Parents leave son in Bryce Canyon-thoughts?

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

...except he chooses this life himself. 

Which makes all the difference in the world. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, ALarson said:

I agree.  No amount of trying to put a positive spin on what these parents did will ever make it right.  I'm amazed at how some are still trying to defend them just because their son wasn't physically harmed (and because he apparently holds no ill will towards them now).  I don't blame the church or church leaders for what these parents did.  They alone are responsible for making a potentially dangerous decision that definitely put their son in harm's way.  

So, when my brother-in-law Gaspaccio turned 17, his father said, "You're on your own now. Move your stuff out and get a job." 

[ALarson]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

So, when my brother-in-law Gaspaccio turned 17, his father said, "You're on your own now. Move your stuff out and get a job." 

Well, I don't know the details or circumstances involved with that, so I have no idea if it was the right thing to do or not.  However, that is not what took place with the parents we're discussing here.

Edited July 26, 2017 by ALarson

[Bernard Gui]

On 7/24/2017 at 7:01 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

I'm not comfortable with an assumption either way. 

Mainly, I find it deplorable that what should be very private family business went viral and is now being bandied about by tongue-clucking  strangers as though it were the stuff of the latest grocery store tabloid. 

Does anyone here know if the family consented to it being made public in the first place? I know the missionary made a video, but was that after the incident had gone viral?

So many traumas that could and should be handled discreetly get blown up in public. Many threads here are devoted to such things. Usually the intent is to shame and embarrass the Church and its leaders. It's become the norm in the strange world in which we live.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

I noticed after viewing the video, something I wasn't aware of before. The missionary said his mother filled out the papers without him knowing and sent them. Is it any wonder that he refused to go, isn't this wrong for her to do? 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Thank you.

And from watching the video, it is clear there was no vindictive sentiment or any intent on his part to punish or vilify his parents. Clearly, his focus was on the change in attitude he had experienced about going on a mission. It was just as you say: He just told his story.

So, assuming the video was the genesis of the social and mass media publicity (and it's still not clear to me that it was) it was someone else who made the choice to pick it up and apply the public shaming to it.

 

To be fair I would have publicly shamed the parents just from watching the video.

Man tells his story:

"My parents beat me and then a kind woman came along and helped me and it changed my life."

People hear and respond:

"Your parents must have been terrible people!"

Man attempts to redirect:

"Look, can we just ignore the parents and focus on the positive?"

People respond rightly:

"No!"

 

I work in child abuse cases. Nine times out of ten the child does not blame the parent. The parent should still be deeply ashamed even if the child does not think it is so. Once you tell a story you cannot control the conclusions people will draw from it.

I am not saying this situation was legally abuse. It probably was not.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I noticed after viewing the video, something I wasn't aware of before. The missionary said his mother filled out the papers without him knowing and sent them. Is it any wonder that he refused to go, isn't this wrong for her to do? 

Yeah, pretty much. It also implies she forged a signature. A bit odd though as hard to send in papers without interviews. Maybe he had the interviews and passed and changed his mind?

[ALarson]

11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

So many traumas that could and should be handled discreetly get blown up in public. Many threads here are devoted to such things. Usually the intent is to shame and embarrass the Church and its leaders.

Which I've seen repeatedly avoided here on this thread (along with most posters outright stating that the parents are the ones responsible here for their actions, not the church or its leaders).  

Edited July 26, 2017 by ALarson

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

So many traumas that could and should be handled discreetly get blown up in public. Many threads here are devoted to such things. Usually the intent is to shame and embarrass the Church and its leaders. It's become the norm in the strange world in which we li.

In most cases I agree but these yahoos decided to put their story out there. Complaining about people discussing it after you publicize it is silly.

[Tacenda]

Just now, The Nehor said:

Yeah, pretty much. It also implies she forged a signature. A bit odd though as hard to send in papers without interviews. Maybe he had the interviews and passed and changed his mind?

My neighbor turned her papers in without her family's knowledge, it stumped me because when my son went we had to be involved with the process, such as take him for medical appointments etc. 

At least on this gal's mother's FB page, she said they were totally surprised when her letter came in the mail. 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

The Woodington page is not private and the video was not restricted, so anybody with a Facebook account can share it.

Probably should have shared a little less.

[ALarson]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I noticed after viewing the video, something I wasn't aware of before. The missionary said his mother filled out the papers without him knowing and sent them. Is it any wonder that he refused to go, isn't this wrong for her to do? 

Wow.  If true, then that was definitely not right.  But I'm also wondering how they'd pull that off?

[Tacenda]

10 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Wow.  If true, then that was definitely not right.  But I'm also wondering how they'd pull that off?

I'll bet she sent his papers in, and then when his call came in he had no choice but to go. Then in Bryce decided to put his foot down maybe. 

My laptop is having trouble viewing the video again, just to verify what I thought I saw and heard. Can you view it? 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Tacenda

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Which I've seen repeatedly avoided here on this thread (along with most posters outright stating that the parents are the ones responsible here for their actions, not the church or its leaders).  

Until not everyone reacted with a suitably high degree of vindictiveness and seething rage. Then some of the same posters began to blame the Church.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Until not everyone reacted with suitable degree of seething rage. Then some of the same posters began to blame the Church.

CFR, is it on this thread or do you mean elsewhere in bloggersphere? 

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

CFR, is it on this thread or do you mean elsewhere in bloggersphere? 

This thread. California Boy's post a few pages ago. I'm not going to link to it. You can hunt it up if you like. Or not.

[ALarson]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Until not everyone reacted with a suitably high degree of vindictiveness and seething rage.

Against the parents?  If so, "vindictiveness" and "seething rage" is an exaggeration, IMO.  I agree that what the parents did was wrong, but I'm not ready to label them bad parents or seek revenge towards them or seethe with rage.

Then some of the same posters began to blame the Church.

I must have missed that (or it was very brief as most did not do this from what I read on this thread).  

But is that why you became so defensive here?  You believe the church is under attack?

Edited July 26, 2017 by ALarson

[Scott Lloyd]

36 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I noticed after viewing the video, something I wasn't aware of before. The missionary said his mother filled out the papers without him knowing and sent them. Is it any wonder that he refused to go, isn't this wrong for her to do? 

I just watched the video again. He said his parents filled out his papers for him because he had no desire to serve, but he didn't say they sent them in without his knowledge

He also said he was a "rebellious teenager" and that he needed to grow up.

 

[Thinking]

38 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I noticed after viewing the video, something I wasn't aware of before. The missionary said his mother filled out the papers without him knowing and sent them. Is it any wonder that he refused to go, isn't this wrong for her to do? 

He did not say that he didn't know. He said they filled them out. He would still have had to have a physical, bishop's interview...

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Against the parents?  If so, "vindictiveness" and "seething rage" is an exaggeration, IMO.  I think what they did was wrong, but I'm not ready to label them bad parents, etc.

 

Of course it's an exaggeration. It's called hyperbole. It's a rhetorical device. When your dad tells you, "I've told you a thousand times to turn off the bathroom light when you come out," you and he both know he hasn't done it a thousand times. You both recognize he is exaggerating for effect. That's what hyperbole is.

 

Quote

 

I must have missed that (or it was very brief as most did not do this from what I read on this thread).  

But is that why you became so defensive here?  You believe the church is under attack?

 

I defend when I believe I'm under attack.

[ALarson]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I just watched the video again. He said his parents filled out his papers for him because he had no desire to serve, but he didn't say they sent them in without his knowledge

He also said he was a "rebellious teenager" and that he needed to grow up.

 

It will be interesting to see how his mission goes for him.  Of course, we may never know as hopefully this family has learned their lesson and will stay out of the limelight 

And, I do hope everything works out well for all of them.

[Scott Lloyd]

10 minutes ago, Thinking said:

He did not say that he didn't know. He said they filled them out. He would still have had to have a physical, bishop's interview...

Thanks for the corrobration.

I wonder where Tacenda got the idea it was without his knowledge. Perhaps she has no family experience with missionaries.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[ALarson]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

Of course it's an exaggeration. It's called hyperbole. It's a rhetorical device. When your dad tells you, "I've told you a thousand times to turn off the bathroom light when you come out," you and he both know he hasn't done it a thousand times. You both recognize he is exaggerating for effect. That's what hyperbole is.

 

I defend when I believe I'm under attack.

Someone attacked you personally here?  Why?  

(And, yes I knew what you were doing with using hyperbole....just teasing you a bit....)

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, ALarson said:

It will be interesting to see how his mission goes for him.  Of course, we may never know as hopefully this family has learned their lesson and will stay out of the limelight 

And, I do hope everything works out well for all of them.

I'm thrilled about the change that has already occurred with him.

Apparently, I'm one of few, (if not the only one) on this thread who feels that way.

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[Tacenda]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Thanks for the corrobration.

They filled them out and sent them and he still did not want to go. Talk about coercion. I wonder what my son would have done had I done all of that? We'll never know, but he about had a nervous breakdown when leaders pressured him unceasingly. He cried after pounding the wall one night, if I had been a party to all that I just don't know how bad it could have turned out. This son didn't end up going, I tend to blame it on the pressure. 

But will agree, the missionary does seem to be doing great.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Tacenda