$1.5Mn Charity Donation To... A War Museum In America?

[canard78]

If you had $1.5mn to give to a good cause would you:

 

a) Buy 230,000 school kits to contribute towards over 9,000,000 children in Africa being brought out of the enslavement of illiteracy?

b) Fund water purification kits for 600,000 Philippines typhoon survivors to avoid further deaths from cholera?

c) Make a PR inducing contribution to the Philadelphia Museum of the American Revolution?

 

In case you need a clue, Matthew 25:31-46 might be a good place to start.

 

Is this a good use of funds? Is this the best way to fulfill the mandate "inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren...?"

 

The question "...when saw we thee a museum raising millions to promote American history and culture?" doesn't seem to appear in the reference.

 

This isn't simply me trying to take a swipe at the church. I also don't want to directly discuss the merits of the first two. There are starving, thirsty, illiterate children and families all over the world. 

 

It's a genuine question and I concern I've been wrestling with. Are these the sorts of projects the church should be supporting? You can only spend a dollar once. Given it can only spent once, is a war museum the most beneficial charitable use for the funds?

 

I don't know whether it has been taken from tithing or other activities. Does it matter? If it is money available to donate to a charity, is this a good choice?

Edited April 26, 2014 by canard78

[Storm Rider]

God in Heaven give me patience.  How much money do you spend on charity? What kinds of charities? Should museums be considered a charitable donation for anyone? Should charitable donations be limited to strictly feeding the poor?  Maybe donations should be limited to whatever directly benefits the poor?  How do we define benefit and who should decide such?

 

As someone who has managed pension fund investments for over 30 years I have a rather in-depth understanding of wealth, wealth management and wealth creation. These types of incessant whining about what the Church does WITHOUT any understanding of what capital budget or investment group is doing the investing wears thin rather quickly.  If it is an investment arm of the Church i.e. funds that do not come directly from tithes, then frankly it is none of your business or anyone else's business what the investment is.  You are not privy to the investment guidelines or objectives of the entity involved.  As such, until you or anyone else is knowledgeable of those standards and guidelines, you are ignorant and should stop talking.  

 

It is admirable to limit the discussion to a "war museum" because obviously a war museum can only be a celebration of killing and the desecration of the human family. We should begin by taking down the Holocaust museum in D.C. because it is a "war museum" also.  In fact, let's take down all commemorations of wars throughout the world beginning with the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and every other Arch in the world.

 

I just find so much this whining to be self-serving. Once you have begun to sell all that you have and given it the poor i.e. practice what you preach, then there would be something to talk about.  If you haven't done that, then why would your standard have any value in judging the Church or any other investment group?  Aren't you just as responsible as every church organization in the world for the manner in which you spend your funds?  Are individuals free to ignore those same biblical verses you mentioned?  

 

What did Christ mean when he said the poor will always be with you?  

 

You have your soap box and I guess I have mine.  

Edited April 27, 2014 by Storm Rider

[canard78]

God in Heaven give me patience. How much money do you spend on charity? What kind of charities? Should any museum be considered a charitable donation? Should charitable donations be limited to feeding the poor? May donations should be limited strictly to whatever directly benefits the poor? How do we define benefit and who should decide?

As someone who has managed pension fund investments for over 30 years I have a rather in-depth understanding of wealth, wealth management and wealth creation. These types of incessant whining about what the Church does WITHOUT any understanding of what group is doing the investing wears thin rather quickly. If it is an investment arm of the Church i.e. funds that do not come directly from tithes, then frankly it is none of your or anyone else's business what the investment is. You are not privy to the investment guidelines or objectives of the entity. As such, until you are knowledgeable of those standards, you are ignorant and should stop talking.

It admirable to limit the discussion to a "war museum" because obviously a war museum is a celebration of killing and the desecration of the human family. Let's first begin by taking down the Holocaust museum in D.C. because it is a "war museum" also. In fact, let's take down all commemorations of wars throughout the world beginning with the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and every other Arch in the world.

I just find so much this whining to be self-serving. Once you have begun to sell all that you have and given it the poor i.e. practice what you preach, then why would your standard have any value in judging others? Aren't you just as responsible as every church organization? Are individuals free to ignore those same biblical verses?

What did Christ mean when he said the poor will always be with you?

You have your soap box and I guess I have mine.

First, can you show me where it says an investment arm made the contribution?

The articles says:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints presented a $1.5 million gift on Thursday to the Museum of the American Revolution.

It was presented by the FamilySearch CEO and goes on to talk further about FamilySearch but it doesn't say FamilySearch funded it. If it did fund it then I'd be interested to understand how FamilySearch, a free-to-use website, raises funds? Does it sell its database to other websites? Are there subscription services? I've not noticed any revenue stream opportunities.

You've talked confidently about the investment value of contributions like this. Could you expand on that for those of us who are apparently financially illiterate.

I wasn't making an attack on the concept of museums per se. I was asking whether a "spare" $1.5mn is best put towards this kind of thing. If it's spurced by tithing dollars then I would think not. If it's from FamilySearch and they are a private revenue generating company that are in no way reliant on tithing in any form at all, then they can do what they like. I would still suggest that if it is solely a good cause donation then other causes would have been better. If instead this is marketing/partnership investment then maybe the church shouldn't claim credit for the donation.

Regarding selling all and giving to the poor. Have you? No? Then don't use that. I give as much as I can to good causes. Tithing has always been one of them. Like I pointed out in the OP, we can all only spend a dollar (or pound) once.

And finally, when you say the poor will always be among us that sounds like a shrug to absolve yourself of responsibility to do anything about it. I don't think Jesus was implying: "so don't bother with them."

[Calm]

Apparently family search will be running a display. Ifso, I suspect it will have todo with genealogy and looking up relatives you had in the war. I would consider that a worthwhile contribute to educating people about genealogy and getting them interested in it if I am fright.

[canard78]

Apparently family search will be running a display. Ifso, I suspect it will have todo with genealogy and looking up relatives you had in the war. I would consider that a worthwhile contribute to educating people about genealogy and getting them interested in it if I am fright.

So they're investing $1.5mn in order to get a place in the museum? Seems a hefty price-tag.

I suppose we can classify this as marketing funds rather than charitable giving. It's not really presented that way in the coverage.

[Bikeemikey]

Is this in the same city the church is developing its high rise apartment project?

Might be in parallel with that and an attempt to gain wider recognition in the community as well?

[rodheadlee]

Apparently family search will be running a display. Ifso, I suspect it will have todo with genealogy and looking up relatives you had in the war. I would consider that a worthwhile contribute to educating people about genealogy and getting them interested in it if I am fright.

Not to mention employing old cripple people like me or perhaps even veterans, returning warriors who need a job.

[CV75]

is this a good choice?

I think so, considering the role the American Revolution had in the Restoration, as understood from the Book of Mormon.

[Kenngo1969]

Apparently family search will be running a display. Ifso, I suspect it will have todo with genealogy and looking up relatives you had in the war. I would consider that a worthwhile contribute to educating people about genealogy and getting them interested in it if I am fright.

Cal, don'tcha know, that doesn't have anything to do with the Four-Fold Mission of The Church, such as redeeming the dead.  There's no potential to "turn the hearts of the children to the fathers" and get them interested in identifying their ancestors so that those ancestors can have ordinances performed on their behalf, and it doesn't have anything to do with another prong of that Four-Fold Mission, such as "proclaiming the Gospel."

 

Silly Cal!

[David T]

Likely this was part of an arrangement that allowed for the clearing of the path to build the Temple in Philadelphia.

[cdowis]

Canard,

 

In your opinion, should the church build and support universities, a cultural center, church office buildings?

 

Finally you strain your credibility to imply the possibility that tithing was used in this project.  Can we assume that you also think the mall used tithing money as well.

[halconero]

Coming from an anthropological perspective, more money to charity =/= better results.

[Tacenda]

First, can you show me where it says an investment arm made the contribution?

The articles says:

It was presented by the FamilySearch CEO and goes on to talk further about FamilySearch but it doesn't say FamilySearch funded it. If it did fund it then I'd be interested to understand how FamilySearch, a free-to-use website, raises funds? Does it sell its database to other websites? Are there subscription services? I've not noticed any revenue stream opportunities.

You've talked confidently about the investment value of contributions like this. Could you expand on that for those of us who are apparently financially illiterate.

I wasn't making an attack on the concept of museums per se. I was asking whether a "spare" $1.5mn is best put towards this kind of thing. If it's spurced by tithing dollars then I would think not. If it's from FamilySearch and they are a private revenue generating company that are in no way reliant on tithing in any form at all, then they can do what they like. I would still suggest that if it is solely a good cause donation then other causes would have been better. If instead this is marketing/partnership investment then maybe the church shouldn't claim credit for the donation.

Regarding selling all and giving to the poor. Have you? No? Then don't use that. I give as much as I can to good causes. Tithing has always been one of them. Like I pointed out in the OP, we can all only spend a dollar (or pound) once.

And finally, when you say the poor will always be among us that sounds like a shrug to absolve yourself of responsibility to do anything about it. I don't think Jesus was implying: "so don't bother with them."

The members help build a corporation which is the church, in so many other ways besides paying tithing. With the push for indexing in all the wards and stakes not too long ago, it helps the "for profit" arm of the church, Ancestry.com. Nothing new that members give service and monies to help the church put money into projects like these, if only it was something Christ would want.

[Storm Rider]

First, can you show me where it says an investment arm made the contribution?

The articles says:

It was presented by the FamilySearch CEO and goes on to talk further about FamilySearch but it doesn't say FamilySearch funded it. If it did fund it then I'd be interested to understand how FamilySearch, a free-to-use website, raises funds? Does it sell its database to other websites? Are there subscription services? I've not noticed any revenue stream opportunities.

You've talked confidently about the investment value of contributions like this. Could you expand on that for those of us who are apparently financially illiterate.

I wasn't making an attack on the concept of museums per se. I was asking whether a "spare" $1.5mn is best put towards this kind of thing. If it's spurced by tithing dollars then I would think not. If it's from FamilySearch and they are a private revenue generating company that are in no way reliant on tithing in any form at all, then they can do what they like. I would still suggest that if it is solely a good cause donation then other causes would have been better. If instead this is marketing/partnership investment then maybe the church shouldn't claim credit for the donation.

Regarding selling all and giving to the poor. Have you? No? Then don't use that. I give as much as I can to good causes. Tithing has always been one of them. Like I pointed out in the OP, we can all only spend a dollar (or pound) once.

And finally, when you say the poor will always be among us that sounds like a shrug to absolve yourself of responsibility to do anything about it. I don't think Jesus was implying: "so don't bother with them."

 

Strange that it was an executive of FamilySearch and it is even more strange that the article said the Church did it.  What it did not do is say where the funds came from.  The Church has purely investment groups - i.e. they manage funds that are not from tithes and manage for profits - their risk profile is different.  The Church also has investment groups that manage tithes - the groups are separate and do not overlap.

 

No; I did not say that, Jesus said that.  What do you think he meant?  He said this after Judas complained about the woman wasting expensive oils by anointing Jesus. Judas felt it would have been better to sell the oil and give the funds to the poor.  This would seem to apply perfectly to the topic. Strange that Jesus felt it was entirely appropriate NOT to sell the oils and give the proceeds to the poor.  Why?

 

No again, investments do not give once; they keep on giving that is the very definition of investments.  Groups investment strictly for profit and also for social reasons. 

[Storm Rider]

The members help build a corporation which is the church, in so many other ways besides paying tithing. With the push for indexing in all the wards and stakes not too long ago, it helps the "for profit" arm of the church, Ancestry.com. Nothing new that members give service and monies to help the church put money into projects like these, if only it was something Christ would want.

 

Who says what Christ would want?  Who gets to decide?  What would Jesus want and why?  Judas wanted to sell things and give to the poor and was rebuked by Christ; why?  

[thesometimesaint]

If you had $1.5mn to give to a good cause would you:

 

a) Buy 230,000 school kits to contribute towards over 9,000,000 children in Africa being brought out of the enslavement of illiteracy?

b) Fund water purification kits for 600,000 Philippines typhoon survivors to avoid further deaths from cholera?

c) Make a PR inducing contribution to the Philadelphia Museum of the American Revolution?

 

In case you need a clue, Matthew 25:31-46 might be a good place to start.

 

Is this a good use of funds? Is this the best way to fulfill the mandate "inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren...?"

 

The question "...when saw we thee a museum raising millions to promote American history and culture?" doesn't seem to appear in the reference.

 

This isn't simply me trying to take a swipe at the church. I also don't want to directly discuss the merits of the first two. There are starving, thirsty, illiterate children and families all over the world. 

 

It's a genuine question and I concern I've been wrestling with. Are these the sorts of projects the church should be supporting? You can only spend a dollar once. Given it can only spent once, is a war museum the most beneficial charitable use for the funds?

 

I don't know whether it has been taken from tithing or other activities. Does it matter? If it is money available to donate to a charity, is this a good choice?

 

Let me tell you how to spend your money.

[omni]

Canard,

 

Stop talking.  Stop asking questions.  Re-insert your head in the sand.  Ahhh, much better now...

[Tacenda]

Who says what Christ would want? Who gets to decide? What would Jesus want and why? Judas wanted to sell things and give to the poor and was rebuked by Christ; why?

Because Judas had alterior motives than to give money to the poor. But I guess you may compare gripes about how the church spends money to Judas riling up the people against Jesus. But I don't believe the church is Jesus.

[Mystery Meat]

The members help build a corporation which is the church, in so many other ways besides paying tithing. With the push for indexing in all the wards and stakes not too long ago, it helps the "for profit" arm of the church, Ancestry.com. Nothing new that members give service and monies to help the church put money into projects like these, if only it was something Christ would want.

 

I was not aware that the Church bought Ancestry.com...

[Tacenda]

I was not aware that the Church bought Ancestry.com...

Yup, or started it, not sure. ETA: I may be wrong, I think they just joined forces with them. I should do my research better. Edited April 26, 2014 by Tacenda

[David T]

Yup, or started it, not sure. ETA: I may be wrong, I think they just joined forces with them. I should do my research better.

 

They cut a deal with them, which will be allowing all members to have full access to their subscriptions at no extra charge in the extremely near future. They are separate entities, just partnered.

[Senator]

Canard

 

There really is little use in raising objections to the church's uses of money.  If you really have a problem with it, then simply quit contributing.  I know that has ramifications and is easier said than done.

[Tacenda]

They cut a deal with them, which will be allowing all members to have full access to their subscriptions at no extra charge in the extremely near future. They are separate entities, just partnered.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/03/a-call-for-indexers-worldwide  Hopefully they do, because thousands of volunteers have given up a lot, be it time and/or money for it.  My MIL has worked with the Record Extraction program in the church for the majority of her life.  She spent hours and hours, and paid to go to England to pull old records from places.  She and a friend brought home suitcases full of it. 

[David T]

Tacenda, indexing is through Family Search. The results of indexing are on FamilySearch for everyone for free. Always has been that way. Family Search is run by the Church. Ancestry.com is not, and is something different.

Edited April 26, 2014 by David T

[The Nehor]

More people hard at work telling the Lord how to spend His money.

 

Everyone is willing to serve God as long as it is in an advisory capacity.