Statistics And Church Growth

[readstoomuch]

The growth rate and number of converts is flattening out. It has happened for several years and fortunately still shows some growth. The number of missionaries has grown markedly, but is not necessarily showing up in the form of converts. I have always thought the growth rate was not as important as the "quality" rate of the converts or the Church itself.

Could missionary work be transitioned to more service? Could we have a higher percentage of missionaries called only as service missionaries? Are movements such as Ordain Women, MormonStories, or others being negatively affecting growth through negative publicity or through resignations? At least the Church released/owned the statistics. Could there be positive aspects to this data? I think there could tremendous opportunities for missonaries if we can think outside of the proselyting box. I hear lip service to service and missionaries, but not as tangible of change as I had hoped for and some pressure by local leaders to have more for the missionaries to teach/do.

[mormonnewb]

I was surprised by the relatively small increase in convert baptisms given the massive increase in missionaries, but it may just a case of us needing time to get the new "forces" ramped up. Next year's numbers should provide a better baseline for our efforts.

[Sanpitch]

I have had the opinion, most of my life, that what is needed is for God to furnish a book of instructions of what is wanted and what is going on for all the world's peoples in any form he choses.   There are missionaries scattered around the world but they reach very few people and of those who they do reach, of what interest is some farm boy in America who claims to have received some gold plates that were produced by American Natives.  Of what interest is that to people in Europe or Asia, it will never work.  The LDS work in Japan is near nothing and I can see why.  They have their Buddha and Shinto beliefs, why follow  the claims of a farm boy from 180 years ago in America?

 

The missionary efforts in Ireland, Norway...well most of Europe is dead.

 

What is the big secret, why can't people know the past and the future of mankind?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Sanpitch

[wenglund]

The growth rate and number of converts is flattening out. It has happened for several years and fortunately still shows some growth. The number of missionaries has grown markedly, but is not necessarily showing up in the form of converts. I have always thought the growth rate was not as important as the "quality" rate of the converts or the Church itself.

Could missionary work be transitioned to more service? Could we have a higher percentage of missionaries called only as service missionaries? Are movements such as Ordain Women, MormonStories, or others being negatively affecting growth through negative publicity or through resignations? At least the Church released/owned the statistics. Could there be positive aspects to this data? I think there could tremendous opportunities for missonaries if we can think outside of the proselyting box. I hear lip service to service and missionaries, but not as tangible of change as I had hoped for and some pressure by local leaders to have more for the missionaries to teach/do.

 

Since every member is a missionary, and since you are presumably a member, I can't see why you couldn't use yourself as a pilot to test your suggestions. Let us now how your missionary service goes in terms of conversion rates.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[readstoomuch]

I have. We do mostly service with a set of our own missionaries. We baptized a new convert in January, though.

Edited April 7, 2014 by readstoomuch

[Calm]

I think it will take time for expectations to change. Many mission presidents probably repeat patterns they learned on their mission, thus maintaining traditions. Unless leadership gives more specific direction, I suspect service parts of missions will be a slow growth over all though with pockets of high emphasis.

[readstoomuch]

I am afraid that these young people will not have enough to do on their missions. I don't think it is good if the direction given to them is about proselyting only, Their souls need to be busy in service.

[why me]

I am afraid that these young people will not have enough to do on their missions. I don't think it is good if the direction given to them is about proselyting only, Their souls need to be busy in service.

When it comes to service there are only some parts of the world where this can be done.For example, in europe and in australia service is really not needed. However, service missionaries can be used in various parts of the world but the work is far from easy and it does require some skill and maturity. Plus, it requires training. For example, how to give a teenager the skills necessary to be a teacher? Or a service missionary that installs plumbing? Or puts a water supply in for a village?

[Bikeemikey]

When it comes to service there are only some parts of the world where this can be done.For example, in europe and in australia service is really not needed. However, service missionaries can be used in various parts of the world but the work is far from easy and it does require some skill and maturity. Plus, it requires training. For example, how to give a teenager the skills necessary to be a teacher? Or a service missionary that installs plumbing? Or puts a water supply in for a village?

That's not true.

There are places in Australia that are still rebuilding from both massive flooding and wildfire.

In Europe it is the same..

In New Zealand a massive earthquake from a few years ago made the whole central city district of Christchurch (population 4000,000+) totally uninhabitable and unusable. Years later it is still mostly uninhabitable. They are predicting 10 years before it is even fully reusable.

But don't worry, the church donated apples and lunch snacks to kids at school for a couple of days.

You could dump 10000 service missionaries at a number of disaster hit places in many first world nations and they would be extremely helpful.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[Tacenda]

When it comes to service there are only some parts of the world where this can be done.For example, in europe and in australia service is really not needed. However, service missionaries can be used in various parts of the world but the work is far from easy and it does require some skill and maturity. Plus, it requires training. For example, how to give a teenager the skills necessary to be a teacher? Or a service missionary that installs plumbing? Or puts a water supply in for a village?

My son did alot of yard work and also helped people move. One move was huge because the occupant was a hoarder. Plus, he did service throughout the community with "helping hands". I still have his yellow shirt. I'll bet your daughter does service in places that don't look like they need it, Why Me. Or were you talking about something else? Edited April 8, 2014 by Tacenda

[Duncan]

I am afraid that these young people will not have enough to do on their missions. I don't think it is good if the direction given to them is about proselyting only, Their souls need to be busy in service.

 

 

I talked last night with the elders for an hour and there isn't enough stuff to do with 6 missionaries in our ward!! so they are going creative. Sometimes members take advantage of them. We had a lawyer man move out sometime ago and he was going on about how he was sad no one was helping other then the missionaries and I emailed him back and said you are a lawyer...why don't you just pay for for a moving company? Skinflint. In one area one member wanted the elders to build him a shed, neither knew what they were doing so 6 hours later and not much done they just left. Stuff like that should be done by people who know what they are doing! In the summer our sister missionaries got heat stroke from gardening at a members' place, which shouldn't have happened. I tell them it's one thing to take out garbage, shovel walks and help someone clean dishes or something but stuff that should be done by the members or a professional is something else

Edited April 8, 2014 by Duncan

[Bikeemikey]

My son did alot of yard work and also helped people move. One move was huge because the occupant was a hoarder. Plus, he did service throughout the community with "helping hands". I still have his yellow shirt. I'll bet your daughter does service in places that don't look like they need it, Why Me. Or were you talking about something else?

 

I think there might be more of a need for service in places that look like they need it too.

[readstoomuch]

In addition to service, they can just be a part of the ward family. They can be a good example for our children. On saturday mornings they could be at the church interacting with the members. Many are so young, that life skills and wisdom need to be imparted to them. Even the wealthiest areas have widows and single parents. Parks need maintenance. Nursing homes are full of people who don`t get visitors. What if in a zone, there were a set of missionaries who helped coordinate service for the mission in a certain area. The missionaries could interact with church and local leaders. Interfaith activities could be forwarded. Interfaith cooperation would probably come with some guarantees that our missionaries wouldn`t proselyte their members.

As far as the argument about it having to start with me. I have and the missionaries are in my home a few times per week and I have shoveled snow, moved people, mowed yards and cleaned a park with them. Then I go to adult session of stake conference. They ask for input about the increase of missionaries. We spend an hour. There are many requests and concerns about the missionaries not having enough to do. There is proselyting, but in more developed areas it has always been a struggle to use the missionaries time well. Now we are waiting to see if our ideas will catch on. It is a lonely job to keep a set of missionaries busy within one ward boundary without coordinated help and approval from the mission president.

[Calm]

Missionaries could help with deliveries for shutins. Volunteer with literacy programs. Help out at shelters and food banks. There is tons of service that doesn't need skilled labourers.

[Thinking]

I was surprised by the relatively small increase in convert baptisms given the massive increase in missionaries, but it may just a case of us needing time to get the new "forces" ramped up. Next year's numbers should provide a better baseline for our efforts.

 

The Law of Diminishing Returns

[Duncan]

The Law of Diminishing Returns

 

 

more missionaries doesn't mean more converts, I think!

[readstoomuch]

Yes, exactly. Otherwise they often sit in their apartment. The librarian even suggested they do some service since they were at the library so much.

[Calm]

I volunteered to shelve books. The system isn't hard to learn.

[Gray]

I know in my ward a large focus of the missionaries is reactivation.

[omni]

Requiring more service from the missionaries is such a no-brained to me on every level. The church has smart people making these decisions, I'm really surprised we haven't seen this change.

[readstoomuch]

The second after they made the announcement, i had the thought that there was not going to be enough proselyting. The next thought was that this could be the most positive thing to happen in years if we use it as an opportunity to expand our scope and type of service.

Edited April 8, 2014 by readstoomuch

[ERayR]

I talked last night with the elders for an hour and there isn't enough stuff to do with 6 missionaries in our ward!! so they are going creative. Sometimes members take advantage of them. We had a lawyer man move out sometime ago and he was going on about how he was sad no one was helping other then the missionaries and I emailed him back and said you are a lawyer...why don't you just pay for for a moving company? Skinflint. In one area one member wanted the elders to build him a shed, neither knew what they were doing so 6 hours later and not much done they just left. Stuff like that should be done by people who know what they are doing! In the summer our sister missionaries got heat stroke from gardening at a members' place, which shouldn't have happened. I tell them it's one thing to take out garbage, shovel walks and help someone clean dishes or something but stuff that should be done by the members or a professional is something else

 

I completly agree with you, especially about the skinflint.  The least he could have done was donate $500.00 to the missionary fund.

[DJBrown]

The growth rate and number of converts is flattening out. It has happened for several years and fortunately still shows some growth. The number of missionaries has grown markedly, but is not necessarily showing up in the form of converts. I have always thought the growth rate was not as important as the "quality" rate of the converts or the Church itself.

Could missionary work be transitioned to more service? Could we have a higher percentage of missionaries called only as service missionaries? Are movements such as Ordain Women, MormonStories, or others being negatively affecting growth through negative publicity or through resignations? At least the Church released/owned the statistics. Could there be positive aspects to this data? I think there could tremendous opportunities for missonaries if we can think outside of the proselyting box. I hear lip service to service and missionaries, but not as tangible of change as I had hoped for and some pressure by local leaders to have more for the missionaries to teach/do.

 

Elder Maxwell once said that what is now a small stream will one day be a flood.  He, of course, was talking about the number of people joining the church.  I have thought long and deeply about how that change will occur.  One possibility which I believe may be the most likely is that the world will have to be humbled before this trend changes.  President Hinckley once said in conference in answering his own question as to why there are not more converts, "there's no faith."  Or at least that is how I recall his statement.  This took me by surprise.

 

Could major political, economic, natural, and military events lead to increased humility and willingness on the part of humanity to consider the message of the gospel?  I don't know how else the number of baptisms will increase significantly.  I readily admit that my perspective is limited and that I do not see or know what the prophets know.

 

When I served a mission in 1990-92, there were 30,000 missionaries and one of those years saw 330K convert baptisms.  It is really striking how little more missionaries has resulted in more baptisms.  

[Avatar4321]

I havent seen the stats. Listening to them is meaningless to me because I can't picture the number. But I don't expect to see much change this year.

 

I would expect more in the coming years for the following reason: More missionaries + the Come Follow Me Program working for years + the general state of decay in the world.

 

But I think we are focusing on the wrong thing if we are just looking at numbers. We need to be preparing lives and families for the Coming of Christ. In order to do that, we need to step up in our own righteousness. I've been working harder passing out pass along cards. it's a small thing but I'm praying it will help. We need to all be doing something, even if it's small.

 

It's not the missionaries responsibility to find people. It's ours. If they aren't teaching more people it's because we are slack because I know they are working hard.

[Tacenda]

I think there might be more of a need for service in places that look like they need it too.

Oh for sure, needless to say though.