The Church is Losing Millennials?

[why me]

Young lds need to see their mormonism as an identity. If they are not proud of their identity they will not make it. We need to change the conversation from being mormon and what is required to what is a mormon identity and what does this require. In other words, young people need to be proud to be mormon: lifestyle, culrure, way of life etc. They need to discuss what it means to be mormon and how a mormon identity is a plus and not a minus.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

They aren't doing more of the same thing though, that's what I mean. They've completely overhauled the curriculum, they are giving kids more interactive time with apostles, they changed the age for serving missions, and the ensign now has whole sections dedicated specifically to YSA, for example. 

But those are merely details in a system that hasn't changed. A change in curriculum is to be expected every few years. Time with leaders is a normal practice/expectation for most people. It would be very strange if that didn't happen. The church is merely trying to play a little catch up but it's very little and very late.

The conservative structure of church services feels antiquated to many. They may long to connect with God but are bored to death by organ music and hymns written 150 years ago. Nothing modern in any way as if modern is evil. They go to 3 hours of meetings, week in...week out. They've done that their entire lives. Nothing has ever changed except for minor details. They want to connect with God but they are told there is only one way and that way bores them. It doesn't inspire them so they don't feel connected to God...so they leave, not just the church but religion in general because they come to believe connection to God isn't even possible. From their experience they've tried everything they've been told should connect them but it doesn't work.

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 hours ago, salgare said:

Yes, indoctrination is key to holding onto the upcoming generations.  Unfortunately with the old ways are not working so well anymore with the advancements of communications devices to youth to adulthood.

Do you just make up what you want to read into my posts? Nowhere did I even imply 'indoctrination'. Our young people need to be empowered to make their own choices and learn things for themselves. That's precisely what having active youth leaders and effective PP/DtoG programs assists with. And I don't know which 'old ways' you're talking about, but my former Young Men are as digitally connected as anyone else in the world, and they're doing great. Two more are due to complete their missions in June and July. Those who've returned from their missions in the last two years are all active and faithful. Two of them hold stake callings. The simple reality is that when we follow the teachings and counsel of the living prophets, the Church prospers, and its members thrive in their faith.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 hours ago, rockpond said:

Within just the past month we've had two missionaries who were serving in our ward both leave the mission early and go home.

 

6 hours ago, Duncan said:

In my ward since almost exactley 3 years ago, 12 have returned home early, who served here.

Wow. We had our ward missionary coordination meeting last night, and I had six despondent missionaries on my hands. When I asked them what was wrong, they reminded me that transfer calls are coming this weekend, and they're all fearful that they might have to leave our ward. Not one of them wants to go. I think I prefer my experience...

[Storm Rider]

29 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

 

Wow. We had our ward missionary coordination meeting last night, and I had six despondent missionaries on my hands. When I asked them what was wrong, they reminded me that transfer calls are coming this weekend, and they're all fearful that they might have to leave our ward. Not one of them wants to go. I think I prefer my experience...

It is odd how those who are engaged in the work at all levels seems to attract the same type of people.  Those people who have all the fire and engagement of a lukewarm, tepid, bowl of much seem to attract the same type of people.  I wonder why that is?

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I wonder why that is?

I'm the last person to think that we should bury our heads in the sand and ignore problems that really exist, but I can't help but wonder if all this posturing about how the Church is failing young people when, in fact, it's the only thing that really works isn't designed, at least in part, to tempt those who are 'doing a great work' to come down from the wall.

[Storm Rider]

When members are surrounded by leaders that consistently demonstrate a lack of testimony, a lack of Spirit, and a lack of belief - what exactly do we think will happen?  The issue is NOT identifying those that reflect these less than valiant traits, but it is about each member, leader, and priesthood holder reflecting on how their example may be affecting others and changing our example if necessary to show our faith, compassion, and Spirit to others.  

I know of very few organizations that teach so effectively how to be happy as the Church of Jesus Christ.  Too many are absolutely committed to walk in darkness and accuse the Church of failing - failing them and failing in its mission.  How many times do prophets and apostles have to counsel people to stick to the fundamentals and yet individuals will purposely, consciously choose to hang their salvation on anything but Jesus Christ and his teachings.  They don't understand the history, they seek to rebel against the prophets and then they want to be happy?  From where do they think the Spirit comes?  When has disobedience lead to the Spirit?  Never.  

Edited April 15, 2016 by Storm Rider

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, bsjkki said:

What is somewhat ironic about the missionary discussion is President Monson's history as a mission president.  This is a personal story so if someone wants to fact check it, please do.  President Monson was my father-in-laws mission president.  They go to all the mission reunions and love telling me all about them.  From what they have told me, President Monson refused to lose any of his missionaries and would not send anybody home.  As I've been told, "even if  they should have been."

As someone who was companions with two elders who should have been booted home (and never actually allowed to come in the first place) I am not sure if I agree with that. They held me back and I think I was a pretty poor missionary.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, mtomm said:

Thank you for this. It's just gets so tiresome. This may be part of why millennials don't want to come to church. Who wants to hear week after week how awful your generation is?  My millennial children spend a good chunk of Sacrament meeting rolling their eyes because it's turned into a "bash video games, cell phones, and the internet"  instead of a time of spiritual renewal and coming unto Christ. 

Well, I do agree that these things can in excess be dangerous but I hate the idea that the rising generation is somehow weaker and less prepared then previous generations. I loved my Nintendo when I was growing up. I still play games occasionally but it is a sporadic hobby now.

I got better. My dad was a basketball and football nut when he was a kid. The only games he ever missed where a few right after he turned 19 because he was nervous the bishop would want to talk to him about a mission. He confided that he spent way too much time obsessed with those in his youth and young married life but he got better.

If the tales my grandfather tells are true (I suspect they were with possibly slight exaggerations) then his escapades with firearms and his four hour escape from the Utah State Police and his youthful gambling addiction were almost all-consuming. He got better.

Many kids now are obsessed with texting and communications. A few, like in every generation, will fall off the wagon and ruin their lives. Due caution should be taught to all to avoid this. Most will grow out of it and be fine. Now if you are texting during the sacrament I agree you should knock it off.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I look at these young faces very often; especially on "p" day..(is that they call it)? These guys look like 13 year olds..I just think they are way too young.  It is just my opinion but those fresh faces even at 19 are not equipped today as they may have been when you guys were missionaries.  So many more options and many more questions have changed.  For their sakes, I am hoping that service missions will be the rule soon.  My brother came home early years ago...it really messed him up for the reception he got.  Hope things have changed for the better.  But those young faces both male and female are hard to take seriously and I feel for them  Please give them a redeeming choice and maybe they will stay.

I have only to pull my mission journals off the shelf to realize what a complete idiot I was on my Mission (must remember to burn those before I die). I don't think anything has changed about missionaries except that I got a little older and remember my successes on my mission better then I do my stupid 19 year old kid moments. If I could go out on a mission now I would be much more prepared and skilled....which is why I should never be allowed to.....there is something to be said about humility.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, why me said:

Young lds need to see their mormonism as an identity. If they are not proud of their identity they will not make it. We need to change the conversation from being mormon and what is required to what is a mormon identity and what does this require. In other words, young people need to be proud to be mormon: lifestyle, culrure, way of life etc. They need to discuss what it means to be mormon and how a mormon identity is a plus and not a minus.

A lot of that is more family then church in my experience. I don't often feel a strong bond with my ward family but if I think of my parents and grandparents and carrying on a legacy of their spiritual strength....that is stronger. Show me a child deeply embarrassed about being LDS on more then a superficial level and I would bet their parents feel the same way.

[bsjkki]

25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

As someone who was companions with two elders who should have been booted home (and never actually allowed to come in the first place) I am not sure if I agree with that. They held me back and I think I was a pretty poor missionary.

I think my husband and father-in-law may agree with you.

[The Nehor]

Just now, bsjkki said:

I think my husband and father-in-law may agree with you.

I think the "Raising the Bar" initiative was a good thing but I am not sure how well implemented it was. Then again, I was on my Mission when they did that and the arrogant little snots who came out and thought they were amazing because they were above the bar need to be slapped down a little.

I understand wanting to keep missionaries out in the field when they are almost faithless and to send missionaries out to set them straight in the field but the process is so draining on those they serve with. After three months with a companion who, in essence, believed the gospel but hated it and shared his struggle with all our investigators I was ready to go home just to get away from that git. Maybe I should have shown more sympathy to his self-hating rants about how he was damned rather then telling him to "Go home!" or "Please go home!" or "Have the strength of your convictions and go home." I had another companion who was on his mission because his father told him he would buy him a new truck at the end as if this was an example of financial brilliance on his part to be out. Then I showed him how he could buy such a car in less then a year making minimum wage with far less hours then missionaries worked. He wrote an angry letter to his dad claiming his dad tricked him.

[Jeanne]

22 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I think the "Raising the Bar" initiative was a good thing but I am not sure how well implemented it was. Then again, I was on my Mission when they did that and the arrogant little snots who came out and thought they were amazing because they were above the bar need to be slapped down a little.

I understand wanting to keep missionaries out in the field when they are almost faithless and to send missionaries out to set them straight in the field but the process is so draining on those they serve with. After three months with a companion who, in essence, believed the gospel but hated it and shared his struggle with all our investigators I was ready to go home just to get away from that git. Maybe I should have shown more sympathy to his self-hating rants about how he was damned rather then telling him to "Go home!" or "Please go home!" or "Have the strength of your convictions and go home." I had another companion who was on his mission because his father told him he would buy him a new truck at the end as if this was an example of financial brilliance on his part to be out. Then I showed him how he could buy such a car in less then a year making minimum wage with far less hours then missionaries worked. He wrote an angry letter to his dad claiming his dad tricked him.

Wow..I so appreciate your honesty in all this.  Perhaps it would be better that missionaries go out because they really want to.  Surely it would be better for the companions that really want to serve.

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Too many are absolutely committed to walk in darkness and accuse the Church of failing - failing them and failing in its mission.  How many times do prophets and apostles have to counsel people to stick to the fundamentals ...?

Yep, and Duncan has kindly provided us with Exhibit A:

9 hours ago, Duncan said:

I remember vividly Elder Bradley Foster of the 70 coming here for stake conference a few years ago and he gave us all training on ward council mtgs and he showed us what was good and what wasn't good and guess what happened the next week in our ward council? nothing, it was as if Elder Foster hadn't even been here, we tried to change things but got nowhere with it.

 

 

[salgare]

3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Do you just make up what you want to read into my posts? Nowhere did I even imply 'indoctrination'. Our young people need to be empowered to make their own choices and learn things for themselves. That's precisely what having active youth leaders and effective PP/DtoG programs assists with. And I don't know which 'old ways' you're talking about, but my former Young Men are as digitally connected as anyone else in the world, and they're doing great. Two more are due to complete their missions in June and July. Those who've returned from their missions in the last two years are all active and faithful. Two of them hold stake callings. The simple reality is that when we follow the teachings and counsel of the living prophets, the Church prospers, and its members thrive in their faith.

http://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/elder-ballard-on-building-a-better-boat/

I did not see anything about PP or DtoG in the new way.  Do you know the essays like the back of your hand?  Are you teaching them?

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 hours ago, bsjkki said:

From what they have told me, President Monson refused to lose any of his missionaries and would not send anybody home.  As I've been told, "even if  they should have been."

Earlier this year, my stake president told me that the mission president told him that our stake is where he sends missionaries he's determined to save. I'm glad we get to play that role!

Almost exactly two years ago, we had an Elder in our ward who decided he was going home because he didn't believe anything anymore. He'd even found material online to support him in his new-found doubt. He was due to be picked up and taken to the mission office directly after church. He took me behind the chapel to explain his situation and to apologise for being such a crap missionary. I told him I wasn't worried about his performance as a missionary but about the quality of his life. He assured me he'd be fine with the 'stigma' of having failed as a missionary. I explained to him that I wasn't worried about any stigma either; I was, however, worried about the quality of his life. Enjoying the fullness of the blessings of the restored gospel is the key to the abundant life. That's what I didn't want him to miss out on, I said. And then I begged him to accept any second chances that might be offered to him. He said he thought he was beyond second chances, but I reiterated my plea.

I still don't know what happened in the interim, but he was back in our stake one year later as a zone leader ... and one of the model missionaries in our mission. I'm so glad! I've kept in contact with him post-mission, and he's doing well. I'm even more glad!

[salgare]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I think the "Raising the Bar" initiative was a good thing but I am not sure how well implemented it was. Then again, I was on my Mission when they did that and the arrogant little snots who came out and thought they were amazing because they were above the bar need to be slapped down a little.

Did those standards/policies since drop?

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 minutes ago, salgare said:

I did not see anything about PP or DtoG in the new way.

They are an integral part of the learn/do/share pattern used across the entire youth curriculum. Saints for whom gospel principles exist only in their heads get lost easily. Saints who've intensively lived gospel principles and know the reality of their fruits, not so much. And though many 'cultural Mormons', predominantly in America, are still sending some of their sons to us as some kind of rite of passage, I can tell during the very first lesson those who know from personal experience what they are teaching and those who are merely parroting someone else's words.

Quote

Do you know the essays like the back of your hand?  Are you teaching them?

I was teaching them to my priests quorum before they even existed. Hell, I was bringing in posts from the Mormon Discussions board to use in my priests quorum lessons. The boys became brilliant at reading them against the grain.

[Hamba Tuhan]

18 minutes ago, salgare said:

Did those standards/policies since drop?

Not that I'm aware of. The last time I was in America (nearly five years ago), a couple shared in sacrament meeting what they had learnt during a week-long training retreat with the Young Men general presidency and a couple of apostles. According to the man, they were told that never before in the history of the Church have we had such a worthy cohort of missionaries. I believe him. The Church leader then said they'd spent much time in the field trying to figure out why such worthy missionaries were sometimes so ineffective at preaching the gospel, and the conclusion was clear: they were just talking about the gospel without the personal experiences to really share it. The plan to revamp the entire youth curriculum (including Duty to God) was made to address this single failing, we were told.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Hamba Tuhan

[Rivers]

The internet probably has lot to do with it. Young people now have much more exposure to a variety of differing world views.   

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Young people now have much more exposure to a variety of differing world views.   

When I was a missionary, I taught a young man who attended a large regional high school that had exactly three Latter-day Saint students in it. I'm so glad those three never had to be exposed to a variety of differing world views. Who knows if they could have maintained their faith?

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

You can't force them to come back.

TTribe didn't suggest that anyone is forced back now did he?   He referred to comments made by Jesus about seeking the lost sheep when others were chest thumping about how wonderful it is to lose all these weak kneed uncommitted millennials (and others as well).

Of course many of the comments in the first page about wheat and tares, people leaving over politics or doctrine, or whatever take the idea that this is a good thing.  Ttribe was just saying Jesus taught to go after the lost sheep.

People stop going to church, whether LDS or others, for many reasons.  Some are intellectual reasons, some are they don't believe the founding claims or that the current leaders are really getting the word of God, some want to sin, some are bored, some for social issues, etc.

It has always been so really.  It is accelerated due to much of the information age availability of data that may have been harder to obtain in the past, it may be that there are more social pressures to conform to things the Church opposes and the list can go on.  

But I don't think most the leaders think it is a good thing to lose old or young members.  I never thought is was a good thing when I worried about such things in various ward leadership positions I have held.  And retaining members or reactivating lost ones has always been a strong theme in the Church.

[RevTestament]

I personally think the church used to present sort of a white-washed picture to children, which did not prepare them for doubts, lies, and "bad talk" they would face on the internet. I think the church is trying to be more open to remedy this, but got caught a little behind the eight-ball with the "millennial" generation. However, this generation is leaving Christianity at a generally increased pace in essentially all Christian sects.

[carbon dioxide]

On 4/14/2016 at 9:58 PM, ttribe said:

 

So much for the whole leaving the ninety and nine in search of the one who was lost, right?  I mean, really, just cull the heard and all is well in Zion again.

Lovely sentiments.

Remember in that parable that the lost sheep was simply lost and is ready to come back to the fold when found.   If one of the sheep purposely decides to run away, they are not lost.  They don't want to be a part of the fold.