Netflix- messiah

[Bernard Gui]

15 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Bad language can be used to great comic effect (Just ask Ryan Reynolds) but it does get pretty nuts. Sadly, MANY people really speak that way in every day life. Even in a white collar workplace I'm shocked by the mouths on people. I think it really is "normal" for many people.

It's interesting to think of virtuous, lovely, or of good report as a spectrum and not a black and white- this is lovely- this is not. In some cases it's easy to lump media into one group or the other, but in other cases it is much more complicated than that. For example, I find Messiah to be a net good despite it's less virtuous moments of language etc. Each person will have their own threshold for what is and isn't acceptable/worthy/praiseworthy, but it does get complicated when there are elements of both good and bad.

I found myself laughing out loud as the multiple f and sh words were being flashed on the screen from Hebrew and Arabic translations. It’s hard to take such bad writing seriously. Bad language is just that....bad language....a nasty habit that many people find difficult to overcome. It’s the first resort of bad writers. It’s ubiquitousness has destroyed its shock value and now it’s just gratuitous. It spoils many productions that otherwise might have been enjoyable and edifying. Lots of really great movies, books, operas, plays, poems, and songs have no foul language at all.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[SeekingUnderstanding]

39 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I found myself laughing out loud as the multiple f and sh words were being flashed on the screen from Hebrew and Arabic translations. It’s hard to take such bad writing seriously. Bad language is just that....bad language....a nasty habit that many people find difficult to overcome. It’s the first resort of bad writers. It’s ubiquitousness has destroyed its shock value and now it’s just gratuitous. It spoils many productions that otherwise might have been enjoyable and edifying. Lots of really great movies have no foul language at all.

Or it’s just indicative of how people actually talk, your prudish judging not withstanding...

[Bernard Gui]

5 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Or it’s just indicative of how people actually talk, your prudish judging not withstanding...

Prudish judging. Interesting.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[SeekingUnderstanding]

11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Prudish judging. Interesting.

 

“nasty habit” “bad writers” “spoils”

Nope, no prudish judging there! I’ve watched four episodes and all I see is an accurate portrayal of how people actually talk. Do you really need the world sanitized for you?

Edited January 10, 2020 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Bernard Gui]

54 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

“nasty habit” “bad writers” “spoils”

Nope, no prudish judging there! I’ve watched four episodes and all I see is an accurate portrayal of how people actually talk. Do you really need the world sanitized for you?

Speaking out against foul language is not “sanitizing the world.” It’s pointing out the obvious. Good criticism involves judgement and discernment. I criticize the ubiquity of foul language in our culture, especially our pop culture “entertainment” because it foments disrespect, debases our communications, sullies our spirit, and decreases our humanity.

Today a child in Sister Gui’s kindergarten class called another boy a “mfr.” Another boy spit in her para’s face. Kids have called her and her para “stupid bchs”and “ahles.” Five years old. You maintain this is how everyone talks? This is good? Who wants to live in this kind of environment?

Yes, use of foul language is a nasty habit that is difficult to overcome. I know from experience. Yes, we have become desensitized to it by pop culture. Look around at what we call entertainment. Yes, it is the first resort of bad writing. Can’t think of a way to express shock or fear? Just throw in a string of fs  and shs. Easy solution. Yes, it spoils many an otherwise good production. Yes, it is gratuitous. Yes, it has lost its shock value. Yes, it can get you suspended from school or fired from a job. Yes, it offends listeners. Yes, it lessens the user’s character and credibility. Yes, it is juvenile communication. Yes, the Savior and his prophets warn against it.

No, it is neither mature nor adult. There is nothing adult about it.  It is simply puerile. 

Defend it if you wish.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[HappyJackWagon]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Speaking out against foul language is not “sanitizing the world.” It’s pointing out the obvious. Good criticism involves judgement and discernment. I criticize the ubiquity of foul language in our culture, especially our pop culture “entertainment” because it foments disrespect, debases our communications, sullies our spirit, and decreases our humanity.

Today a child in Sister Gui’s kindergarten class called another boy a “mfr.” Another boy spit in her para’s face. Kids have called her and her para “stupid bchs”and “ahles.” Five years old. You maintain this is how everyone talks? This is good? Who wants to live in this kind of environment?

Yes, use of foul language is a nasty habit that is difficult to overcome. I know from experience. Yes, we have become desensitized to it by pop culture. Look around at what we call entertainment. Yes, it is the first resort of bad writing. Can’t think of a way to express shock or fear? Just throw in a string of fs  and shs. Easy solution. Yes, it spoils many an otherwise good production. Yes, it is gratuitous. Yes, it has lost its shock value. Yes, it can get you suspended from school or fired from a job. Yes, it offends listeners. Yes, it lessens the user’s character and credibility. Yes, it is juvenile communication. Yes, the Savior and his prophets warn against it.

No, it is neither mature nor adult. There is nothing adult about it.  It is simply puerile. 

Defend it if you wish.

"Defend it if you wish."

Challenge accepted  

I'm not a fan of profanity. I tend to think of it as a nasty habit and a crutch some use in a very lazy way. I almost never swear (when anyone is around) but when I'm alone in my car, driving home from a rotten day of work I sometimes let it fly and it's oddly soothing.

My wife also teaches Kindergarten and she has some very funny stories (some less funny) about these little kids swearing. She even told me about a 3 year old in the preschool dropping the Fbomb the other day. I tend to think of it as a window into that child's home life.

I don't think Seeking Understanding was saying that rampant profanity is "good", only that it's common and normal. Honestly, if there was a very rough and tumble Mossad officer who didn't ever swear, it would be unusual. I think the writing in this show is actually very good. The language characters use really reflects that character. I've definitely seen shows in which EVERY character drops the f-bomb 3 times in every sentence and I consider that to be lazy/bad writing because there is nothing unique about it. It doesn't reflect the character so much as it seems to reflect the writer. I think the wring in Messiah is far better than that. The profanity is used with purpose and to develop characters and contrast them against others.

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by HappyJackWagon

[Teancum]

On 1/9/2020 at 10:06 AM, bluebell said:

It's getting really bad.  Almost every show has the F word throughout it, regardless of the subject matter.  It always makes me wonder what has gone wrong in the writers' lives that they think this is how adults are supposed to talk to each other.

It's like they think 'Look!  I'm adulting!  I can say whatever words I want now!"  Like a caricature of what being grown up looks like, written by a teenager.

Unfortunately Adults do talk like that. At least the ones I know that don't have some sort of religious constraint on the use of vulgarity and cuss words.

[smac97]

38 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

"Defend it if you wish."

Challenge accepted  

I'm not a fan of profanity. I tend to think of it as a nasty habit and a crutch some use in a very lazy way. I almost never swear (when anyone is around) but when I'm alone in my car, driving home from a rotten day of work I sometimes let it fly and it's oddly soothing.

I had some experiences as a child that made cussing pretty repellant.  When I went into the Army, I remember having to make the conscious choice to not swear, since it was an integral part of the daily lexicon around me.  Then I went on a mission, and not swearing was the easiest thing in the world.  Then I married a wonderful, gentle, and genteel woman who has never sworn in her life.  This progression has helped me with not developing a swearing habit.

Also, on my mission in Taiwan I quickly learned a term that I found hilarious:

Quote

糟糕 (zāogāo)
形
"terrible"

⇒ 真糟糕,我的钥匙丢了。 (Zhēn zāogāo, wǒ de yàoshi diū le.) Oh no, I've lost my key!

⇒ 糟糕,庄稼给毁了。 (Zāogāo, zhuāngjia gěi huǐ le.) How awful! The crops have been ruined.

This word was often used as exclamation, and with gusto, by missionaries.  For stubbed toe, a missed appointment, a dropped plate, you name it.

Then I found out what it literally means:

Quote

糟糕! (zao1gao1, Literal English translation: “messy cake”)

I thought that was hilarious.  It's meaning is innocuous and it's a fun to say.  The "z" is hard, like a "dz" sound.  The "g" is also hard (as in "guard").  The "ao" in both syllables is like the "ow" is "how."  Here's a recording of how to pronounce it (click on the microphone icon under the Chinese characters).

So zāogāo is my go-to exclamation for when I am exasperated or irritated.

Another absurd one comes from an experience I had with my wife and kids.  One evening we were watching an episode of Planet Earth (with David Attenborough).  After the episode there was a brief "making of" documentary that included footage of a cameraman who had been taken up into the air in a strange contraption that was a cross between a hot air baloon with a propeller-powered paraglider.  The cameraman was a tall, lanky Brit, and the pilot of the contraption was French, so they could not communicate well.  The documentary included footage capturing the moment when the contraption lost power and the whole thing crashed into the branches of a high tree.  Just as they hit, the Brit shouted "Oh my giddy aunt!"  

My kids were rolling on the floor laughing.  It was quite a funny thing to hear.  

So my kids now alternate between Zāogāo and Oh My Giddy Aunt! as their go-to exclamations.  I get that they are perhaps "minced oaths," but oh well.

Yiddish also has some utility.  "Kvetch" is fun to say (as in "Stop kvetching about your chores, son, and just do them").

Quote

I don't think Seeking Understanding was saying that rampant profanity is "good", only that it's common and normal. Honestly, if there was a very rough and tumble Mossad officer who didn't ever swear, it would be unusual. I think the writing in this show is actually very good. The language characters use really reflects that character. I've definitely seen shows in which EVERY character drops the f-bomb 3 times in every sentence and I consider that to be lazy/bad writing because there is nothing unique about it. It doesn't reflect the character so much as it seems to reflect the writer. I think the wring in Messiah is far better than that. The profanity is used with purpose and to develop characters and contrast them against others.

I dunno.  Some of my favorite "gritty" movies are older ones, like Bridge on the River Kwai, The Guns of Navarone, The Great Escape, and The Longest Day.  The swearing/profanity in these were quite tame, and yet the stories are still powerfully told.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 10, 2020 by smac97

[LoudmouthMormon]

By the way folks, vidangel's filtering service is still a thing, and is going well.  Works with Netflix/AmazonPrime/etc, they even are producing their own original content. 

https://www.vidangel.com/

Ten bucks a month. 

[bluebell]

23 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Unfortunately Adults do talk like that. At least the ones I know that don't have some sort of religious constraint on the use of vulgarity and cuss words.

That seems very odd to me, that the adults you know believe that the only reason not to swear would be religious constraints.  Do these people, that have no religious constraints on their language, normally swear when speaking to their parents, grandparents, neighbors, co-workers, customer service people, waiters, sales people, etc?

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

By the way folks, vidangel's filtering service is still a thing, and is going well.  Works with Netflix/AmazonPrime/etc, they even are producing their own original content. 

https://www.vidangel.com/

Ten bucks a month. 

I tried it an hated it.  The quality was like watching a movie from 1980 that someone had secretly videotaped from a movie theater.  I had so much hope for it and tried the 10 day free trial but only managed to watch 1 and 1/4 movies before I couldn't take it any longer.  I was bummed.

Though from a moral standpoint, it is kind of weird to know that someone has watch all of the parts of movies that I believe are detrimental in order to make it possible for me to filter out the parts that are detrimental.  I don't know that that would stop me from using it, but it was a bit uncomfortable to realize.

[Tacenda]

31 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That seems very odd to me, that the adults you know believe that the only reason not to swear would be religious constraints.  Do these people, that have no religious constraints on their language, normally swear when speaking to their parents, grandparents, neighbors, co-workers, customer service people, waiters, sales people, etc?

I hate the f-word, but wondering why I do so much. Since it is just a word according to my youngest son who will let that word go sometimes, and I hate it! But does he have a point? How do I go about arguing with him why I hate that word so much? Oh well...

[pogi]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I hate the f-word, but wondering why I do so much. Since it is just a word according to my youngest son who will let that word go sometimes, and I hate it! But does he have a point? How do I go about arguing with him why I hate that word so much? Oh well...

It doesn't matter why it affects you so much.  The point is that it does.  For him to use it around you, despite knowing how it affects you shows disrespect.  While I am less affected by curse words, I am careful to assess and respect the sensibilities of those around me.  If I am not sure about someone, I simply don't swear. 

[HappyJackWagon]

10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I hate the f-word, but wondering why I do so much. Since it is just a word according to my youngest son who will let that word go sometimes, and I hate it! But does he have a point? How do I go about arguing with him why I hate that word so much? Oh well...

Swearing really is just a social convention and depends wholly on the environment and culture in which a person find him/herself. Many words that are profane in the US are not in other parts of the world and vice versa.

I used to always replace the SH word with crap. I said it a lot and thought I was being a good boy for not using the SH word. Really? Is one really that much worse than the other? Now I don't say either but I generally don't swear because of how I feel it reflects on me personally.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

"Defend it if you wish."

Challenge accepted  

I'm not a fan of profanity. I tend to think of it as a nasty habit and a crutch some use in a very lazy way. I almost never swear (when anyone is around) but when I'm alone in my car, driving home from a rotten day of work I sometimes let it fly and it's oddly soothing.

My wife also teaches Kindergarten and she has some very funny stories (some less funny) about these little kids swearing. She even told me about a 3 year old in the preschool dropping the Fbomb the other day. I tend to think of it as a window into that child's home life.

I don't think Seeking Understanding was saying that rampant profanity is "good", only that it's common and normal. Honestly, if there was a very rough and tumble Mossad officer who didn't ever swear, it would be unusual. I think the writing in this show is actually very good. The language characters use really reflects that character. I've definitely seen shows in which EVERY character drops the f-bomb 3 times in every sentence and I consider that to be lazy/bad writing because there is nothing unique about it. It doesn't reflect the character so much as it seems to reflect the writer. I think the wring in Messiah is far better than that. The profanity is used with purpose and to develop characters and contrast them against others.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

There is nothing funny or cute about what is happening in Sister Gui’s class, and her experiences are not unique. There is a sea change happening in young children’s behavior and it is not for the better.

 I did not say SU was claiming rampant profanity is good. Rather, I asked the question if this situation is good. I don’t think it is. I believe it has a deleterious effect on our culture. We can and should do better.  We can disagree.

I’m weary of the efforts of many to excuse the coarsening of our culture by claiming foul language simply reflects reality. Racking up streams of “f and sh bombs” to make things more “real” is sophomoric. It’s been done to death. Now it’s just gratuitous and laughable. There are so many examples of good writing that don’t rely on such laziness. If the writing is so good, would Messiah be diminished if the writers left out the profanity? I don’t think so. 

We can vote with our remotes at least to keep it out of our living rooms. if enough people do that someone may get the message. 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Teancum]

12 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I grew the same sense from my brother who still hesitates to cuss around me because he sees me as the good latter-day saint....even though i cuss from time to time. Particularly at work (tends to express certain emotions well for people)

It can annoy me when it’s used too much though in shows. It’s oddly hit or miss for me. Some shows I tolerate it because I like the plot enough to bare through it. Some it seems to fit enough and used well enough that its not really distracting for me (that’s where the Messiah is fitting currently). And others I just can’t. A recent Scifi i had to stop because i swear 2/3 of the “dialogue” was cussing.

 

i’ve made it to episode 7 and really am enjoying it, Btw! I like that it’s kept me guessing and that guessing has made me feel more empathetic to the characters as they try to figure him out as well. The one that stuck with me the most was the one with the dog and the dialogue around who he was there for. It had me thinking of the purposes that these people had and we all have with God and how that often diverges from what God actually wants. 
 

With luv, 

bd 
 

I didn't find the bade language in Messiah over the top. Seemed to fit with the characters and situation. On the other hand I have been watching Designated Survivor that had two seasons on ABC who cancelled it. Netflix picked it up for a third season. The language and vulgarity is over the top and is used where it really does not fit very well. Plus there is too much gratuitous sex. Bad language does not really bother me all that much as I live with it a lot in the working world and with a number of friends. But in Designated Survivor is bugs me as the over the top sex scenes are as well.Maybe it because it was on ABC first and none of this was on the show. But I don't think so. It really is over the top. I am thinking of not continuing watching it.

[california boy]

What I find interesting is profanity seems to be the worse thing people are objecting to in this series.  Most of the swearing comes from the Israeli agent, who, in my opinion, swearing is probably one of his really minor flaws as a person.  Evidently, those other flaws are all ok to watch.  But swearing! That draws the line.

To me, that says even more about how some view our culture.  "If we could just get rid of the swearing, then this ________ would be great."  The starving, violence, hatred, prejudice etc that is also portrayed in the film are ok. Just don't swear.  

Should films only show everything that is good in the world?  Or sometimes is opposition to that which is good an important part of learning.  

Part of what makes a good movie for me, is exposing myself to other cultures, other points of view, other lifestyles, how others struggle and deal with life.  It may not be the way I approach life, but it is for that very reason i am interested in a film or book.  Some people swear.  I am not going to immediately hit the eject button and miss out on the insights I am learning about my perceptions of what I think the Messiah should be like.  This series opens up to the possibility that my perception might very well be wrong.  I find this portrayal of Messiah returning much more connected to mankind than a God coming from the clouds burning everything that doesn't measure up in His path.  It makes me think more deeply about who is Christ.  Way more important to think about than whether a person swears IMO.

[Tacenda]

18 minutes ago, california boy said:

What I find interesting is profanity seems to be the worse thing people are objecting to in this series.  Most of the swearing comes from the Israeli agent, who, in my opinion, swearing is probably one of his really minor flaws as a person.  Evidently, those other flaws are all ok to watch.  But swearing! That draws the line.

To me, that says even more about how some view our culture.  "If we could just get rid of the swearing, then this ________ would be great."  The starving, violence, hatred, prejudice etc that is also portrayed in the film are ok. Just don't swear.  

Should films only show everything that is good in the world?  Or sometimes is opposition to that which is good an important part of learning.  

Part of what makes a good movie for me, is exposing myself to other cultures, other points of view, other lifestyles, how others struggle and deal with life.  It may not be the way I approach life, but it is for that very reason i am interested in a film or book.  Some people swear.  I am not going to immediately hit the eject button and miss out on the insights I am learning about my perceptions of what I think the Messiah should be like.  This series opens up to the possibility that my perception might very well be wrong.  I find this portrayal of Messiah returning much more connected to mankind than a God coming from the clouds burning everything that doesn't measure up in His path.  It makes me think more deeply about who is Christ.  Way more important to think about than whether a person swears IMO.

Great points! I hate this problem with the f-word I have. It's far better to see the bigger picture, like you spell out, thanks! I remember King's Speech and how many didn't see that movie because it was an "R". But he says the f-word over and over in one scene because he's dealing with a stutter problem. To think that many missed out on a wonderful movie over that!

[poptart]

On 1/7/2020 at 10:17 AM, smac97 said:

I dropped my Netflix subscription in favor of Disney+.

Not much coverage of this issue (Dermot Mulroney playing a Latter-day Saint POTUS), but I did see this:

It seems like Hollywood doesn't know what to do with us, or else just wants to use us as exotic "stock" characters/caricatures.  "Big Love" did not even try to meaningfully represent what we believe and why.  HBO is planning another Mormon-related drama (see here), I concur with what Bluebell surmised: "I have zero--less than zero--faith that HBO will actually be able to accurately portray a member being caught between Las Vegas and her spiritual beliefs.  It's practically a given that this series will show a caricature of mormonism."

I'm not sure about the depiction of the Church and its members in Hell on Wheels.  Pogi noted (comparing it to the upcoming HBO drama): "Hopefully they do better than Netflix's Hell on Wheels, Where Brigham Young and other Mormons play a fairly prominent role in later seasons."

The treatment of the Church and its members in The Expanse also seemed to be lacking.  Maidservant noted: "The Expanse. Mormons in space. (Amazon). Not the main plot, but the Mormon space temple and the pioneer art persist through the rest of the seasons (after the main situation in season 1). Caricatured and gotten wrong, lol, but I still like it. I mean, Mormons in space! We are obviously durable culture! Ha ha."

Paint Your Wagon?  Nope.

Orgazmo?  Nope.

Angels in America?  Dunno.  I haven't seen it.

The Book of Mormon musical?  Nope.  Massive caricature and mockery.  

South Park's "All About Mormons" episode?  Sadly, this is perhaps the most accurate (or, rather, the least inaccurate) depiction of some of what we believe (albeit for lampooning purposes).

 

The all about mormons ep is one of my favs, love how they make the family look very stable.  Depressing compare and contrast with how most families are though, randy on the couch and everyone ignoring each other.  Crucifix is in plain view though.....

 

Another gem, cannibal the musical, one of Trey Parker and Matt Stones earlier works.

Another good one on adult swim, black Jesus. 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

There is nothing funny or cute about what is happening in Sister Gui’s class, and her experiences are not unique. There is a sea change happening in young children’s behavior and it is not for the better.

 I did not say SU was claiming rampant profanity is good. Rather, I asked the question if this situation is good. I don’t think it is. I believe it has a deleterious effect on our culture. We can and should do better.  We can disagree.

I’m weary of the efforts of many to excuse the coarsening of our culture by claiming foul language simply reflects reality. Racking up streams of “f and sh bombs” to make things more “real” is sophomoric. It’s been done to death. Now it’s just gratuitous and laughable. There are so many examples of good writing that don’t rely on such laziness. If the writing is so good, would Messiah be diminished if the writers left out the profanity? I don’t think so. 

We can vote with our remotes at least to keep it out of our living rooms. if enough people do that someone may get the message. 

While I try to respect different sensibilities as I know that they are deeply culturally ingrained, it is those sensibilities themselves that give these strings of four letters their potency.  We are socially training kids that these words are powerful.  The words, in and of themselves, are mostly benign (depending on the context they are used in).   I disagree that it is always "lazy", nor is it a sign of limited vocabulary.  That has been debunked.    It is often intentional and effective use of expression that other words fall short of conveying.  The more we dig our feet in the ground and become offended by their use, the more powerful these words become.  The alternative course of action will cause them to lose their power, and "sh**" becomes no different from "poop".  There really is no good reason why one is more powerful then the other, except that we want it to be that way for some weird reason.  Most of these words were not seen as curse words originally, and were commonly used in everyday language.  The F word is actually originally a Germanic word that means "to strike".  It was first known to be used by a monk as an expression of frustration.  It later took on a sexual connotation (I don't like it when used in that way).  In some instances, it can be filthy and vulgar, in other contexts it is truly benign, unless we make it otherwise.

You are right, there certainly is good writing that doesn't rely on swear words, but there are also extremely talented writers who do use them to great affect. Of course, that is subjective matter of opinion. But my opinion is the only one that matters, obviously!

Edited January 10, 2020 by pogi

[bluebell]

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Same here, love Shawshank Redemption!

I happen to stumble across a movie a while back that has a few racial slurs, and possibly the f-word maybe can't remember, and violence, but it was so touching too at the same time, absolutely loved it called "Gran Torino". And the old man (Clint Eastwood) in it reminded me of my dad sort of. It featured the Hmong people and they had such an amazing culture, and there was a good moral to the story. If there isn't a good moral to it, I don't like R's much or any movie for the most part.

Gran Torino is an amazing movie.

[Meadowchik]

9 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Gran Torino is an amazing movie.

I haven't seen that one yet, but Blood Diamond has horrific content but is also imo incredibly powerful. There's a moment of mercy and faith between father and son that is beautifully moving.

[Bernard Gui]

45 minutes ago, pogi said:

While I try to respect different sensibilities as I know that they are deeply culturally ingrained, it is those sensibilities themselves that give these strings of four letters their potency.  We are socially training kids that these words are powerful.  The words, in and of themselves, are mostly benign (depending on the context they are used in).   I disagree that it is always "lazy", nor is it a sign of limited vocabulary.  That has been debunked.    It is often intentional and effective use of expression that other words fall short of conveying.  The more we dig our feet in the ground and become offended by their use, the more powerful these words become.  The alternative course of action will cause them to lose their power, and "sh**" becomes no different from "poop".  There really is no good reason why one is more powerful then the other, except that we want it to be that way for some weird reason.  Most of these words were not seen as curse words originally, and were commonly used in everyday language.  The F word is actually originally a Germanic word that means "to strike".  It was first known to be used by a monk as an expression of frustration.  It later took on a sexual connotation (I don't like it when used in that way).  In some instances, it can be filthy and vulgar, in other contexts it is truly benign, unless we make it otherwise.

You are right, there certainly is good writing that doesn't rely on swear words, but there are also extremely talented writers who do use them to great affect. Of course, that is subjective matter of opinion. But my opinion is the only one that matters, obviously!

Yeah, I get it. Cussing is salutary, but thanks, not debunked for me. They have no power. Waiting for the obligatory f and sh in a movie or tv series would be an amusing beer pong game. Ginger beer, of course. I disagree that they can be used to great effect. I don’t think a work would be diminished without them. Well, maybe Planet of the Apes. 🤭

To me they are the epitome of puerile discourse that I listened to for 42 years in the public schools. There’s nothing “adult” about them, like “Hey! You’re a kid! You don’t get to talk like adults! Grow up and then you can say f and sh as much as you want!“ Seriously? But of course that is my opinion. I’m not ashamed to dig in my heels on this, though.😉 

As the fouler words come into common parlance, something else comes in to fill the void in the media, from nothing to mfr in my lifetime. So we have a few waiting in the wings or playing bit parts, but eventually we’ll run out of shock words. Maybe that will be a good thing. Bring them on! 😀

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Steve-o]

I don't know. This all sounds pretty deep for entertainment purposes. I may just have to stick with reruns of Seinfeld. But the discussion has been interesting. Have a  $#*$&#^ weekend!

[Bernard Gui]

 

Quote

To me, that says even more about how some view our culture.  "If we could just get rid of the swearing, then this ________ would be great."  The starving, violence, hatred, prejudice etc that is also portrayed in the film are ok. Just don't swear.  

Should films only show everything that is good in the world?  Or sometimes is opposition to that which is good an important part of learning.  

Part of what makes a good movie for me, is exposing myself to other cultures, other points of view, other lifestyles, how others struggle and deal with life.  It may not be the way I approach life, but it is for that very reason i am interested in a film or book.  Some people swear.  I am not going to immediately hit the eject button and miss out on the insights I am learning about my perceptions of what I think the Messiah should be like.  This series opens up to the possibility that my perception might very well be wrong.  I find this portrayal of Messiah returning much more connected to mankind than a God coming from the clouds burning everything that doesn't measure up in His path.  It makes me think more deeply about who is Christ.  Way more important to think about than whether a person swears IMO.

A simple comment objecting to foul language in a movie becomes a negative reflection on one’s religious, humanitarian, and social commitments. Interesting.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bernard Gui