Brad Wilcox fireside to Alpine youth on Feb 6.

[jkwilliams]

7 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Thank you for the correction.

It’s a pretty insignificant distinction, as the man still represents the church as a general officer. 

[morgan.deane]

9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It’s a pretty insignificant distinction, as the man still represents the church as a general officer. 

Jk Williams and CA Steve beat me to it. The difference between General authority and general officer is really a distinction without difference so I'm not sure why Scott is repeatedly pettifogging the point. As CA Steve pointed out,[sarcasm font] I'm sure glad it was only a general officer instead of a capital G authority that gave that train wreck of a talk. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by morgan.deane

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It’s a pretty insignificant distinction, as the man still represents the church as a general officer. 

Just make the A an a and I think Rivers was quite accurate.  General authorities in the church do need to assume they will be recorded…or to make it even more obvious make it “All general authorities in the church….”. And if anyone complains, just say “I’m using a description, not a title…”.   

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, morgan.deane said:

Jk Williams and CA Steve beat me to it. The difference between General authority and general officer is really a distinction without difference so I'm not sure why Scott is repeatedly pettifogging the point. As CA Steve pointed out,[sarcasm font] I'm sure glad it was only a general officer instead of a capital G authority that gave that train wreck of a talk. 

General Officer, don’t you mean?   

[morgan.deane]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

General Officer, don’t you mean?   

lol. Exactly, I don't even know or care at this point. 

[Scott Lloyd]

49 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Indeed they are General Officers and are typically listed/identified on the Church websites where the General Authorities are. e.g. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/global-leadership-of-the-church?lang=eng

 

Yes,  thanks for the link. 

[MorningStar]

I couldn't listen to the whole talk due to the noise from my own hurling. 

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

It’s a pretty insignificant distinction, as the man still represents the church as a general officer. 

 

3 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

Jk Williams and CA Steve beat me to it. The difference between General authority and general officer is really a distinction without difference so I'm not sure why Scott is repeatedly pettifogging the point. As CA Steve pointed out,[sarcasm font] I'm sure glad it was only a general officer instead of a capital G authority that gave that train wreck of a talk. 

It’s not an “insignificant distinction” or a “distinction without out a difference.” General Authorities comprise the highest governing councils in the Church and are quite different in their authority and stewardship from general officers. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

I couldn't listen to the whole talk due to the noise from my own hurling. 

I couldn't either.  It was too embarrassing.

Edited February 9, 2022 by bluebell

[ttribe]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

I haven’t listened to the talk, but it seems like active church members are as appalled and embarrassed by the talk as any hysterical, pearl-clutching apostates. 

My son showed me the brief clip he saw, and we both thought he was trying too hard to “relate” to the kids. But the one clip was certainly cringe-worthy, at best.

[breathing heavily] Now, where did I put my pearls? 😂

I confess, my pearls were damaged by the strength of my clutching in this instance....

[Nemesis]

This would have never happened if I was moderating the fireside. 
 

-Nemesis

[jkwilliams]

20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

It’s not an “insignificant distinction” or a “distinction without out a difference.” General Authorities comprise the highest governing councils in the Church and are quite different in their authority and stewardship. 

It doesn’t matter because none of the kids who heard that will make that distinction. In that sense, it is absolutely insignificant. 

[Peacefully]

3 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

This would have never happened if I was moderating the fireside. 
 

-Nemesis

Drop the mike! Two thumbs way up!

Edited February 9, 2022 by Peacefully

[ttribe]

6 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

This would have never happened if I was moderating the fireside. 
 

-Nemesis

Wait...Nemesis has a SENSE OF HUMOR?!

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Rivers said:

In this age of smart phones, General Authorities just need to assume everything they say to a congregation is public.

And teachers, politicians, bosses, managers, school boards, rioters, bus drivers, waiters, pizza deliverers, border guards, shoppers, parents, homeless folk, muggers, professors, CEOs, doctors, police, well, just about everyone over the age of 12. 
 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[cinepro]

22 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

It’s not an “insignificant distinction” or a “distinction without out a difference.” General Authorities comprise the highest governing councils in the Church and are quite different in their authority and stewardship. 

It's an interesting distinction, which I suspect has roots in how things used to be really separated in the Church (with RS, SS, YM, YW etc. having their own budgets, boards, publications etc.) But now that everything is correlated, there's much less of an obvious distinction. Would you agree?

[morgan.deane]

This is pretty ridiculous, but lets assume you are completely correct: Huge difference, capitalize the G, how dare anyone suggest Wilcox is remotely on the same level as the capital Gs, blah, blah blah...So what? At most you are giving the institutional leadership and Wilcox a small mulligan because Wilcox doesn't have access to the same governing councils, authority, and stewardship and thus the GENERAL AUTHORITIES can more easily disavow him, a lowly general officer, and Wilcox can more easily claim that, as a mere low level functionary, his words don't really reflect badly on God, the church, or himself.  But they do reflect badly on all of the above regardless of how much you want to split hairs over his rank.

Especially to the youth who showed up thinking they were listening to an authority representing God and His Church and didn't bother to look up Scott's dictionary of church leadership and learn all the implicit nuances of his rank beforehand.  In any leadership capacity I would think he might have better sense than the junior companion on his mission that knows better than to denigrate the religious experience of others as "playing church." Or to call critics he was associated with "stupid" and "shallow."

I could go on. I'd prefer a better discussion about his tone, antics, or viral quotes, and how to move forward with respect, tolerance, and less racism, far more than to claim that if John Dehlin is really mad about it, it doesn't really matter to you or to pettifog his relative rank in the church three times now!   We get your point and I'm willing to concede the incredibly important distinction in rank /s, because it still doesn't change or excuse the substance in his talk.  

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s not an “insignificant distinction” or a “distinction without out a difference.” General Authorities comprise the highest governing councils in the Church and are quite different in their authority and stewardship. 

Did Brother Wilcox have authority to represent the Church  as he spoke at the fireside in his stewardship as a General Officer or was he just there pretty much like a lay member who was appointed by the bishop to speak in sacrament?

Edited February 9, 2022 by Calm

[Duncan]

I wonder who took the video? how did it leak?

[JustAnAustralian]

30 minutes ago, cinepro said:

But now that everything is correlated, there's much less of an obvious distinction. Would you agree?

Except this wasn't correlated lesson content. It was an unvetted (and I assume unscripted) fireside.

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did Brother Wilcox have authority to represent the Church  as he spoke at the fireside in his stewardship as a General Officer or was he just there pretty much like a lay member who was appointed by the bishop to speak in sacrament?

There's more than that binary. He has a long history with sunday school and youth in the church and is a BYU academic. You'd have to ask the Alpine West Stake President why Brad was there.

Edited February 9, 2022 by JustAnAustralian

[bluebell]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did Brother Wilcox have authority to represent the Church  as he spoke at the fireside in his stewardship as a General Officer or was he just there pretty much like a lay member who was appointed by the bishop to speak in sacrament?

It would depend on whether he was sent there by the church, as a function of his calling, or if he was asked to speak as a guest speaker by someone in the ward. 

[Buckeye]

22 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I wonder who took the video? how did it leak?

The video appears to be intentionally set up by the fireside, much like my ward broadcasts sacrament meeting (except the ordinance). The video is front and center, clear, and no bouncing around. It’s not someone surreptitiously filming from their jacket. 
So the real question is who leaked it …  

[2BizE]

5 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I think of him as a general authority. But are the members of the general young women’s presidency considered general authorities? Maybe they should be but I don’t think they are. I’m not sure it’s really a very well defined term.

The link I provided from the church lists him as a General Authority/General Officer.  

[JustAnAustralian]

2 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

The link I provided from the church lists him as a General Authority/General Officer.  

General Authorities and General Officers are not the same thing.

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

The video appears to be intentionally set up by the fireside, much like my ward broadcasts sacrament meeting (except the ordinance). The video is front and center, clear, and no bouncing around. It’s not someone surreptitiously filming from their jacket. 
So the real question is who leaked it …  

I wonder if it was broadcasted online because of covid. And someone at home recorded and rebroadcasted.  Anyone know where it first appeared?

This was north Utah Valley and an half an hour south of them, we are broadcasting our women’s conference iirc (I need to doublecheck as I didn’t look at it closely as I have the weirdest sleep cycle going on right now and expected to be asleep during it) online. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Calm