Word Of Wisdom Poll

[mnn727]

If my life-long healthiness (firm/clear adherence to the laws of physical/"temporal" health) suggest that I have been supremely diligent in my efforts (I've been active, I've been sports involved, I've done resistance training, I've been aerobically active, I've eaten quality foods (and in proper amounts/balance) ... how should that isolate/separate me from other Saints who hit the Cheesecake factory every Saturday night and consume 1800 calories of nonsense food, and who weigh in at 350 lbs, and who sport a 30-50%+ body fat value?

How does that separate you? it makes you healthier and more flexible than those you speak of.

It is primarily a Temporal law,  the benefits are likewise temporal.

I believe however that it is a spiritual law in the obedience sense, are we willing to give up a share of the world to follow Christ and how far?

 

Also, there is much more at work in a persons: body mass, shape, health than just calories

Edited November 6, 2014 by mnn727

[ELF1024]

I follow it completely as laid out by a former Bishop of mine, and I avoid these things:

Tea

Alcohol

Coffee

Tobacco

Sodas like Coke and Pepsi are not part of the Word of Wisdom, and the Bishop told me he has no idea where the idea of including those in things to be avoided even came up. So I do drink sodas.

 

Ditto. Same here.

[Teancum]

This thread shows how so much in religion is really man made.

 

Do you really think that if there is a being powerful enough to create this Universe it cares what you drink and eat in order to be with it/him/her?  Think about it.

 

And look at how inconsistent the Church has been and is with this. Brigham had a brewery. Joseph drank wine and other such beverages. The WOW says drinks from barley are good...uh in other words beer. Heber comes along and makes a small part of it a rule to get into the temple.  uhhhh ok....

 

And now we focus on a small part of it.  An obese Mormon who does not drink tea or other no no beverages can go to the temple.   But what defiles the temple of our spirits more.  A glass of wine a day or a couple beers or being way over weight. 

 

More power to you if you really think some God is behind this.

[Kenngo1969]

Really?  I can't use the name of a classic English author?  The ****s make it look like I wrote something dirty.

I know!  Personally, it bugs the Richard-ens out of me!

 

[JLHPROF]

This thread shows how so much in religion is really man made.

 

More power to you if you really think some God is behind this.

 

Oh, God is behind it, but our application of the WoW has very little of God in it.

 

...maybe that was God's plan in revealing it all along.

[Kenngo1969]

This thread shows how so much in religion is really man made.

 

Do you really think that if there is a being powerful enough to create this Universe it cares what you drink and eat in order to be with it/him/her?  Think about it.

 

And look at how inconsistent the Church has been and is with this. Brigham had a brewery. Joseph drank wine and other such beverages. The WOW says drinks from barley are good...uh in other words beer. Heber comes along and makes a small part of it a rule to get into the temple.  uhhhh ok....

 

And now we focus on a small part of it.  An obese Mormon who does not drink tea or other no no beverages can go to the temple.   But what defiles the temple of our spirits more.  A glass of wine a day or a couple beers or being way over weight. 

 

More power to you if you really think some God is behind this.

I think the time we sometimes get into trouble (and heck, there are probably some General Authorities included in that "we") is when we attempt, as Elder Dallin H. Oaks said, to attach reason to revelation.  Could we all do better at living the Word of Wisdom?  Perhaps.  Are we all, to a greater or lesser degree, sinners?  Sure.  Are there contributors on the Board who are better men and women than I am, even though I have a temple recommend and many of them don't?  Without a doubt.

 

A lot of us tend to want most of the blessings that come from living the Gospel to accrue to us, or the punishment that supposedly is in store for others who do not live it to accrue to them, in this life when it ain't necessarily so.  There are people who have the occasional beer or glass of wine who are a heck of a lot better off, at least in material terms, than I am, but petulantly stamping my foot when I get on the other side and I'm waiting at the Judgment Bar and telling the Lord of the Universe, "See! I knew you loved him better than you love me!" ain't gonna cut it.

 

Yet, on the other hand, there are a lot of things that I don't have to worry about by virtue of living the Gospel that many other people do: serious addiction and the poverty, interpersonal challenges, and other problems that often go with it; sexually-transmitted diseases; frayed (or even fractured) relationships caused by promiscuity or infidelity; et cetera.  But even if I don't have to worry about those problems by virtue of my own choices, that doesn't mean that I'm spared the consequences of others choices, or simply the vicissitudes that come from living in a mortal, fallen world.

 

When it comes right down to it, while being spared certain challenges by a choice to live the Gospel certainly will avoid making someone's life harder than it needs to be in certain respects, living the Gospel isn't a quid pro quo proposition: God isn't Santa Claus.  He doesn't give me "presents" when I'm on the "Nice" List or withhold them when I'm on the "Naughty" List.  Job didn't say, "Lord, I'll live the Gospel as long as you keep me on the 'Nice' List and give me 'presents.'"  He said, "Til. I die, I will not remove my integrity from me" (Job 27:5).  Yes, Nephi said, "I will go and do the things which the Lord commandeth, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandment unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them to accomplish the thing which He commandeth them" (1 Nephi 3:7), but that doesn't mean he didn't have to deal with serious persecution at the hands of his annoying (and worse!) big brothers.  Why did Adam offer sacrifices?  Because that's what an angel of the Lord commanded him to do, full stop (see Moses 5:18).  Why do I obey the Word of Wisdom and the other principles of the Gospel?  Does doing these things fill my soul?  Yes.  Do I believe doing these things will bear good fruit in my life ... at the very least, do I believe that doing them will bear good fruit in the next life, if not in this one?  Yes.  But at bottom, I live the Gospel because I have covenanted to do so (again, full stop).  I made a promise to God, period.  And as with so many principles of the Gospel, whatever temporal blessings accrue to us for our obedience thereof, the main blessings that accrue to us are spiritual, including blessings relative to obedience to the Word of Wisdom (see Doctrine & Covenants 89:18-21).

[Brian 2.0]

Sorry if this has been covered already in this thread...  but is the WoW to be understood fully as a law of health and nothing else.  Circumcision wasn't for health reasons, but to set apart the covenant people.  Can the WoW be viewed in this way or is the revelation strictly to the betterment of the health of our bodies and all items on it will aide in that?

[Calm]

I see it as primarily a law to set us apart. Notice the things chosen...the very social at the time and even now save smoking, social life revolves around coffee, tea, and alcohol. Add in tobacco and you instantly have people who are acting differently all the time, will less likely go places temptation occurs, etc. For health, tobacco is really the only one across the board bad as far as we know. In moderation the other three may be okay for most people, though in this day and age now with the epidemic of sleep problems and deprivation, I suspect the body has become much more sensitive to the effect of all three with the last making a deadly combination...driving home sleepy with alcohol...it is like adding several glasses. Caffeine is likely to interfere with quality of sleep if taken less than 10 hours before bedtime and they have studies showing taking hot tea as they do in the Mideast iirc is correlated to throat cancer.

So my opinion is the main focus were chosen to set Mormons apart quickly and eventually the world would grow into an environment where the other aspects became a refuge of safety from the dangers of our society. I would not be surprised to see increased focus now on the more eating aspects as that is a huge health issue, but I see it as more likely approached like Sabbath day activity and personal pray, we are encouraged but leave it up to the individual to go to God to commit.

Edited December 19, 2014 by calmoriah

[Tacenda]

I see it as primarily a law to set us apart. Notice the things chosen...the very social at the time and even now save smoking, social life revolves around coffee, tea, and alcohol. Add in tobacco and you instantly have people who are acting differently all the time, will less likely go places temptation occurs, etc. For health, tobacco is really the only one across the board bad as far as we know. In moderation the other three may be okay for most people, though in this day and age now with the epidemic of sleep problems and deprivation, I suspect the body has become much more sensitive to the effect of all three with the last making a deadly combination...driving home sleepy with alcohol...it is like adding several glasses. Caffeine is likely to interfere with quality of sleep if taken less than 10 hours before bedtime and they have studies showing taking hot tea as they do in the Mideast iirc is correlated to throat cancer.

So my opinion is the main focus were chosen to set Mormons apart quickly and eventually the world would grow into an environment where the other aspects became a refuge of safety from the dangers of our society. I would not be surprised to see increased focus now on the more eating aspects as that is a huge health issue, but I see it as more likely approached like Sabbath day activity and personal pray, we are encouraged but leave it up to the individual to go to God to commit.

Speaking of caffeine, there are a lot of LDS that drink caffeine laced soda or energy drinks. Plus addictions to medications that have adverse reactions.

[PurpleMinion]

"Hot drinks" does not refer to coffee and tea in my humble opinion. As a convert, I can tell you, and anyone who has ever had a shot of vodka can tell you, hard alcohol burns like the fiery depths of hell going down. Seems to me to be a re-iteration of avoiding "strong" drinks. That being said, I still don't drink coffee/tea because of my husband. I miss it all the time.

 

As for the less meat more grain issue, my household has recently taken on a low carb, high protein diet, essentially eliminating grains, and meat is the staple of most meals. And I have watched first hand my health and my husband's health improve like you wouldn't believe. I've watched my mother naturally keep her high blood pressure at bay with a couple of glasses of wine a week, without becoming an alcoholic I might add. In the past I have used coffee for its natural pain relieving properties, which I figure to be a better option than narcotics.

 

Does any of this discredit the WoW? I don't think so. It is my personal opinion and revelation that the spirit of the law is, all things in moderation. Except for things like tobacco and other harmful drugs, probably should avoid those

[HappyJackWagon]

I've never partaken of...

 

Illegal drugs

Coffee/tea

Alcohol

Tobacco

 

Limited meat intake

Adequate sleep

Not enough exercise

 

I've followed this strictly throughout my life though now I view the WoW more as counsel and current policy more than a commandment. For heavens sake the WoW itself says it's given as counsel and not commandment. Somehow the church has strayed from that to the point that many view breaking the WoW as next to sexual sin in seriousness.

[diamondintherough]

I haven't read this thread but need to respond to HappyJack.  This comes right from lds.org, yw manual:

 

To be sure the young women know that the Word of Wisdom is a binding commandment for us today, read the following:

“The reason undoubtedly why the Word of Wisdom was given—as not by ‘commandment or restraint’ was that at that time, at least, if it had been given as a commandment it would have brought every man, addicted to the use of these noxious things, under condemnation; so the Lord was merciful and gave them a chance to overcome, before He brought them under the law. Later on, it was announced from this stand, by President Brigham Young, that the Word of Wisdom was a revelation and a command of the Lord. I desired to mention that fact, because I do not want you to feel that we are under no restraint. We do not want to come under condemnation” (Joseph F. Smith, in Conference Report, Oct. 1913, p. 14).

[HappyJackWagon]

 

D&C 89

 1 A Word of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

 2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

 

 

need to respond to HappyJack

 

The church has accepted as doctrine/canon the D&C which includes the WoW, not the LDS.org YW manual. Others can interpret what the WoW means for them and the church can set policy for how it ought to be followed, such as making it a requirement for entering the temple, but that doesn't change the fact that JS gave the WoW, not as a constraint or commandment. The church can treat it differently now if it chooses,  but it was not given as a commandment.

 

The quote you share from BY would indicate that JS was wrong as he provided the revelation. You are welcome to think that if you want but the WoW wasn't required to be followed during BY's tenure as prophet, and didn't become part of the temple recommend questions until the 1920's. Surely it didn't take until the 1920's for all the original members with addictions to die off so that the commandment could be fair.

 

Also, couldn't we use that same fairness idea for investigators and allow them to be baptized while they work to overcome their addiction.

 

Is anyone aware of any other commandment that was given to men by God with the caviat that they weren't really expected to keep it because it would be too hard? I've heard that reasoning for years and it doesn't hold water.

 

Bottom line- WoW was not intended to be a commandment.

                    WoW is now considered a commandment, though I'm not sure there is a revelation that could be cited.

[Teancum]

Oh, God is behind it, but our application of the WoW has very little of God in it.

 

...maybe that was God's plan in revealing it all along.

 

Nah you just need to tell yourself God is behind it.  Early Mormons consumed wine, beer, coffee and tea.   Sorry but it is the case. The TR requirements came from a man who was angry about prohibition and the fact the Utah overturned it.

 

And now we see a few beers or a glass of wine a day is very good for you.  As coffee and tea.  So now Mormons who  used to claim divine directive based on health benefits have to back peddle and many now say it is simple a principle of obedience.

 

Oh you bet.  Move the goal posts in order to maintain testimony.  It is a wonderful thing,.

[Teancum]

I see it as primarily a law to set us apart.....

 

 

Yes  Mormons argue this now..... because many of the health benefits that used to be argued are not correct,

[Teancum]

Sorry if this has been covered already in this thread...  but is the WoW to be understood fully as a law of health and nothing else.  Circumcision wasn't for health reasons, but to set apart the covenant people.  Can the WoW be viewed in this way or is the revelation strictly to the betterment of the health of our bodies and all items on it will aide in that?

 

 

Where in WOW does it argue that is for us to be set apart?   And then why did the early Church leaders including JS not adhere to it very well?

[Scott Lloyd]

Yes  Mormons argue this now..... because many of the health benefits that used to be argued are not correct,

Such as?

[intra]

here is my firm position, standing on the Rock.

was Jesus not clear enough for you? 

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
(Matthew 15:11) 

if Jesus was unclear, will you believe His apostle? 
 

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

(Colossians 2:16-23) 

i am curious to know how that seeing what the scriptures say, you are able to ignore them and subject yourself to men whose commands are contrary to those of the risen Lord? 


 

[Calm]

23 posts in 8 hours….must be a new record for new posters...

[Teancum]

Such as?

Such as coffee and tea have significant health benefits and such as wine or beer in moderation is very good for you.

Also Mormons will happily obey the TRUTH question parts of the WoW but still many will eat way to much meat, too much sugar, become way over weight and still think they ar keeping the WoW.

Which is more unhealthy. A glass of wine or a beer a day or being 50 pounds or more over weight?

[ERayR]

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

(Matthew 15:11) 

 

 

never mind.

Edited December 22, 2014 by ERayR

[cursor]

I never do cheesecake.

I never consume more than 800 calories in a single sitting ... depending on the quality of food selection, of course. That means nutrient value, not "want."

I always eat breakfast.

I frequently fast (strategically).

I always work out (resistance training being the focus).

I avoid juices and I don't consume soft drinks.

I pay serious attention to quality proteins, carbohydrates, fats, etc.

I drink a ton of water.

 

All other points seem minuscule to me with respect to human health and prolonged life.

 

Daily tea consumption vs. McWhatever crap. Give me a break.

Daily coffee as compared to a pair of 32oz "diet" coke/pepsi's. Give me a break

Edited December 23, 2014 by cursor

[pogi]

I never do cheesecake.

 

Then you fundamentally misunderstand the law of happiness!

 

No, I actually agree with your last post from a health perspective.  

[Stargazer]

This thread shows how so much in religion is really man made.

 

Do you really think that if there is a being powerful enough to create this Universe it cares what you drink and eat in order to be with it/him/her?  Think about it.

 

And look at how inconsistent the Church has been and is with this. Brigham had a brewery. Joseph drank wine and other such beverages. The WOW says drinks from barley are good...uh in other words beer. Heber comes along and makes a small part of it a rule to get into the temple.  uhhhh ok....

 

And now we focus on a small part of it.  An obese Mormon who does not drink tea or other no no beverages can go to the temple.   But what defiles the temple of our spirits more.  A glass of wine a day or a couple beers or being way over weight. 

 

More power to you if you really think some God is behind this.

 

You're talking about me, again.

 

Obese WoW keeper, yes, that's me. 

 

But T, you don't understand the point of the whole thing.  The point is this: will you obey?  Keeping the WoW has definite physical benefits.  Not drinking Coca-Cola or Pepsi will be beneficial as well, but it isn't part of the WoW (my opinion, which happens to be correct, but YMMV).

 

When Israel was asked to keep the Law of Moses, including all those dietary restrictions and those offerings, the point of the whole thing was obedience.  Not the avoidance of trichinosis by not eating pork, for example.

 

We are being tested to see what we will do when we aren't being watched all the time.

[Stargazer]

Really?  I can't use the name of a classic English author?  The ****s make it look like I wrote something dirty.

 

Yes, very annoying.  I sometimes like to quote the physicist Richard Feynman.  Feynman actually preferred the nickname D i c k.