Statistics And Church Growth

[Anteojito]

I served in Argentina 30 years ago. The areas there were already getting burned out. I can't imagine what it is like now.

[readstoomuch]

I think that we have concentrated on numbers and missionary tactics for too long. We have to do more service and preach Christ. I think it will also make things smoother for the missionary ramping up. I have thought about almost every issue brought up and I wish we could make some changes as a Church. I was hoping for something at the last conference.

[rockpond]

I think that we have concentrated on numbers and missionary tactics for too long. We have to do more service and preach Christ. I think it will also make things smoother for the missionary ramping up. I have thought about almost every issue brought up and I wish we could make some changes as a Church. I was hoping for something at the last conference.

 

From where I serve in the church, I'm seeing area authorities and mission presidencies that seem to be struggling to keep their missionaries occupied.  Pressure on wards and members keeps increasing.  New programs to involve members and further the scope of the full-time missionaries continue to be rolled out.  For example, we have genealogy missionaries and YSA reactivation missionaries in our stake... not members called as such but full-time (young, not senior) missionaries serving in those roles.

 

I think that we'll see even more evolution among the missions and a drastic increase in service hours is likely to be one of those changes.

[Okrahomer]

From where I serve in the church, I'm seeing area authorities and mission presidencies that seem to be struggling to keep their missionaries occupied.  Pressure on wards and members keeps increasing.  New programs to involve members and further the scope of the full-time missionaries continue to be rolled out.  For example, we have genealogy missionaries and YSA reactivation missionaries in our stake... not members called as such but full-time (young, not senior) missionaries serving in those roles.

 

I think that we'll see even more evolution among the missions and a drastic increase in service hours is likely to be one of those changes.

 

More service and perhaps more of this as well.

[readstoomuch]

Yes, Elder Holland brought that up a year ago about Internet missionaries. It is happening, but the number of missionaries has exploded. The stake constantly talks about missionary work. I was called as a ward missionary. My wife and I said we wouldn't do it unless we could do it our way. No guilt, no techniques. The ward mission plan is about getting to know neighbors, looking for service, gospel discussions on topics that other person shaped. We emphasized not pressuring them and if they had their own beliefs to encourage them to share them. There has been the expectation that it may take years and not days for the program to work. There have been some pleasant surprises short term, but it is slowly taking shape. I think the missionaries are starting to catch the vision.

Edited April 9, 2014 by readstoomuch

[rockpond]

Yes, Elder Holland brought that up a year ago about Internet missionaries. It is happening, but the number of missionaries has exploded. The stake constantly talks about missionary work. I was called as a ward missionary. My wife and I said we wouldn't do it unless we could do it our way. No guilt, no techniques. The ward mission plan is about getting to know neighbors, looking for service, gospel discussions on topics that other person shaped. We emphasized not pressuring them and if they had their own beliefs to encourage them to share them. There has been the expectation that it may take years and not days for the program to work. There have been some pleasant surprises short term, but it is slowly taking shape. I think the missionaries are starting to catch the vision.

 

Thanks for posting... sounds like a great way to handle your ward mission.  Our ward mission leader was actually taking a similar approach but the Stake, Area Authority, and Mission Pres are asking for us to use some different and very specific methods.  Not sure where it will lead.

[readstoomuch]

The people making the decisions on the top don't see our missionaries trying to find things to do and then, some leaders can make the members feel guilty for not doing more. I think the way I described will work and if the missionaries do more service, they won't look back at their missions as a total waste,

[Sanpitch]

Maybe the church should cancel the WofW except for tobacco. Orientals and the English live on tea and the rest of the world lives on coffee or caffeine in soda pop. And tea and coffee have been found to be healthy if not in excess. The meat issue is ignored anyway and the WofW was never doctrine until the people voted on it in the late 1800s. "If God recommended it, then we'll go one better and make it a doctrine."

JWs don't ban caffeine drinks, or alcohol in limited quantities, no drunkenness allowed. Seems alcohol in limited amounts is healthful anyway.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Sanpitch

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 I have always thought the growth rate was not as important as the "quality" rate of the converts or the Church itself.

 

One of the biggest things that irked me as a missionary was all the talk about not focusing on the numbers. And all we would do was report all of our numbers every week. In a certain sense this is what it feels like. I really don't care that there was 300,000 baptisms last year. What I care is are the people still active and to they have strong testimonies. The retention rate is what I think should be the focus. Keep in mind that I am not meaning to sound critical of our leaders I know they are aware of the issues. I guess it is one of my "stumbling blocks", if you will.

[Duncan]

just got off the phone with the elders and they are making a stick Temple in the foresty park nature thing and so 11 people came up to them and talked to them, it's my principle of "bees are attracted to honey, so be the honey"!

[readstoomuch]

Yes, retention over numbers.

Soften up the word of wisdom a little. Great by me. At the very least coffee or tea, or at least soften up on them. Tobacco is a real problem for some parts of the world. It is noble to stop and my dad did when he joined the church. At least it could not be so bad of a thing if someone smokes or drinks. There is that old joke about the Mormon girl who got pregnant by a nonmember, but she would never marry him because he smoked.

It does seem like a grassroots member campaign will save the missionary program. Was it inspired to lower the age for both men and women-yes, absolutely. Was it strange/short-sighted to lower the ages without some immediate plans as to what they were all going to do-yes. Do things work that way in the Church and we have to figure out some of the details as we go along-yes, absolutely. For that matter most of the historical issues I can think of revolve around the same sort of dichotomies.

[ERMD]

I served in Argentina 30 years ago. The areas there were already getting burned out. I can't imagine what it is like now.

Where?  

I was in Bs. As. North 84-86

[Anteojito]

Maybe the church should cancel the WofW except for tobacco. Orientals and the English live on tea and the rest of the world lives on coffee or caffeine in soda pop. And tea and coffee have been found to be healthy if not in excess. The meat issue is ignored anyway and the WofW was never doctrine until the people voted on it in the late 1800s. "If God recommended it, then we'll go one better and make it a doctrine."

JWs don't ban caffeine drinks, or alcohol in limited quantities, no drunkenness allowed. Seems alcohol in limited amounts is healthful anyway.

 

 

"Orientals"? The 1950's called and they want their word back

Edited April 10, 2014 by Anteojito

[Thinking]

Market Saturation

[Calm]

just got off the phone with the elders and they are making a stick Temple in the foresty park nature thing and so 11 people came up to them and talked to them, it's my principle of "bees are attracted to honey, so be the honey"!

Pictures please if possible.

[readstoomuch]

Anteojeto,

I am impressed that you care enough as an ex-member to give us missionary ideas. Hopefully, your path is calm and good for you.

Thinking,

No market saturation on feeling the spirit and fellowship. You just have to provide it on a consistent basis.

Duncan,

A thread with ideas for the missionaries to do stuff like that seems like a good idea. We cleaned the park near my home. They looked bored and I said there was nothing like service to keep your soul good. Three people asked us who we were and we got into a discussion about the Church.

That is all.

[Disciple?]

The problem with retaining members is the social phenomenon that "once you are in, you are damned if you leave." It is a bad social phenomenon, as converts are going to have a roller coaster ride to perfect faith. If members could just be more empathetic to a converts conversion process retention would go up.

[readstoomuch]

Yes and the idea of the social/cultural mormon as a career path in mormonism would help.

[Duncan]

Pictures please if possible.

 

 

I sent them to you! I dunno how to post them on here

[rockpond]

One of the biggest things that irked me as a missionary was all the talk about not focusing on the numbers. And all we would do was report all of our numbers every week. In a certain sense this is what it feels like. I really don't care that there was 300,000 baptisms last year. What I care is are the people still active and to they have strong testimonies. The retention rate is what I think should be the focus. Keep in mind that I am not meaning to sound critical of our leaders I know they are aware of the issues. I guess it is one of my "stumbling blocks", if you will.

You can triangulate an estimation of our retention rate with the numbers the church provides. For 2013 it would go something like this (in round numbers)...

We baptized 285k

Gave birth to 115k ("children of record")

That's an increase of 400k for the year.

But then you need to subtract out deaths... Applying the global mortality rate to our total membership figure we should have lost around 125k to the other side of the veil.

That means that total membership should have increased by 275k. But we are reporting an increase of almost 300k. So, that means that we have a perfect retention rate and/or a lower than average death rate.

Unless I've missed something.

 

*Edited to correct for a current global mortality rate (changed estimate of total deaths by 15k).

Edited April 11, 2014 by rockpond

[Calm]

I sent them to you! I dunno how to post them on here

I will look tomorrow...

[VideoGameJunkie]

Missionaries are now spending a lot of time trying to bring inactive members back into the church.

[Stargazer]

I have wondered how to contribute to the missionary effort, given that I tend to be very introverted.  Oddly enough, I love public speaking - and I make sure every bishopric is aware that I am available to give SM talks on a moment's notice.  But approaching people one-on-one?  Gives me the willies.

 

I thought of the idea of writing a book, which I would call "How to Become a Mormon".  Make it kind of like "Preach My Gospel" except directed towards those curious about what it would mean to become a member of the Church -- like sitting down for lessons with the FTM, without actually sitting down for lessons with them.  

 

I guess it wouldn't be a good idea, though.  Too many people would read it without feeling challenged to determine the truth of the Church, and might even reject the idea of meeting with the missionaries after reading it.  They would say: I know all I need to know already.  

 

 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The growth rate and number of converts is flattening out. It has happened for several years and fortunately still shows some growth. The number of missionaries has grown markedly, but is not necessarily showing up in the form of converts. I have always thought the growth rate was not as important as the "quality" rate of the converts or the Church itself.

Could missionary work be transitioned to more service? Could we have a higher percentage of missionaries called only as service missionaries? Are movements such as Ordain Women, MormonStories, or others being negatively affecting growth through negative publicity or through resignations? At least the Church released/owned the statistics. Could there be positive aspects to this data? I think there could tremendous opportunities for missonaries if we can think outside of the proselyting box. I hear lip service to service and missionaries, but not as tangible of change as I had hoped for and some pressure by local leaders to have more for the missionaries to teach/do.

This is a common thread that moves like water through the anti-Mormon types. Some in the Church makes claims of dishonesty from Church leaders, while other outside the Church call us lairs. The simple fact is, if you are a member of record...you will be counted. In short we count the same way every other faith.

[Tacenda]

I have wondered how to contribute to the missionary effort, given that I tend to be very introverted. Oddly enough, I love public speaking - and I make sure every bishopric is aware that I am available to give SM talks on a moment's notice. But approaching people one-on-one? Gives me the willies.

I thought of the idea of writing a book, which I would call "How to Become a Mormon". Make it kind of like "Preach My Gospel" except directed towards those curious about what it would mean to become a member of the Church -- like sitting down for lessons with the FTM, without actually sitting down for lessons with them.

I guess it wouldn't be a good idea, though. Too many people would read it without feeling challenged to determine the truth of the Church, and might even reject the idea of meeting with the missionaries after reading it. They would say: I know all I need to know already.

Stargazer, you should write a book about how to be a member of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints", not, how to be a "Mormon".