Netflix- messiah

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

I had some experiences as a child that made cussing pretty repellant.  When I went into the Army, I remember having to make the conscious choice to not swear, since it was an integral part of the daily lexicon around me.  Then I went on a mission, and not swearing was the easiest thing in the world.  Then I married a wonderful, gentle, and genteel woman who has never sworn in her life.  This progression has helped me with not developing a swearing habit.

Also, on my mission in Taiwan I quickly learned a term that I found hilarious:

This word was often used as exclamation, and with gusto, by missionaries.  For stubbed toe, a missed appointment, a dropped plate, you name it.

Then I found out what it literally means:

I thought that was hilarious.  It's meaning is innocuous and it's a fun to say.  The "z" is hard, like a "dz" sound.  The "g" is also hard (as in "guard").  The "ao" in both syllables is like the "ow" is "how."  Here's a recording of how to pronounce it (click on the microphone icon under the Chinese characters).

So zāogāo is my go-to exclamation for when I am exasperated or irritated.

Another absurd one comes from an experience I had with my wife and kids.  One evening we were watching an episode of Planet Earth (with David Attenborough).  After the episode there was a brief "making of" documentary that included footage of a cameraman who had been taken up into the air in a strange contraption that was a cross between a hot air baloon with a propeller-powered paraglider.  The cameraman was a tall, lanky Brit, and the pilot of the contraption was French, so they could not communicate well.  The documentary included footage capturing the moment when the contraption lost power and the whole thing crashed into the branches of a high tree.  Just as they hit, the Brit shouted "Oh my giddy aunt!"  

My kids were rolling on the floor laughing.  It was quite a funny thing to hear.  

So my kids now alternate between Zāogāo and Oh My Giddy Aunt! as their go-to exclamations.  I get that they are perhaps "minced oaths," but oh well.

Yiddish also has some utility.  "Kvetch" is fun to say (as in "Stop kvetching about your chores, son, and just do them").

I dunno.  Some of my favorite "gritty" movies are older ones, like Bridge on the River Kwai, The Guns of Navarone, The Great Escape, and The Longest Day.  The swearing/profanity in these were quite tame, and yet the stories are still powerfully told.

Thanks,

-Smac

In 48 years of marriage I have never heard Sister Gui use profanity. And we have had plenty of situations where she could have let it fly. She is able to express herself really well without it. It is a trait, among many others, that I greatly admire in her. I never heard her parents use profanity.
 

Profanity was not a feature in my childhood home and extended family, and my dad was a WW2 soldier. He had enough respect for my mother, sisters, and I to refrain. When he joined the Church, it became foreign to his character. I had to learn it from friends. Regrettably, it was not an easy habit to overcome when it came time to serve the Lord on a mission. I don’t enjoy being around folks who use it.

When we were first married, we made the decision not to have a TV in our home. It was amazing how many used TVs were placed on our porch by well-meaning friends who thought we couldn’t afford one. Well, we couldn’t, but that was not our reason.That lasted for about 10 years until our kids got old enough to sneak over to friends’ homes to watch. We were shocked by the inappropriate stuff that was on the screen, and that was in the early 80s! Sadly, we have acclimatized.

My favorite go-to word is “Ohanapecosh,” a beautiful river and campground at Mt Rainier. It’s a Cowlitz word meaning “standing at the edge.” Makes it a little edgy, I suppose. Said with a certain inflection, it can sound very, very naughty.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yeah, I get it. Cussing is salutary, but thanks, not debunked for me.

How so?  You truly believe that cursing is a sign of lower socio-intellectual status or proficiency with vocabulary and expression?  This is known as the poverty-of-vocabulary hypotheses (POV) and studies show it just isn't true. 

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

They have no power.

In and of themselves, correct - that was my point.  It is not the words themselves that hold power, it is our perceptions of them. They can actually elicit a measurable physiological response.  They can generate greater anxiety, and on the opposite extreme, they are proven to increase pain tolerance and act as a physiological relief in ways that other words don't.  Happy Jack, has experienced this first hand while cursing out loud in the car.   

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Waiting for the obligatory f and sh in a movie or tv series would be an amusing beer pong game. Ginger beer, of course. I disagree that they can be used to great effect. I don’t think a work would be diminished without them. Well, maybe Planet of the Apes.

Because many shows use them poorly says more about the writer than the words themselves. 

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

To me they are the epitome of puerile discourse that I listened to for 42 years in the public schools. There’s nothing “adult” about them, like “Hey! You’re a kid! You don’t get to talk like adults! Grow up and then you can say f and sh as much as you want!“ Seriously? But of course that is my opinion. I’m not ashamed to dig in my heels on this, though.😉 

Maybe that is your problem, you are judging a word by how puerile teenagers use it.  Words are tools.  We shouldn't judge a tool by how it is used by inexperienced, immature hands.  That is like saying, the violin is an ugly instrument, I know because I listened to it for 42 years being played by untrained hands. Like musical instruments, curse words can be painful to endure their abuse by an inexperienced novice, or they can be powerful and moving forms of expression in the hands of a gifted artist.  Perhaps if you mingled around highly intelligent and masterful artists of language who are good at using swear words tastefully, you might have a different opinion of swear words and how they can be utilized to great effect in both poetry and prose, making for engaging story telling.  Sometimes, other words simply fall short. 

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

...but eventually we’ll run out of shock words. Maybe that will be a good thing. Bring them on! 😀

Edited January 10, 2020 by pogi

[Bernard Gui]

Hey! Watch it! I’m a professional violinist! 😉

Gifted and intelligent artistry in profanity? Like those strings of fs and shs in a tv series? I’m not associating with the really adept profaners? Not my problem. But maybe you are right, though. Perhaps I just don’t hang around with really smart  profaners. I can see how it changes it’s nature coming from the right mouths.  Need to read more and watch more adult television. I‘ll see what I can do to remedy that. Maybe next year in the afternoon.

I find it interesting that I express a fairly traditional and conventional LDS view on profanity and entertainment and get blowback from my fellow Saints. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Teancum]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

That seems very odd to me, that the adults you know believe that the only reason not to swear would be religious constraints.  Do these people, that have no religious constraints on their language, normally swear when speaking to their parents, grandparents, neighbors, co-workers, customer service people, waiters, sales people, etc?

Maybe that is my on bias. I work with many Catholics and some who participate but who swear almost like my Marine son. Maybe other faiths don't have the same emphasis?

[pogi]

23 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Hey! Watch it! I’m a professional violinist! 😉

 

I know, that was intentional.  I almost typed "guitar", then remembered that you are a violinist 

23 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Gifted and intelligent artistry in profanity? Like those strings of fs and shs in a tv series? 

Pop culture and tv probably isn't the best place to find it.  I wouldn't say they are artists in profanity as much as they are artists of language and expression.  Speaking to a fellow musician, this illustration might help - the gifted linguist will use profanity to accent their work like a gifted musician will use diminished triads to create dissonance in building up to a triumphant dominant and harmonic release.  They accent a piece to add tension - they are not the focus.  Being around puerile teenagers all day is like listening to nothing but dissonant music all day long.  It grates on the senses.  The same is true with much of popular tv and entertainment. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by pogi

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Maybe that is my on bias. I work with many Catholics and some who participate but who swear almost like my Marine son. Maybe other faiths don't have the same emphasis?

I'm more interested in the idea that atheists don't believe in constraints when it comes to swearing.  That only people with religious constraints try not to swear (maybe I misunderstood what you were saying though).

[Bernard Gui]

13 minutes ago, pogi said:

I know, that was intentional.  I almost typed "guitar", then remembered that you are a violinist 

Pop culture and tv probably isn't the best place to find it.  I wouldn't say they are artists in profanity as much as they are artists of language and expression.  Speaking to a fellow musician, this illustration might help - the gifted linguist will use profanity to accent their work like a gifted musician will use diminished triads to create dissonance in building up to a triumphant dominant and harmonic release.  They accent a piece to add tension - they are not the focus.  Being around puerile teenagers all day is like listening to nothing but dissonant music all day long.  It grates on the senses.  The same is true with much of popular tv and entertainment. 

I see your point, but must disagree. Playing a series of augmented 4ths and 7ths is not the same as a string of mfs and shs in a movie or a book. Dissonance is not degrading or insulting nor is it meant to hurt some else. I can’t imagine saying to your teacher, “minor second, minor second, minor second, you diminished minor seventh chord!” Now that would be a stroke of writing genius. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[HappyJackWagon]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I see your point, but must disagree. Playing a series of augmented 4ths and 7ths is not the same as a string of mfs and shs in a movie or a book. 

It's all in the ear of the beholder  

[california boy]

39 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Hey! Watch it! I’m a professional violinist! 😉

Gifted and intelligent artistry in profanity? Like those strings of fs and shs in a tv series? I’m not associating with the really adept profaners? Not my problem. But maybe you are right, though. Perhaps I just don’t hang around with really smart  profaners. I can see how it changes it’s nature coming from the right mouths.  Need to read more and watch more adult television. I‘ll see what I can do to remedy that. Maybe next year in the afternoon.

I find it interesting that I express a fairly traditional and conventional LDS view on profanity and entertainment and get blowback from my fellow Saints. 

I don't think you are getting blowback from fellow Saints concerning profanity.  I think you are getting blowback for being so curt and judgmental about a film  you haven't seen that has tremendous insights, but dismiss it out of hand because of the language of some of the characters.  "If it has any profanity, then it is not worth watching" may actually not be true.  There are just too many great films and books that can't be dismissed by that single litmus test.

[Bernard Gui]

14 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's all in the ear of the beholder  

Hmmmm. 

[Bernard Gui]

3 minutes ago, california boy said:

I don't think you are getting blowback from fellow Saints concerning profanity.  I think you are getting blowback for being so curt and judgmental about a film  you haven't seen that has tremendous insights, but dismiss it out of hand because of the language of some of the characters.  "If it has any profanity, then it is not worth watching" may actually not be true.  There are just too many great films and books that can't be dismissed by that single litmus test.

CB. Did you not read that I have been watching Messiah? Not anymore. I can’t take something seriously that purports to be consequential when I’m distracted by and laughing at the predictable and obligatorily foul dialogue. I have no obligation to watch it nor to refrain from criticizing its profanity just because you think it has some sort of “tremendous” insight. Lots of things give tremendous insights without profanity. I see no reason to say it is better because some characters spew streams of fs and shs. I think it would be better without them. You don’t. We’ll have to disagree. 

[pogi]

 

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Playing a series of augmented 4ths and 7ths is not the same as a string of mfs and shs in a movie or a book. 

Actually that is exactly what it is like...or can be like anyway when done properly using emotionally charged structure and words.  It has to be done tastefully though, it can be over-the-top (and I guess that is entirely subjective like with music)  It can serve the exact same purpose of feeling and expression - accentuating the consonant by leading in with the dissonant.   More often than not though, it is just shoddy writing. 

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Dissonance is not degrading or insulting nor is it meant to hurt some else.

I would personally find a concert of dissonant music, void of any consonance, to be degrading and insulting to my senses, and intentional meant to make me uncomfortable.

The fact that it can be used to hurt other people, makes it that much more of a powerful tool in story telling.  It exposes deep hurt in a way that nothing else can.  For example, it can accentuate powerful dissonance in broken a relationship between a father and son, making the consonant release and reconciliation/forgiveness that much more rewarding to see.  You can't have the sweet without the bitter according to the BOM.  The lows make the highs that much better.  Screaming is another tool to serve the same purpose. It can be overused and grate on the senses, or it can be masterfully used in developing dynamics. 

I'm not harping on you for not liking it.  I am just expressing that it can be artistic and effectively used in story telling. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by pogi

[Bernard Gui]

17 hours ago, pogi said:

 

Actually that is exactly what it is like...or can be like anyway when done properly using emotionally charged structure and words.  It has to be done tastefully though, it can be over-the-top (and I guess that is entirely subjective like with music)  It can serve the exact same purpose of feeling and expression - accentuating the consonant by leading in with the dissonant.   More often than not though, it is just shoddy writing. 

I would personally find a concert of dissonant music, void of any consonance, to be degrading and insulting to my senses, and intentional meant to make me uncomfortable.

The fact that it can be used to hurt other people, makes it that much more of a powerful tool in story telling.  It exposes deep hurt in a way that nothing else can.  For example, it can accentuate powerful dissonance in broken a relationship between a father and son, making the consonant release and reconciliation/forgiveness that much more rewarding to see.  You can't have the sweet without the bitter according to the BOM.  The lows make the highs that much better.  Screaming is another tool to serve the same purpose. It can be overused and grate on the senses, or it can be masterfully used in developing dynamics. 

I'm not harping on you for not liking it.  I am just expressing that it can be artistic and effectively used in story telling. 

Tasteful vulgarity. Interesting concept. Would you say that strings of fs and shs in various languages in Messiah are artistic and effective? 

Directing a series of dissonances at a person is not comparable to yelling profanities at them. I don’t agree with your musical analogy, so I guess we’ll have to let that go. 

Extremely foul language in a movie is easy to deal with. Don’t watch it. I am concerned about its growing acceptance in our culture and the deleterious influence it has on our human relationships. When mfr, et al., become common parlance even with little children and angry chants of fu permeate our individual and social discourse then we have a problem. It’s discouraging to hear some of my brothers and sisters in the gospel defending it and calling me out for opposing it. At least that’s the way I see it.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[poptart]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

In 48 years of marriage I have never heard Sister Gui use profanity. And we have had plenty of situations where she could have let it fly. She is able to express herself really well without it. It is a trait, among many others, that I greatly admire in her. I never heard her parents use profanity.
 

Profanity was not a feature in my childhood home and extended family, and my dad was a WW2 soldier. He had enough respect for my mother, sisters, and I to refrain. When he joined the Church, it became foreign to his character. I had to learn it from friends. Regrettably, it was not an easy habit to overcome when it came time to serve the Lord on a mission. I don’t enjoy being around folks who use it.

When we were first married, we made the decision not to have a TV in our home. It was amazing how many used TVs were placed on our porch by well-meaning friends who thought we couldn’t afford one. Well, we couldn’t, but that was not our reason.That lasted for about 10 years until our kids got old enough to sneak over to friends’ homes to watch. We were shocked by the inappropriate stuff that was on the screen, and that was in the early 80s! Sadly, we have acclimatized.

My favorite go-to word is “Ohanapecosh,” a beautiful river and campground at Mt Rainier. It’s a Cowlitz word meaning “standing at the edge.” Makes it a little edgy, I suppose. Said with a certain inflection, it can sound very, very naughty.

Was your mom a member before he converted?

[Meadowchik]

 

 

27 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Extremely foul language in a movie is easy to deal with. Don’t watch it. I am concerned about its growing acceptance in our culture and the deleterious influence it has on our human relationships. When mfr, et al., become common parlance even with little children and angry chants of fu permeate our individual and social discourse then we have a problem. It’s discouraging to hear some of my brothers and sisters in the gospel defending it and calling me out for opposing it. At least that’s the way I see it.

 

 

I used to shut out speech that included profanity. I don't so much anymore, I just shut out unwanted noises generally if I can. But I've been surprised at the meanings I do hear in conversations including profanity. Such messages can be quite good and insightful, as much so with profanities as without. 

Vulgar vocabulary can be lazy, but then it can be part of cultural dialect that signals belonging, morally neutral.

I am more concerned about thought-stopping attitudes. Those come before speech and do more to separate human beings from grace than foul language ever can.

[Metis_LDS]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

When we were first married, we made the decision not to have a TV in our home. It was amazing how many used TVs were placed on our porch by well-meaning friends who thought we couldn’t afford one. Well, we couldn’t, but that was not our reason.That lasted for about 10 years until our kids got old enough to sneak over to friends’ homes to watch. We were shocked by the inappropriate stuff that was on the screen, and that was in the early 80s! Sadly, we have acclimatized.

We had the same experience.  What I find interesting now is that all our children have televisions (not computer monitors they have those also) they never watch "TV" on their televisions.  They play games (widescreen) and watch YouTube videos.  They never watch tv programs of any kind.  I am not saying this is good but it is a huge change.  

[BlueDreams]

19 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

In 48 years of marriage I have never heard Sister Gui use profanity. And we have had plenty of situations where she could have let it fly. She is able to express herself really well without it. It is a trait, among many others, that I greatly admire in her. I never heard her parents use profanity.

Yeah I definitely can’t say that. I let a solid f-bomb rip somewhere in the midst of my homebirth. I still joke that birth is the one sacred experience that people don’t blink when you scream profanities. 
Over the years i’ve had differing experiences with cussing. When i was an angsty teen and angry at the world i cussed a LOT. All my friends did too. It symbolized all that was wrong in my life at the time and my own misery. So when i was working on becoming better and happier cussing needed to go. By my mish i never cussed. 

then I hit my master’s program at BYU no less. Peers from time to time cussed. Professors cussed here and there. And we discussed the advantages and disadvantages of it. In therapy i need people’s emotions out and in UT, where people are often suuuuuper sweet  and respectful and rarely slip a mean thing, their words and vocabulary often could keep them from acknowledging just how wrong a situation was. (Ps...being that kind all the time has another cultural disadvantage of sometimes being very passive aggressive). So I’d throw in a choice description of the Situation, person, problem to encourage them to own their pains and anger. By that point I cussed in my life. I even cussed in my prayers when i hurt so bad that it was the best description of my shock and pain. But often as just a description of something. Or even playfully from time to time, though, i’m more likely to use replacers like “shiz.” The only time I feel bad about it is when i can feel it tying to my teenage self where it’s just mean or attacking at the world, which is extremely rare at this point in my life as I’m genuinely a pretty happy person. 
 

cussing CAN be lazy or uncouth or uncalled for. But it can also be multidimensional and useful and even right IMHO. 
 

with luv,

BD 
 

[Bernard Gui]

11 hours ago, poptart said:

Was your mom a member before he converted?

My mother was born in the LDS colonies in southern Colorado. She met my non-member dad in Los Alamos NM during WW 2. He was a soldier and she was a civilian worker. He joined the Church when I was about 11.

[Bernard Gui]

13 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

Yeah I definitely can’t say that. I let a solid f-bomb rip somewhere in the midst of my homebirth. I still joke that birth is the one sacred experience that people don’t blink when you scream profanities. 
Over the years i’ve had differing experiences with cussing. When i was an angsty teen and angry at the world i cussed a LOT. All my friends did too. It symbolized all that was wrong in my life at the time and my own misery. So when i was working on becoming better and happier cussing needed to go. By my mish i never cussed. 

then I hit my master’s program at BYU no less. Peers from time to time cussed. Professors cussed here and there. And we discussed the advantages and disadvantages of it. In therapy i need people’s emotions out and in UT, where people are often suuuuuper sweet  and respectful and rarely slip a mean thing, their words and vocabulary often could keep them from acknowledging just how wrong a situation was. (Ps...being that kind all the time has another cultural disadvantage of sometimes being very passive aggressive). So I’d throw in a choice description of the Situation, person, problem to encourage them to own their pains and anger. By that point I cussed in my life. I even cussed in my prayers when i hurt so bad that it was the best description of my shock and pain. But often as just a description of something. Or even playfully from time to time, though, i’m more likely to use replacers like “shiz.” The only time I feel bad about it is when i can feel it tying to my teenage self where it’s just mean or attacking at the world, which is extremely rare at this point in my life as I’m genuinely a pretty happy person. 
 

cussing CAN be lazy or uncouth or uncalled for. But it can also be multidimensional and useful and even right IMHO. 
 

with luv,

BD 
 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

We had the same experience.  What I find interesting now is that all our children have televisions (not computer monitors they have those also) they never watch "TV" on their televisions.  They play games (widescreen) and watch YouTube videos.  They never watch tv programs of any kind.  I am not saying this is good but it is a huge change.  

Most of our kids are doing the same! 

[Teancum]

21 hours ago, bluebell said:

I'm more interested in the idea that atheists don't believe in constraints when it comes to swearing.  That only people with religious constraints try not to swear (maybe I misunderstood what you were saying though).

I never said atheist I said people who are not religious. Then in my response to you I said my statement was probably now accurate and reflected my own bias.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

On 1/10/2020 at 1:11 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Speaking out against foul language is not “sanitizing the world.” It’s pointing out the obvious. Good criticism involves judgement and discernment. I criticize the ubiquity of foul language in our culture, especially our pop culture “entertainment” because it foments disrespect, debases our communications, sullies our spirit, and decreases our humanity.

It can but doesn’t have to. Since leaving the church I’ve explored language a lot. I’ve found that using profanity can also strengthen relationships, provide comic relief, and express strong emotion in a way that is powerfully moving. 

On 1/10/2020 at 1:11 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Today a child in Sister Gui’s kindergarten class called another boy a “mfr.” Another boy spit in her para’s face. Kids have called her and her para “stupid bchs”and “ahles.” Five years old. You maintain this is how everyone talks? This is good? Who wants to live in this kind of environment?

I would imagine no one. This is one use of profanity. But it doesn’t take profanity to disrespect others, and put others down. And it is the disrespect that is wrong, not the language. 

On 1/10/2020 at 1:11 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Yes, use of foul language is a nasty habit that is difficult to overcome. I know from experience. Yes, we have become desensitized to it by pop culture. Look around at what we call entertainment. Yes, it is the first resort of bad writing. Can’t think of a way to express shock or fear?

The idea that profanity shows some lack or deficiency in language has been debunked. 

On 1/10/2020 at 1:11 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Just throw in a string of fs  and shs. Easy solution. Yes, it spoils many an otherwise good production. Yes, it is gratuitous. Yes, it has lost its shock value. Yes, it can get you suspended from school or fired from a job. Yes, it offends listeners. Yes, it lessens the user’s character and credibility. Yes, it is juvenile communication. Yes, the Savior and his prophets warn against it.

No, it is neither mature nor adult. There is nothing adult about it.  It is simply puerile. 
 

Yet you admit to never using it yourself. I wonder how can you know? If all you experience is juvenile mouthing off, how do you know?

On 1/10/2020 at 1:11 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Defend it if you wish.

With pleasure. 

[california boy]

22 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

CB. Did you not read that I have been watching Messiah? Not anymore. I can’t take something seriously that purports to be consequential when I’m distracted by and laughing at the predictable and obligatorily foul dialogue. I have no obligation to watch it nor to refrain from criticizing its profanity just because you think it has some sort of “tremendous” insight. Lots of things give tremendous insights without profanity. I see no reason to say it is better because some characters spew streams of fs and shs. I think it would be better without them. You don’t. We’ll have to disagree. 

I think you missed my point.  And I did understand you started to watch Messiah but decided not to because of the profanity.  Of course you can choose what you watch and what you find to offensive to watch.  I was just giving my opinion about the weight profanity played in what I choose to watch.  Profanity is not instantly a deal breaker for me.  I find it a minor importance unless it is just all the writer has to say.  

I think the Messiah has some provocative ideas that I find worth exploring that far outweighs the negative part the swearing brings in.  And in fact, I understand why some characters swear.  It tells us something about their character and the darkness that is in their lives.  Even so, the Messiah still reaches out to them the same as he does the most righteous of followers.  So for me, the swearing plays a part in the story being told.  You miss all of that simply because you dismiss anything that has swearing in it. I am not criticizing you for making that choice.  What I am doing is explaining why I made the choice I make, not only in this film bot all films that I watch.

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It can but doesn’t have to. Since leaving the church I’ve explored language a lot. I’ve found that using profanity can also strengthen relationships, provide comic relief, and express strong emotion in a way that is powerfully moving. 

I would imagine no one. This is one use of profanity. But it doesn’t take profanity to disrespect others, and put others down. And it is the disrespect that is wrong, not the language. 

The idea that profanity shows some lack or deficiency in language has been debunked. 
 

Language is a key proponent in expressing respect and  disrespect. For example five year olds calling their teachers dumb-as, stupid bchs, and ahls. In my experience it has not been debunked. Call me a science denier. The Savior and his prophets have warned us against it. I try to do what I can to follow them by repenting of any temptation to use profanity just like any other weakness. 

Quote

Yet you admit to never using it yourself. I wonder how can you know? If all you experience is juvenile mouthing off, how do you know?

Where do I admit that? I have stated twice that I used profanity as a youth (despite a positive example set by my parents) and found it a difficult habit to break before I served a mission so I know. It is still occasionally a struggle to refrain, but nothing like it was back then when I took measures to stop the habit  I don’t feel the need to get drunk to judge that it is not god for me.

Good luck on your explorations. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Language is a key proponent in expressing disrespect. For example five year olds calling their teachers dumbas, stupid bchs, and ahls. In my experience it has not been debunked. Call me a science denier. The Savior and his prophets have warned us against it. I try to do what I can to follow them by repenting just like any other weakness. 

I have stated twice that I used profanity as a youth (despite a positive example set by my parents) and found it a difficult habit to break before I served a mission so I know. It is still occasionally a struggle to refrain, but nothing like it was back then when Zi took measures to stop.

Good luck on your explorations. 

This is horrible, I guess here in Davis County Utah it might be another world. I've never seen that in all my years of sub'g. I might just live in a bubble here in Utah. I sub'd in a few schools that I would see that in the halls etc. but very rarely, but not to the face, not sure how that would go over. I can see that a 5 year old might not know what they're doing though, and they've picked it up somewhere. And sometimes the parents might think it's funny or something. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Tacenda