strappinglad Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 As I have mentioned before, I am rereading all the scriptures this year. People have presented God as either the OT vengeful , angry God , or a loving , kind God from the NT. The D&C revelations seem to tend toward the former. If required to present a profile of God from your reading of the scriptures and personal interaction, what would you list as the main 3 or 4 traits that God has ? 1
mfbukowski Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 It's good to know what He's LIKE as long as we know that that is not how He IS. We can't fathom how He IS. We have some stories sure, and he reveals himself to us personally, but get the whole picture? No way! Maybe some of you do not know this story. It's about St. Augustine on the beach. At that time Augustine was Bishop of Hippo, a very important post as a cleric and also actually politically. He was walking along the beach thinking about the nature of God. He came upon a little boy who dug a hole on the beach and was holding a shell, running back and forth putting water into it. Augustine asked the boy what he was doing. Quote “I am trying to bring all the sea into this hole,” the boy replied with a sweet smile. “But that is impossible, my dear child, the hole cannot contain all that water” said Augustine. The boy paused in his work, stood up, looked into the eyes of the Saint, and replied, “It is no more impossible than what you are trying to do – comprehend the immensity of the mystery of the Holy Trinity with your small intelligence.” The Saint was absorbed by such a keen response from that child, and turned his eyes from him for a short while. When he glanced down to ask him something else, the boy had vanished. https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/h065rp.Shell.html I think we do VERY well as members of the church in understanding God- I think our story is absolutely the best understanding God has given to mankind so far. For us to see Him as a Father, he must be immanent, IN the universe, not some transcendent cloud. That is a powerful notion. If immanent, he can have a body- actually BE our Father, who cares about us, hears and understands us. He has a glorified human body and so does his Son. That eliminates the need of all the rest of Christianity to explain how Christ can be all Human and all God at the same time. To be Human is to have the seed to become Godly. We all have the same nature ultimately as God AND the Christ yet they are infinitely above us in spirituality and goodness and have had eons to develop in both the pre-existence AND resurrection to develop their intelligence far far beyond anything we can imagine in this state of our existence. It just makes sense like no other view of God in my opinion. But do we have it all?? No, that would be like trying to put the ocean into a hole with a shell 3
Meadowchik Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 23 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Lively, life of the party. I like that.
CV75 Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 6 hours ago, strappinglad said: As I have mentioned before, I am rereading all the scriptures this year. People have presented God as either the OT vengeful , angry God , or a loving , kind God from the NT. The D&C revelations seem to tend toward the former. If required to present a profile of God from your reading of the scriptures and personal interaction, what would you list as the main 3 or 4 traits that God has ? I'd say He is like the best of what we were, what we are and what we will become. Those are three; a fourth all-encompassing trait might be "oneness."
Duncan Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 I have found this to be true, from Pres. Marion G. Romney "may I remind you that you can not give yourself poor in this work; you can only give yourself rich. I have satisfied myself regarding the truthfulness of the statement made to me by Elder Melvin J. Ballard as he set me apart for my mission in 1920: " A person can not give a crust to the Lord without receiving a loaf in return. " 2
MiserereNobis Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 8 hours ago, mfbukowski said: It's good to know what He's LIKE as long as we know that that is not how He IS. We can't fathom how He IS. We have some stories sure, and he reveals himself to us personally, but get the whole picture? No way! Maybe some of you do not know this story. It's about St. Augustine on the beach. At that time Augustine was Bishop of Hippo, a very important post as a cleric and also actually politically. He was walking along the beach thinking about the nature of God. He came upon a little boy who dug a hole on the beach and was holding a shell, running back and forth putting water into it. Augustine asked the boy what he was doing. https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/h065rp.Shell.html I think we do VERY well as members of the church in understanding God- I think our story is absolutely the best understanding God has given to mankind so far. For us to see Him as a Father, he must be immanent, IN the universe, not some transcendent cloud. That is a powerful notion. If immanent, he can have a body- actually BE our Father, who cares about us, hears and understands us. He has a glorified human body and so does his Son. That eliminates the need of all the rest of Christianity to explain how Christ can be all Human and all God at the same time. To be Human is to have the seed to become Godly. We all have the same nature ultimately as God AND the Christ yet they are infinitely above us in spirituality and goodness and have had eons to develop in both the pre-existence AND resurrection to develop their intelligence far far beyond anything we can imagine in this state of our existence. It just makes sense like no other view of God in my opinion. But do we have it all?? No, that would be like trying to put the ocean into a hole with a shell While obviously I disagree with your view of the nature of God, I gave you a rep because I appreciated you pointing out that there is no way for us to know what God is, only what He is like 2
InCognitus Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 It's hard to pick just four, but I'll go with: Love Wisdom Just Integrity When I was studying the book of Exodus a few months ago, I came across some commentary on Exodus 20 (the Ten Commandments) saying that one Jewish tradition was that the Ten Commandments were written on two tablets of stone, with five commandments written on each tablet. The first tablet was said to contain the five laws related to man’s relationship to God, and the second to contain the five laws related to man’s relationship to his fellow man. The fifth commandment was the one that puzzled me about this theory, however, because it is this one: "Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee" The explanation the commentary gave about why that commandment is among those of man's relationship to God pretty much summarizes a lot of my thinking about what God is like. It said this: “This Commandment (to honour thy father and thy mother) follows the Sabbath command, because the Sabbath is the source and the guarantor of the family life; and it is among the Commandments engraved on the First Tablet, the laws of piety toward God, because parents stand in the place of God, so far as their children are concerned. Elsewhere in Scripture, the duty to one's parents stands likewise next to the duties towards God (Lev. 19:3)”. There is a true principle touched upon in this idea that honoring our father and mother has an association to our relationship with God: The family unit is the model from which we can understand God’s love for us and our relationship to Him. Understanding our relationship to God helps us understand how the commandments are expressions of his love for us. So I think of our relationship to our Heavenly Father (and each other) as a family, and he is the most wise, loving, just, and full of integrity Father anyone could ever have. He knows exactly what we need for our education, growth, and development. And even though some of us are learning (or going to be learning) some very hard lessons, I think we will know in the end exactly why our own choices led us to the "reward" our Father will give us.
JAHS Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 Patient Forgiving Fair and equal treatment for all A good parent
RevTestament Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 12 hours ago, mfbukowski said: It's good to know what He's LIKE as long as we know that that is not how He IS. We can't fathom how He IS. We have some stories sure, and he reveals himself to us personally, but get the whole picture? No way! Maybe some of you do not know this story. It's about St. Augustine on the beach. At that time Augustine was Bishop of Hippo, a very important post as a cleric and also actually politically. He was walking along the beach thinking about the nature of God. He came upon a little boy who dug a hole on the beach and was holding a shell, running back and forth putting water into it. Augustine asked the boy what he was doing. https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/h065rp.Shell.html I think we do VERY well as members of the church in understanding God- I think our story is absolutely the best understanding God has given to mankind so far. For us to see Him as a Father, he must be immanent, IN the universe, not some transcendent cloud. That is a powerful notion. If immanent, he can have a body- actually BE our Father, who cares about us, hears and understands us. He has a glorified human body and so does his Son. That eliminates the need of all the rest of Christianity to explain how Christ can be all Human and all God at the same time. To be Human is to have the seed to become Godly. We all have the same nature ultimately as God AND the Christ yet they are infinitely above us in spirituality and goodness and have had eons to develop in both the pre-existence AND resurrection to develop their intelligence far far beyond anything we can imagine in this state of our existence. It just makes sense like no other view of God in my opinion. But do we have it all?? No, that would be like trying to put the ocean into a hole with a shell 4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: While obviously I disagree with your view of the nature of God, I gave you a rep because I appreciated you pointing out that there is no way for us to know what God is, only what He is like While I appreciate the sentiments of my pal Mark, I have to disagree. Yeshua showed us exactly what the Father is - wasn't He in the express image? Yet, no one seems to believe that...
MiserereNobis Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, RevTestament said: While I appreciate the sentiments of my pal Mark, I have to disagree. Yeshua showed us exactly what the Father is - wasn't He in the express image? Yet, no one seems to believe that... And I'd say that we cannot fathom who Jesus is in His entirety, either. Do you really think you completely fathom and understand who God is? 1
InCognitus Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 14 hours ago, strappinglad said: As I have mentioned before, I am rereading all the scriptures this year. People have presented God as either the OT vengeful , angry God , or a loving , kind God from the NT. The D&C revelations seem to tend toward the former. I've heard many people outside the church talk about the God of the Old Testament as being very different from the God of the New Testament. But I think this view is partly shaped by the bulk of the subject matter. A big part of the Old Testament is from prophets writing to and about people who have messed up after receiving a covenant, and God is chastising them and trying to straighten them out. The New Testament is about God extending his hand to these same people again, with an opportunity for another type of exodus and redemption from the bondage brought about in this world. And the New Testament doesn't get far enough along before the prophets and apostles are killed, to show us God's interaction with the behavior of the people when they mess up again, so I think it's unfair to get a complete picture of God's character from the New Testament alone. The Doctrine and Covenants, and I would include the Book of Mormon, bring both of these views together, where we get to see a more complete picture of God's character in both the ups and downs of the behavior of mankind. But I also see lots of evidence for the NT God in the OT, and vice versa. 1
mfbukowski Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, RevTestament said: While I appreciate the sentiments of my pal Mark, I have to disagree. Yeshua showed us exactly what the Father is - wasn't He in the express image? Yet, no one seems to believe that... Well then how did he resurrect himself, how does the Light of Christ work, how does one organize universes, pull off the atonement and hear every child's prayer simultaneously? I think He might have left a tad out.... Edited November 2, 2019 by mfbukowski 2
strappinglad Posted November 2, 2019 Author Posted November 2, 2019 Consider these 2 scenes : 1. I the Lord am bound when you do what I say, but if you do not what I say , you have no promise. Seems like a reasonable father. 2. If you do what I say you will be very blessed, but if you don't , I will utterly destroy you. Seems on the tyrannical side, no? Is the difference who is being addressed, or the circumstance, or just a prophet projecting?
JLHPROF Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: And I'd say that we cannot fathom who Jesus is in His entirety, either. Do you really think you completely fathom and understand who God is? No, of course not. So we spend our lives trying to understand. Because "this is life eternal, to know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." Thankful for the restored gospel that brings us closer to that goal. 1
InCognitus Posted November 2, 2019 Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, strappinglad said: Consider these 2 scenes : 1. I the Lord am bound when you do what I say, but if you do not what I say , you have no promise. Seems like a reasonable father. 2. If you do what I say you will be very blessed, but if you don't , I will utterly destroy you. Seems on the tyrannical side, no? Is the difference who is being addressed, or the circumstance, or just a prophet projecting? I think you have it right, that the difference has to do with circumstances and who is being addressed. A lot of the stuff regarding Israel in the Old Testament had to do with political issues with Israel as a nation among the other nations in the middle-east, and sometimes the "destruction" is not about individuals specifically (although it might include that), but about Israel or Judah (or whatever the case may be) as a nation. Some of it may be prophetic hyperbole (if that's a correct way to describe it), perhaps like the covenant promises and curses of Deuteronomy 28. There are many blessings promised in verses 1 through 14 that are totally contrasted by the "curses" that are pronounced in verses 15 through the end of the chapter. The promises like "the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth" (verse 1) are compared to the curses, such as this in verse 48 "Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee." But aside from the pronouncements about Israel as a nation, there are some personal salvation issues that may be addressed by some of the language that make total sense from a Latter-day Saints understanding of the covenants of God. In those cases, the language is about being "cut off from the people" of God. Psalm 37 is a good example of this, where it says, "evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth" (verse 9). There are several contrasts made between the blessings of the righteous compared with the judgement of the wicked within that chapter, but it seems that the language of "destruction" of the wicked has to do with them being cut off from the people of God and their inheritance of the earth. For example verse 38 "But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off". As I said, I think this makes complete sense from a covenant point of view. There are a lot of blessings and a great inheritance that comes from keeping God's covenants, but choosing to break the covenants may result in being "cut off" or "destroyed" from among the people of God and their inheritance. It's not because God is tyrannical, it's simply the result of our choices in the matter. Interesting topic, by the way. Edited November 2, 2019 by InCognitus
mfbukowski Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 On 11/2/2019 at 3:13 PM, strappinglad said: ...just a prophet projecting? Yep.
pogi Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 He is the perfect balance of being merciful and just. In a word, God is good!
rchorse Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 Good Kind Generous Patient Helpful I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.
smac97 Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 11:33 PM, strappinglad said: As I have mentioned before, I am rereading all the scriptures this year. People have presented God as either the OT vengeful , angry God , or a loving , kind God from the NT. The D&C revelations seem to tend toward the former. If required to present a profile of God from your reading of the scriptures and personal interaction, what would you list as the main 3 or 4 traits that God has ? Omniscient. Omnipotent. Omnibenevolent. Perfectly Just. Perfectly Merciful. Unchanging/Constant. Our Father. Thanks, -Smac
2BizE Posted November 4, 2019 Posted November 4, 2019 God is also: Jealous vindictive cruel unforgiving
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