Eat Meat Sparingly

[thesometimesaint]

9 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Thanks! I really liked the idea of sparingly = sparing the animal's life. It's one of those things that I feel should have been obvious to me, but really wasn't without the quote. It makes me rethink my journey with(out) meat and wonder if at least some of it was part of following the Spirit more than I give it credit.

 

With luv,

BD

Do plants not deserve to live?

[BlueDreams]

3 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Do plants not deserve to live?

They do. Unless they're the weeds in my garden. In which case they must die and I will end their life with my bare hands!

In all seriousness plants do live as a vegetarian. Most of my garden plants go through their full life development while or after I harvest. They die naturally, not by my hand. And many of their fruit are formed specifically to be eaten to be distributed. Except root plants, nothing in my garden is "cut short" in lifespan. 

Plus not eating meat does save other plants since the meat we eat, is more energy costly in both terms to the land, plant life, and environment as a whole. We don't do sustainable meat production, though there are exceptions (like the church's cattle farm in Florida). And if we did we would naturally have to eat a lot less. 

I know this is in jest mostly, but behind the goofy question the answer is that the lowest impact diet on plants and animals is a vegan one followed by a vegetarian one. 

With luv, 

BD

[SeekingUnderstanding]

8 hours ago, JAHS said:

Yep I agree and that was a good article. It seems to me that if it were meant to say we should only eat meat in times of cold famine or winter there would have been a word like "except"  instead of the comma

"And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used except in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."

As Royal Skousen and Jane Birch both point out in the linked article only's meaning has changed overtime and when the revelation was given it was read as except. That this apparently produces cognitive dissonance for you is no reason to disregard the plain meaning of the text. 

[Mystery Meat]

9 hours ago, JAHS said:

Yep I agree and that was a good article. It seems to me that if it were meant to say we should only eat meat in times of cold famine or winter there would have been a word like "except"  instead of the comma

"And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used except in times of winter, or of cold, or famine."

Only is synonymous with except, especially in 19th century English....

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

As Royal Skousen and Jane Birch both point out in the linked article only's meaning has changed overtime and when the revelation was given it was read as except. That this apparently produces cognitive dissonance for you is no reason to disregard the plain meaning of the text. 

Why the insult? I am not disregarding the plain meaning of the text; I agree with it. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by JAHS

[MDalby]

This is a common misunderstanding among the Church.  It is CLEAR what is meant here when reading with the same 1800s English intent.

Let me help with the correct interpretation...  

eat meat sparingly = eat spare ribs.

 

 

[Mystery Meat]

17 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Why the insult? I am not disregarding the plain meaning of the text; I agree with it. I didn't see the part where they said only means except.

But it does. That is in fact what it means. Let's examine another passage:

Quote

 36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

Either only here means that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled exclusively by the principles of righteousness (and that there are other principles upon which it can be controlled) or it means that they (the powers of heaven) cannot be controlled nor handled, except by the principles of righteousness. Which one makes more sense to you?

In other words, in 19th Century English, the word only had a common second meaning in addition to showing exclusivity; it was also used to show an exception. The argument you are making is that meat should not be eaten exclusively in the winter, or in times of famine or hunger. But when read in context and as understood by the modern day prophets, both early and more recent, only was used as an exception.

[JAHS]

11 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

But it does. That is in fact what it means. Let's examine another passage:

Either only here means that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled exclusively by the principles of righteousness (and that there are other principles upon which it can be controlled) or it means that they (the powers of heaven) cannot be controlled nor handled, except by the principles of righteousness. Which one makes more sense to you?

In other words, in 19th Century English, the word only had a common second meaning in addition to showing exclusivity; it was also used to show an exception. The argument you are making is that meat should not be eaten exclusively in the winter, or in times of famine or hunger. But when read in context and as understood by the modern day prophets, both early and more recent, only was used as an exception.

Yeah. I agree with all this. If it's so simple I don't get why they say: If the “errant comma theory” is not plausible, what does D&C 89:13 mean? To date, there is no consensus of opinion. In fact, during the last eight decades the number of interpretations has multiplied."  Seems like someone would have figured this out before 80 years passed. 

[Mystery Meat]

1 minute ago, JAHS said:

Yeah. I agree with all this. If it's so simple I don't get why they say: If the “errant comma theory” is not plausible, what does D&C 89:13 mean? To date, there is no consensus of opinion. In fact, during the last eight decades the number of interpretations has multiplied."  Seems like someone would have figured this out before 80 years passed. 

I think prophets and apostles already have.

[thesometimesaint]

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

They do. Unless they're the weeds in my garden. In which case they must die and I will end their life with my bare hands!

In all seriousness plants do live as a vegetarian. Most of my garden plants go through their full life development while or after I harvest. They die naturally, not by my hand. And many of their fruit are formed specifically to be eaten to be distributed. Except root plants, nothing in my garden is "cut short" in lifespan. 

Plus not eating meat does save other plants since the meat we eat, is more energy costly in both terms to the land, plant life, and environment as a whole. We don't do sustainable meat production, though there are exceptions (like the church's cattle farm in Florida). And if we did we would naturally have to eat a lot less. 

I know this is in jest mostly, but behind the goofy question the answer is that the lowest impact diet on plants and animals is a vegan one followed by a vegetarian one. 

With luv, 

BD

As my mom used to say: "A weed is just a plant where I don't want it".

I have a garden. The tomatoes I harvest for my table are very much alive. Most animals people eat are grass fed at least initially. People normally don't eat grass. We can't digest it. Well maybe asparagus.

I agree we don't do animal husbandry in the US in a sustainable responsible way. Our physical health and economic health would be better if we did. I don't have a problem with vegetarians. It just looks like too much work to make sure they get all the essential vitamins, minerals, and proteins they need.

[Jeanne]

I have been on a good run and a nice bikeride.. in about 2 hours I will have a big juicy burger with cheese, tomatoes and onions speaking to me...it will say.."bite me"!  I say take care of yourself and enjoy life!  End of story.  Ooooo...forgot..the pickles!!!

[BlueDreams]

3 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

I have a garden. The tomatoes I harvest for my table are very much alive. Most animals people eat are grass fed at least initially. People normally don't eat grass. We can't digest it. Well maybe asparagus.

I agree we don't do animal husbandry in the US in a sustainable responsible way. Our physical health and economic health would be better if we did. I don't have a problem with vegetarians. It just looks like too much work to make sure they get all the essential vitamins, minerals, and proteins they need.

Most animals raised in feed lots are eating mostly grains (corn, soy, wheat) not grass. solely grass fed animals that we use as meat are rare in the US.

I find it odd that people find being veg work. Maybe slightly more vegan. But honestly I don't think about it at all and I'm more likely to get a wider range of vitamins, minerals and protein in a meal with far less fat, added sugar, and cholesterol. For example Jeanne has a burger with onion tomato and pickles and I assume a bun. I'm planning to have a cucumber, carrots, red bell pepper with hummus. And a side of watermelon, another type of melon, raspberries and strawberries. In one meal there's little to no food prep minus cutting some fruit/veggies. I've gotten more than my allotted amount of fruits and veggies, and some legumes (that's about half the pyramid) and had my fair share of vitamin a, c, b-6, dietary fiber, magnesium, iron, protein, potassium.That burger is a source of iron, protein, b-12, and a little magnesium/b-6. But it also is a chunky source of saturated fat, cholesterol, carbs (with little fiber or umph), and sodium. Meat isn't a miracle food and the foods you're replacing it with often have more balance (or just more) of vitamins.

I went vegetarian when I was 13-14. This isn't all that hard when a young teen could pull it off. There's an adjustment period though...particularly if it's a drastic change. I recently took over someone's diet for a month or 2 and the adjustment was largely from the complex grains, lack of processed foods, and fiber (I flushed her out basically). But after that the adjustments were more pleasant: more energy, more stable moods, clearer/healthier skin, feeling "light," less digestive probs, and losing weight. The hardest part that I saw was if you don't know how to cook (I had to learn) and if you're unwilling to try new foods. Oh, and giving your body time to get past cravings, particularly if you eat a ton of sugar or meat. 

I know it's mostly in jest. But I also feel these are somewhat common misconceptions. So I'm writing more into it than is probably needed

One last thing not particularly to you. As a long-term veg I kinda find it funny when people mention the delectable meats like they're heaven. For one, most meats I can't remember what they taste like and meat is usually not that aesthetically appealing. It's like someone raving about escargot or fried crickets and showing your photos of fried snake and bat. For another my food is Delish!

 

with luv, 

bd 

Edited June 3, 2016 by BlueDreams

[Ahab]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I have been on a good run and a nice bikeride.. in about 2 hours I will have a big juicy burger with cheese, tomatoes and onions speaking to me...it will say.."bite me"!  I say take care of yourself and enjoy life!  End of story.  Ooooo...forgot..the pickles!!!

I enjoy burgers too with the burgers made from beans instead of groundup pieces of cow.  

Yum!  Even sounds better than thinking about eating cow pieces.  And that goes for what you call cheese, as well.

And don't forget about the lettuce and bbq sauce!  Or maybe some spicy mustard instead of bbq sauce.

 

[Jeanne]

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I enjoy burgers too with the burgers made from beans instead of groundup pieces of cow.  

Yum!  Even sounds better than thinking about eating cow pieces.  And that goes for what you call cheese, as well.

And don't forget about the lettuce and bbq sauce!  Or maybe some spicy mustard instead of bbq sauce.

 

It was delicious.  Had to walk some miles after because of that.. I don't eat like that often but it just sounded good today.  I like beans.actually, I like to mix that with the cow with some soup crackers and an egg...makes the meat go farther.  Heinz 57 Sauce is my go to..

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

It was delicious.  Had to walk some miles after because of that.. I don't eat like that often but it just sounded good today.  I like beans.actually, I like to mix that with the cow with some soup crackers and an egg...makes the meat go farther.  Heinz 57 Sauce is my go to..

Ah, yes, I remember it well, and sometimes I still eat a cow patty or 2 because I still like all of that "flavor".  I prefer Jack Daniel's smokey bbq sauce,  though.  I tried Heinz 57 sauce once and it was too vinegary for my palate.

 

[halconero]

22 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

Thank you for sharing. My thoughts are solidifying.

So how do you feel about veganism? Does eating cheese, milk and butter violate the Word of Wisdom in your mind for similar reasons?

It depends on the source. I'm not as diametrically opposed to eating those products without need as I am with meat. A concern would be with the farm producing them. A significant amount of dairy producing farms don't treat their animals in a very ethical manner, and conditions within are horrible. Vegan diets also tend to being the most environmentally friendly.

But I've also seen farms where the animals are happy and excited to get milked, and without calves or having more than enough for existing calves there really isn't any point in letting it go to waste.

So I'm not opposed on principle, so long as animal suffering isn't involved and the environmental impact is minimized.

[halconero]

21 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Thanks! I really liked the idea of sparingly = sparing the animal's life. It's one of those things that I feel should have been obvious to me, but really wasn't without the quote. It makes me rethink my journey with(out) meat and wonder if at least some of it was part of following the Spirit more than I give it credit.

 

With luv,

BD

I liked that aspect of sparingly too! That and the thought that animals have joy and rejoicing in their creation and life as well. God's creation isn't solely focused on the uplifting of humanity, though that is His main focus, but the joy and blessing of all his creatures.

Obedience to the Word of Wisdom is definitely a spiritual thing I've found. The promises therein include temple blessings and revelatory experiences. It's pretty amazing.

[Jeanne]

30 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Ah, yes, I remember it well, and sometimes I still eat a cow patty or 2 because I still like all of that "flavor".  I prefer Jack Daniel's smokey bbq sauce,  though.  I tried Heinz 57 sauce once and it was too vinegary for my palate.

 

Mix some honey with the Heinz..that will be just right.  Hey..we ought to start and MD&D restaurant!!

[Ahab]

24 minutes ago, halconero said:

I liked that aspect of sparingly too! That and the thought that animals have joy and rejoicing in their creation and life as well. God's creation isn't solely focused on the uplifting of humanity, though that is His main focus, but the joy and blessing of all his creatures.

Obedience to the Word of Wisdom is definitely a spiritual thing I've found. The promises therein include temple blessings and revelatory experiences. It's pretty amazing.

Interesting that my change to a vegan, usually, diet has changed my mind about keeping chickens on my property.   I still may keep them, occasionally,  but since I won't be eating them or their eggs it's not as much of a benefit to me as it is or will be a cost.

I'm thinking about changing the chicken coop into a dog kennel now.   I don't eat dogs either but breeding dogs seems like it would be more fun than just breeding chickens.

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Mix some honey with the Heinz..that will be just right.  Hey..we ought to start and MD&D restaurant!!

Running a restaurant doesn't sound like fun to me.  I might be a customer for some of your food, occasionally, though, if you don't charge me any money to eat your food.

 

[Jeanne]

9 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Running a restaurant doesn't sound like fun to me.  I might be a customer for some of your food, occasionally, though, if you don't charge me any money to eat your food.

 

You want free food???  You have been around too many mormon potlucks!!

[halconero]

4 hours ago, Ahab said:

Interesting that my change to a vegan, usually, diet has changed my mind about keeping chickens on my property.   I still may keep them, occasionally,  but since I won't be eating them or their eggs it's not as much of a benefit to me as it is or will be a cost.

I'm thinking about changing the chicken coop into a dog kennel now.   I don't eat dogs either but breeding dogs seems like it would be more fun than just breeding chickens.

It's interesting to see how many board members are either vegan, vegetarian, or mostly one or the other! I know there's myself, BlueDreams, and yourself, but I think there are a few others lurking around.

[Rivers]

Supposedly there won't be any meat in the millennium. So I'm going to enjoy steak and cheeseburgers as much I can until that time. 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Rivers

[Yirgacheffe]

On 6/1/2016 at 1:59 PM, carbon dioxide said:

Put meat on the side of the dish and the mash potatoes at the center of the dish. 

That's my kind of dish, though any kind of potato will do, mashed, baked, diced, hashed

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Do plants not deserve to live?

When I was a child I pointed out to my father that if plants have spirits then killing or harming them was wrong.

He did not buy it and I still had to mow the lawn.