So, I like to drink

[poptart]

Curious, what do you drink?  If you do switch, maybe check out the Trinitarian branch of Christianity?  Christians make some of the best booze out there.  Also wow Europe has good drinking songs lol.

 

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

When members substitute with opioids because they can't drink a glass of wine at night.

Legally or illegally?  Because the second would be considered breaking the WoW as well.

[mnn727]

19 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 The Bible requires interpretation, and it contains a diversity of claims.

Which is why you need the Book of Mormon and also modern scripture and living Prophets.

[LisaALu]

On 3/28/2019 at 11:05 AM, readstoomuch said:

LisaAlu,

I am that counselor that we try to get to renew your temple recommend in my ward.  Two of my kids have stopped going to church and one is getting a divorce.  My two younger ones are doing well at this point.  I think it is fine to say that you need more time or that you don’t feel ready right now.  You probably have to decide whether you want to then follow up with the bishop.  We try to respect people needing space.  There are worse things then drinking, but it does hinder the spirit.  

I don’t think we ever know when our children are truly lost.  God loves them and loves you.  Our bishop is the most loving man around and honestly that is how bishops have treated me for the last 57 years.  The path and life does seem to go easier when we live the commandments, even though we don’t live them perfectly.  I certainly have my faults, but for me the WoW has not been one of them.  My children are good people/descent human beings.  We don’t know their path or what happens in the spirit world when we get there.  Make sure that you are doing the basics like reading the scriptures and praying morning and night.  Come Follow Me has been great for me.  This will help you feel the spirit and be able to be strengthened.  None of us actually knows how this is all works after this life, but I testify that Christ is real and that through his powerful atonement, we will all be made whole.  

I really respect your being real and sincere, even if it is anonymous.  I hope you and your husband will feel His love as you find your way.  

I am that counselor that we try to get to renew your temple recommend in my ward.

readstoomuch- thank you for this answer, helped a lot. I have reached out to the councilor and said I wanted more time. His response was "thank you, let me know when you are ready"

I thought this would be the hard part, but it's just begun... Lots to think about. 

[Rain]

On 3/29/2019 at 12:42 PM, LisaALu said:

I am that counselor that we try to get to renew your temple recommend in my ward.

readstoomuch- thank you for this answer, helped a lot. I have reached out to the councilor and said I wanted more time. His response was "thank you, let me know when you are ready"

I thought this would be the hard part, but it's just begun... Lots to think about. 

❤

[Stargazer]

On 3/27/2019 at 5:11 PM, LisaALu said:

Born and raised LDS, married in the Temple...the whole 9 yards.  Well....except I like to drink, sometimes socially, other times to "make things go away".  

My nonmember parents drank socially, but I never saw either of them "drunk" except once, when my Dad overindulged for some reason, but he was just tipsy (and rather amusing).  They kept some alcohol in the home in the "liquor cabinet", and there were a few times that I sneaked a drink of wine (not the hard stuff).  Dad got an important promotion at work once, brought home a bottle of champagne and I got rationed out a champagne glass of it!  It was great!  I think I was mostly pleased to be drinking an adult beverage.

I joined the church when I was 14. It was just me, as my parents weren't interested.   I was very serious about keeping the WoW, even when I was inactive for about 3 years.  Except when I turned 18, which happened when were living in England, my Dad asked a favor of me, which was to let him buy me my first and last drink.  I consented, so he bought me a Cointreau, and I rather liked it.  To this day that is still my first and last drink, if you don't count my pre-baptism sneaks and the champagne.  I've had some fellow members of the church ask me if I felt ashamed of having gone along with him, but as hard as I have tried to be ashamed of it, I have never been.  It almost felt like something I needed to do for him.   I'm still wondering if I've truly repented of it!

I think that it is a matter of how serious do you take the blessings of full participation in the Gospel as currently revealed.  The WoW isn't the Gospel, of course -- when I was young in the Church it seemed to me that some members thought it was of tremendous importance.  To me, now, it is just something that is a part of me, that I refrain from drinking alcoholic beverages.  I'll admit that I wouldn't mind the occasional drink. I rather like wine -- even though my experience with it is very limited.  Beer is crap.  When I was a kid I'd get an occasional sip from indulgent adults -- I didn't like it.

I don't know what else to say, except to wish you well in your journey!

 

 

[Stargazer]

On 3/28/2019 at 8:53 PM, poptart said:

Curious, what do you drink?  If you do switch, maybe check out the Trinitarian branch of Christianity?  Christians make some of the best booze out there.  Also wow Europe has good drinking songs lol.

You crack me up!  

 

[gregory_underscore]

On 3/27/2019 at 11:11 AM, LisaALu said:

Born and raised LDS, married in the Temple...the whole 9 yards.  Well....except I like to drink, sometimes socially, other times to "make things go away".  My husband and I started on a vacation 17 years ago, and justified that since it was out of the country....we went every other year, came back, prayed for forgiveness and moved on.  But in the last 2-3 years we have become far more involved.  We can go 4-5 months and then binge for 2 weeks.  Then we set a new time frame and start over.  We don't go to the Temple because we feel that we shouldn't.  So here is the thing...our recommends are 3 days from expiring and the counselor is bugging us to schedule.  STUCK!  TO be clear, neither of us have an issue with doctrine, Joseph Smith or Priesthood....or any of the other usual things.  We have always clung to our faith.  So what we have  in a sense going on, is that we want our cake and to eat it too.  The dilemma is what to do about the counselor.  If we don't go within a certain time for a renewal, we hit the Bishops radar...if we get called in, he's going to want to know why. I am not ready to come clean, I don't want help.  But I don't want to lie in a sacred interview.  To add to the mix, we are going to Europe and plan on drinking a lot of wine.  Later this year another vacation where we will be drinking a lot.  If you are wondering, no, it's not alcoholism on either side...it's that binge thing.  We hold out and then binge in our "off" time.  Knowing that we have no intention of quitting this year...I feel I am stuck with 2 choices.  First, come clean to the Bishop, and deal with consequences, such as being removed from our callings (we have limited our other activities such as Temple and off and on with Sacrament) OR we lie...(it's hard to write that).  If we just get through those interviews, we are off anyones radar while we continue to seek our way through this mess we made.  I want the whole Eternity thing.  My husband is more of a closed book and can't say what he wants.  He wants me...for ever, but he is hurt by the church....I should say WE are hurt by people in the church...their cultural stupidity and not doctrine..  Our 4 children have all opted out, my husband says "if they aren't going to be there, why would I work so hard to be there" of course he doesn't mean that about me.  So it's complicated.  We know the people aren't true, but the church is.  But boy can they do damage.  So I am looking for thoughts. Ps, anyone know how to ask the counselor for time without it going on the Bishops agenda?

For me, sin is most appealing when its secret. My advice is to go to the bishop's interview and be honest than go do your thing and figure out what you truly want. If you lie or run away from your current obligations and still continue to drink you'll never know if its the forbidden aspect or the cowardice that draws you to it. Basically figure it out with logos from Christ let your yes be your yes and your no be your no. 

[poptart]

4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You crack me up!  

 

At least i'm honest and hey, monks make good stuff.  Not the Lords fault that most of his followers, esp. this side of the pond tend to suck. 

 

[snowflake]

13 hours ago, poptart said:

At least i'm honest and hey, monks make good stuff.  Not the Lords fault that most of his followers, esp. this side of the pond tend to suck. 

 

According to the text of the W.O.W. beer should be fine to consume.

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Mild barley drinks are fine!

[Stargazer]

20 minutes ago, snowflake said:

According to the text of the W.O.W. beer should be fine to consume.

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Mild barley drinks are fine!

I actually agree with you.  There are actually nonalcoholic malt drinks out there, too.

 

[poptart]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

According to the text of the W.O.W. beer should be fine to consume.

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Mild barley drinks are fine!

 

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

I actually agree with you.  There are actually nonalcoholic malt drinks out there, too.

 

Wait, what?  Beer is ok?  Why didn't the missionaries tell me that?

[gregory_underscore]

It is idiotic to think beer was against the WoW. Beer was the most calorie dense drink and was an absolute necessity for workers before the industrial revolution. If you worked in a mine or fields for 12+ hours burning five thousand or plus of calories there was no way to get enough calories any other way. Now since prohibition we believing in sustaining the law so beer became banned now is it as bad as hard liquor? Of course not but it is now against church teachings to drink it, I believe this is more policy not a doctrine but if you believe this is the restored church giving you eternal life and disregard policy in search for temporal satisfaction you are in an unprofitable servant.

[The Nehor]

21 hours ago, poptart said:

 

Wait, what?  Beer is ok?  Why didn't the missionaries tell me that?

Possibly was, it is not now unless the prophet alters it at some point.

[poptart]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Possibly was, it is not now unless the prophet alters it at some point.

Whelp, there went the brownie points i was going to hand out...

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, poptart said:

Whelp, there went the brownie points i was going to hand out...

Stay tuned. There is a strong possibility that something about the Word of Wisdom will be mentioned this weekend. Probably not what you are wanting though. God seems particularly keen on sobriety in this dispensation.....presumably because of how dangerous this dispensation is.

Edited April 2, 2019 by The Nehor

[poptart]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Stay tuned. There is a strong possibility that something about the Word of Wisdom will be mentioned this weekend. Probably not what you are wanting though. God seems particularly keen on sobriety in this dispensation.....presumably because of how dangerous this dispensation is.

Wouldn't matter much, still not really fond of religious people in general.  If they were as cool as people here yeah, know thats not happening.

[Stargazer]

On 4/1/2019 at 5:52 PM, poptart said:

 

Wait, what?  Beer is ok?  Why didn't the missionaries tell me that?

No, it's not OK.  🙂  It's just the opinion of some members that beer seems to fall under an exception.

[Stargazer]

On 4/2/2019 at 2:56 PM, gregory_underscore said:

It is idiotic to think beer was against the WoW. Beer was the most calorie dense drink and was an absolute necessity for workers before the industrial revolution. If you worked in a mine or fields for 12+ hours burning five thousand or plus of calories there was no way to get enough calories any other way. Now since prohibition we believing in sustaining the law so beer became banned now is it as bad as hard liquor? Of course not but it is now against church teachings to drink it, I believe this is more policy not a doctrine but if you believe this is the restored church giving you eternal life and disregard policy in search for temporal satisfaction you are in an unprofitable servant.

You're kind of correct, but not quite fully on-target.  Bread and beer were important for energy, yes, but beer was also important for safe hydration, water being sometimes subject to bacterial contamination that the alcohol in beer would kill.  

[Stargazer]

On 4/2/2019 at 9:17 PM, The Nehor said:

Stay tuned. There is a strong possibility that something about the Word of Wisdom will be mentioned this weekend. Probably not what you are wanting though. God seems particularly keen on sobriety in this dispensation.....presumably because of how dangerous this dispensation is.

Why do you think there's a strong possibility about this?  Are you hearing rumors of something?

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Why do you think there's a strong possibility about this?  Are you hearing rumors of something?

Yes, I am.

[poptart]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

No, it's not OK.  🙂  It's just the opinion of some members that beer seems to fall under an exception.

Their loss. 

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You're kind of correct, but not quite fully on-target.  Bread and beer were important for energy, yes, but beer was also important for safe hydration, water being sometimes subject to bacterial contamination that the alcohol in beer would kill.  

Big thing back in the day was contaminated water, beer was literally the staff of life in liquid form. People did try to improve on things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot

 

See, this is yet another reason why after the stint I had with the Christian religion I said nope and walked right on away.  Seen Christians here stateside get so upset over this stuff then go out of their way to slander and in some cases try to ruin the career of the person they had a grievence with.  Go on all you like about #notallchristians, when this happens enough anyone with half a brain decides something like religion isn't worth it and either becomes a cultural christian like I am or just becomes a none.  Google the decline of Christianity, can go on all you like about growth in the 3rd world, it's people here in the first world who tithe and keep the lights on.  People here for the most part aren't willing to tithe like their ancestors did nor would be happy with having a church tax like they still have in parts of Europe.  Can't have your cake and eat it too.  Really, all this means little to me, pious infighting is fun to laugh at from afar, it's you guys and gals who have a stake in all this who are going to suffer, especially your children.

Edited April 4, 2019 by poptart

[Stargazer]

On 4/4/2019 at 4:19 PM, The Nehor said:

Yes, I am.

I'll keep my ears peeled, then.