pogi Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Well, that is the point I have been making. When the writers are sitting around the table, for example in Messiah, someone says "This guard is really shook up. How many profanities do we need to express his fear or surprise. 1,5, 15? How about none? It's been done to great effect for decades....even centuries. Character building. With limited time to develop a character with back stories etc. it is an effective and quick way to show that he is a salty character with a rough past. It is realism. We see it from characters like that in real life.
stemelbow Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Other than being pure gossip, why do you feel the need to slander a man who did much good and who is not here to defend himself? Slander? I didn't slander anyone. I shared a memory from my grandparents. Yes they knew him in high school and yes they chuckled when they saw him speaking. And yes they had foul mouths, likely extending back to their youths. Is saying they thought he was a bit obnoxious as a teenager slander?
bluebell Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, pogi said: I don't think the point of the rating system is to suggest that adult = swearing or anything else. It suggests that children are not mature enough to process it and can be more traumatic for them. I know that's the point of the rating system, but what that point looks like is a lot of swearing. Trying to find a MA show that doesn't have swearing is a real struggle. I don't think i've found one yet, even though there are hundreds to choose from. If you have found some please share. I know I haven't checked out all of them.
bluebell Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 17 minutes ago, pogi said: Character building. With limited time to develop a character with back stories etc. it is an effective and quick way to show that he is a salty character with a rough past. It is realism. We see it from characters like that in real life. Is it important that the audience thinks that the 20-something female Israeli soldier that is on the screen for 2 minutes is a "salty character with a rough past" though?
pogi Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, bluebell said: Trying to find a MA show that doesn't have swearing is a real struggle. I don't think i've found one yet, even though there are hundreds to choose from. If you have found some please share. I know I haven't checked out all of them. I don't think you want to find one without swearing. If it is not full of swearing, it will be full of violence or sexual content, etc. to give it an MA rating.
SeekingUnderstanding Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, bluebell said: Is it important that the audience thinks that the 20-something female Israeli soldier that is on the screen for 2 minutes is a "salty character with a rough past" though? I would say that scene showed the disdain the soldier had for the refugees and shows how we can easily dehumanize those different than us. Similarly, the refugees were ready to march down and do battle with their enemies the Jews. Provided good contrast to the scene later in the series when the soldiers are confronted by the protagonist. Edited January 14, 2020 by SeekingUnderstanding
pogi Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 47 minutes ago, bluebell said: Is it important that the audience thinks that the 20-something female Israeli soldier that is on the screen for 2 minutes is a "salty character with a rough past" though? It can also be used to show acute stress or elevate the seriousness of a situation.
pogi Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 58 minutes ago, bluebell said: If you have found some please share. One example is The Walking Dead. Swearing is sparse - mostly PG. The F word is virtually never used. It makes up for it in gore and violence though.
california boy Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) On 1/13/2020 at 9:24 AM, pogi said: I don't disagree with you about how language can be deleterious on human relationships. I don't think people should be unkind in general. In fact, I think that calling someone stupid or bullying in general is far, far worse than screaming "sh**" or "fu**" after hitting your thumb with a hammer. To protest at the one being portrayed in cinema and not the other is like straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel, in my opinion. I very much dislike when language (not just swear words) is used to hurt other people. I very much dislike vulgar language in relation to sacred sexual intimacy. I very much dislike the name of the Lord being used as a by-word. Even in cinema, it pains me to see it and hear it. But, my position is that even then it can be (I am not arguing that it always is) used to good effect. I also dislike murder, I hate violence, theft and dishonesty, etc. etc. etc. I view those things as extremely vulgar. Should we protest when they are portrayed in cinema? To clarify, I am not defending the use of hurtful language towards another human being (swearing isn't always used that way though) any more than you are defending racial prejudice, violence, murder, theft, etc. by not protesting its portrayal in the media. It is all bad, but it can all be portrayed to good effect with positive messages in story telling. I do not condone its use, per se. All though I have no issue with swearing in non hurtful ways - like yelling "sh**" when you slam your finger with a hammer. You are right it is easy to avoid though - You can't watch a TV show rated MA (the Messiah) and then complain about its language - that deserves an eye-roll. You hit the nail on the head (no swearing needed). I guess to me, there are so many things worse than swearing. There are plenty of things I won't watch because I find the content objectionable. And there are times when the swearing just becomes too much. But swearing is not a deal breaker for me. And I have to chuckle at those who think their point of view should be adapted by the film industry and can not understand why a writer decided to put in ANY swearing. We don't control what others do. We only control what we view. So hey, if the Messiah or any other program has something you object to, then I completely understand why someone might not want to watch it. What I don't think is ok, is to complain that the script didn't need the swearing, or should have been written differently. That is not your decision. It is the decision of the person telling the story. I find this editing services that take out anything objectionable that they don't like in a film quite offensive. It is like someone thinking you didn't use enough blue paint in your painting, so you decide to add a little. Whenever this issue comes up, I can't help but. think about my mission. I had a companion who was from Australia. To him, the word bloody was a very offensive swear word. He wouldn't even say if he had a bloody nose. He would call it a blood nose. I told him that bloody was not a swear word for me, so I had no issue using the word. And I have to admit, there were times when I would say bloody just to see his reaction. When does a word become a swear word? When we make it a swear word. I always thought hell was an interesting choice for being a swear word. What, are we not suppose to use the name of where Satan lives in vain? Explain that one to me. Edited January 15, 2020 by california boy
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 14 hours ago, pogi said: One example is The Walking Dead. Swearing is sparse - mostly PG. The F word is virtually never used. It makes up for it in gore and violence though. I have noticed that tv-MA is different for cable than it is for streaming platforms. The Expanse was first shown on Sci-Fi and maybe had one major swear word per episode. Once it was canceled and picked up by Prime, it now has multiple major swear words in each episode. I think we lucked out with the Walking Dead, because it came along before swearing on cable was a major thing. I found one MA show on Netflix that has been refreshingly F free, a documentary called Cheer. I think i've heard that word once or twice in 4 episodes, even though the focus of the show is college cheerleaders. It's been nice.
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 14 hours ago, pogi said: It can also be used to show acute stress or elevate the seriousness of a situation. I get that. But I think that a lot of t.v. shows don't put that much effort or thought in to the character development of minor characters or situations of minor importance to the plot.
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 15 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: I would say that scene showed the disdain the soldier had for the refugees and shows how we can easily dehumanize those different than us. Similarly, the refugees were ready to march down and do battle with their enemies the Jews. Provided good contrast to the scene later in the series when the soldiers are confronted by the protagonist. Maybe. I didn't get any of that from the scene, and would be surprised if most watchers knew that's what they were supposed to be learning from it. Since we don't know how those soldiers talk in other situations it's impossible to know whether they were reacting to the refuge specifically or if that's just how they talk all the time. We don't really have enough information at that time to know if the soldiers were showing disdain or were just behaving as they always do regardless of who walks up to the border. But you've watched more of the series than I have so maybe the moral of that short scene becomes more evident later? 1
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 15 hours ago, pogi said: I don't think you want to find one without swearing. If it is not full of swearing, it will be full of violence or sexual content, etc. to give it an MA rating. Not necessarily. Like I said earlier, Cheer on Netflix is MA and has had very few swear words, no sexuality, no nudity, and no violence.
pogi Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, bluebell said: Not necessarily. Like I said earlier, Cheer on Netflix is MA and has had very few swear words, no sexuality, no nudity, and no violence. What made it MA then? Quote This program is specifically designed to be viewed by adults and therefore may be unsuitable for children under 17. This program may contain one or more of the following: crude indecent language (L), explicit sexual activity (S), or graphic violence (V). http://www.tvguidelines.org/resources/TV_Parental_Guidelines_Brochure.pdf
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 28 minutes ago, pogi said: What made it MA then? I'm guessing it's probably from a few F's. So far I've only heard one but there could be a couple more sprinkled in before the series is over. Guess I'll see.
HappyJackWagon Posted January 15, 2020 Author Posted January 15, 2020 BTW- There is Sooooooo much more to Messiah than some bad language. It's unfortunate that some can't see past that. Maybe the vidangel version will be better. If you can't stomach some bad language, you might want to skip it. But if bad language isn't a deal breaker for you and you want a thoughtful, provocative narrative that will make you think, then give it a try. Every piece of media isn't for everybody but this show is excellent.
Ahab Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: BTW- There is Sooooooo much more to Messiah than some bad language. It's unfortunate that some can't see past that. Maybe the vidangel version will be better. If you can't stomach some bad language, you might want to skip it. But if bad language isn't a deal breaker for you and you want a thoughtful, provocative narrative that will make you think, then give it a try. Every piece of media isn't for everybody but this show is excellent. Is it rated R or MA ? My wife would rather just skip things like that even if there are only brief scenes with that type of content, and since she would rather skip past it I usually end up skipping past it too just so we can watch another show together. And we don't watch commercial advertisements anymore either because we also don't want any of that stuff floating around in our minds.
Ahab Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, bluebell said: I'm guessing it's probably from a few F's. So far I've only heard one but there could be a couple more sprinkled in before the series is over. Guess I'll see. Uh oh. Be careful there. By saying you'll see you seem to be drifting closer to the dark side.
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 25 minutes ago, Ahab said: Uh oh. Be careful there. By saying you'll see you seem to be drifting closer to the dark side. I don't think that watching a show about college cheerleading is 'drifting closer to the dark side' but if you do, then definitely don't watch it.
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 40 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: BTW- There is Sooooooo much more to Messiah than some bad language. It's unfortunate that some can't see past that. Maybe the vidangel version will be better. If you can't stomach some bad language, you might want to skip it. But if bad language isn't a deal breaker for you and you want a thoughtful, provocative narrative that will make you think, then give it a try. Every piece of media isn't for everybody but this show is excellent. I'm still trying. I've only made it to the second episode. My biggest struggle is that I don't really like political thriller type shows, and so far that's the biggest vibe I've gotten from this show. Does it start to focus more on the religious side of things soon? 1
Ahab Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: I don't think that watching a show about college cheerleading is 'drifting closer to the dark side' but if you do, then definitely don't watch it. I was just advising you to be careful. If you don't want to be careful then you don't have to be careful. And if you agree that you should be careful then you agree with me.
bluebell Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Ahab said: I was just advising you to be careful. If you don't want to be careful then you don't have to be careful. And if you agree that you should be careful then you agree with me. I get what you were saying. I appreciate your concern for me.
Ahab Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, bluebell said: I get what you were saying. I appreciate your concern for me. Finally! Someone other than my wife who appreciates what I say and do to try to help other people! And someone on the internet, even! I think we should have a party now. I'll eat a cookie when I get home and you can have whatever you want. 1
Tacenda Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, bluebell said: I get what you were saying. I appreciate your concern for me. I've been watching a lot of Netflix and Amazon Prime since babysitting my grandbaby for a week, and see "Cheer" all the time, but haven't ventured to see what it's all about, what's it all about, if you don't mind me asking. I guess I could just watch it, but curious why you liked it. 🙂
bluebell Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, Tacenda said: I've been watching a lot of Netflix and Amazon Prime since babysitting my grandbaby for a week, and see "Cheer" all the time, but haven't ventured to see what it's all about, what's it all about, if you don't mind me asking. I guess I could just watch it, but curious why you liked it. 🙂 It's a documentary that follows the Navarro college cheer squad as they prepare for nationals in Daytona. It's very good. Not only is it interesting but it's incredibly touching. And despite being rated MA, I only heard one F that I noticed, over the course of 6 episodes. I highly recommend it.
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