Porn addiction, marriage, and divorce

[Nevo]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

If a young man knows that he has an addiction, then his future spouse ABSOLUTELY needs to know what she is getting into.  You don't want to trick anyone into marrying you by leaving out important information.   It is the breech of trust and disillusionment that often stings the worst for the spouse.  

I think Benjamin Franklin's advice still stands: "Keep your eyes wide open before marriage, half shut afterwards."

Habitual pornography use should absolutely be disclosed before marriage. Some prospective spouses will be willing to bear that infirmity; others will not. If the behavior has gone on for years, it is likely to be a lifelong struggle—and prospective spouses need to know that from the outset.

Pornography use is at an epidemic level in many parts of the church. My ward would simply stop functioning if everyone who had looked at pornography in the last 6 months were disqualified from participating. It's that pervasive.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Nevo

[Bernard Gui]

26 minutes ago, Nevo said:

I think Benjamin Franklin's advice still stands: "Keep your eyes wide open before marriage, half shut afterwards."

Habitual pornography use should absolutely be disclosed before marriage. Some prospective spouses will be willing to bear that infirmity; others will not. If the behavior has gone on for years, it is likely to be a lifelong struggle—and prospective spouses need to know that from the outset.

Pornography use is at an epidemic level in many parts of the church. My ward would simply stop functioning if everyone who had looked at pornography in the last 6 months were disqualified from participating. It's that pervasive.

Wise and timely words from Ben. Thanks for sharing. What you say is true.

While it is a growing problem for Church members and others who value marriage and fidelity, the rest of the world is slowly coming to recognize the devastation it creates. The Church is the canary in the coal mine. Our leaders are ahead of the curve even in the face of ridicule from outside and sadly from some within the Church. 

[MorningStar]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Well, you get it for sure. Sadly, this is no longer uncommon. These stories are pretty raw, but this is the blunt reality many are facing now. Some of us want to minimize the problem, but I think everyone reading this has stories similar to yours to tell. We slough it off at our own peril.

I had never thought about this in the way you just said...."Satan is destroying your future family right now." That is brilliant! With your permission I would like to use it for other venues. Porn addiction is his perfect tool to accomplish that plan. 

Yes, you may use that quote.    It's like people expect the church to really downplay how destructive it is.  It's going to escalate no matter what the church says about it.  We can't just not warn people. 

[provoman]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

You and Scott make a very good point.  The problem with addiction is relapse is a possibility that addicts and those who love them must recognize. One principal of repentance (recovery) is to make personal amends to those one has wronged - unless doing so would cause more damage. It's difficult for everyone to navigate these treacherous waters. The Atonement is the way out. How to steer clear of them in the first place.....?

 

What is "them" that one needs "to steer clear of"?

[Bernard Gui]

30 minutes ago, provoman said:

 

What is "them" that one needs "to steer clear of"?

As Clint said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

That is for the individual to decide, but there is nothing wrong with abstinence when it comes to explicit materials.We should steer clear of anything that might become harmful to us and to those we love most.

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[rodheadlee]

10 hours ago, Nevo said:

I think Benjamin Franklin's advice still stands: "Keep your eyes wide open before marriage, half shut afterwards."

Habitual pornography use should absolutely be disclosed before marriage. Some prospective spouses will be willing to bear that infirmity; others will not. If the behavior has gone on for years, it is likely to be a lifelong struggle—and prospective spouses need to know that from the outset.

Pornography use is at an epidemic level in many parts of the church. My ward would simply stop functioning if everyone who had looked at pornography in the last 6 months were disqualified from participating. It's that pervasive.

Perhaps the women are not taking care of their men. Have you all ever considered it may be an addiction to sex, rather than pornography? Outside the church in the wicked world there is a saying, if your man is not getting it at home he is going to get it somewhere else. I really feel sorry for the guy in Morning Star's story (I think it was Morning Star) his wife locked herself in another room to sleep because he couldn't keep his hands off of her? I know a bunch of women that wish they had that problem. She should fell honored or at least be happy that he still finds her attractive after years of marriage. Sex with your spouse is fun, legal and moral. In our marriage we made love 365 days a year for the first 8 years of our marriage (with no birth protection), and then dropped down to a few times a week, it's how you bond physically with your wife. We had a rule, if we are having a fight, you have to go to bed naked. I guaranty the fight will be over by morning. But hey if you just married your guy to check the celestial marriage box, have a bread winner and father a few children it's really nothing to get all morally superior about. If you really love your man find out what he needs don't just dump him when he becomes a pain in the rear end.

Edited January 1, 2017 by rodheadlee
spelling

[Nevo]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Perhaps the women are not taking care of their men.

That may play a role in some cases, but I am confident that most of the time a wife's attractiveness and/or sexual availability has little or nothing to do with it. Many women wrongly blame themselves for their husband's use of pornography.

As one therapist notes: "In many cases, pornography use is more about seeking an escape or mood-altering effect than it is about sex itself. Although pornography use often starts out as a youthful curiosity about sex, in most cases it develops into a way of escaping certain emotions and stressors. Looking at pornography can even be used to self-medicate depression and anxiety and to self-soothe loneliness or poor self-esteem. Understanding this can help cut through the faulty belief that being more sexual with a pornography user will reduce consumption, or that if someone is using pornography, his or her spouse must not be sexually available or attractive. In addition, understanding the non-sexual motivations behind pornography use can help a woman understand that her partner would have likely turned to pornography regardless of whom he married and that his pornography use is not a commentary on her attractiveness (even though it feels like an attack). Erroneous assumptions about the motivations around pornography use not only promote misplaced blame and shame, but also detract from holding the consumer responsible for choosing to deal with life's problems in maladaptive and harmful ways." (https://www.overcomingpornography.org/spouses-and-families/articles/healing-concepts-for-women-impacted-by-pornography?lang=eng)

Edited January 1, 2017 by Nevo

[Calm]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

. I really feel sorry for the guy in Morning Star's story (I think it was Morning Star) his wife locked herself in another room to sleep because he couldn't keep his hands off of her? I know a bunch of women that wish they had that problem. She should fell honored or at least be happy that he still finds her attractive after years of marriage. Sex with your spouse is fun, legal and moral.

Should have gotten permission first, please ignore.  Suffice to say it is not a story about a woman refusing her husband sex.

Just in case you misunderstood MS' story, the porn came first and it was the husband imitating the porn among other things that caused her retreat and fear of him.  It was not normal or close to normal sexual requests.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Calm

[BCSpace]

You guys might be interested in listening to the various podcasts involving Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife who specializes in sexuality issues for LDS women and couples.  She deals with this subject in more than one podcast (not the only subject in most podcasts), the following is just one of them (porn issue starts at about 4:15):

http://rationalfaiths.com/100-ask-mormon-sex-therapist-part-14/

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Should have gotten permission first, please ignore.  Suffice to say it is not a story about a woman refusing her husband sex.

Just in case you misunderstood MS' story, the porn came first and it was the husband imitating the porn among other things that caused her retreat and fear of him.  It was not normal or close to normal sexual requests.

Um actually, yes it is from his point of view.

[bluebell]

Just now, rodheadlee said:

Um actually, yes it is from his point of view.

Are you defending his actions?

[Calm]

10 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Um actually, yes it is from his point of view.

Ah, from his point of view his wife is refusing to do for him what the porn stars do, she was willing to have the sexual relationship they had originally that was satisfying to both...until he got addicted to porn and sawporn as the reality his wife had to enact to satisfy him. Are you okay with his point of view it is okay for him to rape his wife?  I can't imagine with the respect and love you have shown for your wife, you would see this as some sort of husband's right to do whatever he wanted to with his wife's body, even if she refused.

Do you think his wife should have been perfectly okay with him videotaping them having sex secretly?  For all she knows he has been spreading it around on the internet, trading it with other porn users.  So it is not about her being willing to have sex with him, she was more than willing.  She drew the line when he pushed her to do porn for him.

He watches porn, videotapes her secretly in one of the most sacred acts of their marriage, treats her like dirt, becomes overly physical with her, and she then responds by not feeling like he loves and respects her, putting distance between them because she doesn't know what he will try to do next and gets a lock on the door because she fears for her safety.... he is the victim in your view?  I think you missed part of the story.

I know you are not okay with people sneaking in cameras to the temple for thrills, breaking in after hours because they are angry about not being let in because they have violated their covenants.  In this case, this woman is the temple who was willing to take an honest and respectful man as her husband, only to find out he had broken their covenant, sought excitement elsewhere, and then brought home the evil practices he had learned and wanted her to participate in them with him.  He used her for secret vile thrills, violated her privacy, her sense of dignity and safety in her own home...and when she begged him to stop, he denied there was anything wrong with his behaviour...behaviour he had picked up by watching porn.  

Are you really thinking this guy's only problem is his wife saying no when she should be saying yes or that it really began there? (She was obviously saying yes when he secretly videotaped them having sex.)

Edited January 1, 2017 by Calm

[provoman]

11 hours ago, BCSpace said:

You guys might be interested in listening to the various podcasts involving Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife who specializes in sexuality issues for LDS women and couples.  She deals with this subject in more than one podcast (not the only subject in most podcasts), the following is just one of them (porn issue starts at about 4:15):

http://rationalfaiths.com/100-ask-mormon-sex-therapist-part-14/

 

I only got to about 20minute mark.

Her approach seems to be sexuality is natural, you are not a monster if you view pornography, and what you may think is an addiction is a glimpse of other issues that when addressed would affect pornograpgy use.

[rodheadlee]

11 hours ago, bluebell said:

Are you defending his actions?

I'm saying I understand his actions.

[rodheadlee]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Ah, from his point of view his wife is refusing to do for him what the porn stars do, she was willing to have the sexual relationship they had originally that was satisfying to both...until he got addicted to porn and sawporn as the reality his wife had to enact to satisfy him. Are you okay with his point of view it is okay for him to rape his wife?  I can't imagine with the respect and love you have shown for your wife, you would see this as some sort of husband's right to do whatever he wanted to with his wife's body, even if she refused.

Do you think his wife should have been perfectly okay with him videotaping them having sex secretly?  For all she knows he has been spreading it around on the internet, trading it with other porn users.  So it is not about her being willing to have sex with him, she was more than willing.  She drew the line when he pushed her to do porn for him.

He watches porn, videotapes her secretly in one of the most sacred acts of their marriage, treats her like dirt, becomes overly physical with her, and she then responds by not feeling like he loves and respects her, putting distance between them because she doesn't know what he will try to do next and gets a lock on the door because she fears for her safety.... he is the victim in your view?  I think you missed part of the story.

I know you are not okay with people sneaking in cameras to the temple for thrills, breaking in after hours because they are angry about not being let in because they have violated their covenants.  In this case, this woman is the temple who was willing to take an honest and respectful man as her husband, only to find out he had broken their covenant, sought excitement elsewhere, and then brought home the evil practices he had learned and wanted her to participate in them with him.  He used her for secret vile thrills, violated her privacy, her sense of dignity and safety in her own home...and when she begged him to stop, he denied there was anything wrong with his behaviour...behaviour he had picked up by watching porn.  

Are you really thinking this guy's only problem is his wife saying no when she should be saying yes or that it really began there? (She was obviously saying yes when he secretly videotaped them having sex.)

You are ignoring what I said. He is probably addicted to sex not porn. He wouldn't need pictures of him and his wife making love if he was getting enough real love. I get that he violated her trust but at least he would rather look at her in pictures or video than go get some lovin' somewhere else.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

I'm saying I understand his actions.

Do you mean his rationalization of excusing his desire for his wife to participate in porn with him and to allow him to rape her?  Because honestly if you mean you actually understand his actions, his videotaping taping of his wife secretly, his attempt to rape her...well, I find that horrendous and repulsive.

You know it is okay to admit you misread or misunderstood what someone said?  I make that mistake all the time and I find it much better just to say "oops" than to try and justify what is sometimes unjustifiable.

We are not talking about his porn use, but actions his use of porn led him to commit. And from what MS has related about the story here and elsewhere, the wife was not refusing to express love and devotion to her husband through sexual acts.  She only began to refuse when he pushed past the boundaries of decency in videotaping her without her knowledge and attempting to rape her.

Will you state he was wrong to abuse her in such a way?  Do you think he had any excuse to do so?  Because from what you have said, it comes across as if you think he is justified and only doing what is right and natural in a loving relationship.  I can understand the first post on it if you missed the fact he secretly videotaped them having sex and thought he turned to porn after his wife rejected him, locked the door to avoid unwanted, though normal expressions of sexual attraction.  That misunderstanding could happen with the amount of info given at the time.  But what actually happened was the locked door came last so she could sleep at night secure that he wasn't going to try and rape her while she was asleep because that is what happened...and it wasn't just an attempt to cuddle either.  

Are you really saying you understand his attempted rape of his wife?  If so, please define what you mean by "understand" because it often means one is okay with something and I just can't believe you are condoning rape and secret videotaping (not as some sort of misguided surprise either, he lied to her about it and tried to hide his copies from her) even if you are giving that impression (and not just to me, btw, so I hope you are willing to explain your position in more detail).

I am hoping I have misunderstood and you are not trying to justify his acts because his wife wasn't loving enough towards him, either emotionally or sexually.  From what has been related here and elsewhere, this wasn't true.  They had kids and all other signs of a loving, physical relationship.  His videotaping her, lying about that to her and attempting to rape her were not a result of sexual deprivation but over exposure and desensitization due to his porn use.

It appears to me you were shocked by the fact she disliked him grabbing her and then her locking the door.  You seem to be under the impression that these were playful expression of affection instead of vulgar attacks of groping occurring at inappropritae times (though I can't imagine any appropriate time for what he was doing to her).  She felt violated because he was violating her, hurting her, not because she was reluctant to express love.  She was the one pushing for counseling so their relationship could be restored to a healhtly sexual relationship.

If you are offended because you think I think you are okay with raping one's wife and molesting her, please be assured that .I do not believe this, but am going to this length because it is important men and women understand what each other are saying about this topic, not only between husband and wife, but between friends because attitudes towards one's wife are often mirrored in one's treatment of the women around one (same with one's treatment of one's husband).  If one respects one, the other will likely be respected.  If not, then often respect is lacking in other relationships.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Calm

[provoman]

48 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you mean his rationalization of excusing his desire for his wife to participate in porn with him and to allow him to rape her?  Because honestly if you mean you actually understand his actions, his videotaping taping of his wife secretly, his attempt to rape her...well, I find that horrendous and repulsive.

You know it is okay to admit you misread or misunderstood what someone said?  I make that mistake all the time and I find it much better just to say "oops" than to try and justify what is sometimes unjustifiable.

We are not talking about his porn use, but actions his use of porn led him to commit. And from what MS has related about the story here and elsewhere, the wife was not refusing to express love and devotion to her husband through sexual acts.  She only began to refuse when he pushed past the boundaries of decency in videotaping her without her knowledge and attempting to rape her.

Will you state he was wrong to abuse her in such a way?  Do you think he had any excuse to do so?  Because from what you have said, it comes across as if you think he is justified and only doing what is right and natural in a loving relationship.  I can understand the first post on it if you missed the fact he secretly videotaped them having sex and thought he turned to porn after his wife rejected him, locked the door to avoid unwanted, though normal expressions of sexual attraction.  That misunderstanding could happen with the amount of info given at the time.  But what actually happened was the locked door came last so she could sleep at night secure that he wasn't going to try and rape her while she was asleep because that is what happened...and it wasn't just an attempt to cuddle either.  

Are you really saying you understand his attempted rape of his wife?  If so, please define what you mean by "understand" because it often means one is okay with something and I just can't believe you are condoning rape and secret videotaping (not as some sort of misguided surprise either, he lied to her about it and tried to hide his copies from her) even if you are giving that impression (and not just to me, btw, so I hope you are willing to explain your position in more detail).

I am hoping I have misunderstood and you are not trying to justify his acts because his wife wasn't loving enough towards him, either emotionally or sexually.  From what has been related here and elsewhere, this wasn't true.  They had kids and all other signs of a loving, physical relationship.  His videotaping her, lying about that to her and attempting to rape her were not a result of sexual deprivation but over exposure and desensitization due to his porn use.

It appears to me you were shocked by the fact she disliked him grabbing her and then her locking the door.  You seem to be under the impression that these were playful expression of affection instead of vulgar attacks of groping occurring at inappropritae times (though I can't imagine any appropriate time for what he was doing to her).  She felt violated because he was violating her, hurting her, not because she was reluctant to express love.  She was the one pushing for counseling so their relationship could be restored to a healhtly sexual relationship.

If you are offended because you think I think you are okay with raping one's wife and molesting her, please be assured that .I do not believe this, but am going to this length because it is important men and women understand what each other are saying about this topic, not only between husband and wife, but between friends because attitudes towards one's wife are often mirrored in one's treatment of the women around one (same with one's treatment of one's husband).  If one respects one, the other will likely be respected.  If not, then often respect is lacking in other relationships.

It seems disingenuous to attack rodheadlee on this very specific couple; especially when it seems you know more about the situation than he does.  The rape, the violation, the vulgarity as you have claimed has not been posted previous.

Can we discuss the topic/subject and not have such a one-sided (you know more about the situation than the limited information MS presented, upon which limited information rodheadlee made comments) discussion about a couple the vast majority know nothing about.

Edited January 1, 2017 by provoman

[Tacenda]

I'll never forget an interview my husband and I had with my bishop right before getting the okay to marry in the temple. He told a story of a man that would come home daily for some afternoon delight, if you get my meaning. This guy expected her to stop what she was doing and take care of him. Maybe she was happy to do it, but in my estimation, it was probably difficult too. My bishop, bless his heart, was pretty much advising my husband that this wasn't right, thanks bishop! 

[MorningStar]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

You are ignoring what I said. He is probably addicted to sex not porn. He wouldn't need pictures of him and his wife making love if he was getting enough real love. I get that he violated her trust but at least he would rather look at her in pictures or video than go get some lovin' somewhere else.

My friend's husband is an alcoholic.  He almost died last year.  Maybe if her non-alcoholic beverages were more delicious, he wouldn't drink alcohol? 

My friend's husband doesn't "need" videos of them having sex.  No one needs videos of people having sex.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, provoman said:

It seems disingenuous to attack rodheadlee on this very specific couple; especially when it seems you know more about the situation than he does.  The rape, the violation, the vulgarity as you have claimed has not been posted previous.

Can we discuss the topic/subject and not have such a one-sided (you know more about the situation than the limited information MS presented, upon which limited information rodheadlee made comments) discussion about a couple the vast majority know nothing about.

I am not attacking Rod.  I am trying to understand his position and hoping he understands mine.  He is too good of a guy for me to even think he actually means what is implied by his comments, imo, so I am assuming miscommunication took place.  That is why I made what happened clearer as well as asked for clarification from Rod.

As to the first post, the secret taping without her knowledge was mentioned.  And I mentioned the other aspects in the later posts, underlining the significance of what MS said because I recognize that the first post could be confusing to some about the time.

But we can deal with only what MS referred to if Rod prefers (I can see how my lengthy response would make everyone uncomfortable, but I also think it is important to realize the implications of these kinds of actions as I have seen too many dismiss stuff as 'sex play').

One of the problems with porn is its effects are dismissed or blamed on something else, in this case it appears that Rod thinks the wife depriving the husband of physical expression led to porn.  I think it is important to realize that is rarely the case and even if it was in this case (which it wasn't), watching porn is one thing...videotaping your spouse having sex with you without her or his knowledge so you have essentially turned your spouse into another one of your porn objects should never been seen, imo, as "understandable". It is a reprehensible act for a spouse to do to their loved one.  It is that act I am flabbergasted that Rod sees as "understandable" as he is so respectful to women and his wife.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Calm

[MorningStar]

1 hour ago, provoman said:

It seems disingenuous to attack rodheadlee on this very specific couple; especially when it seems you know more about the situation than he does.  The rape, the violation, the vulgarity as you have claimed has not been posted previous.

Can we discuss the topic/subject and not have such a one-sided (you know more about the situation than the limited information MS presented, upon which limited information rodheadlee made comments) discussion about a couple the vast majority know nothing about.

Maybe I should have used the word "rape" instead of "wouldn't keep his hands to himself when requested", but the info is there.  Blaming the victim is offensive.  She was a good wife and mother.  I've seen women blamed countless times for their husbands' porn addictions and it's extremely hurtful because all of these women go through a phase where they blame themselves when it was never their fault.  The majority of these men were addicted before marriage.

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

I'm saying I understand his actions.

You understand why the husband was treating his wife as a sex object with no feelings?  How can you possibly understand his actions?  You don't even know him?  

[Calm]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

You are ignoring what I said. He is probably addicted to sex not porn. He wouldn't need pictures of him and his wife making love if he was getting enough real love. I get that he violated her trust but at least he would rather look at her in pictures or video than go get some lovin' somewhere else.

Porn is not sex, Rod.  The extremely quick gratification that makes the end result paramount and requires more and more extreme acts to trigger it for an addict, the lack of actual interaction with the other...the viewer of porn is just that, an observer.  People may treat sex like porn, but you can't do the reverse because there is no one there to interact with.  Porn would not satisfy him if what he wanted was physical sexual interaction with his wife.  He was using her as a porn object in addition to watching porn.  Iow, his sex life was being used to supplement his porn life by videotaping her, not the other way around.  It is confusing to me you think his videotaping was preferable given since it involved his wife and thus he was being 'faithful' to her when MS made it clear he wasn't because this was in addition to porn.

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

You are ignoring what I said. He is probably addicted to sex not porn. He wouldn't need pictures of him and his wife making love if he was getting enough real love. I get that he violated her trust but at least he would rather look at her in pictures or video than go get some lovin' somewhere else.

This is completely not true.  You need to do so some research before making claims.  Men don't take secret pictures of them having sex with others because they aren't getting enough sex.   Voyeurism is a psychosexual disorder. 

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Do you mean his rationalization of excusing his desire for his wife to participate in porn with him and to allow him to rape her?  Because honestly if you mean you actually understand his actions, his videotaping taping of his wife secretly, his attempt to rape her...well, I find that horrendous and repulsive.

You know it is okay to admit you misread or misunderstood what someone said?  I make that mistake all the time and I find it much better just to say "oops" than to try and justify what is sometimes unjustifiable.

We are not talking about his porn use, but actions his use of porn led him to commit. And from what MS has related about the story here and elsewhere, the wife was not refusing to express love and devotion to her husband through sexual acts.  She only began to refuse when he pushed past the boundaries of decency in videotaping her without her knowledge and attempting to rape her.

Will you state he was wrong to abuse her in such a way?  Do you think he had any excuse to do so?  Because from what you have said, it comes across as if you think he is justified and only doing what is right and natural in a loving relationship.  I can understand the first post on it if you missed the fact he secretly videotaped them having sex and thought he turned to porn after his wife rejected him, locked the door to avoid unwanted, though normal expressions of sexual attraction.  That misunderstanding could happen with the amount of info given at the time.  But what actually happened was the locked door came last so she could sleep at night secure that he wasn't going to try and rape her while she was asleep because that is what happened...and it wasn't just an attempt to cuddle either.  

Are you really saying you understand his attempted rape of his wife?  If so, please define what you mean by "understand" because it often means one is okay with something and I just can't believe you are condoning rape and secret videotaping (not as some sort of misguided surprise either, he lied to her about it and tried to hide his copies from her) even if you are giving that impression (and not just to me, btw, so I hope you are willing to explain your position in more detail).

I am hoping I have misunderstood and you are not trying to justify his acts because his wife wasn't loving enough towards him, either emotionally or sexually.  From what has been related here and elsewhere, this wasn't true.  They had kids and all other signs of a loving, physical relationship.  His videotaping her, lying about that to her and attempting to rape her were not a result of sexual deprivation but over exposure and desensitization due to his porn use.

It appears to me you were shocked by the fact she disliked him grabbing her and then her locking the door.  You seem to be under the impression that these were playful expression of affection instead of vulgar attacks of groping occurring at inappropritae times (though I can't imagine any appropriate time for what he was doing to her).  She felt violated because he was violating her, hurting her, not because she was reluctant to express love.  She was the one pushing for counseling so their relationship could be restored to a healhtly sexual relationship.

If you are offended because you think I think you are okay with raping one's wife and molesting her, please be assured that .I do not believe this, but am going to this length because it is important men and women understand what each other are saying about this topic, not only between husband and wife, but between friends because attitudes towards one's wife are often mirrored in one's treatment of the women around one (same with one's treatment of one's husband).  If one respects one, the other will likely be respected.  If not, then often respect is lacking in other relationships.

I'm saying it's a poor excuse to dump him. I'm saying you are getting only one side of the story, I'm saying when I made my vows to stand beside my mate for better of for worse, in sickness and in health I meant it. How often will the safety card be played on the table of marriage to justify breaking your vows? If your mate has a contagious disease do you dump him or her for the safety of the family or do you spit in the eye of fate and do your best to nurse them back to health regardless of consequences to yourself. No analogy is perfect but where is the line? Is pornography addiction a disease or not?

This whole safe place thing is a canard, there is no safe place in this world. Life causes death. The only safe place is in the arms of the Savior which is why there are so many singles well into their 30s. If you don't meet certain criteria you are not an acceptable LDS mate. It's no wonder we have porn epidemic in the Utah Church we have a bunch of people that spend the first half of their sexually available lives beating their hormones down with a baseball bat in order to go to University and go on a mission and become acceptable to LDS female mates.. Then when they can't find the perfect mate or have been turned down multiple times they retreat into their basement, or worse yet Mom's basement and play video games and watch porn. The women will accept no lesser mate than Christ, they will serve no male, except Christ. It's a caricature, so don't CFR me .  It's a direct consequence of the Church culture in Utah and perhaps the USA. The dating and mating years are supposed to begin at the end of puberty, not in your early 30's.