Hans H. Mattsson, Area 70 On Mormon Stories

[canard78]

http://mormonstories.org/hans-mattsson/

Intro:

Hans H. Mattsson is a 3rd generation LDS church member from Sweden who served as a bishop and stake president in Sweden before serving in the LDS church 3rd Quorum of the Seventy from 2000-2005 in the Europe Central area under LDS Apostle L. Tom Perry.

Episode 4 was particularly moving. Mattsson is sincere and heartfelt. His interview is a great way to bring greater understanding to those who sometimes misunderstand members who experience a faith crisis.

He does not rail or snipe. He expressed the hurt and sadness. He has studied this for 8 years, initially motivated out of a desire to help and has discussed it with GAs and church historians without finding a satisfactory answer. He still sees Mormonism as 'a' good way. But not the only 'true and living.'

I highly recommend this to you. Especially episodes 4 and 5.

[thesometimesaint]

Mormonism is not only a good way to live, but the only way back to our Heavenly Father.

[canard78]

Mormonism is not only a good way to live, but the only way back to our Heavenly Father.

I fully agree with the first half of your statement. I fully disagree with the second half.

[Glenn101]

Mormonism is not only a good way to live, but the only way back to our Heavenly Father.

I fully agree with the first half of your statement. I fully disagree with the second half.

Can you provide us with information on another path?

Thanks,

Glenn

[DBMormon]

Mormonism is not only a good way to live, but the only way back to our Heavenly Father.

dissagree. The Doctrine of Christ is the way to return H.F. Mormonism is only this dispensations authorized path

[DBMormon]

Can you provide us with information on another path?

Thanks,

Glenn

Mormonism is the institution that administers the Doctrine of Christ in this dispensation, but it is also more then the DoC. It also contains cultural rules, policies, and incorrect methods that are unessacary for salvation. There is the gospel and the Church - the gospel is the path

[DBMormon]

great interview. If you open the pdf of the meeting w/ elder jensen, one quickly gets the feel that with a limited time they were in over their head. They needed way more time and they also needed to break down assumptions and expectations as without doing that, the dogmatism of their misplaced beliefs was very much at the root of theirs and most others faith crisis

[DBMormon]

it is in th NYtimes as well

[Scott Lloyd]

dissagree. The Doctrine of Christ is the way to return H.F. Mormonism is only this dispensations authorized path

Mormonism (so-called) administers the doctrine of Christ. It is nothing less than the Church of Jesus Christ. There is great meaning in that name, and it is deliberate. It was Christ Himself who designated it as "the only true and living church on the face of the earth." We have no right to dilute or rationalize away His words, and there is danger in doing so.

[strappinglad]

Let's see if we can list a few other paths that would most assuredly lead one back to the Father. One could join any of the following groups and carefully adhere to the precepts. The Hell's Angels, the Crips, the Chinese Communist party , the Hezbollah, the Shining Path, the Falun Gong , the BPOE Elks, the Daughters of the American Revolution , the John Birch Society, PETA , the BSoA , ... All roads lead to Rome. All paths lead to heaven. The concept that " strait is the gate and narrow the path that leadeth..." is so old fashioned.

[Teancum]

great interview. If you open the pdf of the meeting w/ elder jensen, one quickly gets the feel that with a limited time they were in over their head. They needed way more time and they also needed to break down assumptions and expectations as without doing that, the dogmatism of their misplaced beliefs was very much at the root of theirs and most others faith crisis

Jensen and Turley were horrible. A debacle.

[Teancum]

Mormonism (so-called) administers the doctrine of Christ. It is nothing less than the Church of Jesus Christ. There is great meaning in that name, and it is deliberate. It was Christ Himself who designated it as "the only true and living church on the face of the earth." We have no right to dilute or rationalize away His words, and there is danger in doing so.

.

It was Joseph Smith claiming Christ was designating the LDS church as the only true and living church. Someone who rejects that Smith was speaking for Jesus or perhaps believes Joseph was inserting some of his own ideas into the pot would certainly consider your comments dogmatic.

[canard78]

Can you provide us with information on another path?

Thanks,

Glenn

Mormonism is not "the way."

I believe in one path towards becoming more like one God. We're either travelling up the path towards godliness or down the path away from it.

I consider Mormonism to be the best vehicle for me to travel that path. The "only true and living" one for me at this time in my life. But there are lots of other vehicles for travelling that path.

Elder Mattsson makes this point very eloquently in part 5. He even expresses a desire to find a middle way of association with Mormonism even after his changes perspective.

His local leaders on the other hand (the area president) forced a choice. In and shut up, or out.

That's a terrible choice to offer and one that should have never been put on the table.

[canard78]

Jensen and Turley were horrible. A debacle.

I'm only part way through it. So far it's painful reading.

Edited July 22, 2013 by canard78

[canard78]

Let's see if we can list a few other paths that would most assuredly lead one back to the Father. One could join any of the following groups and carefully adhere to the precepts. The Hell's Angels, the Crips, the Chinese Communist party , the Hezbollah, the Shining Path, the Falun Gong , the BPOE Elks, the Daughters of the American Revolution , the John Birch Society, PETA , the BSoA , ... All roads lead to Rome. All paths lead to heaven. The concept that " strait is the gate and narrow the path that leadeth..." is so old fashioned.

I don't even know who some of those are. And I didn't say all roads lead to Rome. The same road that leads to Rome also leads away from it if you're headed the other way.

[bear]

Havent heard the podcast or read the article yet, but here is a copy/paste from my message at staylds forum:

I served a mission in Sweden and live in the neighbouring country. Sad to see a man finding stuff out after so many years. I don't know the man personally but I have heard of him and know his twin brother and the family a bit. Luckily I stumbled across "stuff" in my late teens and later on after my mission so I kind of got used to the thought that everything isn't textbook perfect, over a long period where I was forming my religious identity anyway. (Not that you can only do that in your youth, but I think it might be easier). He comes from a very active church family with his twin brother being the stake pres. The last couple of years A LOT of members in Sweden went inactive in the church because of historical stuff. And I mean A LOT!

Very Recently one of the members of the former stake presidency in an area in Denmark (where I live) went inactive because of the same issues.

I don't know if that will start a wave here in Denmark as well. My own father and father in law are inactive now because of the same stuff and there are not a lot of members in Europe already.

It makes me so sad and angry everytime I hear of yet another person leaving. I want the info to come out from the top as soon as possible because it is causing so much grief and sorrow in people's lives. Much more than the average active person can understand.

I even wrote the current stake president telling him about my faith crisis and how I come out on the other side with MUCH more stronger relationship to God (and a much more open view of what church is and what it should do for people). I plan on writing an email to the inactive former member of the stake pres as well, pointing him to this site among other things and the various podcasts. And most of all I just think people need to feel that what they are going through is totally ok and justified - but it doesn't mean that they have to throw the baby(their religion) out with the bathwater.

Aaaarggghhh - it makes me so sad. There is a (middle)way to stay in church but many times people don't even know that there is. And not necessarily a middle way, just a new view which personnaly freeed me from all the folklore and "evil traditions" that crept into the church. Now I see the gospel as the center thing and the church as the next important thing..... It's hard to explain..using an iPhone to pour out my heart here:)

sorry - just had to vent.

And just to add to that:

Its going to be so interesting to see where the church is heading in the future. I personally think something BIG is happening the next 10-20 years. I think we will be moving FAST away from the recent 30 years of "fundamentalisation" (is that even a word? of members of the church. I think with people like Henry B eyring and Dieter Uchtdorf we will see a much more dynamic, nuanced, embracing and "big tent" mormonism in the next decades. I really hope that for my kids!

[Tacenda]

Havent heard the podcast or read the article yet, but here is a copy/paste from my message at staylds forum:

I served a mission in Sweden and live in the neighbouring country. Sad to see a man finding stuff out after so many years. I don't know the man personally but I have heard of him and know his twin brother and the family a bit. Luckily I stumbled across "stuff" in my late teens and later on after my mission so I kind of got used to the thought that everything isn't textbook perfect, over a long period where I was forming my religious identity anyway. (Not that you can only do that in your youth, but I think it might be easier). He comes from a very active church family with his twin brother being the stake pres. The last couple of years A LOT of members in Sweden went inactive in the church because of historical stuff. And I mean A LOT!

Very Recently one of the members of the former stake presidency in an area in Denmark (where I live) went inactive because of the same issues.

I don't know if that will start a wave here in Denmark as well. My own father and father in law are inactive now because of the same stuff and there are not a lot of members in Europe already.

It makes me so sad and angry everytime I hear of yet another person leaving. I want the info to come out from the top as soon as possible because it is causing so much grief and sorrow in people's lives. Much more than the average active person can understand.

I even wrote the current stake president telling him about my faith crisis and how I come out on the other side with MUCH more stronger relationship to God (and a much more open view of what church is and what it should do for people). I plan on writing an email to the inactive former member of the stake pres as well, pointing him to this site among other things and the various podcasts. And most of all I just think people need to feel that what they are going through is totally ok and justified - but it doesn't mean that they have to throw the baby(their religion) out with the bathwater.

Aaaarggghhh - it makes me so sad. There is a (middle)way to stay in church but many times people don't even know that there is. And not necessarily a middle way, just a new view which personnaly freeed me from all the folklore and "evil traditions" that crept into the church. Now I see the gospel as the center thing and the church as the next important thing..... It's hard to explain..using an iPhone to pour out my heart here:)

sorry - just had to vent.

And just to add to that:

Its going to be so interesting to see where the church is heading in the future. I personally think something BIG is happening the next 10-20 years. I think we will be moving FAST away from the recent 30 years of "fundamentalisation" (is that even a word? of members of the church. I think with people like Henry B eyring and Dieter Uchtdorf we will see a much more dynamic, nuanced, embracing and "big tent" mormonism in the next decades. I really hope that for my kids!

I think you'll enjoy the podcasts. He at first sounded like he was sort of the "country bumpkin" someone else here alluded him to be, but the further you get into listening to each podcast, you realize it is the language barrior that is causing that impression. He and his wife are really sweet people. I won't ruin it for you I hope, by telling you one thing they mention that you and a lot of us can relate to. He said he and his wife feel like they are in a waiting room. Like someone that has visited a doctor and than waiting for the diagnosis. They are anxiously waiting to see the direction the church will go now, seeing the exit of many once faithful members. He likened it to the bombing of the twin towers in NY. And said the buildings were completely destroyed but are being replaced with even more beautiful structures, not his exact words but he was saying our church might need some kind of restructuring to best fit the problem at hand. In my opinion it can't help but get worse unless something major happens and hopefully help a lot of people that are suffering so much. BTW, Staylds is a great middleway forum to be on. Maybe people like John Dehlin etc. are inspired to put in place somewhere for people to land and stay put to ride whatever this is out and not completely leave for good.

[canard78]

I think you'll enjoy the podcasts. He at first sounded like he was sort of the "country bumpkin" someone else here alluded him to be, but the further you get into listening to each podcast, you realize it is the language barrior that is causing that impression. He and his wife are really sweet people. I won't ruin it for you I hope, by telling you one thing they mention that you and a lot of us can relate to. He said he and his wife feel like they are in a waiting room. Like someone that has visited a doctor and than waiting for the diagnosis. They are anxiously waiting to see the direction the church will go now, seeing the exit of many once faithful members. He likened it to the bombing of the twin towers in NY. And said the buildings were completely destroyed but are being replaced with even more beautiful structures, not his exact words but he was saying our church might need some kind of restructuring to best fit the problem at hand. In my opinion it can't help but get worse unless something major happens and hopefully help a lot of people that are suffering so much. BTW, Staylds is a great middleway forum to be on. Maybe people like John Dehlin etc. are inspired to put in place somewhere for people to land and stay put to ride whatever this is out and not completely leave for good.

When I was listening to the podcast it also occurred to me that those with an untrained ear might think the same. I've had a lot of interaction with Scandinavians so an used to the accent. I'd like to see the people who characterise him as a "yokel" give as deep and sincere an interview in a second language.

[canard78]

Havent heard the podcast or read the article yet, but here is a copy/paste from my message at staylds forum:

I served a mission in Sweden and live in the neighbouring country. Sad to see a man finding stuff out after so many years. I don't know the man personally but I have heard of him and know his twin brother and the family a bit. Luckily I stumbled across "stuff" in my late teens and later on after my mission so I kind of got used to the thought that everything isn't textbook perfect

Some on here have been critical of him saying that Joseph's polygamy came as a surprise to him.

Do you think that's reasonable? As a Swedish member who was raised in the pre-Internet era, would he have had many other resources available? Was this common knowledge in Sweden?

I ask because I'm fairly sure that it's not widely known in the UK.

[Avatar4321]

I fully agree with the first half of your statement. I fully disagree with the second half.

That makes absolutely no sense. The First half of his statement is absolutely meaningless without the second half. Without the Second half it's just a fragment that sounds like he is completely insane because he isn't finishing his thought.

[Avatar4321]

Some on here have been critical of him saying that Joseph's polygamy came as a surprise to him.

Do you think that's reasonable? As a Swedish member who was raised in the pre-Internet era, would he have had many other resources available? Was this common knowledge in Sweden?

I ask because I'm fairly sure that it's not widely known in the UK.

He had the Doctrine and Covenants, correct?

[canard78]

That makes absolutely no sense. The First half of his statement is absolutely meaningless without the second half. Without the Second half it's just a fragment that sounds like he is completely insane because he isn't finishing his thought.

Thanks. Grammar is important to me too. So I should have said "I would reverse your statement: Mormonism is a good way to live, but is not the only way back to our Heavenly Father."

[bear]

It surprises me everytime someone says they didnt know JS practiced polygamy. I live in Denmark and i am 31 - so i am a fair bit younger than him, but still. I cant remember a time when i didnt know about JS and polygamy. It might be an age thing - as in - they grew up in an age where it wasnt talked about - but really, anyone with just a little interest in history will know this imo.

[Avatar4321]

Thanks. Grammar is important to me too. So I should have said "I would reverse your statement: Mormonism is a good way to live, but is not the only way back to our Heavenly Father."

I wasnt trying to be nitpicky. It just confused the heck out of me.

[Avatar4321]

It surprises me everytime someone says they didnt know JS practiced polygamy. I live in Denmark and i am 31 - so i am a fair bit younger than him, but still. I cant remember a time when i didnt know about JS and polygamy. It might be an age thing - as in - they grew up in an age where it wasnt talked about - but really, anyone with just a little interest in history will know this imo.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can be a member of the Church for five minutes without knowing about it. It's almost always the first question people ask about when they find out you are mormon.