Only For Those Who Were 30 Years Old And Up

[Danzo]

Of course, some saints rejoiced at the news, but they would have rejoiced at ANY revelation from the prophet. For example, when the missionary age was reduced to 18, many saints rejoiced. However, it wasn't something that they had anxiously awaited. I certainly never heard anyone looking forward to "that long promised day."

 

 

After the announcement  (of the reduced missionary age) My wife pulled out a letter she had written to the first presidency requesting a change to the missionary age and their response.  

So At least one person was looking for that change. 

[juliann]

Did you know it was going to change?

 

No. But it was becoming clear it was unsustainable. It is much like the women's situation today...it is so obvious that more accommodations have to be made but no one has any idea if or expectation they will.  For me, the choice was do I leave the church or accept the discrimination, not expectation it would change.

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

 

I can only describe the time as extreme and growing discomfort, in part because I had left SLC a few years earlier for my first job CA and was working and befriending blacks. I still remember the moment I realized that I could no longer live with this policy and work with my black friends everyday.  It was such a feeling of despair yet deep conviction that it would be my decision that would be coming, not the church's.  It was mere months later when I heard it on the news.

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

 

It was indescribable joy. I think most of us just plain sobbed. I don't know anyone who left over it. I remember hearing some huffing and puffing at the possibility from the usual suspects long before...but if anyone really left because of that, I doubt they would have made a big deal of it given the celebration.

[saemo]

Thanks for "keeping it real"', Brother!

As a "young buck," I have never met a person who has admitted to being opposed to the civil rights movement. Yet, the majority of white citizens were indeed opposed to civil rights (at least, until the early 1960s). How is it possible that I've never met one of these people? Did they all die out like the dinosaurs? Or are all people over the age of 60 liars? Or perhaps, it's because people tend to see the past through rose-colored glasses.

Now, I believe all of you about your recollections of the time, but I find it very hard to believe that MOST (or even very many) saints were awaiting blacks in the priesthood like Christmas. Most were probably indifferent (as was the case with civil rights). Given that most saints lived in all-white areas, it simply wouldn't be an issue that they thought about it.

Of course, some saints rejoiced at the news, but they would have rejoiced at ANY revelation from the prophet. For example, when the missionary age was reduced to 18, many saints rejoiced. However, it wasn't something that they had anxiously awaited. I certainly never heard anyone looking forward to "that long promised day."

Likewise, when OD3 allows for SSM in the Church, most saints will claim to be "overjoyed" by the revelation. Unfortunately, for us, we're not going to have the same luxury as our parents and grandparents to feign excitement, because there will be an Internet trail from FB, Twitter and message boards to record just how we felt about SSM. It's going to make for some interesting reading.

My parents saw the civil rights movement as people making trouble. Some 30 years later they would go on a mission to the Deep South. Their views had softened considerably, but they still made comments along the lines that the multigenerational, extreme poverty, is a case of laziness that is natural to African Americans. They are most definitely a product of their generation.

Ironically, I don't see SSM as a civil right. I ask my daughter, who is in her early twenties, what is the civil rights issue...she just says it is. I don't see the comparison to to the civil rights movement.

I don't think the joy experienced in 1978 can be over stated. It was as if a weight had been lifted from the people.

Edited March 2, 2014 by saemo

[JLHPROF]

Did you know it was going to change?

 - I was pretty young, but my parents did.

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

- The only resistance I remember was against those who questioned whether the authorities were right.  They weren't really allowed to question whether it was correct.  The expectation was that they accept it, no questions asked.

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

- In our ward there was a couple excommunicated because they refused to take part in any ordinance involving black members.  But this was in Europe, not in a high LDS area like SLC or Idaho.

[Anakin7]

Someone would probably need to be 50 and up to remember those issues.  I was 4 when it happened and couldn't tell you much. 

 

But if you have any questions about what it was like to be into Star Wars in the late 70's, I'm your guy.

Me to !!!.

 

In His Debt/GraceAnakin7

LDS JEDI KNIGHT

[Daniel2]

I am 41 (born in '73). I was completely unaware of the ban for my entire childhood and early youth. I was raised in a racially and religiously diverse American military environment. I was fiercely devout as a member of the church--it meant everything to me. My family and I had missionaries over for Sunday dinner regularly, held FEE each Monday, regularly prayed both morning and evening as a family, etc. I followed every teaching of church leadership to the best of my abilities--including daily personal prayer and scripture study.

I had heard rumblings from others that some considered Mormons to be racist. I never understood those rumors and vehemently denied them as having absolutely no basis and the product of anti Mormon critics who only wanted to destroy the church.

It wasn't until my junior year of high school (around 1989) that I first read about the as-of-then-already-defunct priesthood ban. I was shocked and mortified by it. Learning about it made me sick to my stomach--that queazy feeling I'd get when I stumbled across anything that was a true inward challenge to my faith. My parents explained it was something they didn't understand and had hoped would someday be changed. Like anything else that wasn't faith promoting which I accidentally uncovered, I quickly and quietly "put it on the shelf" and didn't think about it. Ignoring it worked for many years.

I was still uncomfortable with the ongoing social racist tendencies, amongst Latter-day Saints, against interracial relationships which persisted long after 1978. My sweet, loving LDS grandparents were quintessentially American as Apple Pie---but also deeply bigoted against blacks. They were products of their time.

I remember the priesthood ban being raised as a possible concern by someone in the MTC. My MTC teachers assured us no one in South America would ever ask about it (this was just at the dawn of the internet)--and they were right. No one ever did. My mission furthered my exploration of the gospel. I got up half hour earlier than required every day for personal study, and absorbed as many books as I could, including all three tomes of Doctrines of Salvation, The Miracle of Forgiveness, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Jesus the Christ, Mormon Doctrine, History of the Church, and (of course) all four of the Standard Works.

It wasn't until I was 30 that I began to question my Faith. The teachings of the church about homosexuality cracked open the door of my doubts. The priesthood ban contributed to the deepening of my concerns. Polygamy and whitewashing of church history--as personally witnessed and experienced over the course of my own life, including this very issue---ultimately sealed the deal. I formally resigned around age 32.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Daniel2

[Storm Rider]

I grew up in the south.  I agree with others that it was discussed that Blacks would receive the priesthood, but there was no time table. When the announcement was made I distinctly remember how stunning an announcement it was; that we were living in the latter-day days and all things were being restored.  I had a feeling of awe and gratitude that I was living in a time where I could see these great things evolve.

 

It is funny that we all have heard of stories about members who left because of this announcement, but I don't know a single person that left. They must be somewhere for so many people to talk about those that left, but I don't know anyone that did. 

[Calm]

My grandparents were bigots and yet they rejoiced at the announcement as well. I think it would be the type of racists who hated blacks---which is a very different type from those who saw them as inferior or treated them like children as did my grandparents---who would not want the Priesthood given them. Grandma would have had no problem with inviting a black VT into her home and while they might have been uncomfortable without a white as one companion of a home teaching set, there would have been no issue I believe with one of the couple not being white. Nor would they have left the Church over having a black bishop, their resistance would have been limited to making patronising comments about him.

Given that we are taught to look on all of mankind as our brothers and sisters, I would hope that there are few of the hating kind of racists in our faith and so I would assume that the vast majority rejoiced, even the racists among us. And with greater experience and education, hopefully the patronising kind are disappearing overtime.

Edited March 2, 2014 by calmoriah

[Palerider]

In 1970 I was a Junior in Highschool, just becoming what I would consider fully active in the church. The discussion of Blacks and the priesthood had arisen from time to time and in my hometown in Idaho, most people ascribed to what Brigham Young had said regarding Blacks not recieving the priesthood until all of the other posterity of Adam had recieved it first, which meant not until after the 2nd coming. 

 

We were taught to kind of avoid the topic if possible in the mission field, but when asked pointedly by our investigators we always taught that the Blacks had been less faithful in the pre-existence as the reason for the ban and that sometime in the next life they would receive all of the blessings. This is what we were instructed to do.

 

So even though we knew there was occasionaly outside pressure for the church to change it's doctrine, most of us figured it was just never going to happen in this life and didn't really anticipate it in the near future.

 

When the "revelation" was announced I was under the impression that most people in Utah where we were living thought that it was a good thing.

 

There were some who had difficulty reconciling the teachings of Brigham with the new change in doctrine, but mostly they just shrugged their shoulders and said, "o.k." 

Edited March 2, 2014 by Palerider

[Thinking]

Will there ever be a black apostle?

[strappinglad]

Will there ever be a black apostle?

All in good time, first bishops,SPs,area Seventy, then apostle. I'm guessing another couple of decades. Us old guys remember what happens if the process moves too rapidly.

[bcuzbcuz]

Did you know it was going to change?

Yes, of course - my recollection is that it was commonly taught that priesthood for blacks was due in the nebulous future... only the timing was unknown.

Could you talk about it?

Sure - I remember it being commonly taught.

Was it personal revelation?

No - it was teaching - even doctrine.

Were people taken aback or did they apostatize?

No - it was expected. Only the timing was unknown. In my experience, many were surprised in that they expected it to happen later, maybe even millennium-later, but they were glad it happened to the point of feeling like a weight was removed from the shoulders. (I grew up, by the way, primarily in central and southern California.)

Wow, that must have been a southern California thing. I got back from my mission '67, Stanford area, liberal northern Cal, or so I thought. As a RM I was expected to do a tour of wards, giving inspirational talks.In one talk I mentioned priesthood responsibilities and how to talk with black persons interested in Mormonism. The SP informed me my services for ward talks, "would no longer be necessary"

My wife talked with our SP when we lived in Canada, 10 years later, '75, about her discomfort with the church stance on blacks and the priesthood and she was told to not discuss this, even with me, and that she needed to pray, fast and study the scriptures better.

We left the church one year later....and no one ever had the slightest notion of this change "blowing in the wind". Not in Canada, at least

Edited March 2, 2014 by bcuzbcuz

[Bernard Gui]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

 

 

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

 

 

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

 

Did you know it was going to change?

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

 

Would you call it personal revelation?

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

I am 67 and I remember it very clearly.

 

1. I served a mission in Latin America in the late 60s. We taught people of mixed races (black) but were instructed to inform

them of the ban as part of the discussions. We were not instructed to teach that blacks were less faithful in the pre-mortal existence.

2. I studied the priesthood ban issue extensively and came to the conclusion that it would eventually be lifted. I believe there

is enough biblical evidence of various priesthood "bans" that it was not a concern for me....in the eternal perspective.

3. I attended BYU during the "protests," especially the U of Wyoming basketball team wearing black arm bands. There was

a lot of political pressure, but I did not sense the Church moving toward a resolution at that time. 

4. Sister Gui and I were living in Illinois during the middle 70s. One of our closest friends in our ward, a sister, was of mixed

race, and she and her husband knew their male children could not hold the priesthood. This was not an issue for them....they

believed the ban would be lifted and were faithful members.

5. The announcement came as we were driving from Illinois to our new home in Washington. We heard the announcement on

the radio news, and there was a lot of crying for joy in our car that day.

6. I do not know of anyone who was upset over the change, who left the church, or who criticized the leaders. The people

I knew were very, very happy, especially our friends back in Illinois.

7. When we established our new home, we had our first black high priest in our ward. He had been in the military in the

Philippines and had been ordained into a bishopric while there. In our stake he served as a high councilman. To my knowledge,

no one questioned his status, complained, or openly resented him. He became a good friend.

8. I don't believe this change could have come earlier.....the previous generation was not prepared like we were. We welcomed

it with open arms.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

Will there ever be a black apostle?

Why not?

[Garden Girl]

Would you say your family was the norm for your area with this view? Did you know of other that held opposing views?

I think we were  pretty much the norm... been so long ago I don't recall that much about others.  Don't think we discussed it that often, and I was a teenager that participated in lots of school activities with multi-race friends.  When the 1978 announcement did come, I was 38 years old, inactive, and felt more of a relief and closure... that what I was expecting had finally happened.

 

All in good time, first bishops,SPs,area Seventy, then apostle. I'm guessing another couple of decades. Us old guys remember what happens if the process moves too rapidly.

 

I don't think it will be decades... we already have black bishops, mission presidents, temple presidents... I think in the not too distant future we will see more and more Seventies drawn from these and then an apostle...

 

GG

[Scott Lloyd]

I apologize, I should have made this topic "for those 50+ years" The idea was to get people who lived through this part of LDS history as adults.

 

 

I am a convert and don't really know much about large LDS social settings in Utah, Idaho etc. I am asking to get an idea of where people stood and how someone could express personal revelation without rocking the boat of LDS leadership.

 

 

The year is 1970...8 years before blacks regain the Preisthood...

 

Did you know it was going to change?

 

If you did know, could you talk about it openly? If so, what resistence did you recieve? Where did the resistence come from?

 

Would you call it personal revelation?

 

Were there many taken aback from the 1978 change? Did any leave the church because of it?

I was in high school in Utah in 1970 and clearly remember conditions back then.

 

Most of us in the Church, especially in my generation, were very uncomfortable with the denial of the priesthood to black Latter-day Saints and longed for the day when it would be granted to them. We believed what Church leaders had said: that it would happen one day. But I never expected it would be within my lifetime; I don't think very many of us did, if any. When it happened in 1978, it was a shock that brought a collective euphoria to the Church membership that didn't subside for months.

 

I have seen pictures lately of the BYU Daily Universe "Extra" edition that was published on the day the announcement was made. I was on the staff at the time. I worked on that editon and have it in my files somewhere.

 

But though we hoped and longed for the day, I don't recall any agitation or pressure on the Brethren by people within the Church to bring it about, such as there is today with those who hold out the vain hope that God is going to repeal the law of chastity and declare gay marriage OK.

[readstoomuch]

I was in high school during the announcement and in Idaho there were only three black kids in my school. They were more popular than me, so it didn`t seem like they had any discrimination to me. Never liked the idea of the priesthood being withheld and the explanations never made sense to me. I was very grateful when the announcement happened and I remember feeling the spirit. I was at Kinney Shoes and heard it on the radio. It went like wildfire through the mall. When I went on my mission to the south and then lived there, some of our best members were black. In fact Eva helped put my wife`s burial clothes on. She was one of her best friends. She always had a smile and good joke. She and Melvin raised their kids in the Church, a good share of it before the announcement. Her husband died as a sealer in the temple.

[Coreyb]

1978 was over a decade before I was born, however, I would like to share the story that my Dad told me. He grew up in San Jose, California, in a white family, white ward, and white neighborhood. He was a bit of a racist, like his father and grandfather, and even set fire to the "beaner bench", where the Mexican kids would eat lunch, in junior high school. He left the church about 1975, while still a teen, to try his luck in "The World". He spent a few years in the Marine Corps, where his attitudes towards race were a bit softened by serving primarily with black Marines. After a life changing accident he returned to the Church in the late 80's, where he quickly married and moved up to rural Washington state to follow work. My family spent the 90's bouncing between western Washington (not many black folks) and Utah (not many black folks), with my Dad working construction,(not the most egalitarian environment ). Because of this he was never personally faced with serving/serving with/being served by black church members, and still held some of the older racist ideas he learned as a child. Of course he knew of the 78 revelation, but things you learn rarely take hold until they hit home. In 2001, we moved to Denver, Colorado, where there were several black ward members, and a big burly black man on the Stake High Council. On his first trip to the Denver Temple, he went through an endowment session with my Mother. He stood up at the end to go through the veil, and didn't notice the color of any hands. As he came through to the Celestial room, he saw the face of that Big, Burly, Black High-councilman looking at him, bringing him through. The Spirit hit him and it was as if he heard it say,"Its alright. This is my son too". He buried his face in the mans chest and sobbed. He is no longer a racist (though he still dislikes Muslims of any race, which we argue about), and he and my mom even took a black single mother and her son into our home for several weeks when she lost her apartment. He no longer holds to old race doctrines, and when the Church came out with the recent essay about the priesthood ban, I shared with him the link on Facebook, for which he thanked me and told me how good it is that this has come out.    kinda off topic, but I like it

Edited March 2, 2014 by Coreyb

[bcuzbcuz]

I was in high school in Utah in 1970 and clearly remember conditions back then.

 

Most of us in the Church, especially in my generation, were very uncomfortable with the denial of the priesthood to black Latter-day Saints and longed for the day when it would be granted to them. We believed what Church leaders had said: that it would happen one day. But I never expected it would be within my lifetime; I don't think very many of us did, if any. When it happened in 1978, it was a shock that brought a collective euphoria to the Church membership that didn't subside for months.

 

I have seen pictures lately of the BYU Daily Universe "Extra" edition that was published on the day the announcement was made. I was on the staff at the time. I worked on that editon and have it in my files somewhere.

 

But though we hoped and longed for the day, I don't recall any agitation or pressure on the Brethren by people within the Church to bring it about, such as there is today with those who hold out the vain hope that God is going to repeal the law of chastity and declare gay marriage OK.

Maybe Utah in the seventies was different than Utah in the 60's, when I lived there. Maybe the pollyanna fluffiness of flower power influenced attitudes that brought about changes. But somehow, I doubt it. But I do remember, being a rural boy from small town Canada, who moved to Salt Lake City, a city that was segregated along railway lines dviding east and west SLC, how shocked I was to hear the bishop's son and his pals crack a series of rascist jokes while we were at scout camp. And even the scout leaders laughed. No one was called to task.

Many years later and supposedly wiser, I know those rascist attitudes have their source in the home and they die slowly, or rather, take on a PC cloak of disguise. Glad to hear about the euphoria when the change was announced.

[CMZ]

I was 8 but I do remember it and I remember that people would say, "Yes, the blacks can get the priesthood in the next life," and someone else would say, "But, you never know, maybe it will be in this life." The announcement was in June of that year then reiterated in October conference. I still remember our family gathered around the television set and when President Tanner got up to speak my father excitedly saying, "This will probably be when he's going to mention the revelation about blacks and the Priesthood." He wanted to make sure we all paid attention and sustained it. Years later I read my father's journal entry of how he had first found out about it in June 1978 and how grateful he was for it.

Edited March 2, 2014 by CMZ

[saemo]

I am 41 (born in '73). I was completely unaware of the ban for my entire childhood and early youth. I was raised in a racially and religiously diverse American military environment. I was fiercely devout as a member of the church--it meant everything to me. My family and I had missionaries over for Sunday dinner regularly, held FEE each Monday, regularly prayed both morning and evening as a family, etc. I followed every teaching of church leadership to the best of my abilities--including daily personal prayer and scripture study.

I had heard rumblings from others that some considered Mormons to be racist. I never understood those rumors and vehemently denied them as having absolutely no basis and the product of anti Mormon critics who only wanted to destroy the church.

It wasn't until my junior year of high school (around 1989) that I first read about the as-of-then-already-defunct priesthood ban. I was shocked and mortified by it. My parents explained it was something they didn't understand and had hoped would someday be changed. Like anything else that wasn't faith promoting which I accidentally uncovered, I quickly and quietly "put it on the shelf" and didn't think about it. Ignoring it worked for many years.

I remember it being raised as a possible concern by someone in the MTC. My MTC teachers assured us no one in South America would ever ask about it (this was just at the dawn of the internet)--and they were right. No one ever did. My mission furthered my exploration of the gospel. I got up half hour earlier than required every day for personal study, and absorbed as many books as I could, including all three tomes of Doctrines of Salvation, The Miracle of Forgiveness, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Jesus the Christ, Mormon Doctrine, History of the Church, and (of course) all four of the Standard Works.

It wasn't until I was 30 that I began to question my Faith. The teachings of the church about homosexuality cracked open the door of my doubts. The priesthood ban contributed to the deepening of my concerns. Polygamy and whitewashing of church history--as personally witnessed and experienced over the course of my own life, including this very issue---ultimately sealed the deal. I formally resigned around age 32.

I am no longer LDS, but from the view of my parents, past teachings are past, so what is there to talk about? From 1978 to the mid 80s I was still an active to semi active member. The lessons on dark skin curses had vanished, which I saw as super fantastic, two thumbs up. I would not have wanted them to come back, not even so children who didn't remember could.hear about them.

 

The more recent dissembling of what was taught, seen then as divine guidance, now labeled opinion, is a problem for me personally. The church was not wrong, I was for thinking the church was wrong, when they weren't wrong, just opinionated. I solved that problem a couple of decades ago.

Edited March 2, 2014 by saemo

[Flyonthewall]

I turned 17 at the end of 1978. I grew up in Northern California, and to be honest, it was not on my mind at all.

We did not have any black members in the ward, or even stake, as far as I know so it was rarely brought to our attention.

I remember watching conference and when the announcement was made there was a commotion as if something significant had happened...I didn't understand what it was and had to ask: "What just happened?". When I was told blacks could now hold the priesthood, it was like "ohh"(a light bulb turning on). I don't remember any opposition to it, but a sense of celebration.

I don't remember any ban on talking about it, it just wasn't brought up much.

I don't remember anyone expecting it to happen.

[Calm]

Wow, that must have been a southern California thing. I got back from my mission '67, Stanford area, liberal northern Cal, or so I thought. As a RM I was expected to do a tour of wards, giving inspirational talks.In one talk I mentioned priesthood responsibilities and how to talk with black persons interested in Mormonism. The SP informed me my services for ward talks, "would no longer be necessary"

 

10 years later, just a bit north of that in Redwood City, I don't think that was an issue any more.  I can only judge from effects though.

[Danzo]

Many years later and supposedly wiser, I know those rascist attitudes have their source in the home and they die slowly, or rather, take on a PC cloak of disguise. Glad to hear about the euphoria when the change was announced.

 

I am glad you are here to tell us what  our attitudes really are, and what we really think.  

Edited March 2, 2014 by Danzo

[Thinking]

All in good time, first bishops,SPs,area Seventy, then apostle. I'm guessing another couple of decades. Us old guys remember what happens if the process moves too rapidly.

 

Why does it have to be all in good time? When it happens will he be young enough to have a reasonable chance of becoming the prophet?

 

Why not?

 

Why not indeed?