Pete Ahlstrom Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: I know individuals who have paid thousands of dollars to go on excursions, trips, etc., to learn about life skills and being independent. Were these parents abusive to their young son? No, I don't see it as abusive. Nor do I see any other parent here capable of judging the situation with such limited facts. Would I make the same choice? No, I don't think I would have. However, I have not walked in the shoes of these parents either. Did the grandparents say the right things? Obviously! I suggest we keep the condemnation to ourselves and live our own lives, make our own decisions about how to assist our children transition from childhood to adulthood. Regardless of our personal feelings I have yet to meet a perfect parent. I have met those I truly admire as being great parents in challenging situations. What this couple did was a drastic choice, but it worked and they did not have to pay $2500 for the experience of a lifetime. The need to defend is very strong with you. I would think anyone looking from the outside would blame the parents and not the church. 1
JulieM Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said: The need to defend is very strong with you. I would think anyone looking from the outside would blame the parents and not the church. You're right. This has nothing to do with the church (who would never advocate doing what these parents did). Even though it turned out ok, the parents were very wrong to leave this boy in a situation that could have gone horribly wrong. Anytime a parent is making a decision involving their child's safety, the right thing to do is to alway error on the side of caution and safety, IMO. Edited July 23, 2017 by JulieM 2
katherine the great Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 1 hour ago, rodheadlee said: At 19 i was married and the foreman on a construction site. I carried extra money, truck parts, food and water. Stop coddling our young men. I can't even find one to be an apprentice shipwright. People live longer now and culture is changing. We now know that our brains aren't even finished growing until we are in our 20's so no need to rush into marriage and family responsibilities so young. But that's really beside the main point of this thread. In the circumstances of this particular situation, the parents acted in a way that is outside of what is reasonable and prudent. 1
katherine the great Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Storm Rider said: Regardless of our personal feelings I have yet to meet a perfect parent. I have met those I truly admire as being great parents in challenging situations. What this couple did was a drastic choice, but it worked and they did not have to pay $2500 for the experience of a lifetime. Parenting is hard. It's the hardest job I have ever had for sure because it never ends. If you are describing the "wilderness" experiences, they are usualIy reserved for kids with behavior and drug problems-not kids unsure of their testimony (or else parents with money to burn). A missionary's job is to bring people into the church. If a kid doesn't believe in the church him/herself, its a kind of hypocrisy to go out and persuade other people to join the church. I still see these parent's actions as bizarre and its too soon to say that "it worked." It got the kid on a mission yes (if that was mom's only goal) but he hasn't even seen his parents yet so its too soon to say what the fallout will be as far as a future relationship. Its probably fortunate that this is a son and not a daughter. I don't think most daughters would ever really get over something like that. On a positive note, the grandparents were magnificent. 2
Teancum Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 On 7/21/2017 at 6:01 PM, Duncan said: There is that story going around about this family that took their soon to be missionary son out to Bryce Canyon and he told them he didn't want to go and so they left him there. So he went to a gas station and called his grandparents and the next day I think they came and got him. The Grandpa said just to try a mission and I take it he did and is serving now or was serving. What do you make of it? http://www.ldsliving.com/A-Grandpa-s-Perfect-Response-When-His-Grandson-Said-He-Wouldn-t-Report-to-the-MTC-the-Next-Day/s/85941 This is called child abuse. I don't care if the kid was 18 or 19 or 20. His parents were abusive rigid Pharisaical Mormon parents. Fortunately they are likely rare and the extreme. 4
Jeanne Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: He would have felt the same if they had driven him to the grandparents, or waited for them to pick him up. Leaving him leaves all kinds of potentially dangerous things to happen, not just physical but mentally. Just leaving him..leaving..speaks volumes to me. They could have dropped him off at my Walmart..and he would feel just as bad. After all is said and done, glad that it had a good outcome for his person and safety. But as I have mentioned before...there will come a time when all this is going to hit sky high..testimony or not..active or not..this is a family with some problems. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said: You don't think social pressure exists in the church to put kids on missions? Don't you think the shock of her son making a last minute decision against the group had something to do with the overreaction on the mother's part? Or is this just the babblings of an angry ex mormon who refuses to allow the pivot to the kindly grandparents meme? I'm saying the social pressure against kicking your kid out of the car on a family vacation and leaving him to fend for himself is bound to be far more intense than the social pressure to send him on a mission. Look at the shrill histrionics it has generated in this very thread. If you don't see this you have a very jaundiced view of Mormon culture. Edited July 23, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
DemonsAway Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Maybe the church doesn't deserve negative press from this incident but the parents absolutely do as well as LDS Living. This is a total spin of a bad situation. Just get the family member to agree to go one step further and maybe it will benefit the church, and oh, his family might take him back if he wants anything to do with them. Yeah it was good of the grandparents to come and get him but to publish this and try and spin in it in some church promoting way is horrible, imo. Why aren't they making it a point that parents shouldn't abandon their kids because of their beliefs? Where's the message of “Respect someone's decision”? Sure it turned out okay, but could've easily ended in a very negative way as well. Plus the grandfather or the parents could've easily said, “I respect that decision and that's fine. If somewhere down the road you change your mind, the option to go is still available to you”. I would call the article, “How to coerce someone who's on the fence”, let's be honest, that's what really happened and that's what the message truly is. It also raises an important question, should there be or why isn't there church disciplinary action for the parents? I can't imagine the church condones the parents actions and it does bring negativity to the church. I don't know how there isn't any charges that have been filed. There has to be some type of law against abandoning someone whether they're 18 or not. I would say he's lucky it was in Utah.
Rain Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) On 7/22/2017 at 1:56 PM, Jeanne said: When one is confused about what to do in life..it is the worse time for parents to just say...drop in..or drop out..The worse rule IMO any parent can have is you will do this or you won't live here..been there done that. If my child is legally an adult I can't say he has to do chores and either work, go to school or prepare for a mission or get out? I just have to be ok with him playing video games for months/years as he tries to figure out what to do with his life? ----- The fact that the parents said he had no plan for what to do in life makes me wonder what the rest of the story is. I know my son would tell his story far differently than I would. I don't see this Bryce story as a good parenting story, but before making any judgments I would like to know more. He didn't have money, but did he have a debit card? Was a mission most of the story or just a small part? I honestly have a hard time believing it was as simple as, "I'm not going on a mission." "Ok, we're leaving you". Edited July 23, 2017 by Rain 4
Scott Lloyd Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Rain said: If my child is legally an adult I can't say he has to do chores and either work, go to school or prepare for a mission or get out? I just have to be ok with him playing video games for months/years as he tries to figure out what to do with his life? ----- The fact that the parents said he had no plan for what to do in life makes me wonder what the rest of the story is. I know my son would tell his story far differently than I would. I don't see this Bryce story as a good parenting story, but before making any judgments I would like to know more. He didn't have money, but did he have a debit card? Was a mission most of the story or just a small part? I honestly have a hard time believing or was as simple as, "I'm not going on a mission." "Ok, we're leaving you". Once a child passes the age of majority (18) a parent is under no legal obligation to pay for his food, shelter, clothing or education. Or is my understanding incorrect on that?
JulieM Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Once a child passes the age of majority (18) a parent is under no legal obligation to pay for his food, shelter, clothing or education. Or is my understanding incorrect on that? Maybe no legal obligation, but how about a moral obligation? I don't know of many parents who would abandon a kid of their's right out of high school. Would you? 1
rodheadlee Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, JulieM said: Maybe no legal obligation, but how about a moral obligation? I don't know of many parents who would abandon a kid of their's right out of high school. Would you? The culture I grew up in you were tossed out of the nest at 18 if you were a man/male. The parents encouraged us to be on our own while they watched from afar to see how we would fair.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, JulieM said: Maybe no legal obligation, but how about a moral obligation? I don't know of many parents who would abandon a kid of their's right out of high school. Would you? That's why I said "legal." I've already said I don't condone it, a statement I expected I would have to keep repeating here. My expectation has already come true. I do say there is not a thing wrong with expecting grown children, to the extent of their ability, to help pay their own living and education expenses. Edited July 23, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
Popular Post katherine the great Posted July 23, 2017 Popular Post Posted July 23, 2017 44 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: The culture I grew up in you were tossed out of the nest at 18 if you were a man/male. The parents encouraged us to be on our own while they watched from afar to see how we would fair. I don't see a problem with that as long as the parents adequately prepare the child for that and don't suddenly kick him out on a whim with no warning. 5
JulieM Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: That's why I said "legal." I've already said I don't condone it, a statement I expected I would have to keep repeating here. My expectation has already come true. I do say there is not a thing wrong with expecting grown children, to the extent of their ability, to help pay their own living and education expenses. I agree and I can tell you're not a parent who would do what was done to this young man, Scott. I've felt the love you have for your son who is on his mission. Edited July 23, 2017 by JulieM
Duncan Posted July 24, 2017 Author Posted July 24, 2017 my brother said his MTC flatmate's companion didn't show up, maybe he's stuck up in a canyon somewhere?
Stargazer Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 I read this on Facebook a day or two ago. I wondered how long it was going to take before it showed up here. Almost immediately! I've "abandoned" two adult children so far. The first one kept hanging out with a convicted felon after said felon had stolen from us and damaged two of our automobiles -- and said felon had been taken in by us after his brother with whom he had been staying kicked him out of his home. This was my oldest son, and he never came back to live in the house again. He knocked around for four or five years, homeless or living with friends, until he found a good woman. He straightened himself out, married her, and has two lovely daughters now. They just bought a brand new house. The second one, my youngest, kept making threats (he apparently suffers from paranoid personality disorder), and I had to call the police on him -- I made sure to record his threatening conversation, and there was more than one. He pleaded guilty to domestic violence, and now we have a restraining order against him. Both of these boys were kicked out with virtually the clothes upon their backs, and in practical terms were just as "abandoned" as the young Br. Alabbas. In this case, the first son turned things around, but we don't know what will become of the second. He at least has a steady job now, and seems to have moved out of the Salvation Army shelter and we believe he is now completely self-supporting. He had refused to look for work before. I am not the family that "abandoned" this young man in the park, and given what I have read about the matter, I won't judge them -- for all I know, what they did was the right thing to do. That being said, I thought it was appalling for this story to be publicized. Whether it was the right thing for his parents to do, or not, the story makes for the the worst interpretations possible.
Calm Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) SG, Did you give your sons any warning or was it out of the blue? There is a huge difference between worrying about a dangerous child and just being suddenly disappointed/frustrated with one (remember the parents were apparently clueless there was an issue) and then running out on them. Since the parents had always expected the son to go on a mission, I find it highly unlikely there had been any previous conversations about his responsibilities to take care of himself, etc. Even an experienced adult would have a problem coming up, with a coherent plan when challenged to find one on the spur of the moment. My biggest problem with the whole scenario was the total lack of planning on the parents' part. They were condemning the boy for not having a plan of what to do, but they were willing to act without taking the time to discuss with him his options or what they were thinking of doing from both descriptions. Edited July 24, 2017 by Calm 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 3 hours ago, JulieM said: I agree and I can tell you're not a parent who would do what was done to this young man, Scott. I've felt the love you have for your son who is on his mission. My only real beef here is with Pete Ahlstrom's contention that all the focus should be on the actions of the parents. The loving dedication of the grandfather and the resulting miraculous turnaround in the young man's attitude in the face of a bitter family dispute merit considerable attention. I will say LDS Living and its writer erred in choosing to tell only half the story. Intended or not it makes it look like a whitewash. I think the writer recognizes that now. 1
sunstoned Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 11 hours ago, bluebell said: Did you read why they chose to leave it out? (Not being snarky, honest question). Calm posted it earlier in the thread. Yes I did, but IMO it is totally unacceptable to abandon (yes, that is what they did) a child and drive off just because he made a decision they didn't like. This is a prime example of choosing the church over family. This poor Elder is not done with this experience. He now knows what is important for his parents, and it is not him. 2
bluebell Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 34 minutes ago, sunstoned said: Yes I did, but IMO it is totally unacceptable to abandon (yes, that is what they did) a child and drive off just because he made a decision they didn't like. This is a prime example of choosing the church over family. This poor Elder is not done with this experience. He now knows what is important for his parents, and it is not him. LDS living agreed with you. They found worth in the story of the grandparents. I can understand you disagreeing with that but I'm still not sure how that is "spinning" the story. 1
Maureen Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 11 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: ...But I have to wonder why he was in a frame of mind to listen to the grandparents but not the parents... From what's been reported, it doesn't appear the parents offered their son any words of advice, they just left him there. M. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Maureen said: From what's been reported, it doesn't appear the parents offered their son any words of advice, they just left him there. M. I don't altogether trust what has been reported. I think it must be incomplete at best.
california boy Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) When I first read about this in the thread, I in no way blamed the church for the appalling behavior of these parents. But as I read so many defending the actions or even rationalizing the actions of the parents, it has become obvious that it is a problem with the church that is creating a culture where something so wrong is supported and defended. And many of those defending these parents actions are the ones that are most vigilant in defending the church's positions. It is looking like more of a problem than just one case of bad parents. There is no defense for this kind of behavior of any parent no matter what church they belong to. Edited July 24, 2017 by california boy 4
california boy Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Once a child passes the age of majority (18) a parent is under no legal obligation to pay for his food, shelter, clothing or education. Or is my understanding incorrect on that? Sin, even if legalized by man, is still sin in the eyes of God. – Elder Russell M. Nelson 1
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