Brad Wilcox fireside to Alpine youth on Feb 6.

[Buckeye]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

I wonder if it was broadcasted online because of covid. And someone at home recorded and rebroadcasted.  Anyone know where it first appeared?

This was north Utah Valley and an half an hour south of them, we are broadcasting our women’s conference iirc (I need to doublecheck as I didn’t look at it closely as I have the weirdest sleep cycle going on right now and expected to be asleep during it) online. 

Ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  

[carbon dioxide]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

He needs to stick to a written talk that has been gone over by someone who is not a good friend of his.

A good friend might point out the problems and he could be more persuaded by a friend than someone who is not.   Perhaps giving it in front of of his wife and kids would have been a help as well.  Even recording oneself and listening to it afterwards might cause some changes.  I find also when I think I have a good idea or comment, I rehearse it an number of times through my head.  The more I do it, sometimes I decide my good thought was not so good.   When I am speaking without much thought, I get into more trouble and then I regret later of what I said.   All of this could have been avoided through preparation.

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

Ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  

Did I?  What do I get?

[LoudmouthMormon]

FYI, the handbook section 29.7 - Streaming Meetings and Holding Virtual Meetings seems relevant.  It seems the Bishop needs to authorize any broadcast stream, and the section only mentions streaming sacrament meetings, funerals, and weddings.  The Stake President can authorize streaming stake conference.  That's it for streaming.

In my own meetinghouse, shared by 3 wards in 2 stakes, we've had recurring issues with folks wanting/doing things with our broadcast equipment that make us technology specialists wince.  The missionaries got hold of it, put on some impromptu p-day festivities, darn near busting the camera in the process.  Not a month goes by without me hearing about one of the wards having an issue broadcasting because "someone messed with the settings and it stopped working".  We're currently hiding the camera in the most secluded locked room we can find - the furnace room.  

I'm guessing whatever bishop was presiding over this fireside didn't know he shouldn't authorize the broadcast, or didn't get asked in the first place.  

[SeekingUnderstanding]

3 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I'm guessing whatever bishop was presiding over this fireside didn't know he shouldn't authorize the broadcast, or didn't get asked in the first place.  

It was presided over by a stake president. Two more stake presidents were in attendance, and a counselor to the stake president was attending via zoom. 

[smac97]

The Trib is reporting that BYU has issued a statement:

Quote

When asked, Wilcox and the church did not offer further comments.

BYU, however, put out a statement Tuesday, explaining “we are deeply concerned with the words recently used by Dr. Brad Wilcox” and “we appreciate his sincere apology.”

The complete text of BYU's two tweets:

We are deeply concerned with the words recently used by Dr. Brad Wilcox. We appreciate his sincere apology & believe he is committed to learn from this experience. BYU remains committed to upholding President Nelson’s charge to root out racism in our institutions. 1/2

We are carrying out the guiding principles outlined by President Worthen in evaluating and implementing the recommendations provided by the Committee on Race, Equity and Belonging, including the creation of a new Office of Belonging. 2/2

 

[Rain]

 

7 hours ago, 2BizE said:

What does it mean that Brad Wilcox is not a general authority? He is certainly called by the FP to represent them and the church.  He is also on this list of General Authorities and Officers:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/leaders/list?lang=eng

Interesting list.  The only "president" listed is President Nelson. All of the other presidents are listed as "_______ presidency".  The pattern holds true with the presiding bishop as well. 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, cinepro said:

It's an interesting distinction, which I suspect has roots in how things used to be really separated in the Church (with RS, SS, YM, YW etc. having their own budgets, boards, publications etc.) But now that everything is correlated, there's much less of an obvious distinction. Would you agree?

Nope. 

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Just make the A an a and I think Rivers was quite accurate.  General authorities in the church do need to assume they will be recorded…or to make it even more obvious make it “All general authorities in the church….”. And if anyone complains, just say “I’m using a description, not a title…”.   

Why not just express it in a way that’s not confusing?

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Buckeye said:

The video appears to be intentionally set up by the fireside, much like my ward broadcasts sacrament meeting (except the ordinance). The video is front and center, clear, and no bouncing around. It’s not someone surreptitiously filming from their jacket. 
So the real question is who leaked it …  

 

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I wonder if it was broadcasted online because of covid. And someone at home recorded and rebroadcasted.  Anyone know where it first appeared?

This was north Utah Valley and an half an hour south of them, we are broadcasting our women’s conference iirc (I need to doublecheck as I didn’t look at it closely as I have the weirdest sleep cycle going on right now and expected to be asleep during it) online. 

It has become quite common these days to set up live streams of local Church meetings to accommodate those who are shut in due to COVID or other circumstances. On Sunday, we had a fireside in our stake preliminary to a youth handcart trek this summer. We watched the live stream with our daughter because we had guests and couldn’t make it to the stake center. 
 

Once a live stream is sent out, it’s an easy matter to record it remotely and then do whatever one wants with the recording. Without knowing definitively, I’m pretty confident that’s what happened with regard to the event with Brother Wilcox. It’s no great mystery. 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Buckeye said:

The video appears to be intentionally set up by the fireside, much like my ward broadcasts sacrament meeting (except the ordinance). The video is front and center, clear, and no bouncing around. It’s not someone surreptitiously filming from their jacket. 
So the real question is who leaked it …  

We Zoom sacrament meeting, but it is not recorded and saved.

Quote

21.1.33
Recording Talks or Addresses of General Authorities and Area Seventies

Church members should not record the talks or addresses that General Authorities and Area Seventies give at stake conferences, missionary meetings, or other meetings. However, members may record broadcasts of general conference on home equipment for personal, noncommercial use.

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why not just express it in a way that’s not confusing?

Since you are pretty much the only one insisting on the specific usage, I get the impression others aren’t that confused.

[MorningStar]

3 hours ago, Nemesis said:

This would have never happened if I was moderating the fireside. 
 

-Nemesis

😂😂😂

 

[Calm]

57 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It was presided over by a stake president. Two more stake presidents were in attendance, and a counselor to the stake president was attending via zoom. 

It was a Tristake Fireside…I have no idea at what level that needs to be approved.  Perhaps three SPs get together and say “why not” and there is no need to clear it or the speaker with anyone else or perhaps not…

Anyone know?

[Scott Lloyd]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

Since you are pretty much the only one insisting on the specific usage, I get the impression others aren’t that confused.

I dunno about that. I’ve seen quite a bit of confusion on this thread alone. And you don’t seem very interested in avoiding it. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I'm guessing whatever bishop was presiding over this fireside didn't know he shouldn't authorize the broadcast, or didn't get asked in the first place.  

A tristake fireside sounds like its procedures might be referenced in a handbook not available publicly, assuming there are standard procedures.

[kimpearson]

I have read your thoughts with great interest and confess to an incredible concern at all the attempts to minimize the profound wrongness of this talk.

Why does it make any difference where the video came from?  Other than an effort to somehow excuse the content of the talk as being unauthorized for public consumption.  The fireside was broadcast on the Church's own broadcast system and linked in YouTube.  John Dehlin was alerted to it by several members in the Alpine stakes as well as numerous TikTok clips.  I don't know if it is still available today but it was available to pretty much any member of the Church on Monday.

What difference does it make whether Brad Wilcox is a GA or GO?  Other than an attempt to argue that somehow his talk doesn't really count.  Brad has been giving similar firesides across the Church to the youth for over a year now.  I have watched similar firesides to the youth in stakes in England and New Zealand.  The Salt Lake Tribune reported he has a similar fireside scheduled for February 20th in California.  None of the other members of the Young Men's general presidency seem to be speaking at such firesides.  My belief founded on nothing but my impressions is that due to Brad Wilcox's history of supposedly appealing to youth, he has been designated to get the message out to the youth.  It is my impression based on discussions with some involved in Church administration, that the Young Men's and Young Women's presidencies have more contact with the top 15 than many of the seventy.  This is because of the emphasis President Nielsen and the quorum of the 12 have placed on the youth.  Brad mentions in his Alpine talk that he just recently met with Elder Uchtdorf.  Brad has been in the presidency for almost 2 years and closely involved in implementing the new youth programs including the For the Strength of youth conferences.  Brad has been exposed to the thinking of the general authorities.  Why would he ever give a talk that didn't echo the thoughts of the general authorities he has been exposed to.  Leaders of the Church from bishop up are conditioned and judged by their ability to support the party line.

Why are some trying to argue this talk doesn't represent the real Brad Wilcox?  Other than to attempt to minimize and excuse the talk as an aberration to be ignored.  Yes he gave a talk on the atonement and in general conference that were very appealing.  Go review the other firesides and addresses Brad has given.  You find the same arrogance and statements over and over that he is right and everyone else is wrong with no substance to their beliefs.   He repeats his lie over and over to the youth that if they leave the Church they will lose everything and life will become an unbearable tragedy of darkness and despair.  I have seen discussions of former students stating the Brad talks this way in his religion classes at BYU.  What we saw was the real Brad Wilcox.  His apology was a pathetic attempt to justify his beliefs as a miscommunication.  Where was the apology for demeaning women as somehow being unfaithful or angry for asking about the priesthood?  Where was the apology for the sincere beliefs of literally billions of others who are not members of our church that were given the title of "playing at religion".  How ironic when this same man will argue that other religions don't give the LDS church the respect it deserves.  Where is the apology for labeling the marriages of 99.99% of the worlds as shams?  Where is the apology for the sarcasm and disrespect to the leader of another church Brad supposedly debated with in Idaho Falls, Idaho.  Once again we saw the real Brad Wilcox so quit trying to pretend it was all a big mistake.

This talk was the best example I have ever heard of the philosophies of men mingled with scriptures.  There was nothing virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy in this talks  No one's testimony of Jesus Christ was increased because of this talk.  The contention in this world and church was not reduced by this talk but only increased.  This talk was full of lies, half truths, false doctrine, arrogance and pride.  It was horrible.  No one will ever use this talk to convert someone to the Church.

My bottom line fear is that when you take this talk, Elder Holland's BYU talk, BYU's announcement this week to cease providing any kind of medical services to transgender individuals there is evidence of a shift to harshness as the approach to many of the issues facing the Church.  It breaks my heart how anyone can hurt so many people in the name of supposed righteousness.  

[Scott Lloyd]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

A tristake fireside sounds like its procedures might be referenced in a handbook not available publicly, assuming there are standard procedures.

I thought all such handbooks were available publicly now. 

[morgan.deane]

12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I dunno about that. I’ve seen quite a bit of confusion on this thread alone. And you seem very interested in avoiding it. 

We aren't "avoiding it." As several people have explained now, including me in a long post that you, um, avoided, the exact rank of Wilcox is a meaningless point that you seem obsessed with. I'd be upset with an 18 year old junior companion that used the tone, phrases, and teachings of Wilcox. He was very dismissive and rude at a number of points, not just his discussion of blacks and the priesthood. That fact that he isn't a junior companion, but a Phd holding leader in the church that just went viral should disturb every member. Not lead them on a weird, stubborn crusade to correct everyone about his exact rank, function, and title, as though that's the problem here. 

[sunstoned]

4 hours ago, Nemesis said:

This would have never happened if I was moderating the fireside. 
 

-Nemesis

please take my virtual rep point.

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, morgan.deane said:

We aren't "avoiding it." As several people have explained now, including me in a long post that you, um, avoided, the exact rank of Wilcox is a meaningless point that you seem obsessed with. I'd be upset with an 18 year old junior companion that used the tone, phrases, and teachings of Wilcox. He was very dismissive and rude at a number of points, not just his discussion of blacks and the priesthood. That fact that he isn't a junior companion, but a Phd holding leader in the church that just went viral should disturb every member. Not lead them on a weird, stubborn crusade to correct everyone about his exact rank, function, and title, as though that's the problem here. 

I’m less than impressed that one with a high academic ranking seems so clueless about the distinction between a General Authority and a general officer. Are you this careless when you prepare your articles and lectures? 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

The Trib is reporting that BYU has issued a statement:

The complete text of BYU's two tweets:

We are deeply concerned with the words recently used by Dr. Brad Wilcox. We appreciate his sincere apology & believe he is committed to learn from this experience. BYU remains committed to upholding President Nelson’s charge to root out racism in our institutions. 1/2

We are carrying out the guiding principles outlined by President Worthen in evaluating and implementing the recommendations provided by the Committee on Race, Equity and Belonging, including the creation of a new Office of Belonging. 2/2

 

 

The Daily Universe is also reporting BYU's response.   It is a good good follow up story with several BYU affiliated people weighing in.

Quote

Some social media users connected to BYU responded to Brother Wilcox’s fireside comments with disappointment. @SoelbergGrace tweeted, “If you begin with ‘the blacks,’ your argument is immediately invalid. If you can’t even acknowledge my humanity you don’t get to speak on my experience.”

https://universe.byu.edu/2022/02/08/byu-responds-to-young-men-counselor-professors-comments-on-race/#:~:text=BYU responded on Tuesday to,about race and the priesthood.&text=“My dear friends%2C I made,%2C” Wilcox wrote on Facebook.

[JustAnAustralian]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

It was a Tristake Fireside…

 

28 minutes ago, Calm said:

A tristake fireside sounds like its procedures might be referenced in a handbook not available publicly, assuming there are standard procedures.

 

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

A tristake fireside sounds like its procedures might be referenced in a handbook not available publicly, assuming there are standard procedures.

Multistake activities (as a tri-stake devotional would be) require Area approval (handbook 20.3.3). 

14 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

The fireside was broadcast on the Church's own broadcast system

It was broadcast over zoom. Yes it was the stake account, and yes they intended to broadcast it, but it was not intended to be a worldwide broadcast. That wouldn't be via zoom.

14 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

What difference does it make whether Brad Wilcox is a GA or GO?

Actual authority?

14 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

President Nielsen

Nelson

15 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

Why are some trying to argue this talk doesn't represent the real Brad Wilcox?  Other than to attempt to minimize and excuse the talk as an aberration to be ignored.

Because if it was just an aberration, it can be criticised, and then relegated to things not brought up again. If he's always like that, then the question should be why he was invited to give a devotional talk.

16 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

No one will ever use this talk to convert someone to the Church.

It wasn't intended to be used to convert people to the church.

[Peacefully]

30 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

I have read your thoughts with great interest and confess to an incredible concern at all the attempts to minimize the profound wrongness of this talk.

Why does it make any difference where the video came from?  Other than an effort to somehow excuse the content of the talk as being unauthorized for public consumption.  The fireside was broadcast on the Church's own broadcast system and linked in YouTube.  John Dehlin was alerted to it by several members in the Alpine stakes as well as numerous TikTok clips.  I don't know if it is still available today but it was available to pretty much any member of the Church on Monday.

What difference does it make whether Brad Wilcox is a GA or GO?  Other than an attempt to argue that somehow his talk doesn't really count.  Brad has been giving similar firesides across the Church to the youth for over a year now.  I have watched similar firesides to the youth in stakes in England and New Zealand.  The Salt Lake Tribune reported he has a similar fireside scheduled for February 20th in California.  None of the other members of the Young Men's general presidency seem to be speaking at such firesides.  My belief founded on nothing but my impressions is that due to Brad Wilcox's history of supposedly appealing to youth, he has been designated to get the message out to the youth.  It is my impression based on discussions with some involved in Church administration, that the Young Men's and Young Women's presidencies have more contact with the top 15 than many of the seventy.  This is because of the emphasis President Nielsen and the quorum of the 12 have placed on the youth.  Brad mentions in his Alpine talk that he just recently met with Elder Uchtdorf.  Brad has been in the presidency for almost 2 years and closely involved in implementing the new youth programs including the For the Strength of youth conferences.  Brad has been exposed to the thinking of the general authorities.  Why would he ever give a talk that didn't echo the thoughts of the general authorities he has been exposed to.  Leaders of the Church from bishop up are conditioned and judged by their ability to support the party line.

Why are some trying to argue this talk doesn't represent the real Brad Wilcox?  Other than to attempt to minimize and excuse the talk as an aberration to be ignored.  Yes he gave a talk on the atonement and in general conference that were very appealing.  Go review the other firesides and addresses Brad has given.  You find the same arrogance and statements over and over that he is right and everyone else is wrong with no substance to their beliefs.   He repeats his lie over and over to the youth that if they leave the Church they will lose everything and life will become an unbearable tragedy of darkness and despair.  I have seen discussions of former students stating the Brad talks this way in his religion classes at BYU.  What we saw was the real Brad Wilcox.  His apology was a pathetic attempt to justify his beliefs as a miscommunication.  Where was the apology for demeaning women as somehow being unfaithful or angry for asking about the priesthood?  Where was the apology for the sincere beliefs of literally billions of others who are not members of our church that were given the title of "playing at religion".  How ironic when this same man will argue that other religions don't give the LDS church the respect it deserves.  Where is the apology for labeling the marriages of 99.99% of the worlds as shams?  Where is the apology for the sarcasm and disrespect to the leader of another church Brad supposedly debated with in Idaho Falls, Idaho.  Once again we saw the real Brad Wilcox so quit trying to pretend it was all a big mistake.

This talk was the best example I have ever heard of the philosophies of men mingled with scriptures.  There was nothing virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy in this talks  No one's testimony of Jesus Christ was increased because of this talk.  The contention in this world and church was not reduced by this talk but only increased.  This talk was full of lies, half truths, false doctrine, arrogance and pride.  It was horrible.  No one will ever use this talk to convert someone to the Church.

My bottom line fear is that when you take this talk, Elder Holland's BYU talk, BYU's announcement this week to cease providing any kind of medical services to transgender individuals there is evidence of a shift to harshness as the approach to many of the issues facing the Church.  It breaks my heart how anyone can hurt so many people in the name of supposed righteousness.  

I think we need to expect more from our leaders, but sadly, I think we will have to wait for a new generation of leaders before things change. 

[MorningStar]

4 hours ago, ttribe said:

I confess, my pearls were damaged by the strength of my clutching in this instance....

I broke the string and slipped on the runaway pearls, nearly cracking my head open.