Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[ttribe]

Just now, rongo said:

Well, it isn't just Ducey --- it was a bill signed into law. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens after September 28 (when a judge said is the earliest the ban on mask mandates can kick in). It will also be interesting to see if Ducey's $163 million for schools without mask mandates (excluding districts that have imposed one) holds up. 

My local district where I live is considering a mask mandate tonight, but the "tea leaves" say that they will vote 4-1 to keep masking parental choice. The mandate under consideration would include a parent opt-out (non waiver), so it's essentially a symbolic act only (which is true of other district mandates, too, in my opinion). 

As far as local school boards go, there is a real chance in many places of people losing elections or being recalled over this issue, so that is in the back of politicians' minds. 

I know what it is; I characterized it how I did because it began life as his executive order.  The fact that our legislature is full of conspiracy-minded sycophants simply leads to rubber stamps on this nonsense.

[Rain]

3 hours ago, ttribe said:

Ducey's stupid "No Mask Mandates" order should be disregarded, with impunity.

Not arguing with you.  Have just found it all so interesting how it is working out.  It makes me wonder if I have missed things in other places I lived, if things have just changed or if this is how AZ is.  (I've lived here 8 years).

[ttribe]

32 minutes ago, Rain said:

Not arguing with you.  Have just found it all so interesting how it is working out.  It makes me wonder if I have missed things in other places I lived, if things have just changed or if this is how AZ is.  (I've lived here 8 years).

Aside from the Mecham fiasco when I was a kid, Arpaio fiasco in the 90s and 00's, and now this, it's pretty normal....wait, maybe it really is just this crazy, now that I think about it.

[CA Steve]

We need to see more of this from the private sector.

Delta will hike insurance premiums and limit sick pay for unvaccinated employees.

 

Good for Delta. 

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

We need to see more of this from the private sector.

Delta will hike insurance premiums and limit sick pay for unvaccinated employees.

 

Good for Delta. 

I was thinking Covid Delta for a second.

[pogi]

59 minutes ago, Calm said:

I was thinking Covid Delta for a second.

I wonder if they serve Corona?

This pandemic is going to kill search engine optimization for these companies. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by pogi

[bsjkki]

Important study on vaccine side effects vs covid infection. 
https://m.jpost.com/health-science/serious-adverse-events-more-likely-from-covid-vs-covid-vaccine-study-677731

More info on the study. https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/94213

Interesting to compare the two articles on the same study.

Edited August 26, 2021 by bsjkki

[Hamba Tuhan]

A poignant story from the San Angelo [Texas] Standard-Tribune.

It appears from some of the photographs that the family are Church members:

Quote

"Show me the science that masks work," Caleb wrote on the City of San Angelo's official Facebook in December 2020. "Show me the evidence that school closures work. Show me the evidence that lock-downs work."

In 2020, Caleb appeared in video interviews with local media outlets denouncing mask policies and school closures at San Angelo ISD.  As late as April 2021, he penned a letter demanding the school district rescind all its COVID-19 protocols, claiming that science didn't support their need.

At one point during the pandemic, the Freedom Defenders collected a list of local businesses in the San Angelo area who were asking residents to wear masks as a prerequisite for entry, information its members could use to avoid shopping at those locations.

The page belonging to the Freedom Defenders appeared to be deactivated from Facebook shortly after Caleb was hospitalized for COVID-19 ...

"We've been calling people left and right trying to find that miracle," Jessica said. "A hospital in Plano removed (Caleb) from their waiting list because he's been intubated too long. ... Without that machine, the doctors have said Caleb's chances are 'slim to none.'"

As the Wallace family continues its search for an ECMO machine, Jessica said she plans to keep fighting for Caleb, even though she isn't sure what the future will hold.

"I have three kids and a fourth on the way. To keep them strong, I remind them how much their daddy loves them and how loved they are by so many," Jessica said "I'm definitely not strong, but I have to be for my girls — I have to."

Heart-breaking stuff.

ETA: I found their Facebook page. Definitely members. Doctors have asked for a do-not-resuscitate order. So sad.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[bluebell]

24 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

A poignant story from the San Angelo [Texas] Standard-Tribune.

It appears from some of the photographs that the family are Church members:

Heart-breaking stuff.

ETA: I found their Facebook page. Definitely members. Doctors have asked for a do-not-resuscitate order. So sad.

Incredibly sad.

I saw a facebook meme (gif?) yesterday that said that no virus could end your life unless it was God's will.  THAT belief is what is keeping a lot of people from wearing masks and getting the vaccine.  They truly think their choices don't matter and that their agency can't impact their lives to that degree so they aren't worried about death.   

[bluebell]

My mom was diagnosed with covid on monday.  It started on saturday with a fever.  My dad ended up with a positive test on Wednesday.  My mom is 65 and my dad is 66.  My mom is technically overweight by BMI standards but my dad isn't.  My mom is basically healthy, no real risk factors.  My dad has type II diabetes but it's controlled with diet.

My mom was vaccinated in December and January (she's a nurse) and my dad got his done in April.

Today is Friday and they are both feeling fine.  My dad never got worse than a fever of 99.something and feeling not super great for one day.  My mom got a little bit sicker than that and has lost her taste and her smell.  But they are both already on the mend.

Vaccines make a huge difference.

[smac97]

Large CDC Study Doesn't Support Mask Mandates in Schools

Quote

According to a large study conducted by the CDC, rates of COVID transmission are no higher in schools without a mask mandate than in schools with a requirement to wear a mask.

The study, which analyzed some 90,000 elementary students in 169 Georgia schools from November 16 to December 11, found that there was no statistically significant difference in schools that required students to wear masks compared to schools where masks were optional.

“The 21% lower incidence in schools that required mask use among students was not statistically significant compared with schools where mask use was optional,” the CDC said. “This finding might be attributed to higher effectiveness of masks among adults, who are at higher risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection but might also result from differences in mask-wearing behavior among students in schools with optional requirements.”

As New York magazine’s David Zweig noted, these findings, as well as other statistically insignificant preventive measures, “cast doubt on the impact of many of the most common mitigation measures in American schools.”

 

And yet mask-wearing has become a litmus test to determine one’s political beliefs. This is a silly metric to use for political purposes and makes children extras in the adults’ political theater.

No one yet knows why children do not contract symptomatic COVID-19 as often as adults when infected with the coronavirus. It certainly doesn’t come down to whether or not six and seven year olds wear a mask.

The CDC’s findings on masks and other preventive measures would not be particularly noteworthy or controversial outside the US. As New York magazine noted, many European nations have exempted students from mask mandates—including the UK, all of Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and even France and Italy—though with varying age cutoffs. The results have not been dire.

“Conspicuously, there’s no evidence of more outbreaks in schools in those countries relative to schools in the U.S., where the solid majority of kids wore masks for an entire academic year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future,” wrote Zweig. “These countries, along with the World Health Organization, whose child-masking guidance differs substantially from the CDC’s recommendations, have explicitly recognized that the decision to mask students carries with it potential academic and social harms for children and may lack a clear benefit.”

 

Perhaps it would help end confusion about the efficacy of masks if public health officials came up with a consistent, fact-based policy on masks free of political baggage and the annoying and constant judging of those who choose not to wear a mask.

Thanks,

-Smac

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Large CDC Study Doesn't Support Mask Mandates in Schools

Thanks,

-Smac

Is this study from pre-delta, or post delta?  I didn't see where it said.

[Raingirl]

9 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Large CDC Study Doesn't Support Mask Mandates in Schools

Thanks,

-Smac

When an article characterizes mask policies as hysteria, and rants about “freedom”, we know what conclusions they’re going to reach. 

[rongo]

49 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Today is Friday and they are both feeling fine.  My dad never got worse than a fever of 99.something and feeling not super great for one day.  My mom got a little bit sicker than that and has lost her taste and her smell.  But they are both already on the mend.

Vaccines make a huge difference.

That's the experience of most people (including 5/6 in our family --- our son who returned from his mission in June hasn't had it). The ICU struggles and deaths are the focus everywhere, but the overwhelming majority of people don't have anything worse than a flu or cold. 

While vaccines minimize symptoms in some people, it's impossible to know if their symptoms would have been mild anyway without them. 

[smac97]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Is this study from pre-delta, or post delta?  I didn't see where it said.

From the linked article (within the link I provided) :

Quote

With fall approaching, many Americans are wondering whether they should send their children to school with a mask—or if they’ll even have a choice.

A recent New York magazine article states that the science on masks "remains uncertain," but noted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in May published a large-scale study of COVID transmission in US schools.

The study, which analyzed some 90,000 elementary students in 169 Georgia schools from November 16 to December 11, found that there was no statistically significant difference in schools that required students to wear masks compared to schools where masks were optional.

“The 21% lower incidence in schools that required mask use among students was not statistically significant compared with schools where mask use was optional,” the CDC said. "This finding might be attributed to higher effectiveness of masks among adults, who are at higher risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection but might also result from differences in mask-wearing behavior among students in schools with optional requirements."

As New York magazine’s David Zweig noted, these findings, as well as other statistically insignificant preventive measures, “cast doubt on the impact of many of the most common mitigation measures in American schools.”

From this article:

Quote

A major worry right now is Delta, a highly contagious SARS-CoV-2 virus strain, which was first identified in India in December. It swept rapidly through that country and Great Britain before reaching the U.S., where it is now the predominant variant. 

And here:

Quote

The rise in cases of COVID-19 among children in the U.S. is primarily linked to the Delta variant. Cases are rising especially quickly in communities with low rates of COVID-19 vaccinations.

Although the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)Trusted Source recommend universal indoor masking and physical distancing in schools, mask-wearing is optional in North Dakota and Ohio.

Rapidly increasing infection rates among children and teachers have forced many schools in the U.S. to halt in-person learning and turn to hybrid models of education. This comes despite 175 pediatric disease experts agreeing earlier this year that elementary schools could open full-time for in-person instruction.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

3 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

When an article characterizes mask policies as hysteria, and rants about “freedom”, we know what conclusions they’re going to reach. 

Sure.  I was more interested in the information about the study than the editorializing.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Duncan]

We had stake training last night went over 2 hours.........but one of the questions was what do you do if someone shows up to church unmasked? In our province it's now, again, masks in all public places, besides the prophet said to wear masks but what do you do with said member?

[Chum]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

My mom was diagnosed with covid on monday.  It started on saturday with a fever.  My dad ended up with a positive test on Wednesday.  My mom is 65 and my dad is 66.

My in-laws are 80, one in good health, one has a higher BMI. They had Covid 3 weeks ago and are largely in good order now. Vaccines do indeed work.

[rongo]

On 8/25/2021 at 9:14 AM, rongo said:

My local district where I live is considering a mask mandate tonight, but the "tea leaves" say that they will vote 4-1 to keep masking parental choice. The mandate under consideration would include a parent opt-out (non waiver), so it's essentially a symbolic act only (which is true of other district mandates, too, in my opinion). 

As far as local school boards go, there is a real chance in many places of people losing elections or being recalled over this issue, so that is in the back of politicians' minds. 

My local district voted not to impose a mask mandate in their schools. The school board wanted to, but nodded to the political realities. They voted 2-2 on a bus mandate (motion failed due to a tie) and no one would make a motion to vote on the school mandate. The superintendent and district staff recommended both, and the discussion centered around 1) a looming September 29 court-decided date where mask mandates are illegal (some districts and the universities/community colleges have gone against that law), which would make the mask mandate short-lived, 2) loss of the extra $7300 per student for districts defying the law, and 3) CDC orders (e.g., bus mandates) not being law (cf. Supreme Court overturning the CDC's eviction moratorium on grounds that the CDC doesn't have the authority to do this). 

It was a real "grab your popcorn" board meeting. Our city (recently became the largest city solely in the county) originally was exactly 50/50 last year on online/in-person school, masks, etc., but this has shifted to overwhelmingly most people favoring normalcy. The stake was also nearly 50/50 split on these issues, but it has shifted heavily in favor of normalcy. The superintendent and school board has been battered and humbled over the last few years. Originally very "woke" and anti-Mormon, they have had the backlash and terrible PR of most Mormons leaving the district, and Covid upended the "woke" agenda as financial survival and solvency set in (many districts lost millions with the shift to online school, since the online per student per diem is less than in-person). They quietly reversed course on the seminary assault after a massive Mormon turnout and call to the public when they tried to interfere with seminary (some board members called for abolishing it), but the damage was done and they lost most Mormon families (the impetus for the hostility to seminary were diversity and equity concerns because most of the valedictorians/salutatorians were and are Mormon). 

They've basically grown tired of stepping on rakes and want to just move on. They are also trying to build a second high school, but the bond failed last election. They are moving forward with the building, anyway, and hoping that a bond will pass in November (and a renewal of a budget override), but they are keenly aware that much of the public is very upset with the district, and imposing mask mandates and shifting to online would all but doom any bond prospects. Many districts and school boards are between a rock and a hard place: following their conscience on masks mandates and online school, or being recalled or voted out (or having backlash against bonds and overrides). Like they say, politics ain't beanbag . . . 

Edited August 27, 2021 by rongo

[rongo]

15 minutes ago, Duncan said:

We had stake training last night went over 2 hours.........but one of the questions was what do you do if someone shows up to church unmasked? In our province it's now, again, masks in all public places, besides the prophet said to wear masks but what do you do with said member?

What was decided/taught at the training?

I think that most people's default is "Mormon nice," and confrontations and contention over insisting on masks would be unpalatable in most LDS services. 

Mormon nice is amplified by "Canadian nice," isn't it?  

[Chum]

14 minutes ago, Duncan said:

We had stake training last night went over 2 hours.........but one of the questions was what do you do if someone shows up to church unmasked? In our province it's now, again, masks in all public places, besides the prophet said to wear masks but what do you do with said member?

In Church buildings, I'd post large photos of the Q12 & FP wearing masks, getting vaccines and other inspired examples that they're setting.

[Duncan]

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

What was decided/taught at the training?

I think that most people's default is "Mormon nice," and confrontations and contention over insisting on masks would be unpalatable in most LDS services. 

Mormon nice is amplified by "Canadian nice," isn't it?  

that was the consensus among some, others wanted to remove them , in extreme cases one person suggested calling the cops

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, rongo said:

My local district voted not to impose a mask mandate in their schools. The school board wanted to, but nodded to the political realities. They voted 2-2 on a bus mandate (motion failed due to a tie) and no one would make a motion to vote on the school mandate. The superintendent and district staff recommended both, and the discussion centered around 1) a looming September 29 court-decided date where mask mandates are illegal (some districts and the universities/community colleges have gone against that law), which would make the mask mandate short-lived, 2) loss of the extra $7300 per student for districts defying the law, and 3) CDC orders (e.g., bus mandates) not being law (cf. Supreme Court overturning the CDC's eviction moratorium on grounds that the CDC doesn't have the authority to do this). 

It was a real "grab your popcorn" board meeting. Our city (recently became the largest city solely in the county) originally was exactly 50/50 last year on online/in-person school, masks, etc., but this has shifted to overwhelmingly most people favoring normalcy. The stake was also nearly 50/50 split on these issues, but it has shifted heavily in favor of normalcy. The superintendent and school board has been battered and humbled over the last few years. Originally very "woke" and anti-Mormon, they have had the backlash and terrible PR of most Mormons leaving the district, and Covid upended the "woke" agenda as financial survival and solvency set in (many districts lost millions with the shift to online school, since the online per student per diem is less than in-person). They quietly reversed course on the seminary assault after a massive Mormon turnout and call to the public when they tried to interfere with seminary (some board members called for abolishing it), but the damage was done and they lost most Mormon families (the impetus for the hostility to seminary were diversity and equity concerns because most of the valedictorians/salutatorians were and are Mormon). 

They've basically grown tired of stepping on rakes and want to just move on. They are also trying to build a second high school, but the bond failed last election. They are moving forward with the building, anyway, and hoping that a bond will pass in November (and a renewal of a budget override), but they are keenly aware that much of the public is very upset with the district, and imposing mask mandates and shifting to online would all but doom any bond prospects. Many districts and school boards are between a rock and a hard place: following their conscience on masks mandates and online school, or being recalled or voted out (or having backlash against bonds and overrides). Like they say, politics ain't beanbag . . . 

Why use "woke" in this post. I have heard it often and finally took the time to look it up. Sounds like "woke" is a good thing. The definition other than to have woke up after sleep, is that being "woke" is seeing the injustices going on around us.

Here's this:

Woke history

Black Americans in their ongoing fight against racism and social injustice have used the term “woke” at key moments of history.

In literal terms, being woke refers to being awake and not asleep. One Urban Dictionary contributor defines woke as “being aware of the truth behind things ‘the man’ doesn’t want you to know”. Meanwhile, a concurrent definition signals a shift in meaning to “the act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue”.

The Oxford dictionary expanded its definition of the word “woke” in 2017 to add it as an adjective meaning “alert to injustice in society, especially racism”.

In the 1942 first volume of Negro Digest, J. Saunders Redding used the term in an article about labor unions. Twenty years later, a 1962 New York Times article was titled: If You’re Woke You Dig It: No mickey mouse can be expected to follow today’s Negro idiom without a hip assist.

On June 14, 1965, Martin Luther King Jr, gave a commencement address called Remaining Awake Through a Great Revolution at Oberlin College:

[Chum]

15 minutes ago, Duncan said:

that was the consensus among some, others wanted to remove them , in extreme cases one person suggested calling the cops

If one wanted a more direct approach - a pulpit announcement reminding to keep 6' away from those who are unable to mask.

clarification: I'm not likely to advocate this. Most ways of delivering this message would turn out to be hostility disguised as bureaucracy.  A bishop or stake pres who delivered it as part of inspiration, born of deep concern - that might work.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Chum

[Chum]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

Why use "woke" in this post. I have heard it often and finally took the time to look it up. Sounds like "woke" is a good thing. The definition other than to have woke up after sleep, is that being "woke" is seeing the injustices going on around us.

Here's this:

Woke history - Black Americans in their ongoing fight against racism and social injustice have used the term “woke” at key moments of history. In literal terms, being woke refers to being awake and not asleep. One Urban Dictionary contributor defines woke as “being aware of the truth behind things. The Oxford dictionary expanded its definition of the word “woke” in 2017 to add it as an adjective meaning “alert to injustice in society, especially racism”.

Animosity for the term woke arose because it means all of the above things.