The Church is Losing Millennials?

[Teancum]

17 hours ago, Duncan said:

I'm just talked with someone who recently quit the Church and they don't agree with the recent policy change and what can you say? support the prophets but hate yourself? how do you love yourself but still be against these issues? I have no answer 

I am sorry but your comment makes no sense.  Can you please clarify?

[Rivers]

16 hours ago, why me said:

Many young people have a let live, be free attitude and are rather open when it comes to values that used to be frowned upon, mainly centered in social issues. Mormonism has gotten bad press when it comes to social policy. And I am sure that young mormons feel the pressure and the social baggage that they may feel comes with mormonism. 

I can compare this with muslim youth that I see. Parents are dressing their girls much earlier now in the hijab. I can see girls who are just nine and younger wearing the hijab. And then I see teens in the hijab too. I think that muslim parents wish to convey the muslim identity on their children and make them proud to be muslim. It is not easy getting girls to wear a hijab and I am sure that the community does put pressure to do so. And when you asked some of these girls why are they wearing the hijab, they exclaim that it is part of their identity as  a muslim. A very western reply which I am sure is a calculated reply for western consumption.

Mormon kids do not feel such pressure except maybe in the mormon corridor. Most kids are outside such community pressure and may have no idea about their own identity as mormons. Maybe there should be classes for the young about the importance of the mormon identity.

Should we have children start wearing garments early?

[Duncan]

15 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I am sorry but your comment makes no sense.  Can you please clarify?

I was just talking with someone who quit the Church and they were saying that "support the prophets but hate yourself? how do you love yourself but still be against these issues?" and then I said I don't know

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I was just talking with someone who quit the Church and they were saying that "support the prophets but hate yourself? how do you love yourself but still be against these issues?" and then I said I don't know

If the prophets are speaking for themselves, they have nothing to worry about.  If they are speaking for Christ, then that is a problem.  One truly hates themselves if they rebel against Christ as they will be forced to suffer even as Christ suffered.  Nobody really punishes God or the Church by leaving the Church.  In the end, they are the only casualty of their decision and the effects can last for trillions of earth years.  I guess they need to figure out how they can support the prophets and learn not to hate themselves in the process.

Edited April 16, 2016 by carbon dioxide

[bsjkki]

The millennialls care about diversity and are keenly aware of perceived injustice.  One millennial commenter I read said the church needed "more love and less fear."

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

The millennialls care about diversity and are keenly aware of perceived injustice.  One millennial commenter I read said the church needed "more love and less fear."

They are not very tolerant of diversity of thought though. 

[Storm Rider]

1 minute ago, bsjkki said:

The millennialls care about diversity and are keenly aware of perceived injustice.  One millennial commenter I read said the church needed "more love and less fear."

To use ignorance and naivety and a lack of life experience as an example to teach others.....yeah, I don't buy it so much.  These poor children have been pounded and programmed by an educational system that is one of the worst in the entire world.  My children learn and relearned every year - Abraham Lincoln and the freeing the slaves, Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights movement, and Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust - yet they could three of the founding fathers, did not know what the War of 1812 was about; could not tell you why WWI started or the Korean War.  They could not tell you what the Magna Carta was or where it was written.  Their education was a joke and it remains a joke.

What is even worse is that university level education has become a cesspool of spoiled tyrants that need "safe places" to exist because diversity has become too excruciatingly painful.  Now we don't have offensives we have micro-offensives to worry about for these poor, sensitive, bleeding hearts that are supposed to lead our country in the next fifty years.  

I am sorry, but at the macro level these children scare me because they are so unbelievably ignorant, yet are filled with an arrogance and pride that they think they actually know what is best.  Save us from them; may the minority of intelligent individuals among them rise to the top.  The problem with that is that this group actually thinks that there should be an equality of results rather than being created equal only.  There is no meritocracy, there is not working harder than the other guy because we have created a society that is more concerned about gender, sexual preference, and minority status for filling jobs than actual qualifications.  

I need to stop.  It is just too easy to get carried away.  I have seen too many examples of sheer stupidity held up as something to be emulated.  No thank you.  My mother and father had feet too firmly planted in the soil to raise a group of twits that when seeing a donkey, regardless of what others may call it, it remains a donkey.  

[bsjkki]

2 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

To use ignorance and naivety and a lack of life experience as an example to teach others.....yeah, I don't buy it so much.  These poor children have been pounded and programmed by an educational system that is one of the worst in the entire world.  My children learn and relearned every year - Abraham Lincoln and the freeing the slaves, Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights movement, and Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust - yet they could three of the founding fathers, did not know what the War of 1812 was about; could not tell you why WWI started or the Korean War.  They could not tell you what the Magna Carta was or where it was written.  Their education was a joke and it remains a joke.

What is even worse is that university level education has become a cesspool of spoiled tyrants that need "safe places" to exist because diversity has become too excruciatingly painful.  Now we don't have offensives we have micro-offensives to worry about for these poor, sensitive, bleeding hearts that are supposed to lead our country in the next fifty years.  

I am sorry, but at the macro level these children scare me because they are so unbelievably ignorant, yet are filled with an arrogance and pride that they think they actually know what is best.  Save us from them; may the minority of intelligent individuals among them rise to the top.  The problem with that is that this group actually thinks that there should be an equality of results rather than being created equal only.  There is no meritocracy, there is not working harder than the other guy because we have created a society that is more concerned about gender, sexual preference, and minority status for filling jobs than actual qualifications.  

I need to stop.  It is just too easy to get carried away.  I have seen too many examples of sheer stupidity held up as something to be emulated.  No thank you.  My mother and father had feet too firmly planted in the soil to raise a group of twits that when seeing a donkey, regardless of what others may call it, it remains a donkey.  

All you say may be absolutely true but how do we reach them?  

 

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

They are not very tolerant of diversity of thought though. 

Yes, they think they are enlightened and superior to their parents.  What will bring them back.  How do you combat the idea that "the church hurts people?"  I am sincere.  This is what I hear and this is what some believe and this is based on their perceptions.  Perception is reality even if untrue.  Do I just keep praying? There are a lot of Mormon moms who feel like complete failures who are dealing with this generation.

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

All you say may be absolutely true but how do we reach them?  

 

Yes, they think they are enlightened and superior to their parents.  What will bring them back.  How do you combat the idea that "the church hurts people?"  I am sincere.  This is what I hear and this is what some believe and this is based on their perceptions.  Perception is reality even if untrue.  Do I just keep praying? There are a lot of Mormon moms who feel like complete failures who are dealing with this generation.

Im wondering, how did the parents of 1960s generation handle it?  The millenials and that generation have a lot in common, patents from that era might have some real insights. 

I think a lot of it just has to be matured out of probably (the idea that they are more enlightened than older generations). 

My oldest is 14 so I'm not th best person to ask.

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

To use ignorance and naivety and a lack of life experience as an example to teach others.....yeah, I don't buy it so much.  These poor children have been pounded and programmed by an educational system that is one of the worst in the entire world.  My children learn and relearned every year - Abraham Lincoln and the freeing the slaves, Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights movement, and Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust - yet they could three of the founding fathers, did not know what the War of 1812 was about; could not tell you why WWI started or the Korean War.  They could not tell you what the Magna Carta was or where it was written.  Their education was a joke and it remains a joke.

What is even worse is that university level education has become a cesspool of spoiled tyrants that need "safe places" to exist because diversity has become too excruciatingly painful.  Now we don't have offensives we have micro-offensives to worry about for these poor, sensitive, bleeding hearts that are supposed to lead our country in the next fifty years.  

I am sorry, but at the macro level these children scare me because they are so unbelievably ignorant, yet are filled with an arrogance and pride that they think they actually know what is best.  Save us from them; may the minority of intelligent individuals among them rise to the top.  The problem with that is that this group actually thinks that there should be an equality of results rather than being created equal only.  There is no meritocracy, there is not working harder than the other guy because we have created a society that is more concerned about gender, sexual preference, and minority status for filling jobs than actual qualifications.  

I need to stop.  It is just too easy to get carried away.  I have seen too many examples of sheer stupidity held up as something to be emulated.  No thank you.  My mother and father had feet too firmly planted in the soil to raise a group of twits that when seeing a donkey, regardless of what others may call it, it remains a donkey.  

I have been very harsh on the millennial generation for similar views but I think we need to be fair that though many are like that, many are not.  Just as not all people in the 60s were using drugs and all people in the 70s were wearing bell bottom pants, there are many good millennials out there.  Not all millennials are slaves to their phones. I still see some walking around without needed a device in their hands for them to exist in this world.   What I will push back on is this idea from the media that the millennials are somehow a better, more informed generation.  Some only know what is on their phone.  Take the phone away and they have issues.  Many say they are more tolerant.  I have not completely bought into that.  I am not sure it is an issue of tolerance but of simply accepting certain views regardless of whether it makes sense.  Accepting things simply on the basis of tolerance is not necessarily a virtue.  This whole transgender movement has me really thinking that I actually am in the twilight zone. 

I guess if we really believe that we are living in days more wicked than Noah time this is to be expected. A wicked generation will bring forth an even worse generation. The race to the bottom only gets faster but the world does not see it as wickedness but tolerance and progression and "being on the right side of history" and it all looks good until it all comes crashing down.

Edited April 17, 2016 by carbon dioxide

[VideoGameJunkie]

I'm a Millennial and I'm not leaving.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, bsjkki said:

The millennialls care about diversity and are keenly aware of perceived injustice.  One millennial commenter I read said the church needed "more love and less fear."

I do not see any indication that millenials are more passionate about injustice then previous generations.

As to the fear vs. love "perfect love casteth out all fear". There is some fear on the way to said perfect love so what they need is less fear of fear and more love of love.

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 15/04/2016 at 1:36 AM, california boy said:

If you only hang around members of the church...

I live in a secular nation where, according to the last census, barely 50% of people identify as Christian and where fully one-quarter of the population claims 'no religion' -- the fastest growing group. Latter-day Saints make up less than half of 1%, so I don't think I live in any kind of 'Mormon bubble'.

Quote

...then you might be thinking that nothing has changed over the past decade.  Unfortunately you are wrong.  And the youth of the church know that.

Ten years ago, we had one set of Elders serving in our ward, and it seemed like no one was interested in their message. We now have two sets of Elders and a set of Sisters, and amongst them they are currently teaching eight progressing investigators, so something certainly has changed. As ward mission leader, I track each week the number of member-arranged lessons, and last week our ward members arranged a total of 16 lessons for our three companionships.

Quote

When young members of the church are with their friends, and the church comes up, do you think they are proud to be Mormon?

Yes, absolutely. In ward council this morning, our Young Women president mentioned how many of our young women take their friends to Mutual activities, and Bishop pointed out that the young men had taken five non-member friends to their activities last week.

I believe you when you describe the situation amongst those you hang around with, but I would hesitate to universalise from either of our personal experiences.

[Storm Rider]

9 hours ago, bsjkki said:

All you say may be absolutely true but how do we reach them?  

 

Yes, they think they are enlightened and superior to their parents.  What will bring them back.  How do you combat the idea that "the church hurts people?"  I am sincere.  This is what I hear and this is what some believe and this is based on their perceptions.  Perception is reality even if untrue.  Do I just keep praying? There are a lot of Mormon moms who feel like complete failures who are dealing with this generation.

First, be at peace.  There are many reasons why some people will reject Christ today - it is not the end of the world.  Allow the Spirit to work with them, allow them the freedom to reject the church without reproach or a response that they or the Church needs to be "fixed".  They need a time to mature and grow and when the Spirit moves them they will return to that which they know is true.  

We are human; we are so incredibly complex and yet so very simple.  There are such overwhelming forces being exerted upon each individual in life that it is amazing that so many succeed at anything.  I have heard children say their parents do not love them, were hateful to them, and punished them unmercifully.  I have heard children talk about the Church in the same way.  I have heard the same kind of things about how individuals feel toward God.  He is not there; he does not hear my prayers; he cannot exist because he doesn't respond like I think is best; look at all the horrible things that are done in the world - God cannot be real; I hurt and it is God's fault.

These are passing emotions that are ruling the individual's mind.  Allow God to touch their heart and let the Holy Spirit guide.  God has always been the captain of the ship even when we thought he was not there.

Our job is to just love each of them.  Let them be the way they choose and love them anyway.  We must live our lives in a way that allows them the freedom to live theirs without condoning their words or actions.  The words and actions are their personal choice just as our words and actions are our own.  When they ask, we answer.  If they are not asking they are not listening.  They will hurt themselves; sometimes deeply, terribly, but it is their path and they must walk it until they realize they had what they were looking for all along.  

[Storm Rider]

9 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I have been very harsh on the millennial generation for similar views but I think we need to be fair that though many are like that, many are not.  Just as not all people in the 60s were using drugs and all people in the 70s were wearing bell bottom pants, there are many good millennials out there.  Not all millennials are slaves to their phones. I still see some walking around without needed a device in their hands for them to exist in this world.   What I will push back on is this idea from the media that the millennials are somehow a better, more informed generation.  Some only know what is on their phone.  Take the phone away and they have issues.  Many say they are more tolerant.  I have not completely bought into that.  I am not sure it is an issue of tolerance but of simply accepting certain views regardless of whether it makes sense.  Accepting things simply on the basis of tolerance is not necessarily a virtue.  This whole transgender movement has me really thinking that I actually am in the twilight zone. 

I guess if we really believe that we are living in days more wicked than Noah time this is to be expected. A wicked generation will bring forth an even worse generation. The race to the bottom only gets faster but the world does not see it as wickedness but tolerance and progression and "being on the right side of history" and it all looks good until it all comes crashing down.

They are absolutely NOT more tolerant, more loving, or more inclusive.  What they are is insular, private, and unsocial.  They don't know what it means to converse for any length of time.  Their tolerance is limited to an abstract idea read on a soundbite.  It is not a tolerance that is the result of experiencing people first hand, face-to-face.  Their lives are lived on media and not in actual, living relationships with humans first hand.  

I have always laughed about people who live in concrete jungles telling people who live in the country how they can better live their lives in nature.  These are people that think a forest is a few trees standing alone.  They think that animals run wild and are infinitely kind to one another.  They have never seen what it takes to be a good farmer or a good rancher.  They have no understanding of nature and what an unforgiving teacher she is.  

I completely agree that there are outstanding millennials that live wonderful, outstanding, superior lives, but gads, I find such shallowness and loneliness in so many of them that is combined with such closed minds born of pride in utter ignorance of life. 

 

[Senator]

14 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

  In the end, they are the only casualty of their decision and the effects can last for trillions of earth years.

Wow..that's a real long time!

[california boy]

12 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

To use ignorance and naivety and a lack of life experience as an example to teach others.....yeah, I don't buy it so much.  These poor children have been pounded and programmed by an educational system that is one of the worst in the entire world.  My children learn and relearned every year - Abraham Lincoln and the freeing the slaves, Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights movement, and Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust - yet they could three of the founding fathers, did not know what the War of 1812 was about; could not tell you why WWI started or the Korean War.  They could not tell you what the Magna Carta was or where it was written.  Their education was a joke and it remains a joke.

What is even worse is that university level education has become a cesspool of spoiled tyrants that need "safe places" to exist because diversity has become too excruciatingly painful.  Now we don't have offensives we have micro-offensives to worry about for these poor, sensitive, bleeding hearts that are supposed to lead our country in the next fifty years.  

I am sorry, but at the macro level these children scare me because they are so unbelievably ignorant, yet are filled with an arrogance and pride that they think they actually know what is best.  Save us from them; may the minority of intelligent individuals among them rise to the top.  The problem with that is that this group actually thinks that there should be an equality of results rather than being created equal only.  There is no meritocracy, there is not working harder than the other guy because we have created a society that is more concerned about gender, sexual preference, and minority status for filling jobs than actual qualifications.  

I need to stop.  It is just too easy to get carried away.  I have seen too many examples of sheer stupidity held up as something to be emulated.  No thank you.  My mother and father had feet too firmly planted in the soil to raise a group of twits that when seeing a donkey, regardless of what others may call it, it remains a donkey.  

Are you saying that you disagree with millennial conclusion and more fear is needed and less love?  Really?  I think your post only supports their conclusion. We will not be judged by what we know about the war of 1812, but rather how we treat others. 

I actually think you have clearly demonstrated why millennials and people in general are walking away from religion. Bakers can't bake for sinners any more. Gays should be denied their civil rights. Their children should not allowed to be baptized. Let's call them apostates. Let's kick them out of the church if they are sinning. Freedom of speech trumpets the laws of the land.  These are the tenants of religion that is driving people away from the Mormon church and organized religion  in general. 

[why me]

17 hours ago, Rivers said:

Should we have children start wearing garments early?

Probably  not. I think that the muslim community sees the west as evil and because of this, they tend to separate from it and become rather insular. Mormons however, go into the world and seek to influence it. There is a difference between the two groups. Anyone who has been too europe can see insular muslim women dressing in a very conservative hijab even though the koran says nothing about such dress. It is quite amazing really, until one understands that it is a reaction against western values. As such even little girls are now wearing the hijab and are pressured to do so by other muslim children and their parents.

Both men and women wear garments and are encouraged to do so but it is not actually necessary.

Edited April 17, 2016 by why me

[halconero]

On April 15, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Duncan said:

Your experience with activity is really different from mine in terms of Calgary. But you are right that winds are changing in how youths see the Church and their place in it and the Church's place in the world.

Yeah, well...that's what happens when your cross-section comes from the YSA Alberta Confessions Page, Duncan.

A more wicked hive of villainy I have never witnessed.

[Storm Rider]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

Are you saying that you disagree with millennial conclusion and more fear is needed and less love?  Really?  I think your post only supports their conclusion. We will not be judged by what we know about the war of 1812, but rather how we treat others. 

I actually think you have clearly demonstrated why millennials and people in general are walking away from religion. Bakers can't bake for sinners any more. Gays should be denied their civil rights. Their children should not allowed to be baptized. Let's call them apostates. Let's kick them out of the church if they are sinning. Freedom of speech trumpets the laws of the land.  These are the tenants of religion that is driving people away from the Mormon church and organized religion  in general. 

Cal, you either don't read what I write or you have a standard, knee-jerk response for anyone that has the temerity to disagree with you and your opinions.  

Inclusion does not come from have five friends of color on Facebook or on Twitter.  Inclusion and tolerance comes from living with those that are not like you and working through a relationship.  A relationship is not obtained by watching Modern Family on television and supporting what you think is being inclusive.  This type of thinking is the result of being shallow and ignorant - ignorant in the sense of not knowing anything, or very little, about life.  

I would get off that high horse and realize that others may disagree and while still respecting you.  

[carbon dioxide]

17 hours ago, bsjkki said:

The millennialls care about diversity and are keenly aware of perceived injustice.  One millennial commenter I read said the church needed "more love and less fear."

I am for more love and less fear as long as the more love does not include accepting good as evil and evil as good. 

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

They are absolutely NOT more tolerant, more loving, or more inclusive.  What they are is insular, private, and unsocial.  They don't know what it means to converse for any length of time.  Their tolerance is limited to an abstract idea read on a soundbite.  It is not a tolerance that is the result of experiencing people first hand, face-to-face.  Their lives are lived on media and not in actual, living relationships with humans first hand.  

I have always laughed about people who live in concrete jungles telling people who live in the country how they can better live their lives in nature.  These are people that think a forest is a few trees standing alone.  They think that animals run wild and are infinitely kind to one another.  They have never seen what it takes to be a good farmer or a good rancher.  They have no understanding of nature and what an unforgiving teacher she is.  

I completely agree that there are outstanding millennials that live wonderful, outstanding, superior lives, but gads, I find such shallowness and loneliness in so many of them that is combined with such closed minds born of pride in utter ignorance of life. 

 

Should I tell you what they think of you?  

[The Nehor]

Millenials are still young and stupid. We were all once young and stupid. We just tend to be more tolerant of our own youthful stupidity then we are of the stupidity of succeeding generations because it is not only stupid it is an unfamiliar form of stupidity.

[Storm Rider]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Should I tell you what they think of you?  

Do you think I care?

[The Nehor]

Just now, Storm Rider said:

Do you think I care?

The feeling is probably mutual.