Facial Hair & Leadership Positions

[blackstrap]

Again, my favorite 

orson pratt - Bing images

[Stargazer]

I've never worn a beard. If I let it go three or four days it begins to annoy me beyond measure. 

When I was in the Army, full beards were not permitted because they would prevent a good seal with our gas masks in combat. That was good enough for me!

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, Malc said:

Perhaps he thought it was fake, but you had it fitted nicely to the contours of your chin  

Shhhhhh!

Just because it's stretched plastic, you don't have to tell everyone!

That picture you drew looks exactly like me-- how could you know that??

😠🤨

[Maestrophil]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:19 PM, Buckeye said:

 

Bummer. The bing AI engine rejected “Dallin Oaks with a beard” as against its policy. So you’ll have to live with “bear with bare arms.”  

You could probably at least do it with GA's from our recent past, who have passed, no?  

[Damien the Leper]

Can you really blame the LDS church for not wanting so much facial hair if the general membership had to look at the monstrosities that were Brigham Young's or John Taylor's beards? 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Damien the Leper

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Damien the Leper said:

Can you really blame the LDS church for not wanting so much facial hair if the general membership had to look at the monstrosities that were Brigham Young's or John Taylor's beards? 

Bunch of hippies!

[mfbukowski]

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Bunch of hippies!

Heck yeah, you a hairphobic or sumptin?  I stand for Hair Freedom, aka The HF Community and denounce Hairphobics wherever they may be!

Our official anthem:

"And the sign said
"Long-haired freaky people
Need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat
And I went in to ask him why
He said, "You look like a fine upstandin' young man
I think you'll do"
So I took off my hat and said, "Imagine that
Huh, me workin' for you!"

😠

🙃

https://fb.watch/nGxx-kjLt3/?mibextid=9R9pXO

 

 

 

[Diamondhands69]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:29 PM, Damien the Leper said:

Can you really blame the LDS church for not wanting so much facial hair if the general membership had to look at the monstrosities that were Brigham Young's or John Taylor's beards? 

Can you imagine some of these little teen girls like Phebe Amelia Woodruff and Sarah Ephramina “Minnie” Jensen who were 14 and 15 years old marrying Brigham young (55) and Lorenzo snow (57)) with their mangy beards? Must have been a dream of a honeymoon for the girls. 

[Diamondhands69]

My stake pres still pushes the no beard rule for all stake callings. There are a few legends in the stake who have refused to shave for a new calling and were released over it or the calling withdrawn if they didn’t comply before being sustained. Phariseeism. 

[MustardSeed]

5 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

My stake pres still pushes the no beard rule for all stake callings. There are a few legends in the stake who have refused to shave for a new calling and were released over it or the calling withdrawn if they didn’t comply before being sustained. Phariseeism. 

Honestly that’s so wrong. 

[JAHS]

According to Bishop Victor L. Brown in April 1977:
"President Lee on several occasions gave wise counsel with respect to following the living prophet." President Brown then quotes President Harold B. Lee's story of a woman who wrote,
"Tomorrow my husband will shave off his long, full beard. Because of the request of the stake president and your direction in the Priesthood Bulletin, he must not have the appearance of evil or rebellion if he is to get a recommend to go to the temple." Then President Lee responded to the letter,
"Now, in your letter you tell me that you are saddened because with the shaving off of the beard and the cutting of the hair, which, to you, made your husband appear as the prophets Moses and Jacob, he would no longer bear that resemblance. I wonder if you might not be wiser to think of following the appearance of the prophets of today. President David O. McKay had no beard or long hair; neither did President Joseph Fielding Smith; and neither does your humble servant whom you have acknowledged as the Lord's prophet.
Why is it that you want your husband to look like Moses and Jacob, rather than to look like the modern prophets to whom you are expressing allegiance? "

Of course this was 46 years ago and our culture and trends in the church change over time.

[Diamondhands69]

37 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Honestly that’s so wrong. 

Exactly, but as you know the leaders are not to be criticized even if the criticism is true. That said, random leaders continue to preside over their congregations making fake rules. Fortunately people are pushing back and someday these little power trips will be a thing of the past. Replaced with something else no doubt, but beards will be cool again. 

[2BizE]

About 20 years ago, some high ranking general authorities came to my stake for stake conference. In the adult Saturday evening session, the lead GA, whom most of you would know, probably some of you personally, told the congregation that those members with facial hair were not fully committed to the gospel and if they did not shave it by the next day, they were disobeying the servants of God, and thus disobeying God. This caused a huge fiasco in the stake. Men, for various reasons had facial hair. Some had medical reasons, some just really like having a beard, others had a beard for professional reasons. One was often an expert witness in his area of expertise and having a beard made him look more professional and more expertly. This caused much ongoing problems and issues in particular around leadership roles in the church.

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Can you imagine some of these little teen girls like Phebe Amelia Woodruff and Sarah Ephramina “Minnie” Jensen who were 14 and 15 years old marrying Brigham young (55) and Lorenzo snow (57)) with their mangy beards? Must have been a dream of a honeymoon for the girls. 

My wife tells stories of being in that age group, and a song that was known to all, yet not mentioned to adults:

"Some day my prince will come

In the Millenium

He'll walk right up to me 

And say "You're number Forty-Three  ...."

☹️

[Diamondhands69]

9 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

My wife tells stories of being in that age group, and a song that was known to all, yet not mentioned to adults:

"Some day my prince will come

In the Millenium

He'll walk right up to me 

And say "You're number Forty-Three  ...."

☹️

Yea the whole thing is pathetic. There’s no way back then any teenage girl wanted to marry some fifty year old man. What are they gonna say? No? Not when your dad is the one brokering the trade lol… what a mess 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Diamondhands69
Typo

[mfbukowski]

15 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Yea the whole thing is pathetic. There’s no way back then any teenage girl wanted to marry some fifty year old man. What are they gonna fo say no? Not when your dad is the one brokering the trade lol… what a mess 

Well frankly I think that is taking it far too far.  Just felt I needed to say that.

Of course as spirits, earthly age and looks would become irrevelant.  If the girls actually felt that way, they needed to be taught the true gospel.

They weren't married to a "fifty year old man"- they could be married to a "2000 year old man. "  Think of the original Apostles- would it be abhorent for that 15 year old girl fall in love and be one of the wives of one of the original apostles and be sealed to him?

To take that attitude literally - that they were marrying a "50 year old man" is to demonstrate their level of gospel maturity- and I am sorry for any momentum I have made to carry that forward-  I saw that post as a joke.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

There’s no way back then any teenage girl wanted to marry some fifty year old man.

I think you are thinking of the modern teenager and a romanticized version at that.

If this 15 year old had been working with her family as long as she could remember to barely have enough to eat or was in some other difficult situation and the 50 year old offered financial security, I expect many young women (they were young women in that time period, they did not get the extended childhood teens get these days) would accept the offer on her own accord, thinking of the future security of herself and her children.

Or if the 50 year old to be husband offered her opportunities for greater education or fulfillment of other dreams, a young woman might accept the proposal.

While romantic marriages happened, many married for convenience/betterment of their situation at that time (this occurred with some of my ancestors with their first monogamous marriages when they got to Utah unhitched and were looking to settle down and friends connected them with someone else in the same situation) and not romance.  As a polygamous wife, they might have seen their likelihood of having to interact with their husband as more limited than if they were in a monogamous marriage and seen it as a more independent life (sometimes this created more difficulties than opportunities, of course).

People were still marrying back then more for someone to help with the work and less for companionship.  The ability to stay single and not be impoverished for women didn’t really get going until the next century and a single male settler would have to hire someone to help or remain with a small property.  Once other job possibilities opened up with larger cities and trade, then singlehood was more attractive. A wife and children to help meant more guaranteed workers in the country, in the city, they meant more mouths to feed.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Calm

[Rain]

6 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

My stake pres still pushes the no beard rule for all stake callings. There are a few legends in the stake who have refused to shave for a new calling and were released over it or the calling withdrawn if they didn’t comply before being sustained. Phariseeism. 

That reminds me of a talk given by one of my Bishopric’s counselors sometime after an apostle talked about not wearing flipflops to church. Someone related to him was a bishop or stake president. That relative gave a talk about not wearing open toed shoes to church. 

Well, some of the women said they didn't care, they would wear them anyway.  Some, immediately that week go rid of their shoes.

The leader came home and his wife pulled out her dress shoes and asked what he thought of her wearing some of these shoes to church.  He said they were all great. She explained that some of these were open toed and that she thought he probably meant flip flops.  He felt bad about what he had said in his talk because of not understanding.

Well, the bishopric counselor praised the women who were "quickly obedient" and got rid of their shoes.  And I thought, 1. You didn't keep them for other occasions? and 2. Why didn’t you communicate? Why didn't you take them to him first and humbly ask, "You feel I shouldn't wear these to church?"

[maj]

Currently serving on a Bishopric, had a beard for the last 10 years... Ironically since I was released as Bishop!

[CV75]

7 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Can you imagine some of these little teen girls like Phebe Amelia Woodruff and Sarah Ephramina “Minnie” Jensen who were 14 and 15 years old marrying Brigham young (55) and Lorenzo snow (57)) with their mangy beards? Must have been a dream of a honeymoon for the girls. 

A great example of presentism! 

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Well, the bishopric counselor praised the women who were "quickly obedient" and got rid of their shoes.

Barf. 

[bluebell]

58 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Barf. 

Second.  How is that not blind obedience?  It's obedience based on nothing.

[Damien the Leper]

Some of these "suggestions" and those who follow them are ridiculous. The women in my family would have just laughed off the suggestion not to wear flip flops. When it comes to stuff like this... it's just guys in authority having an opinion and being dumb.

[The Nehor]

A woman in my ward went off recently about how wearing pants in church was ‘wrong’. I was so tempted to wear a dress the next week.

[MustardSeed]

40 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Second.  How is that not blind obedience?  It's obedience based on nothing.

Even more barfy is the praise in lieu of “no, I was incorrect in my directive.  You should not have followed directives without confirmation from God, nor should you ever.”