poptart

That's exactly what I'm getting at. I know many of them are quite well off, have generational wealth and are very, very capable people. I have a knack for spotting not so obvious qualities that most people would not see. There is that genuine goodness that always catches me by surprise. It reminds me of family back home and friends I have from Japan, a few come from well off families with samurai ancestry, they are the most down to earth people but not only are they well off, they've either served in the military, corporate or both. They are content to live humble quiet lives, are active in their community and give back. It's something I've very rarely seen here in the mainland.

I've noticed a difference between the pioneer stock who still lives in rural towns vs. the ones in affluent areas. For me it goes beyond the city vs. rural divide. They seem very genuine. Also, some of them are incredibly wealthy landowners, you would never know unless you had an idea what to look for. THat's the other thing, very self reliant and willing to share. Mmmm, these were in AZ and WY, I suspect it's the same in Utah. Best way I can put it, these were the members mom would talk about, the genuinely good ones who will go out of their way to help and feed a stranger. I've been unfortunate in life, it really is hard to meet good people if you aren't part of the culture, to be fair I get it with how times are you have to be protective of your own. It was like, meeting a unicorn of sorts. One in question was in AZ, Grand Canyon National Park, day before I hiked all the way down than back up. (Don't do that unless you're in very good shape and prepared, I made it fine but....not everyone does..) Anyway, day before mom met someone who I would have never suspected was a member, the ones I knew years ago tended to be rich and entitled, would not give the likes of me the time of day. Once the walls came down she gave us all kinds of advice. Here a lot of folks just assume moms from one of the reservations so maybe that helped. For whatever reason, mom still has a knack for finding decent people, I give her upbringing the credit for it. The member lived close by, owned a loooot of land and yep, was quite well off, you would have never known. I could tell she was quite capable and smart, thing is I could feel the goodness. I'm really the first one to grow up in the mainland so I never did really assimilate in the culture here so in general outside of my bubble I've really not met people like that, I could feel the goodness. That's the only way I can describe it. Hope that makes sense.

Hello, Starting to learn more about the Pioneer stock members who still live in rural parts of AZ, WY and Utah vs. the ones who moved to the cities a few generations ago. Was on vacation a few years ago and ran into a few of em, moms a BYUH alumni and was able to chat them up, they were very very different from what I've experienced in the past. Also, apparently, I do have LDS cousins in those areas. The ones we chit chatted with were very nice and hospitable, quite well off but you would never know it; they were so down to earth. Since mom and I never had stakes in the politics that goes with that stuff, I've had non member cousins who usually gate keep like crazy "let us in" on that side. Would really appreciate it if someone could educate me a bit on that flavor of LDS member, it's changing my mind on what I thought was a done deal. Thanks, happy Thursday!

Personal fav, also one way I practice my Japanese/Kanji.

It is amazing what E.Asia is turning out these days.

I suspect many may share similar sentiments these days, this too shall pass.

I have a few Google accounts for that reason, I look for a lot of things in Japanese, some Chinese. If you can read kanji, you can figure out a lot of Chinese since it's the same. I get stuff like this sometimes.

Hanging in there, yourself?

Oh absolutely! To add to this, considering the times good luck with supply lines and yep, no worthy strategic alliances. Biggest thing of all though were the samurai. Japan wasn't exactly united, When the Jesuits showed up Nobunaga was busy unifying (With a crazy amount of solders with muskets) Japan, his main interest was how they could help him deal with Ikko Ikki and of course trade for more firearms, till then they were still manufacturing ones based on Chinese firearms. Something about the Japanese, when push comes to shove they've historically united as one, fast. The founder of Hokke-shu/Nichiren Buddhism, Nichiren Shonin made a work called Rissho Ankoku Ron, establishing the correct teachings of the land. That was made when Kublai Khan almost invaded, that was one great uniting event. Other thing, their wars with Korean and everyone else. People underestimate just how aggressive and mean the samurai could be, they were no joke. Here, from an old NHK series on Nobunaga Oda, I've watched the whole series, good stuff. Great example of the warfare samurai were doing when the Jesuits showed up.

The Chaldean/Assyrian Orthodox are a very, very interesting study, right up there with the St. Thomas Christians. Supposedly the Nestorians even made it to Japan, a few Mongol Emissaries who were Nestorians were executed at the Tatsunokuchi grounds outside of Kamakura. Fun fact, Temujin (Genghis) Khan's boss, Wang Khan was a Nestorian Christian. This was not lost on the Daimyo in Japan, the monks on mt. Hiei saved records of those times. When the Jesuits showed up, folks started asking questions. Between the Mongols and the non stop wars Japan had a crazy amount of firearms, ohh boy the samurai loved guns. If it wasn't for that I suspect the Portuguese and Spaniards would have tried what they did in S.America.

You may find this interesting. Hong Kong Institute of Jingjiao Studies – Jingjiao – for those who feel deeply Chinese and deeply Christian

I figured as much, it's not so much they're less aggressive, they prefer to stick with those who have the same confessions, everyone's on the same page. Also nope, not saved by works, saved by Grace through Faith. Whole point of the Augsburg Confession (which is all backed by Holy Scripture) is to justify this. You still have to do good works, that's how you show the world you're a Christian. Another issue, once the OG German/Northern Euro Americans lost their roots, a lot of the US Churches followed so yep, it's not as common. Across the Pond, in Canada, Australia and E.Asia? Different story. Hmm, that's up to you. If you're interested, here you go. Augsburg Confession - Wikipedia The Augsburg Confession · BookOfConcord.org -Pro tip, stick with the 1530 version, the later one is what started a lot of problems, ones that ended up coming to the USA thanks to the 30 years war. Here's what the Anglicans had, not really my thing but I've known Anglican clergy who still adhere to this strictly. Book of Common Prayer - Wikipedia Here's a personal favorite. Jordan B Cooper - Home Enjoy! BTW, here's the part in the Book of Concord that addresses the issue of faith and works, all backed by Scripture. IV. Good Works | Book of Concord

What circles of people have you had these discussions with? Were they mostly non denominational Evangelicals? Low Church Protestants?

While I normally don't bother with topics like this for personal reasons, I'll bite because I have to ask, do any of these Protestant apologetics people discuss things like the Augsburg Confessions, Book of Common Prayer, Book of Concord etc. And the politics and wars that came about during those times? Why does it seem like Protestant apologists never seem to mention this? Why folks like the LCMS were and still are huge on the Confessions because of what happened to em in Prussia and even here a few times? I ask because a lot of these guys seem to conveniently leave out those details. There are times I wonder if they are leaving things like that out on purpose or if they really aren't as knowledgeable as they claim. Quick edit, I do have a few friends in the mainline world, mostly Lutheran, Anglican etc. It is amazing how different things used to be. I really do think a lot of Protestants here have no idea what was lost. If the USA still had what it lost, I think it would be a much, much better country. In Germany and a lot of the Nordic Countries they still have that spirit of working together regardless of differences.