Perfectionism and works

[MustardSeed]

I’d like to share some personal thoughts today. I go through waves of feeling spiritually connected and spiritually disconnected. Right now I am spiritually disconnected, mostly because I’ve been traveling a lot and also because I don’t have a calling. 
Or at least that’s what I think. Which is interesting because as I type, I’m linking that assessment to the topic that I wanted to talk about. (wow.)

I grew up in an environment that was supported by church and family that suggested that love is connected to accomplishment, service, and work.  That is ingrained in me and imprinted deeply.

Being in my 50s now, I noticed the church shifting to a place that I could’ve really used a long time ago. More attempts for a relationship with the savior,  less focus on “ doing” all the things.

I did all the things. All of them. I prayed daily, went to all my seminary classes, always attended church, wore dresses on Sunday, never broke. The sabbath never drank never had sex never broke rules without tremendous guilt. I volunteered. Paid all my tithing.

I did all of these things and more because I wanted to go to the celestial kingdom and nothing less was good enough. The amount of guilt carried around for my minor flaws is mind blowing to me today.

So here is what I wanted to share. I am not a quotes girl- as a therapist, I find them shallow and even at times insulting and mostly innacurate anyway lol- but some things clicked for me as I read the following: 

“Perfection is the defense mechanism for children who have had to work hard.”

 

as a therapist, I understand that our defense mechanisms help to keep us “safe” when we are children. But they do not serve us in adulthood- they harm. 
 

So understanding that in my childhood, I was a perfectionist, I examine the messaging I received (whether it was intentional or not) that my acceptability was centered on what I was doing. Not what I was.

I love the new focus of the church- a personal relationship with a savior and less focus on petty rules and harsh consequences. But for me, it comes late. 
The church does not feel like home to me anymore because in spite of all of my efforts, I fall terribly short of the ideal. In my mind, the ideal is the only reward. Period everything else is the consolation prize for “free agency“ (Que the game show ‘wa wa waaaaaaa’

I hope to be the first to play the new hymn as a special musical number Amazing Grace in Sacrament meeting. It is deeply meaningful to me because it represents something that could save me from myself. I’m nowhere near feeling safe with it. But wouldn’t it be grand if I could reverse years of indoctrination. 
 

I know probably most of you have not had the same experience. Sometimes I wonder if we even attended the same church in the 70s and early 80s. But this was my experience.  And I struggle. 
 

 

Edited June 20, 2024 by MustardSeed

[Senator]

From what you expressed, it sounds like we went to the exact same church!
 

What you said resonated with me greatly...

[CV75]

48 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I’d like to share some personal thoughts today. I go through waves of feeling spiritually connected and spiritually disconnected. Right now I am spiritually disconnected, mostly because I’ve been traveling a lot and also because I don’t have a calling. 
Or at least that’s what I think. Which is interesting because as I type, I’m linking that assessment to the topic that I wanted to talk about. (wow.)

I grew up in an environment that was supported by church and family that suggested that love is connected to accomplishment, service, and work.  That is ingrained in me and imprinted deeply.

Being in my 50s now, I noticed the church shifting to a place that I could’ve really used a long time ago. More attempts for a relationship with the savior,  less focus on “ doing” all the things.

I did all the things. All of them. I prayed daily, went to all my seminary classes, always attended church, wore dresses on Sunday, never broke. The sabbath never drank never had sex never broke rules without tremendous guilt. I volunteered. Paid all my tithing.

I did all of these things and more because I wanted to go to the celestial kingdom and nothing less was good enough. The amount of guilt carried around for my minor flaws is mind blowing to me today.

So here is what I wanted to share. I am not a quotes girl- as a therapist, I find them shallow and even at times insulting and mostly innacurate anyway lol- but some things clicked for me as I read the following: 

“Perfection is the defense mechanism for children who have had to work hard.”

 

as a therapist, I understand that our defense mechanisms help to keep us “safe” when we are children. But they do not serve us in adulthood- they harm. 
 

So understanding that in my childhood, I was a perfectionist, I examine the messaging I received (whether it was intentional or not) that my acceptability was centered on what I was doing. Not what I was.

I love the new focus of the church- a personal relationship with a savior and less focus on petty rules and harsh consequences. But for me, it comes late. 
The church does not feel like home to me anymore because in spite of all of my efforts, I fall terribly short of the ideal. In my mind, the ideal is the only reward. Period everything else is the consolation prize for “free agency“ (Que the game show ‘wa wa waaaaaaa’

I hope to be the first to play the new hymn as a special musical number Amazing Grace in Sacrament meeting. It is deeply meaningful to me because it represents something that could save me from myself. I’m nowhere near feeling safe with it. But wouldn’t it be grand if I could reverse years of indoctrination. 
 

I know probably most of you have not had the same experience. Sometimes I wonder if we even attended the same church in the 70s and early 80s. But this was my experience.  And I struggle. 
 

 

I am not a therapist by any means, so for what it's worth: A couple of things struck me as I read your post. One is that you recognize your deeply ingrained perfectionism. At the same time, you have hope in the gospel message as presented in the hymn and joy in the prospect of being free from perfectionism. I think the tension between them creates the struggle. But it seems to me you are on the right track! Music is one way of connecting with the Lord for He is right there in the music is some fashion..

He is also embedded in other the words of scripture, sacrament prayers, any prayers, priesthood blessings, ordinances, testimonies, talks, temple script, etc., His creations, and in the unspoken words of service, serendipity and coincidence. He is not that far away from us; we just need to find and use His media. (Alma 30:44, "...The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."

When you say, “Perfection is the defense mechanism for children who have had to work hard,” it sounds like “children who were  made to work hard under threats for failing.” Willingness (or “wanting” without minding the risk of failure) and striving (or “working” without minding the risk of failure) seem to be words the Lord uses in guiding us in the focus of our diligence.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/triple-index/willing?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/triple-index/strive?lang=eng

There is no such index for “work” or “want.”

[2BizE]

I understand your struggle Mustard Seed. Many/most members have been shaped into rule followers. When we cannot be exactly obedient to the church teaching (Christ’s teachings are different from the church’s teachings) we feel guilt and shame. It was pressured into us during those growing years in the 70s and 80s. A similar tactic is used today with the “covenant path”.  It is meant to enforce fear and shame of not being with loved ones in the future if not following the “covenant path”. (Insert RMN talk from conference a few years ago).  
And in this life journey, sometimes one pauses to reflect on the past and look to the future and realizes the path they are on is not the path they want to be on….not the path to happiness but rather only a path to conformity…

[Maestrophil]

I am sorry you are feeling this way.  

I sometimes feel less than too because I am not the picture perfect member due to life experiences.

My change came when I opened my mind and heart to really realizing what the Atonement does for us.  As soon as that really clicked for me and I worked to accept it, I went from feeling like I was walking on a tightrope above the Grand Canyon to walking a narrow bridge with a safety net under it.  Much less pressure.  Don;t know if that makes sense, but Jesus really does give us that safety and protection from our imperfections.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I’d like to share some personal thoughts today. I go through waves of feeling spiritually connected and spiritually disconnected. Right now I am spiritually disconnected, mostly because I’ve been traveling a lot and also because I don’t have a calling. 
Or at least that’s what I think. Which is interesting because as I type, I’m linking that assessment to the topic that I wanted to talk about. (wow.)

I grew up in an environment that was supported by church and family that suggested that love is connected to accomplishment, service, and work.  That is ingrained in me and imprinted deeply.

Being in my 50s now, I noticed the church shifting to a place that I could’ve really used a long time ago. More attempts for a relationship with the savior,  less focus on “ doing” all the things.

I did all the things. All of them. I prayed daily, went to all my seminary classes, always attended church, wore dresses on Sunday, never broke. The sabbath never drank never had sex never broke rules without tremendous guilt. I volunteered. Paid all my tithing.

I did all of these things and more because I wanted to go to the celestial kingdom and nothing less was good enough. The amount of guilt carried around for my minor flaws is mind blowing to me today.

So here is what I wanted to share. I am not a quotes girl- as a therapist, I find them shallow and even at times insulting and mostly innacurate anyway lol- but some things clicked for me as I read the following: 

“Perfection is the defense mechanism for children who have had to work hard.”

 

as a therapist, I understand that our defense mechanisms help to keep us “safe” when we are children. But they do not serve us in adulthood- they harm. 
 

So understanding that in my childhood, I was a perfectionist, I examine the messaging I received (whether it was intentional or not) that my acceptability was centered on what I was doing. Not what I was.

I love the new focus of the church- a personal relationship with a savior and less focus on petty rules and harsh consequences. But for me, it comes late. 
The church does not feel like home to me anymore because in spite of all of my efforts, I fall terribly short of the ideal. In my mind, the ideal is the only reward. Period everything else is the consolation prize for “free agency“ (Que the game show ‘wa wa waaaaaaa’

I hope to be the first to play the new hymn as a special musical number Amazing Grace in Sacrament meeting. It is deeply meaningful to me because it represents something that could save me from myself. I’m nowhere near feeling safe with it. But wouldn’t it be grand if I could reverse years of indoctrination. 
 

I know probably most of you have not had the same experience. Sometimes I wonder if we even attended the same church in the 70s and early 80s. But this was my experience.  And I struggle. 
 

 

You're not alone in the least with checking all the boxes to reach the CK! 🤗

I look forward to Amazing Grace sung in Sac Mtg too, and you can play it? How I wish I was talented like that. I remember visiting my mom in an Assisted Living place and each time I'd visit, a wonderful woman named Renee with I believe something called Picks disease would greet everyone at the door with the song "Amazing Grace". She couldn't remember all of it but sung some of it in the most beautiful way that the spirit shown through her, and that would make me and others that would visit sing with her.

I hope you find all you are looking for as far as the church goes, and maybe we will all come to the point of thinking and doing for ourselves in our spiritual walk.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

She couldn't remember all of it but sung some of it in the most beautiful way that the spirit shown through her, and that would make me and others that would visit sing with her.

That is a precious image (not using precious in a sarcastic way for those who don’t know me well enough yet  ).

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

That is a precious image (not using precious in a sarcastic way for those who don’t know me well enough yet  ).

It was the most precious thing in the world! Thanks for understanding that. I want to find a picture of her now, I think I have one.

[LoudmouthMormon]

I recognize everything in your post, @MustardSeed.  I've heard from saints my whole life, burdened down by feelings of not having done "enough".  I've heard from former members who "just couldn't take the demands" any more and left. 

Maybe it's because I was raised by a guy who detested holier-than-thou folks, who believed we're all sinners.  Maybe I had a rockstar bishop when I brought myself in to sit on the "hot seat" and confess things.  Whatever it was, I somehow escaped this anxiety-drenched perfectionism bug.  But I feel for ya.  

If you need to hear it from someone else today, you matter. 

Edited June 20, 2024 by LoudmouthMormon

[Vanguard]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I’d like to share some personal thoughts today. I go through waves of feeling spiritually connected and spiritually disconnected. Right now I am spiritually disconnected, mostly because I’ve been traveling a lot and also because I don’t have a calling. 
Or at least that’s what I think. Which is interesting because as I type, I’m linking that assessment to the topic that I wanted to talk about. (wow.)

I grew up in an environment that was supported by church and family that suggested that love is connected to accomplishment, service, and work.  That is ingrained in me and imprinted deeply.

Being in my 50s now, I noticed the church shifting to a place that I could’ve really used a long time ago. More attempts for a relationship with the savior,  less focus on “ doing” all the things.

I did all the things. All of them. I prayed daily, went to all my seminary classes, always attended church, wore dresses on Sunday, never broke. The sabbath never drank never had sex never broke rules without tremendous guilt. I volunteered. Paid all my tithing.

I did all of these things and more because I wanted to go to the celestial kingdom and nothing less was good enough. The amount of guilt carried around for my minor flaws is mind blowing to me today.

So here is what I wanted to share. I am not a quotes girl- as a therapist, I find them shallow and even at times insulting and mostly innacurate anyway lol- but some things clicked for me as I read the following: 

“Perfection is the defense mechanism for children who have had to work hard.”

 

as a therapist, I understand that our defense mechanisms help to keep us “safe” when we are children. But they do not serve us in adulthood- they harm. 
 

So understanding that in my childhood, I was a perfectionist, I examine the messaging I received (whether it was intentional or not) that my acceptability was centered on what I was doing. Not what I was.

I love the new focus of the church- a personal relationship with a savior and less focus on petty rules and harsh consequences. But for me, it comes late. 
The church does not feel like home to me anymore because in spite of all of my efforts, I fall terribly short of the ideal. In my mind, the ideal is the only reward. Period everything else is the consolation prize for “free agency“ (Que the game show ‘wa wa waaaaaaa’

I hope to be the first to play the new hymn as a special musical number Amazing Grace in Sacrament meeting. It is deeply meaningful to me because it represents something that could save me from myself. I’m nowhere near feeling safe with it. But wouldn’t it be grand if I could reverse years of indoctrination. 
 

I know probably most of you have not had the same experience. Sometimes I wonder if we even attended the same church in the 70s and early 80s. But this was my experience.  And I struggle. 
 

 

I see these early signs of 'perfection quest' in my high-powered/functioning RM daughter (she completed in Jan). She has admitted to me that she becomes very uncomfortable if she doesn't have something constructive planned at virtually every moment of the day. I have told her frequently it is important to feel 'comfortable in her own skin' when she has nothing to do. I then remind her that I have been no example of this balance until more recently. She understands this notion conceptually but her emotional world still drives her too much toward this perfectionism. I hope she is able to more successfully navigate this as she moves forward in life. Vocation, marriage, children, callings, and the like will likely beat any mental/emotional health right out of her if she doesn't...

Edited June 20, 2024 by Vanguard

[blackstrap]

And to think this all started because of an interpretation of Matt  5: 48 . 

[CV75]

46 minutes ago, blackstrap said:

And to think this all started because of an interpretation of Matt  5: 48 . 

A quick Google on "perfectionism" (which is a personality trait, so nature and nurture fit in; religiosity would be an integrated factor) shows that about 30% of the general population has perfectionist traits. 80% of gifted people have them. These are pretty high proportions in my opinion, and I suppose this underlying propensity may contribute to Religious Trauma Syndrome, both for the persons with trauma the perpetrators of the trauma.

However, it may not have always ben this way: Analyses in the US, Canada, and UK found that perfectionism of various kinds (self-oriented, socially prescribed, and other-oriented) has been increasing over time between the late 1980s and 2016. So, maybe it started with a fulfillment of Matthew 16:3! Perhaps perfectionism is associated with overall human accomplishment over the centuries, where heightened performance gets higher priority with each generation. Heavy digital engagement would certainly contribute to this in our age. Competitiveness for material excellence also.

 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

I see these early signs 'perfection quest' in my high-powered/functioning RM daughter (she completed in Jan). She has admitted to me that she becomes very uncomfortable if she doesn't have something constructive planned at virtually every moment of the day. I have told her frequently it is important to feel 'comfortable in her own skin' when she has nothing to do. I then remind her that I have been no example of this balance until more recently. She understands this notion conceptually but her emotional world still drives her too much toward this perfectionism. I hope she is able to more successfully navigate this as she moves forward in life. Vocation, marriage, children, callings, and the like will likely beat any mental/emotional health right out of her if she doesn't...

I wonder if this has something to do with her mission. My missionary son had a planner and he was so use to have plans to do every day that he still carried it around afterwards for a couple of weeks out of habit I guess.

[Vanguard]

Just now, Tacenda said:

I wonder if this has something to do with her mission. My missionary son had a planner and he was so use to have plans to do every day that he still carried it around afterwards for a couple of weeks out of habit I guess.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mission contributed though my daughter was very much like this in high school too. To her credit, she has accomplished quite a bit for a young lady of 21. I very much admire her burgeoning accomplishments. The issue for me, however, is what the individual concludes about themself regards to their relations with others and their God as a result of these successful efforts and outcomes.

[Rain]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I’d like to share some personal thoughts today. I go through waves of feeling spiritually connected and spiritually disconnected. Right now I am spiritually disconnected, mostly because I’ve been traveling a lot and also because I don’t have a calling. 
Or at least that’s what I think. Which is interesting because as I type, I’m linking that assessment to the topic that I wanted to talk about. (wow.)

I grew up in an environment that was supported by church and family that suggested that love is connected to accomplishment, service, and work.  That is ingrained in me and imprinted deeply.

Being in my 50s now, I noticed the church shifting to a place that I could’ve really used a long time ago. More attempts for a relationship with the savior,  less focus on “ doing” all the things.

I did all the things. All of them. I prayed daily, went to all my seminary classes, always attended church, wore dresses on Sunday, never broke. The sabbath never drank never had sex never broke rules without tremendous guilt. I volunteered. Paid all my tithing.

I did all of these things and more because I wanted to go to the celestial kingdom and nothing less was good enough. The amount of guilt carried around for my minor flaws is mind blowing to me today.

So here is what I wanted to share. I am not a quotes girl- as a therapist, I find them shallow and even at times insulting and mostly innacurate anyway lol- but some things clicked for me as I read the following: 

“Perfection is the defense mechanism for children who have had to work hard.”

 

as a therapist, I understand that our defense mechanisms help to keep us “safe” when we are children. But they do not serve us in adulthood- they harm. 
 

So understanding that in my childhood, I was a perfectionist, I examine the messaging I received (whether it was intentional or not) that my acceptability was centered on what I was doing. Not what I was.

 

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I love the new focus of the church- a personal relationship with a savior and less focus on petty rules and harsh consequences. But for me, it comes late. 
The church does not feel like home to me anymore because in spite of all of my efforts, I fall terribly short of the ideal. In my mind, the ideal is the only reward. Period everything else is the consolation prize for “free agency“ (Que the game show ‘wa wa waaaaaaa’

I hope to be the first to play the new hymn as a special musical number Amazing Grace in Sacrament meeting. It is deeply meaningful to me because it represents something that could save me from myself. I’m nowhere near feeling safe with it. But wouldn’t it be grand if I could reverse years of indoctrination. 
 

I know probably most of you have not had the same experience. Sometimes I wonder if we even attended the same church in the 70s and early 80s. But this was my experience.  And I struggle. 
 

 

I think many of us have felt similar to how you did and do. I was never overall anxious about it, but I did feel like I had to constantly be doing even while feeling it would be ok.  It wasn't till the last few years that I realized I was missing something.  I KNEW that it was what was inside that matters.  I KNEW it wasn't all about doing.  I was not one of those people in despair as many around me were, but the doing part was firmly inside of me. 

We grew up with President Kimball asking to change "I am a child of God" to say "Teach me all that I must do".  I remember lots of lessons about working. And all the goals in young men and young women and pursuit of excellence! 

Doing and working is good.  You can't gain muscle without using it.  You can't learn calculus without studying.  But I think sometimes the church teaches so much of the doing that it forgets about just being.      

[Calm]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

perfectionism of various kinds (self-oriented, socially prescribed, and other-oriented) has been increasing over time between the late 1980s and 2016

My mom was quite the perfectionist and while Dad wasn’t himself, he pushed it in others (he learned from the best, his mother, who was the worst one I have known and proud of it; his dad may have been, self taught with the most beautiful handwriting I have ever seen, I know he worked hard for the approval of his father, which he never got for some reason as his older brother was the favorite).  My dad told my sister when she was quite young and proud of getting up on her own to give a testimony that is she had nothing to say, better not to say it (looking back, quite a few of the family have come to the independent conclusion Dad was on the spectrum…was definitely very low empathy even though very caring and charitable, generous.  Mom may have been as well, but of the “high functioning”, very well masked variety.  Looking at Mom’s two siblings, perfectionism was likely alive and well in the 40s and 50s and I know going strong among my family and girl (and one or two boys) friends in the 60s and 70s.  Are they sure it just isn’t diagnosed more?

Edited June 20, 2024 by Calm

[CV75]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

My mom was quite the perfectionist and while Dad wasn’t himself, he pushed it in others (he learned from the best, his mother, who was one; his dad may have been, self taught with the most beautiful handwriting I have ever seen, I know he worked hard for the approval of his father, which he never got for some reason as his older brother was the favorite).  Told my sister when she was quite young and proud of getting up on her own to give a testimony that is she had nothing to say, better not to say it (looking back, quite a few of the family have come to the independent conclusion Dad was on the spectrum…was definitely very low empathy even though very caring and charitable, generous.  Mom may have been as well, but of the “high functioning”, very well masked variety.  Looking at Mom’s two siblings, perfectionism was likely alive and well in the 40s and 50s and I know going strong among my family and girl (and one or two boys) friends in the 60s and 70s.  Are they sure it just isn’t diagnosed more?

I don't know; there are so many studies out there. My eye was drawn to the ones connecting the increase with the advancements in digital technology, presumably adjusted for reporting. But any kind of rapid societal change creates pressures that bring out dysfunctions that might otherwise lay dormant/latent. For example, perfectionism may not be bad in itself, but in how it is directed, applied, managed. etc. 

[mfbukowski]

I  would like to suggest that we all look at the life of Joseph Smith.

What kind of person was he?  Was he a slave to the rules he was taught as a child?  Was he a perfectionist and always did the right thing?

He did not like what he was learning in church- and yet he obviously had enough chutzpah to actually SEE the errors of the Protestantism in which he was raised.

Did he follow the rules he was taught?

No - he went out into the woods and ASKED GOD which church was true.

God said "none of them".   Imagine doing that today, yourself!

So was he a "rebel"?   Did he follow the rules of his church in a perfectionist manner?

No.

He sought his "own testimony", using today's language.

I would suggest then that finally we are getting back to the church Joseph restored.

Sometimes it seems to me that the "Restoration" needs to be Reconstructed!    None of the doctrines need to be changed- but the way see them need to be adjusted and I think that is exactly what is now happening.

We are the church of Jesus,the Christ not the church of Mormon.   We are encouraged to find our own testimonies, as did Joseph himself!  We need not to be slavish followers of extreme literalism, but to grow up into an adult understanding of who Jesus Christ IS, and emulate his love for all, living and dead.

We are back on the right path, imo, and President Nelson has had much to do with that.   But we have a lot more to do.   A church with an open canon should be a church in constant change and directed by God.

We're getting there!

[BlueDreams]

14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I’d like to share some personal thoughts today. I go through waves of feeling spiritually connected and spiritually disconnected. Right now I am spiritually disconnected, mostly because I’ve been traveling a lot and also because I don’t have a calling. 
Or at least that’s what I think. Which is interesting because as I type, I’m linking that assessment to the topic that I wanted to talk about. (wow.)

I grew up in an environment that was supported by church and family that suggested that love is connected to accomplishment, service, and work.  That is ingrained in me and imprinted deeply.

Being in my 50s now, I noticed the church shifting to a place that I could’ve really used a long time ago. More attempts for a relationship with the savior,  less focus on “ doing” all the things.

I did all the things. All of them. I prayed daily, went to all my seminary classes, always attended church, wore dresses on Sunday, never broke. The sabbath never drank never had sex never broke rules without tremendous guilt. I volunteered. Paid all my tithing.

I did all of these things and more because I wanted to go to the celestial kingdom and nothing less was good enough. The amount of guilt carried around for my minor flaws is mind blowing to me today.

So here is what I wanted to share. I am not a quotes girl- as a therapist, I find them shallow and even at times insulting and mostly innacurate anyway lol- but some things clicked for me as I read the following: 

“Perfection is the defense mechanism for children who have had to work hard.”

 

as a therapist, I understand that our defense mechanisms help to keep us “safe” when we are children. But they do not serve us in adulthood- they harm. 
 

So understanding that in my childhood, I was a perfectionist, I examine the messaging I received (whether it was intentional or not) that my acceptability was centered on what I was doing. Not what I was.

I love the new focus of the church- a personal relationship with a savior and less focus on petty rules and harsh consequences. But for me, it comes late. 
The church does not feel like home to me anymore because in spite of all of my efforts, I fall terribly short of the ideal. In my mind, the ideal is the only reward. Period everything else is the consolation prize for “free agency“ (Que the game show ‘wa wa waaaaaaa’

I hope to be the first to play the new hymn as a special musical number Amazing Grace in Sacrament meeting. It is deeply meaningful to me because it represents something that could save me from myself. I’m nowhere near feeling safe with it. But wouldn’t it be grand if I could reverse years of indoctrination. 
 

I know probably most of you have not had the same experience. Sometimes I wonder if we even attended the same church in the 70s and early 80s. But this was my experience.  And I struggle. 
 

 

I grew up in the 90's-00's. 

I feel like mine was more of the bridge generation where things were starting to transition and people were starting to see holes in the mainstream orientation brought to you by the mid-century focus. 

And it shows in many ways: I've negotiated and turned down callings. I usually wear dresses cuz I like having a reason to dress up, but have a nice white linen dresspant that I like to wear from time to time, since they're too fancy for daily life. I've almost always attended church but don't feel horribly guilty if I don't. I honor the sabbath but find it perfectly honorable to watch nature docs, movies/videogames with my family, and take light hikes to commune with God there. I never had sex but definitely was a little flexible on other things, preferring a principle approach than over-dissecting what I should or shouldn't do in terms of the LOC (among other principles). I rarely fast and never with food. I pray daily because I like communing with God. I read my scriptures almost daily, but "scripture" is now including explorations into other lines of thought and religious texts in an out of the faith. I volunteer when I have time. Don't drink cuz it's stupid. I've broken rules. Sometimes with guilt, often not...particularly if someone couldn't explain the rule to me in a way that made it make sense. I pay my tithing because I believe in the principle of giving to the community structure I and others benefit from. I do these things largely from a place of personal convictions and desires. I assume I'll go to the CK because i know where my heart is while knowing that error, limitations, and faultiness is just the water humans swim in.  I will error. I will hit limits. My effort and actions will be faulty. I'm okay with that. God loves me in them, through them, and - when it's time - by helping me overcome them. In the end I'll go home to Them, to my girls, and be part of the eternal family that is heaven, whatever role (eg degree) I'm in.  

I feel like I've been apart of the shift and am still watching the vestiges of it shift in the people around me. I live in UT now, in an area that still shows tell-tale signs of said mid-century cultural heritage. Since I am a therapist, I get to at times watch people in real time struggle with their own variations of perfectionism (religious or otherwise). I've often wondered why that bug didn't get me harder. The only real one was a stint with wanting the perfect marriage that got beat out of me through my 20's. And that wasn't all that church related.  I remember telling one client struggling with religious perfectionism who was wondering why I didn't that I had no real hope of ever reaching the cultural ideal. I was shot in the idealistic foot somewhere around conception. And I grew up hobbling and in conflict with several religious ideals from an early age. I had to learn through conflict, struggle, and discomfort...far more so than by comfort, unity, and assumption. Many assumptive principle had an invisible asterisk by the word or phrase that I absolutely could see and would have to write in how or even if it could fit me.

 

Trying to figure out how to replicate this for others has often been on my mind. How do I deconstruct how I got to a very dynamic place so that i can help construct it for other people who obviously haven't but are now struggling from their own heritage? Haven't found "the solution"...not sure if there really can be, because at the end of the day everyone's version of perfectionism is just a little bit different. But I think I've stumbled on a few things over the years:

1.) becoming okay with one's brokenness. For some that includes realizing they are broken and that's okay. For others it's to stop trying to fix their brokenness by doing some right action. For others it's allowing space for their ugly to just hang out a little.  

2.) Becoming okay with non-answers, rough edges, conflict, and grays. Kinda tied to the last, but this then gets expanded out to those around them and their contexts. I notice sometimes when they've realized how much their context has hindered them via perfectionism they get angry at the context and set a perfectionist standard on that instead. Which doesn't really help much either.  

3.) Going with wherever God takes...especially when it feels in conflict with your usual. And other similar things that allow you to practice going against the grain in healthy ways

 4.) Exploring whys. What do you do and why? Is it solely tradition, is it a personal conviction, is it sheer thoughtlessness/habit, is it family pressure, etc. 

5.) being okay with the last one even if you don't like the answer. I only wore pants once I moved into a spanish ward where dress often ranges from casual to regular lds wardrobe to all things in between...and no one bats an eye. I didn't in wards that were more traditional in clothing attire because it wasn't really something I wanted to waste my energy pushing against. I already stick out, I didn't need more of that. Is that the "right answer?" No idea, though usually pragmatism isn't idealistic to many...so probably not. Do I care. Ehh...seems like a lot of energy to care.

6.) practicing laziness and learning to value it as its own form of virtue. 

7.) leaning into the discomfort of any of the above. 

 

That's about as far as I've gotten. i'm sure there's more, but I want to practice what I preach, do a little of #6 and play a game for the rest of the night

 

With luv,

BD 

 

Edited June 21, 2024 by BlueDreams

[sunstoned]

12 hours ago, 2BizE said:

I understand your struggle Mustard Seed. Many/most members have been shaped into rule followers. When we cannot be exactly obedient to the church teaching (Christ’s teachings are different from the church’s teachings) we feel guilt and shame. It was pressured into us during those growing years in the 70s and 80s. A similar tactic is used today with the “covenant path”.  It is meant to enforce fear and shame of not being with loved ones in the future if not following the “covenant path”. (Insert RMN talk from conference a few years ago).  
And in this life journey, sometimes one pauses to reflect on the past and look to the future and realizes the path they are on is not the path they want to be on….not the path to happiness but rather only a path to conformity…

Take my virtual upvote!

[Calm]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

I assume I'll go to the CK because i know where my heart is while knowing that error, limitations, and faultiness is just the water humans swim in. 

This is my view as well.

It is logically impossible to qualify for the CK in my view by following a checklist of dos and don’ts.  It makes much more sense to me it’s about who we are, not what we do.  The commandments are there to shape us into people who are prepared to accept God’s help/gifts.  Actions alter our brains, alter our hearts.  We can’t think our way into heaven because thinking is only part of how internal change occurs.

Edited June 21, 2024 by Calm

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, blackstrap said:

And to think this all started because of an interpretation of Matt  5: 48 . 

I think it comes because the blatant sinners stick out more and leaders spend a lot of time working with them and trying to convince them that they have to stop. So you have apostles on down trying to beat it into heads how wrong sins are. Add in that preaching about sins of omission and the continual need to improve often results in numbers going up and you can why it is popular.

The perfectionist doesn’t make a lot of noise. They hunker down and try to do the thing and are just unhappy thinking they won’t get the reward but doggedly keep trying. Or they crack and run for the hills.

My mission taught me the survival value of cynicism when dealing with the direction and expectations of church leaders.

[MustardSeed]

Thank you for validation and encouragements! 
 

8 hours ago, Calm said:

It is logically impossible to qualify for the CK in my view by following a checklist of dos and don’ts.  It makes much more sense to me it’s about who we are, not what we do.

This paradigm is so foreign to my indoctrinated brain in the context of my religion that I can’t seem to reconcile it.  You and I have discussed this before, thanks for your patience with my continual processing.  

 

13 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

We are back on the right path, imo, and President Nelson has had much to do with that.

I’m glad for the young members.  I feel like I scored with all the super activities- church is pretty dull now imo- but I’d trade! 

 

20 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

you matter. 

Very thoughtful and kind, thank you 😊 

 

22 hours ago, Senator said:

From what you expressed, it sounds like we went to the exact same church!
 

What you said resonated with me greatly...

It’s very helpful to know im not making things up. 
 

—— 

I don’t like being a victim.  I’m constantly looking at this stuff and I understand it’s all up to me to change my brain.  
 

I wonder if this is a good case for EMDR? Can I see my earlier experience as having been “traumatic” without needing to toss the entire baby out with the bath water? Hmmm

[MustardSeed]

21 hours ago, CV75 said:

children who were  made to work hard under threats for failing.”

Yes.  The threat of never seeing my parents and 5 siblings and extended family after death.  And the threat of if I didn’t excel I would disappoint my parents.  A fate worse than spanking, to me.  I don’t blame them, they loved me and they were very attentive- I had an enviable childhood- but i took the messages to heart that the ONLY way was to CTR. 

[MustardSeed]

21 hours ago, 2BizE said:

I understand your struggle Mustard Seed. Many/most members have been shaped into rule followers. When we cannot be exactly obedient to the church teaching (Christ’s teachings are different from the church’s teachings) we feel guilt and shame. It was pressured into us during those growing years in the 70s and 80s. A similar tactic is used today with the “covenant path”.  It is meant to enforce fear and shame of not being with loved ones in the future if not following the “covenant path”. (Insert RMN talk from conference a few years ago).  
And in this life journey, sometimes one pauses to reflect on the past and look to the future and realizes the path they are on is not the path they want to be on….not the path to happiness but rather only a path to conformity…

Exactly, thank you.