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Everything posted by juliann

  1. I wish we would add some of her thinking to the "covenant path." It adds much deeper meaning to something that has felt rather random to me. I was reading her books as they came out. She had a lot of critics then, but that is what happens in scholarship...although it's usually with younger scholars trying to find their footing by establishing new thinking, by discarding some of the old. I appreciated CGU's approach of including believers, her statement about Biblical studies discarding the only people who use the Bible quite telling.
  2. This is one of those parables that would have made sense to the people whose it was written for. There is also a corollary parable. There are underlying concepts we don't get in our day and age. I don't remember it all well enough to get into and it isn't important enough for me to research, but with explanation it does make sense. However, I have never heard of the wedding garment give away...I'd like some more references to that aside from "a Christian author."
  3. "The vast majority of murder-suicides are born out of desperation and depression, not devotion. They occur in the context of a controlling, yet emotionally dependent relationship that is threatened in some way and are, I suspect, committed by a partner who wants to end his or her own pain but who—deep down—can’t bear the thought of loved ones living happily without him." Wow, I'd never thought much about this unspeakable act...this makes a lot of sense when it comes to this mostly male violence event.
  4. I was able to get an introduction to Process Theology at Claremont. I was fascinated with it.
  5. Tyler said the streaming should be available for a short while. There have been some stunning presentations and the tech is stellar.
  6. Yes, it took me awhile to notice the wrinkle. That settles it for me. Plus, the death mask has those same deep eye sockets missing in the painting. The eyes and brows are quite different in the painting. With Emma's witness that the painting was not a good likeness, I think we have to go with the mask as the most accurate comparison. And I've always wondered why JS was always shown with an almost Hollywood boyish look which never seemed to match his ability to elicit such sacrifice from so many. The photo looks like a grown up who would be taken seriously, although he looks a bit haggard and tired which makes sense at that time.
  7. Uh, it would have shot down the speech and language program at a time where there is a shortage of therapists and programs. That is worth a lot. Which is why ASHA thinks it can get away with empty threats.
  8. Emma said the painting wasn't a good representation. The most compelling evidence is the pictures of Smith women descendants wearing the locket.
  9. Knock it off. Your scriptures had nothing to do with what I am talking about, 19th century polygamy and current beliefs. You are pretending that ancient scripture is the same thing without giving any support for that. Until you do, you have not provided any purpose for polygamy, only ancient stories in an era where it was unremarkable.
  10. If you are going to come in here and demand responses to personal questions, you do need to understand the culture and rules of this board. I'll try to make it simpler. You claimed that Pres. Hinckley's statement was not up to snuff because it was said in a TV interview. You now need to substantiate that he said something different to make your claim meaningful. You have now moved the goal posts to say he did mean it. Whether it was "doctrinal" then is irrelevant. It was, of course, treated as doctrine then. No one would have done it otherwise. But I have never made that an issue. My argument is with those who insist it is unchanging doctrine. And I have not been unclear about that. You won't do well here if you attempt to change the discussion whenever you are asked to document your assertions.
  11. If you are researching ancient texts, you research. And for solid research, you need the original language. You do it with methodology like critical source, text, literary, etc. criticism. You are merely cherry picking verses and pretending that is meaningful.
  12. You have not presented any research at all, you are only quoting scripture and providing your self-serving interpretations. Insulting people is not a substitute for knowledge of the topic.
  13. Are you serious? So the purpose of polygyny is to give men lots of offspring through sex slaves. Lovely. Now go research the topic of this thread.
  14. It's no secret the divorce rate in polygamy was high, Utah became an easy divorce state for the nation. That usually doesn't happen in happy marriages.
  15. You mean I’m emotional, eh. It’s only a matter of time before that starts… That is such a question begging summation it can’t be answered.
  16. You are an admitted fundamentalist. There are just as many negative accounts, probably far more, than positive. You seriously need to stop grasping at straws. It doesn’t work now that women’s diaries are being researched. Also, the divorce rate in polygamist marriages makes your claim specious.
  17. That is the 60,000 dollar question. What IS the benefit of polygamy? Eternally. What is the point? What possible spiritual benefit could there be for multiple wives or husbands? How does that make anyone more righteous than monogamy? The only possible reason would be is if there are left over men or women. I have asked this for over a decade. Crickets.
  18. None of your business. That is a faith based question which is against board rules. CFRs are your business. You do need to respond. You have brushed up the statement of a modern prophet as not being valid. Provide documentation for that rather than opinion. I'll tell you why that will be especially difficult, even though Pres. Hinckley said this in a TV interview, he mysteriously never, ever corrected it, if it was an error.
  19. False dilemmas again. It could come from God and be completely messed up. I think of it like the tries at the United Order. Or, it could have been JS's understanding of what God wanted in tying the human family together through sealilngs. There are more possibilties, it was an extremely complex situation mixed in with societal, political, and social mores of the times. Grunting out did it come from God or NOT stuff is tiresome.
  20. But only women produce children. It doesn't matter how many men are involved when you only count the actual producers. Also, a polyandrous wife would likely have more children than a polygynous wife. I think we still get tied up in this idea that children are only counted as part of the man's progeny in polygynous families. I'm sure there not being enough men would be a reason, but...that was never a concern in the reverse when it came to polygny.
  21. LOL. OK, I'll play. While talking about obeying the law and quoting an article of faith, Pres. Hinckley stated unequivocably that polygamy was not doctrine. I've provided a source, now you provide one of Pres Hinckley or any other prophet in this century who has called polygamy "doctrine." CFR
  22. Anybody familiar with ASHA would know this was all a big Tarzan scream.
  23. First, ASHA has managed to corner certification. You need it. Like teacher's unions, ASHA has gone far left and forces clinicians to pay dues to keep those credentials, even though they have been earned. They spend a lot of money on themselves and it is one of those inbred orgs, where continuing education units are given for approved expensive seminars of those in their ranks. This means that you get some strange conferences riddled with opinion...and where the presenter also sells books and materials through ASHA. I despise them. They set up rules that make it harder, they have never seemed to be there to help the individual clinicians. That said, you take courses in a University program, you cannot possibly have hands on practice in every disorder. Nor could you take every course. First, they are dependent on people who come in for services. So there seems to be two pieces, they are going after them for not providing service to people seeking it, and not providing clinical experience to students. Which is nuts, you can't be proficient in everything because therapy runs the gamet from private clinical, hospital, and school services. There is voice, swallowing, language (including reading), articulation, dysfluency....with a myriad of disorders running through all that, such as autism, CP, Downs, aphasias, etc. You pretty much get let loose and learn on the job. To really learn voice, for example, you would have to be in a clinic or hospital where those patients come in. The only voice I did in schools was vocal nodules. T If I had an objection to gender voice therapy, it would be over the safety in lowering or raising natural pitch. Normally, therapy would try to fix that not create it. So take the gender verbiage out, and this is a part of voice therapy anyway. But this is a typical chest thumping ASHA move. They would also be very concerned about shutting down a big program like that. It is next to impossible to get into the Masters programs. There aren't enough of them. This would hurt ASHA as much as the university because they need the extorted yearly dues. It also seems like a huge lawsuit because they don't require clinical experience in all fields for anybody so I would think they would have to the same rule for all disorders, not just pick one.
  24. https://www.lds-mormon.com/lkl_00-shtml/
  25. That is sad, but it is the abandoned woman suffering the most here, and the children. Ten children only makes her plight worse, it doesn't give any indication that she wasn't abandoned for all practical purposes. These are the situations where children don't even recognize their fathers. I'm sure he may have tried his best...but he had at least another family for comfort. She had nothing. This is a sort of cry me a river thing. They were not forced to take so many wives. Again, men had more than one family with which to seek comfort. There are also stories of families who went without so that when the man showed up there would be food and wood to burn. This is why anecdotes don't tell us much about the big picture. What you shared of this also indicates that if he wasn't visiting her regularly, she also wasn't getting any kind of support...which is why it made no difference if he was there or not. And BY, who never claimed to be a revelatory man, did much worse. We would be in a huge mess if everything that came from God is eternal. I find this a very odd position to take. I'll stick with Pres. Hinckley who flat out said it isn't doctrinal, and other leaders who consistently refer to it as a practice that ended.
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