Only For Those Who Were 30 Years Old And Up

[thatjimguy]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

 

 

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

 

 

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

 

Did you know it was going to change?

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

 

Would you call it personal revelation?

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2014 by thatjimguy

[cinepro]

Someone would probably need to be 50 and up to remember those issues.  I was 4 when it happened and couldn't tell you much. 

 

But if you have any questions about what it was like to be into Star Wars in the late 70's, I'm your guy.

[Tacenda]

I am just a little older than 50, and didn't really think much about it, single and just thinking of job and friends. But need to say that I think many probably saw the writing on the wall with events surrounding it. Civil Rights in the late 60's, BYU facing scrutiny in the sports department, temple in Brazil, you wouldn't necessarily need a revelation, to see that things needed changing. Outside forces compelled the opening up of blacks holding the priesthood.

[thesometimesaint]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

 

 

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

 

 

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

 

Did you know it was going to change?

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

 

Would you call it personal revelation?

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

 

I was 27 at the time, and remember it well. It was like wanting a nice warm puppy for Christmas, and then getting it. Surprised, and overjoyed, at the same time.

 

No one that I know of was taken aback. All were surprised and overjoyed just like I was.

[Kenngo1969]

Someone would probably need to be 50 and up to remember those issues.  I was 4 when it happened and couldn't tell you much. 

 

But if you have any questions about what it was like to be into Star Wars in the late 70's, I'm your guy.

Wow.  You're a Young Buck!

[Kenngo1969]

I don't meet your 50+ criterion.  Sorry.  I was pretty young, (8 2/3).  I don't remember anyone being taken aback by it.  I don't remember anyone saying they were going to leave the Church over it.  I remember everyone I knew being pretty happy about it.  If someone got a personal revelation about it in 1970, I think it would've been just that: personal, for them.  One person is authorized to receive revelation for the Church of Jesus Christ as a whole.

[thesometimesaint]

I don't meet your 50+ criterion.  Sorry.  I was pretty young, (8 2/3).  I don't remember anyone being taken aback by it.  I don't remember anyone saying they were going to leave the Church over it.  I remember everyone I knew being pretty happy about it.  If someone got a personal revelation about it in 1970, I think it would've been just that: personal, for them.  One person is authorized to receive revelation for the Church of Jesus Christ as a whole.

Wow.  You're a Young Buck!

[Kenngo1969]

I am just a little older than 50, and didn't really think much about it, single and just thinking of job and friends. But need to say that I think many probably saw the writing on the wall with events surrounding it. Civil Rights in the late 60's, BYU facing scrutiny in the sports department, temple in Brazil, you wouldn't necessarily need a revelation, to see that things needed changing. Outside forces compelled the opening up of blacks holding the priesthood.

If, indeed, it was driven by social forces and not by revelation, I think it would have happened much sooner, by at least ten years.  Someone who is more aware of what was happening than I was is certainly welcome to correct me, but boycotting and protesting of BYU sports had pretty much reached its zenith by the late '60s or early '70s.  There may have been schools that said, in essence, one of two things. Either: (1) "We'll agree to play you and we won't bother protesting at this point (since, if protesting were going to bring about the desired change, it would already have happened by now)"; or (2) "Not playing you is how we're going to protest the policy."

 

P.S.: Here's an article that appeared in a 2009 edition of The Daily Universe about the 40th anniversary of the so-called "Black 14" protest by University of Wyoming African American football players against BYU: http://www.universe2.byu.edu/node/3158.  There may have been other protests following this one, but I don't think they were as organized or as high-profile.  I think this may have been the "high-water mark" of protest against BYU over the policy.   Anyone know any different?  P.P.S.: Here's a Salt Lake Tribune retrospective on the "Black 14": http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_13728556  So far, for what it's worth, the only sources I can find only mention protests before the "Black 14" protest ... nothing after.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[oremites]

Everyone knew blacks were going to get the priesthood someday, the only question was when.  I don't remember any resistance to the idea or resistance to discussing the idea though it wasn't a common topic in my mostly-white world.

 

I knew of no one who was taken aback or left the church.

[Teancum]

In 1970 I was 11.  I was almost 19 when the banned was lifted. I did was not expecting it for 8 years or so but the year before it seemed there were rumblings.  I was not at all surprised by the change and I was simply over joyed about it.

[strappinglad]

I remember being told about it in the grocery store by my SP. I recall saying " that's great" ,as I knew that it would happen someday. Where I lived I could count on one hand the number of blacks I had seen. I do remember rumors of disaffection in the Southeast US congregations. No more than the disaffections that happened when a new prophet was announced, particularly ETB and JFS .

[Que]

Did you know it was going to change?

Yes, of course - my recollection is that it was commonly taught that priesthood for blacks was due in the nebulous future... only the timing was unknown.

 

Could you talk about it?

Sure - I remember it being commonly taught.

 

Was it personal revelation?

No - it was teaching - even doctrine.

 

Were people taken aback or did they apostatize?

No - it was expected. Only the timing was unknown. In my experience, many were surprised in that they expected it to happen later, maybe even millennium-later, but they were glad it happened to the point of feeling like a weight was removed from the shoulders. (I grew up, by the way, primarily in central and southern California.)

[rodheadlee]

I was a sophomore in High School in 1970, not in the Church had never even heard of the Church except for a squib on the Mormon trail in 5th grade history. Raised in Orange County, So Cal, I had traveled through Utah 2 times on the way to Montana. Didn't notice anything funky going on.

 

In 1974 I hitchhiked through Washington, Idaho, Montana and back to Seattle. I had really long hair. the only people to treat me nice were the Mormons, Indians and Gays. the rednecks tried to kill us

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

Did you know it was going to change?

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

Would you call it personal revelation?

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

I am well over 50, but joined in 1979, and had that been the policy, I would not have joined until the policy changed. I grew up Ina segregated South, and it always offensive to me, and a burden to those denied their God given rights. Edited March 2, 2014 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[teddyaware]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

 

 

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

 

 

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

 

Did you know it was going to change?

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

 

Would you call it personal revelation?

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

You should find this interesting: I remember being at a stake priesthood meeting (I believe the year was 1975 or 1976) and at one point a film was shown that featured then Church President Spencer W. Kimball. The topic of this short film was focused on the missionary effort of the Church from President Kimball's point of view and what he said the saints could expect to see by way of expanded missionary opportunities in the near future.

 

I clearly remember president Kimball was standing by a spinning globe of the world and he would turn that globe of planet earth and point to various counties and regions and say something like, "the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is going to go here" and he would point here and there. I seem to remember Russia, China and the Mideast were among the countries or regions of the world he indicated would yet have their opportunity to hear and embrace the good news of the Restored Gospel. I then remember the awe that filled my soul when he turned the globe and pointed to the center of the continent of Africa! In that instant I remember thinking to myself and saying, "how in the world is the Church's missionary effort going to successfully go to Africa while the priesthood ban is still in effect?" At that moment I remember looking at the faint, sweet smile on dear President Kimball's face and I thought, Ohhhh!!!

Edited March 1, 2014 by teddyaware

[Duncan]

my Mum was pregnant with yours truly in June of 1978 and so had other things on her mind. 

[CV75]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

 

 

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

 

 

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

 

Did you know it was going to change?

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

 

Would you call it personal revelation?

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

I was 18 when I joined the Church in 1975. I was aware of the ban before that, when my older brother joined at the same age in 1970. The idea of the ban by any in my family, including me, was not well-received. However, a spiritual witness compelled me to join the Church and trumped any sense of the explanations not being completely satisfactory. Friends who had joined long the way until 1978 expressed similar sentiments. It was talked about openly, but not often, and usually in terms of "someday" and "spirit world." So I did not know it would change, and did not claim a revelation that it would. We all welcomed the 1978 change and took it as a sign that the Church was going to make great strides. No one I knew expressed disagreement or racist sentiments about it, or left the Church.

 

I would look up Darius Gray (writer, and gives firesides) on the subject of personal experience with the ban and the revelation as well as more current discussions on race in the Church in America.

[saemo]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

Did you know it was going to change?

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

Would you call it personal revelation?

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

I was at a youth conference when the 1978 announcement was made. I recall it as a welcomed surprise, joyous even. I remember hearing of people who left Mormonism because of the change. But that was viewed as a very small number of people and as members who just didn't get the whole idea of "follow the prophet".

Prior to the announcement I had my own doubts about what I was being taught as divine will,a t church. I am of the generation that was taught all the things that are called "opinion" now, but when I was taught it, it wasn't taught as opinion. In school science courses I was being taught about evolution and melanin. At church I was being taught about curses. Those were my first aha moments, that what I was being taught at church was in fact, opinion. I was at the time, in third grade. Would have been a good 8 or 9 years before the changes were made in 1978.

I didn't express to anyone what I observed or thought. Such a notion of expressing something contrary to "the church" was not acceptable in the homes I grew up in. All opinions were corrected to match the church. So I kept my opinions, and what I observed, to myself. You should also understand, I grew up in a home that was racist, the "N word was thrown around as a common insult among my siblings. I had no idea it was an offensive term until junior high, when I called a friend the "N" word and a classmate who was close by let me know in no uncertain terms I was an offensive racist. That would have been 3 or 4 years before 1978.

So, that caused a time of self examination and reflection, comparing what I had been taught to what society around me believed. I could see that I was wrong, and I wanted to improve my own behavior and associated ideas. I imagine that made me more sensitive to racism than I otherwise would have been. From that point on, I had a low tolerance for dark skin curses and Lamanites who were dirty and unrighteous. Still do.

Edited March 1, 2014 by saemo

[Tacenda]

I remember the 1978 announcement on the news along with the death of Elvis Presley. I distinctly remember everything I was doing. I was coming back from a lunch break and heard it in the radio. It felt sureal.

[rpn]

In the 1970's, we heard about the sports teams refusing to play BYU.  We heard about the litigation with the college maybe losing tax exempt status because they wouldn't let blacks attend at all.   But there was not any voiced expectation that the policy would change in my circles --- not in my hometown in the Northwest, not in BYU, not in AZ where I had family.   When I married a non-member black man in SLC in 1977, my parents went to Church offices in tears, and tried to have me committed to a mental institution.  Previous to this I had had not a single inkling in all my growing up years that my parents harbored any negative feelings about any group of people --- our family had housed international and regional performing and tour groups in our home regularly all my life (though I don't recall any were american blacks). 

 

I don't know how much of my parents reaction to my marriage was because he was black and how much because he was a non-member, but their reaction persuaded my dh that he wanted nothing whatever to do with the church which they espoused.  My parents never spoke to me or my siblings about what who they spoke with among the church leaders nor what they spoke about, but dad had contacts there and mom had worked in the admin office many years earlier so they probably spoke with some general authority. 

 

For myself, before I got married, I hoped for a day.  But I never saw it coming at all.  There were conversations at byu about why and some adamant on the McKonkie view and others challenging it.    I do recall being overjoyed when the revelation came.

 

I now live in the south and I am told that some people did leave the church, but it typically wasn't because of theological reasons --- the church was in its infancy in the south and lots of people weren't well versed in the history or the arguments for or against the ban.  It was because of ingrained cultural expectations that people of color did not socialize with those who weren't.  (Segregation was still pretty widespread, even when not officially sanctioned.)

[Garden Girl]

I was raised in a family that taught that the Priesthood would eventually be given to blacks; we just didn't know when, but looked forward to the day..

 

I was inactive at the time... 1978... but when the announcement came I thought...  well, at last, and viewed it as a welcome and joyous event.  Being inactive, I wasn't aware of the general reaction among members, but it was welcomed by my folks. 

 

GG

[thatjimguy]

I was raised in a family that taught that the Priesthood would eventually be given to blacks;

GG

 

Would you say your family was the norm for your area with this view? Did you know of other that held opposing views?

[mormonnewb]

I was at a youth conference when the 1978 announcement was made. I recall it as a welcomed surprise, joyous even. I remember hearing of people who left Mormonism because of the change. But that was viewed as a very small number of people and as members who just didn't get the whole idea of "follow the prophet".

Prior to the announcement I had my own doubts about what I was being taught as divine will,a t church. I am of the generation that was taught all the things that are called "opinion" now, but when I was taught it, it wasn't taught as opinion. In school science courses I was being taught about evolution and melanin. At church I was being taught about curses. Those were my first aha moments, that what I was being taught at church was in fact, opinion. I was at the time, in third grade. Would have been a good 8 or 9 years before the changes were made in 1978.

I didn't express to anyone what I observed or thought. Such a notion of expressing something contrary to "the church" was not acceptable in the homes I grew up in. All opinions were corrected to match the church. So I kept my opinions, and what I observed, to myself. You should also understand, I grew up in a home that was racist, the "N word was thrown around as a common insult among my siblings. I had no idea it was an offensive term until junior high, when I called a friend the "N" word and a classmate who was close by let me know in no uncertain terms I was an offensive racist. That would have been 3 or 4 years before 1978.

So, that caused a time of self examination and reflection, comparing what I had been taught to what society around me believed. I could see that I was wrong, and I wanted to improve my own behavior and associated ideas. I imagine that made me more sensitive to racism than I otherwise would have been. From that point on, I had a low tolerance for dark skin curses and Lamanites who were dirty and unrighteous. Still do.

Thanks for "keeping it real"', Brother!

As a "young buck," I have never met a person who has admitted to being opposed to the civil rights movement. Yet, the majority of white citizens were indeed opposed to civil rights (at least, until the early 1960s). How is it possible that I've never met one of these people? Did they all die out like the dinosaurs? Or are all people over the age of 60 liars? Or perhaps, it's because people tend to see the past through rose-colored glasses.

Now, I believe all of you about your recollections of the time, but I find it very hard to believe that MOST (or even very many) saints were awaiting blacks in the priesthood like Christmas. Most were probably indifferent (as was the case with civil rights). Given that most saints lived in all-white areas, it simply wouldn't be an issue that they thought about it.

Of course, some saints rejoiced at the news, but they would have rejoiced at ANY revelation from the prophet. For example, when the missionary age was reduced to 18, many saints rejoiced. However, it wasn't something that they had anxiously awaited. I certainly never heard anyone looking forward to "that long promised day."

Likewise, when OD3 allows for SSM in the Church, most saints will claim to be "overjoyed" by the revelation. Unfortunately, for us, we're not going to have the same luxury as our parents and grandparents to feign excitement, because there will be an Internet trail from FB, Twitter and message boards to record just how we felt about SSM. It's going to make for some interesting reading.

[mormonnewb]

In the 1970's, we heard about the sports teams refusing to play BYU.  We heard about the litigation with the college maybe losing tax exempt status because they wouldn't let blacks attend at all.   But there was not any voiced expectation that the policy would change in my circles --- not in my hometown in the Northwest, not in BYU, not in AZ where I had family.   When I married a non-member black man in SLC in 1977, my parents went to Church offices in tears, and tried to have me committed to a mental institution.  Previous to this I had had not a single inkling in all my growing up years that my parents harbored any negative feelings about any group of people --- our family had housed international and regional performing and tour groups in our home regularly all my life (though I don't recall any were american blacks). 

 

I don't know how much of my parents reaction to my marriage was because he was black and how much because he was a non-member, but their reaction persuaded my dh that he wanted nothing whatever to do with the church which they espoused.  My parents never spoke to me or my siblings about what who they spoke with among the church leaders nor what they spoke about, but dad had contacts there and mom had worked in the admin office many years earlier so they probably spoke with some general authority. 

 

For myself, before I got married, I hoped for a day.  But I never saw it coming at all.  There were conversations at byu about why and some adamant on the McKonkie view and others challenging it.    I do recall being overjoyed when the revelation came.

 

I now live in the south and I am told that some people did leave the church, but it typically wasn't because of theological reasons --- the church was in its infancy in the south and lots of people weren't well versed in the history or the arguments for or against the ban.  It was because of ingrained cultural expectations that people of color did not socialize with those who weren't.  (Segregation was still pretty widespread, even when not officially sanctioned.)

I'm very sorry about your parent's reaction, but thank you so much for sharing it with us.

I found it most telling that they went to CHURCH offices in a desperate attempt to stop you from marrying your husband. I expect they did so because they expected to find some agreement with their concern. I don't expect that their expectation was groundless.

Also, thank you for reminding us about how these attitudes inhibit the ability of blacks to receive the restored gospel. Let's just pray that our current policies will not have a similar effect on another group in the future.

[Kevin Christensen]

I was going to visit Shauna (my financee) at her apartment in the avenues in Salt Lake City. As she let me in the apartment, she told me that she'd just heard the announcement on the radio. I remembered I seen a newspaper on the stair, so I ran and got it, and picked it up and read. While I was reading, I heard car horns honking all over the city. What I experienced was general celebration, a feeling of electricity.

I recall reading an account by a non-LDS reporter working at the Tribune who till that day had assumed that all the LDS were racist. His mind was changed at the sight of all the obvious joy and celebration.

A few months later, when we went to a session at the Oakland temple, a black man took me through the veil. Very cool.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA