.

[blueglass]

15 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't think this is new. I know we weren't allowed to hold children when I served in 98-99.

This stood out to me, but I suppose you are right.   

If anything the 2006 handbook was even more direct on the warning.

CHILDREN
The  following  guidelines  apply  to  all  missionaries,
regardless of age or sex.
Because of increasing legal complexities, be extremely
careful  around  children.  If  charges  of  inappropriate
behavior are made, you may find yourself involved in
a lengthy court case. If you are found guilty, you could
face a substantial jail sentence and Church disciplinary
action.
As in all other relationships, never be alone with a child.
Avoid  any  behavior  that  could  be  misunderstood or
could  appear  to  be  inappropriate,  including  tickling,
changing  diapers,  holding  children,  and  allowing
children  to  sit  on  your  lap.  Never  babysit  children  of
any age.

[Ahab]

On 11/19/2019 at 7:15 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

What has changed this time is that missionaries can no longer have members as their companions -- i.e. splits. Teaching with members now requires three people showing up no matter what. Maybe it's a cultural thing, or maybe our houses are just smaller, but inviting three women into my home feels a bit like an invasion.

Yeah the sister missionary rule is a hassle when members have a male friend they want to teach but you and your male friend could go to a sister's (female member's) house and have the 2 sisters go there.  That way the 2 sisters wouldn't need to bring another sister with them since there would already be a female member where they were going.

And 2 male missionaries don't need another male to go with them to a male member's house with a male friend to teach because the male member (you in your friend's case) would be there with your friend when the 2 male missionaries show up.

I think maybe this is just an evil, backhanded way to get more members involved in missionary work? Maybe?

[Duncan]

What's nuts in our Stake a Stake person likes to receive revelations for people and every aspect of their life and then brag about how holy they are and how they are on a "higher level" now and some years ago she received a revelation that one of the then serving sister missionaries was going to be in a relationship with her for eternity, she then told everyone in RS about this revelation. I don't know what she thought when this sister missionary finished her mission and married her boyfriend. She is allowed to have the sisters over for dinner but for my brother and me we need to get a chaperone, besides the elders being there😕

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

What's nuts in our Stake a Stake person likes to receive revelations for people and every aspect of their life and then brag about how holy they are and how they are on a "higher level" now and some years ago she received a revelation that one of the then serving sister missionaries was going to be in a relationship with her for eternity, she then told everyone in RS about this revelation. I don't know what she thought when this sister missionary finished her mission and married her boyfriend. She is allowed to have the sisters over for dinner but for my brother and me we need to get a chaperone, besides the elders being there😕

Sadly, I have known a few like this. They are both misguided and dangerous. The Prophet Joseph was taught, “it is contrary to the economy of God, for anyone to receive revelation for those appointed over them”. (Too Paraphrase) I think this must also apply to those thinking they are receiving “personal revelations”, about others who are not family. In fact “personal revelation” is “personal”. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Duncan]

3 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Sadly, I have known a few like this. They are both misguided and dangerous. The Prophet Joseph was taught, “it is contrary to the economy of God, for anyone to receive revelation for those appointed over them”. (Too Paraphrase) I think this must also apply to those thinking they are receiving “personal revelations”, about others who are not family. In fact “personal revelation” is “personal”. 

another lady told my Dad she received a revelation that he was supposed to marry some friend of hers, well not in 85 lifetimes would that ever happen. So, my Dad told her to take these revelations, write them down and burn them👨‍🚒

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

19 hours ago, Duncan said:

another lady told my Dad she received a revelation that he was supposed to marry some friend of hers, well not in 85 lifetimes would that ever happen. So, my Dad told her to take these revelations, write them down and burn them👨‍🚒

I have a friend, long time friend, who at her wedding two sisters in the Temple told her that “they felt as if the man she was supposed to marry, had already died”. The marriage ended after 7 children, for other serious reasons. But even if you believed this, why would you say so? 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[sunstoned]

On 11/24/2019 at 9:05 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

If I understand correctly, in one of my recently-returned missionary son’s assignments, the apartment where he and his companion lived was not even in the boundaries of their proselyting area. This was in a populous section of the mission, where several sets of missionaries served. 
 

So to not be allowed to cross area boundaries to access a grocery store strikes me as silliness. 

I agree.  I think the MP should have a lot of discretion on these types of things.

[Tacenda]

Go to 1:28 in and see what one mission president says about the sister missionaries.

 

[The Nehor]

On 11/27/2019 at 1:48 PM, Duncan said:

another lady told my Dad she received a revelation that he was supposed to marry some friend of hers, well not in 85 lifetimes would that ever happen. So, my Dad told her to take these revelations, write them down and burn them👨‍🚒

I jokingly suggested to a friend who had one girl who irritated him that he should marry her. His response was that for him to marry her it would require an angel to come in all its glory and command him to marry her and even then he would extend his hand and say “Put her there pal” just to make sure.

[MustardSeed]

On 11/28/2019 at 8:29 AM, Tacenda said:

Go to 1:28 in and see what one mission president says about the sister missionaries.

 

Lol 😂 

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Lol 😂 

Regarding the video as a whole, you can find similar advice on many business and professional dress/grooming etiquette websites. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[bluebell]

On 11/28/2019 at 9:29 AM, Tacenda said:

Go to 1:28 in and see what one mission president says about the sister missionaries.

 

That video is a great commercial for letting sisters wear pants.