halconero Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 No. I'm 25 (turning 26 in September), and I'm pretty sure BlueDreams is around our age as well. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 14 minutes ago, halconero said: No. I'm 25 (turning 26 in September), and I'm pretty sure BlueDreams is around our age as well. Well it's good that us 3 millennials remain strong in the church. 1
The Nehor Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well it's good that us 3 millennials remain strong in the church. I need to get a lawn so I can yell at kids like you to get off of it. 3
why me Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: I disagree with you, what part of God/Jesus Plan offers free will? Not word of Wisdom rules, You can't skip the church regularly, especially not for a good weekend in Wendower or Mesquite...There's never an healthy balance of gratification for a TBM, I mean.....even drinking a beer or a cup of black tea is impossible....I'm European, when I was in France,Switzerland with the missionaries (I wasn't one) I always used to tease them "Now I realize that you are bringing the good news to them but how do they take the bad news of giving up their Wine,Tea and beer?" They knew I was joking but deep down they knew this was an insurmountable problem..... I think that lds understanding goes like this: we are on this earth to grow and to live. We are on this earth to get experience as human beings. We are on this earth to exercise our free will and free agency. And hopefully we will choose the right. But we can also choose the wrong. At the end of the day, it is up to us to decide what is right and what is wrong regardless of what our heavenly parents wish for us. No different than this physical life that we have with our own earthy parents. If I wish to have a beer. I can do it. If I wish not to wear temple garments. I can do it. If I wish to drink tea....I can do it. In terms of wine and other alcoholic drinks, they are many alcoholics who wish they had that aspect of the word of wisdom. Much pain would have been avoided. But free will and agency does come with such risks. And at the end of the day, one can have a non-alcoholic beer. Same taste but no buzz. And I think that this is the problem with the current generation and with generation y. They believe that the lds church is a dictatorship without free agency or choice. Not true if so. Young people need to know that no one is perfect and the lds church does not need perfection. Just human beings trying to live life with the love of god in their hearts. Edited April 19, 2016 by why me 2
Atheist Mormon Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 5 hours ago, why me said: I think that lds understanding goes like this: we are on this earth to grow and to live. We are on this earth to get experience as human beings. We are on this earth to exercise our free will and free agency. And hopefully we will choose the right. But we can also choose the wrong. At the end of the day, it is up to us to decide what is right and what is wrong regardless of what our heavenly parents wish for us. No different than this physical life that we have with our own earthy parents. If I wish to have a beer. I can do it. If I wish not to wear temple garments. I can do it. If I wish to drink tea....I can do it. In terms of wine and other alcoholic drinks, they are many alcoholics who wish they had that aspect of the word of wisdom. Much pain would have been avoided. But free will and agency does come with such risks. And at the end of the day, one can have a non-alcoholic beer. Same taste but no buzz. And I think that this is the problem with the current generation and with generation y. They believe that the lds church is a dictatorship without free agency or choice. Not true if so. Young people need to know that no one is perfect and the lds church does not need perfection. Just human beings trying to live life with the love of god in their hearts. Thanks for your eloquent answer. I can't comprehend any of it but I can accept it. I came here to understand how you guys process this "Faith" element when there's such overwhelming evidence to contrary....... 1
Rivers Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 9 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Well it's good that us 3 millennials remain strong in the church. I'm in a family of seven children. We're all still on the Old Ship Zion. My parents should consider themselves fortunate. 1
stemelbow Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 14 hours ago, The Nehor said: I do as I can. You are the one suggesting joy is wrong when there is so much suffering. Not really. I'd suggest the goal of joy may be misplaced when there is so much suffering. I did not suggest we can't feel joy even in the midst of trial and pain.
Jeanne Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 13 hours ago, Tacenda said: I've been to a couple of concerts too, "Little River Band" and "Eddie Rabbit". But will never set foot on a Fun Bus again. I have never been on a fun bus..I want the airport to fly a bunch from Logan to Bendover..They have a great new airport out there and we could just fill it up and be there in an hour...! Eddie Rabbit huh??? Woot!
The Nehor Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: Not really. I'd suggest the goal of joy may be misplaced when there is so much suffering. I did not suggest we can't feel joy even in the midst of trial and pain. My goal is misplaced then.
bluebell Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: Not really. I'd suggest the goal of joy may be misplaced when there is so much suffering. I did not suggest we can't feel joy even in the midst of trial and pain. Is this what you teach your kids (that you don't want them to seek joy because of all the suffering)? That might sound snarky but I'm not asking it as a gotcha, I'm sincerely interested in how you've been able to incorporate this philosophy into your parenting.
stemelbow Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: Is this what you teach your kids (that you don't want them to seek joy because of all the suffering)? That might sound snarky but I'm not asking it as a gotcha, I'm sincerely interested in how you've been able to incorporate this philosophy into your parenting. One of our family goals is to be unashamedly compassionate and sacrificially empathetic. But one of our family goals is not to seek joy. Joy will always come to everyone. The amount of joy one receives is dependent on many factors.
bluebell Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, stemelbow said: One of our family goals is to be unashamedly compassionate and sacrificially empathetic. But one of our family goals is not to seek joy. Joy will always come to everyone. The amount of joy one receives is dependent on many factors. So you have a specific goal NOT to seek joy?
ttribe Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: So you have a specific goal NOT to seek joy? I think he's saying that "seeking joy" is not one of the family goals. 1
stemelbow Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, bluebell said: So you have a specific goal NOT to seek joy? No. We've specifically left out self-serving types of goals.
The Nehor Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Just now, stemelbow said: No. We've specifically left out self-serving types of goals. Being happy is self-serving?
stemelbow Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 Just now, The Nehor said: Being happy is self-serving? My goodness you non-stop questioners, you. I didn't suggest that. Obviously, a goal that serves yourself is the definition of self-serving. Having joy is not necessarily self-serving.
Mystery Meat Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 39 minutes ago, stemelbow said: My goodness you non-stop questioners, you. I didn't suggest that. Obviously, a goal that serves yourself is the definition of self-serving. Having joy is not necessarily self-serving. Not all self-serving goals are bad. In fact, I would argue that the best goal is ultimately a self-serving one and to accomplish it you have to do a lot of selfless things.
Rock_N_Roll Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: I have never been on a fun bus..I want the airport to fly a bunch from Logan to Bendover..They have a great new airport out there and we could just fill it up and be there in an hour...! Eddie Rabbit huh??? Woot! I've never done the Fun Bus either. It's not really that long of a drive by car. I've seen Toto, Night Ranger and Blue Oyster Cult there. I've even done a few shows there myself. I try to get tickets to Styx every time they come to Wendover, but it's always sold out.
bluebell Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: No. We've specifically left out self-serving types of goals. Got it. Do goals like getting a degree, etc. count as "self serving"? I'm sorry I'm being nosy, it's a new concept to me so I'm trying to understand what you mean better. Edited April 19, 2016 by bluebell
ttribe Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 19 minutes ago, Rock_N_Roll said: I've never done the Fun Bus either. It's not really that long of a drive by car. I've seen Toto, Night Ranger and Blue Oyster Cult there. I've even done a few shows there myself. I try to get tickets to Styx every time they come to Wendover, but it's always sold out. How was the cowbell?
stemelbow Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 41 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said: Not all self-serving goals are bad. In fact, I would argue that the best goal is ultimately a self-serving one and to accomplish it you have to do a lot of selfless things. I get there is disagreement about what is a good goal and bad goal.
Anijen Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 6 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Thanks for your eloquent answer. I can't comprehend any of it but I can accept it. I came here to understand how you guys process this "Faith" element when there's such overwhelming evidence to contrary....... I love this answer. I have a few (say 10) friends who are atheists and we get along great. I once told one of these friends that "Mormons must really drive you guys nuts." He asked why would that be? I replied; "not only do we believe in life after this one, but we believe in a life before this one began."
stemelbow Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 19 minutes ago, bluebell said: Got it. Do goals like getting a degree, etc. count as "self serving"? I'm sorry I'm being nosy, it's a new concept to me so I'm trying to understand what you mean better. Hey Bluebell. of course goals created to serve self is self serving. Setting a goal to get a degree is an attempt to serve oneself, sure. I'm not saying all self-serving goals are bad. I told you we don't have as family goals, or guiding principles if you will, that are self-serving, at least not blatantly so. Teach correct principles and let the details be worked out by the individual, is a principle I live by. I'm an encourager and one who builds up as a father. My kids like to accomplish for self, sure. But they don't have stated goals that are to serve self. Serving self just comes, naturally so and not forcefully so. It follows from a life of seeking other's welfare, I hope.
Rock_N_Roll Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, ttribe said: How was the cowbell? "Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!"
ttribe Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Rock_N_Roll said: "Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!"
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