Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

If my husband only was willing to be married to the woman he married and not the woman I became…divorced with 3 years rather than married tomorrow for 31 years.

Congratulations!!

[Peacefully]

22 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Congratulations!!

I second that! Congrats, Calm:)

Edited August 20, 2021 by Peacefully

[Calm]

Yes, I am very pleased that for once I am the one who remembered and I thank Smac for the thought, lol.

[bsjkki]

Congratulations!!! I had my 31st anniversary a few weeks ago. 1990 seems a long time ago. 😁

[Calm]

I blame the fact I was half asleep. Make that 41 years,  laughing my head off now for being so proud I remembered. 

[Rain]

Continuing with covid info in medical practices: in the ER with a ministering sister.  I wasn't sure they would let me come in, but they did.  Everyone wearing masks.  They took her temp and have asked covid symptoms at least twice.  (She's here for something else).  They didn't take my temp or ask me symptoms.

[pogi]

12 hours ago, smac97 said:

Back to Lindsay's article:

I like this approach.  Persuasion and information and encouragement.  

From Lindsay:

 

Quote

 

The gist of the First Presidency Statement was simple and reasonable: "To limit exposure to these viruses, we urge the use of face masks in public meetings whenever social distancing is not possible. To provide personal protection from such severe infections, we urge individuals to be vaccinated." So in public meetings, if people will necessarily be very close to each other, our leaders will urge masking. Individuals are urged to be vaccinated for their own protection. This is really just asking us to reduce risk appropriately. In fact, with the currently increase in cases and hospitalizations in many parts of the country, this may be the right time to increase our guard for a while. I hope it's a brief period, but let's be patient and faithful through this. 

The First Presidency's short, positive message should not be interpreted to override the personal health issues that may make vaccines or even mask wearing inappropriate for some, including infants and young children, pregnant women, those with certain heart or kidney conditions, some with severe asthma or other respiratory problems, those with certain allergies or skin conditions, etc. See the WHO's guidelines on who should be vaccinated (I apologize if this WHO document does not align with some CDC guidelines or government goals pushing for vaccination of teenagers and ultimately younger children). In any case, it's still your choice, something that may be discussed between you and your doctor but not with the whole ward, and personally I believe that we should respect the medical privacy of others in this matter.

 

If this is persuasive, it is less about what he is saying and more about who he is.  Social influence can be powerful.  The more people who believe like you, look like you, and vote like you, who publicly back vaccines and masks, the more persuasive that will be for you.   So in that way, if enough people back this, it can be persuasive and lead to social influence.  But what he is actually saying doesn't address any of the issues that people are voicing concerns about with vaccine hesitancy or mask reluctance, including mistrust in the government, fear over side effects, wanting to "wait and see", and disbelief that masks work, along with political persuasions of news/radio personalities leading one to resist masking.  All he is really saying is, look, the first presidency asked us to do it, and keep in mind that it is not mandated, but just encouraged, so lets just do it (after speaking to your medical provider if you have any concerns) and hope it is for a short time.  If the first presidency and several apostles can't convince people to get vaccinated and mask, I don't see how this is going to persuade anyone, honestly.  But maybe if there are enough voices, people might eventually give in.     

Some things he is saying is flat out wrong and dangerously misleading though, and needs to be corrected:

Quote

The First Presidency's short, positive message should not be interpreted to override the personal health issues that may make vaccines or even mask wearing inappropriate for some, including infants and young children, pregnant women, those with certain heart or kidney conditions, some with severe asthma or other respiratory problems, those with certain allergies or skin conditions, etc.

Yikes!

Here is what the WHO article ACTUALLY says about these conditions:

Quote

The COVID-19 vaccines are safe for most people 18 years and older, including those with pre-existing conditions of any kind, including auto-immune disorders. These conditions include: hypertension, diabetes, asthma, pulmonary, liver and kidney disease, as well as chronic infections that are stable and controlled. 

It further states:

Quote

 

If supplies are limited in your area, discuss your situation with your care provider if you:

• Have a compromised immune system
• Are pregnant (if you are already breastfeeding, you should continue after vaccination) 
• Have a history of severe allergies, particularly to a vaccine (or any of the ingredients in the vaccine)
• Are severely frail 

 

"If supplies are limited", the first priority will be to vaccinate those who are pregnant and have compromised immune systems, asthma or other severe respiratory issues.  What he is saying is really, really wrong. 

If you are pregnant or have a compromised immune system, disregard what Lindsay said...please get vaccinated!  You and your fetus are at much higher risk for severe Covid and death - same with those who are immunocompromised.  These people are top priority in a vaccine shortage.

Talk to your doctor (as the WHO article states) if you have certain allergies or are severely frail, you may or may not be a priority for vaccination depending on your specific condition.   Allergies is the only thing listed that may be a contraindication to vaccine.  The others may make the person first priority.  

"Skin conditions"???  I have no idea what he is talking about.  That is no contraindication to vaccination and is not even mentioned in the WHO article he is referencing.  He is just adding random stuff himself.

I appreciate his intent and his added voice of influence.  But it would be best if lay people not give out medical advice online.  

•  

Edited August 20, 2021 by pogi

[Hamba Tuhan]

28 minutes ago, Rain said:

They didn't take my temp or ask me symptoms.

Interesting.

I bought a new fridge, which was delivered yesterday. In an email, I was asked to verify if I had any COVID symptoms, had been to any known exposure sites, or was under any quarantine orders. A text yesterday morning asked me the same questions. Half an hour before delivery, the driver rang to re-ask all those same questions.

When the they arrived, the driver and his assistant did all the unboxing/unpacking in the drive, quickly wheeled the new fridge in, left the invoice on top of it, quickly wheeled the old fridge out, and left. They were both wearing masks and sanitised their hands before touching the fridge. I wasn't asked to wear a mask, but I did so anyway out of consideration for them.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Can you imagine how much more complicated series of interactions and changes God must deal with?  I wonder if he ever complains about shifting goalposts.

The scientific view of what viruses are changed a lot over the years.  This is from 2008, so likely out of date in some ways but has the interesting history of change:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/

Don't eat the fruit - but really I want you to.

If you eat the fruit you will die in the day you eat of it - ok, fine, I will prolong your life so that you can repent. 

Eat of whatever you want. Later; don't eat any pork or blood, but hot drinks and alcohol are ok.  Even later; some sorry, no hot drinks or alcohol, but pork is back on the menu! 

You can have many wives.  Later; no, only one wife.  Later still; ok we have restored the many wives thing again. - Later still; nope, back to one wife. 

Pay a tithing - later; have everything in common and live the law of consecration - later, ok that didn't work, back to tithing. 

Sure, black people can have the priesthood.  Later; Nope, not any more.  Later still; ok fine, black people can have the priesthood again. 

I could go on, but I think we get the point...

Even with God, the goal post is constantly changing, so should we really expect our medical experts to be better than God?  This virus seems to be even less predictable than humans, so lets give our medical experts some slack and respect. 

  

 

 

 

[Calm]

Nehor, Nehor, Nehor…whatever led you to say this on December 17, 2019?  Do you have an inside contact in China?

Quote

If someone started a nonprofit organization to stockpile medicine or supplies for a possible pandemic would you judge them a failure if they spent nothing because there was no pandemic that year. You could call it unwise but it is not dishonest or illegal.

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/72484-whistleblower-on-church-finances/?do=findComment&comment=1209947334

 

[bsjkki]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-probing-moderna-vaccine-increased-heart-inflammation-risk-washington-post-2021-08-20/
 

 

[Ipod Touch]

Looks like Obama's maskless birthday party, with its "sophisticated, vaccinated crowd", was a super-spreader event.  Well done, Barack.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9912597/Marthas-Vineyard-Hospital-bears-brunt-Covid-spike-two-weeks-Obama-birthday-party.html

Edited August 21, 2021 by Ipod Touch

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Ipod Touch said:

Looks like Obama's maskless birthday party, with its "sophisticated, vaccinated crowd", was a super-spreader event.  Well done, Barack.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9912597/Marthas-Vineyard-Hospital-bears-brunt-Covid-spike-two-weeks-Obama-birthday-party.html

 

Quote

 

We still have contact tracing going on, but I think if there were cases popping up from the party we'd be seeing them already,' she added. 

She said there may be a chance health authorities could start seeing cases emerge from the celebration, but added that it is unlikely at this point.  

 

Can you explain to me how you can tell it was Obama’s party when apparently the contact tracers can’t?

It is not like that was the only event happening there during the likely time period. 

[bsjkki]

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098
 

Edited August 21, 2021 by bsjkki

[Calm]

So natural immunity for breadth and vaccine for depth perhaps. 
 

I wonder if this explains the comparable viral loads of the vaccinated.  Are there any studies comparing those who have tested positive for Covid vs vaccinated?

Edited August 21, 2021 by Calm

[bsjkki]

35 minutes ago, Calm said:

So natural immunity for breadth and vaccine for depth perhaps. 
 

I wonder if this explains the comparable viral loads of the vaccinated.  Are there any studies comparing those who have tested positive for Covid vs vaccinated?

I’ve been looking for those numbers and they are hard to find.

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I’ve been looking for those numbers and they are hard to find.

You know all your efforts have led me to be pretty lazy about researching lately. I keep thinking bsjkki will find anything interesting. 

[Chum]

On 8/19/2021 at 7:55 PM, Calm said:

If my husband only was willing to be married to the woman he married and not the woman I became…divorced with 3 years rather than married tomorrow for 31, make that 41 years.

I wonder about stuff like this. In a sense it wasn't fair to my ex. We were both fairly screwed up to begin with but I shed a lot of my destructive behavior. I sort of broke the bargain that brought us together.

Of course none of this crossed my mind this afternoon, while I was bailing her out on a domestic violence charge.

[bsjkki]

Ventilation and better masks. https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/study-supports-widespread-use-better-masks-curb-covid-19

[Calm]

1 minute ago, Chum said:

course none of this crossed my mind this afternoon, while I was bailing her out on a domestic violence charge.

I guess everyone has their own set of hardships they get used to, develop coping skills for.  I have had many people ask “how can you live with all this” while to me it feels more like my life is just cluttered with minor issues I need to work on to prevent them piling all up at the same time.  It’s a balancing act and most of the time I think no big deal, especially when I hear others’ stories and think I could never endure that in my life…I guess because I feel I have some level of control and ability to predict when it comes to my health issues by now, but have so often felt like with my more difficult relationships I have little understanding of or influence on them, especially when the pattern is they will beg for help and then reject it so I shouldn’t overcommit.

All to say I admire you for not giving up and cutting the ties to protect yourself.

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

All to say I admire you for not giving up and cutting the ties to protect yourself.

You might want to dial back the admiration because that's what I'm preparing to do.  The whole trip back from the jail was a litany of how we all failed her; she has no memory of me raising the boys by myself while caring for her. All time with her is some variation of that.

sidebar: I arranged all our births, one was at home, two at midwife's & last at hospital (because twins but I found an all F OB/GYN practice). I did all the mommy stuff short of nursing - eg: diapers, cubs, lunches, school stuff, Church, etc. 

Recently I shared multiple tax returns with her. It was enough for her to get her license back and get into her own place. I took her to the DMV and got that part 90% done. However, within a week she had spent the rest of the pot on nothing at all. I had hoped to have her set up somewhere and then we'd go our own ways while keeping in touch.

But this might all be me acting out the Good Guy fantasy. Regardless I had a hard stop for all this at the end of the year but I might not make it that long.

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, Chum said:

You might want to dial back the admiration because that's what I'm preparing to do

As long as it is a conscious choice, I see no reason to change my mind. This is different than the panicked I can’t breathe response I was getting at times with my mom and having to get talked down by my husband…though there is nothing wrong with reacting that way at first, it is just painful. I am not ashamed of it. I needed help to help her, but I did it to the best that she would let me do it. 
 

Your posts have always shown an attempt to be realistic about the situation. Sometimes support moves into enabling. When you learn that it is going there, the compassionate choice is often to step away.  I had to do that to get her to move into assisted living. Since she had done the same to her mom and my dad’s parents, it seemed rather fitting. 
 

Really hoping it is not repeated in me though. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Calm

[smac97]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/i-was-wrong-nurses-tell-of-the-regrets-of-dying-unvaccinated-patients/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Calm]

33 minutes ago, smac97 said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/i-was-wrong-nurses-tell-of-the-regrets-of-dying-unvaccinated-patients/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Quote

I don’t know if people know what a person looks like when they’re like a fish out of water. Their eyes bulge out of their sockets as they try to get more oxygen, but oxygen won’t come in,” Shem-Ad says in an attempt to describe the suffering of severe coronavirus patients.

“I lose two patients in a shift on average…They get up to go to the bathroom feeling they’re ready to go home and suddenly their lungs collapse and they have no air,” she says.

I have had a few times when I have been at higher altitudes and felt like I was not getting enough air as well as a few all out panic attacks.  I keep a pulse oximeter around to reassure me nothing is actually wrong if the anxiety starts to tighten my chest (I was getting some bad stuff with my mom due to her refusal to live with me and my family not realizing her dementia was as bad as it was). 
 

So really not being being able to breath, having one’s chest burn and ache trying to pull in the oxygen seems to me one of the worse ways to go.  

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/i-was-wrong-nurses-tell-of-the-regrets-of-dying-unvaccinated-patients/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

A very close mate of mine (who took the missionary lessons in my home), only in his 30s, is currently very ill and possibly facing an early death. Three nights last week he asked me to video-chat with him to help him calm down enough to sleep. On the last night, we started talking about death. He asked me my preferred way to go. I said I wasn't sure, but I would hate to suffocate in any way (including drowning and python).

I think the only thing that could make it worse for me would be knowing that I could have prevented the whole thing if only I had listened to the right voices -- including prophets, in my case.