Marriage Sealings After Death

[Ham Clam]

Can anyone tell me more about sealing people after they die?

Are there any talks by leaders out there about a member finally being sealed to a non-member after they died?

Thanks
 

[pogi]

Do you mean a living member being sealed to a deseased non-member?

[Stargazer]

Wow, talk about an open-ended question. Can you narrow it down some?

I don't think I know of any talks by leaders on the subject you indicate.

[Garden Girl]

Is there something specific you had in mind... I will tell you of my sealing...

 

I  was raised LDS... at age 19 I attended one year at BYU, coming home and taking what I thought would be a summer job, returning to BYU for my second year... however, at the company where I worked I met a wonderful non-LDS man.  We began to see each other... finally marrying (we eloped to Las Vegas, which broke my folks' hearts... not what they expected from the daughter they thought would surely marry in the temple).  However, they did come to love my husband dearly because he was such a good man.  As often happens in part member marriages, I soon began to slip into inactivity... my husband was not anti-LDS in any way, but he still chose not to attend with me. 

My inactivity lasted about 34 years... during which time I'd occasionally feel a yearning for the Church, and a prompting to return.  I stayed close to the Church through my folks, and still read my scriptures and prayed daily... and retained my testimony even though pushing it, and the promptings, aside... but finally one year after watching Gen Conf I told my husband I just really felt the need to return to Church and he was fully supportive. 

The final catalyst was the sudden death of my TBM mom, and staying with my Dad for about a month afterward and attending Church with him... So at age 55 when I returned home I walked into my local ward, starting all over, and I've never looked back.   

My husband supported me in all my callings, and was absolutely wonderful to the sister missionaries assigned to our ward, and they loved him.  He had begun to become more open about the Church and I feel eventually he would have started to attend, perhaps even join.  But his unexpected death in 1998 (three years after I had reactivated) from complications following surgery took away that possibility.

So a year following his death, I felt right about having the baptismal and temple ordinances performed on his behalf... one of the brothers from my ward acted as proxy for him.  And, I was sealed to him for time and eternity. 

Knowing my husband, I'm sure he has been taught the gospel and accepted the ordinances performed for him... and I fully expect that when I pass through the veil he will be waiting for me to begin our journey as eternal companions.

 

GG

[Ham Clam]

Sorry about that!

My best friend is married to a non-member (both in their 20's). He's a Baptist, and she really hopes he joins so they can have a temple sealing. Recently she told me that thinking about not being able to go to the temple with him makes her go into a depressive state.

I wanted to bring something back to her to talk about her options (I don't think he is going to convert and she flickers in activity herself even if she is a firm believer). I'd really like it if this was address in General Conference or in a Church publication.

Garden Girl that story is beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

[Garden Girl]

Hello Ham Clam...

Please share my story with your friend if you think it will help...

Also... they are very young... I know of several sisters in my ward whose husbands seemed... seemed... like they wouldn't join in a million years.  But because these sisters stayed faithful and set the example in their homes, continued to pray for their husbands to soften their  hearts, etc., eventually they did and were baptized.  They are still active today, one brother serving in the bishopric, etc.

What would have happened if I had stayed faithful instead of going inactive... my husband was softening as far as attending three years after I reactivated.  Then he died unexpectedly... perhaps he would have started attending years earlier if I had continued to live the gospel instead of going inactive.  I will never know.

If your friend's husband sees how important her religion is to her, it may have a real impact on him.  She can do so without pushing, or harping on the Church, etc.  Just quietly live the gospel with cheerfulness... invite him to attend ward social activities like Christmas parties, pioneer celebrations, valentines dances, community work projects, etc.  It may take years... but it can't hurt... in the meantime it benfits her too... 

 

GG

[Duncan]

I know a TON of people who married non members who eventually got sealed in the Temple unfortunately I know a TON of people who married non members who are out of the Church. One of the more interesting people is a lady who is now in her 80's. In 1976? Pres. N. Eldon Tanner of the First Presidency came here to dedicate a chapel. She was married to a non member and he is (was as he is deceased now) one of the best guys you'll ever want to know. Anyways, as I understand it, Pres. Tanner briefly met this lady at that time and she asked him what hope does she have of him converting and he just said that he won't join the Church here, which he didn't. Which, he wasn't there at the meeting and she never told him this. But he came to Church often enough and was in Cubs for years and years and helped so many people fix junk and stuff. So, like 20 plus years later they retired out to BC and they were then in their 70's? and he surprised her one day and said that he was getting baptized and they got sealed in the Temple just before he died. Granted that doesn't happen to everyone

 

Another story I heard happened in the mission that is kinda related to this. These two member ladies married non members fellas. The men always came to church and activities for years and years and didn't know that  each other was a non member and each assumed the other guy was a member. One time after some activity they were taking down chairs together and one guy said out loud something like, "Man, I need a Beer" and the other guy was shocked!!! and he said like "Mormons aren't supposed to drink!" and the other guy was like, " I am not Mormon" and they laughed and laughed went out and had beer together

Edited January 26, 2015 by Duncan

[Traela]

A lady in our ward who recently died was married to a non-member. He was, and still is, totally uninterested in the gospel. I never saw him at any activities. Perhaps he came when their children (all strong members) were doing something, but that would have been before my time. Anyway, they still had a very strong marriage. This sister's description of their marriage was, "I do my thing, and he does his thing, and sometimes we do things together." I am reasonably sure that their children will have them sealed after their father dies.

On the other hand, sometimes the non-member does convert. We had another mixed marriage in which the non-member eventually converted. It took 17 years and some stupid behavior that resulted in jail time and serious humbling, but it did happen.

[JAHS]

If your friend's nonmember husband dies, after a year has passed, she can have his temple ordinances performed (baptism, endowment, etc) and then she can be sealed to him with someone standing in for him as a proxy. 

 

https://help.familysearch.org/publishing/973/16024_f.SAL_Member.html

Edited January 26, 2015 by JAHS

[Stargazer]

A lady in our ward who recently died was married to a non-member. He was, and still is, totally uninterested in the gospel. I never saw him at any activities. Perhaps he came when their children (all strong members) were doing something, but that would have been before my time. Anyway, they still had a very strong marriage. This sister's description of their marriage was, "I do my thing, and he does his thing, and sometimes we do things together." I am reasonably sure that their children will have them sealed after their father dies.

On the other hand, sometimes the non-member does convert. We had another mixed marriage in which the non-member eventually converted. It took 17 years and some stupid behavior that resulted in jail time and serious humbling, but it did happen.

We have a few couples in our ward where the wife converted the husband -- or, he was converted after he investigated at her desire. But your story above is very much like another couple in our ward. Husband totally disinterested, and only showing up for certain activities (e.g. Christmas dinner), and almost never attending church. He was a nice guy, though and let his wife raise their children in the Church, no problem. One son went on a mission, a daughter married in the temple, and so on. Then the wife died in an accident at home, and after an interval of time, her widowed husband sold the house and moved away, so not even any further contact with the ward that knew him. Still totally disinterested.

I hate to be the bearer of uncomfortable facts, but will a man or a woman (my brother is married to a staunch atheist) who has essentially ignored the Gospel their entire lives be able to bear a celestial marriage when they couldn't bear the gospel?

As to those who are married to unbelieving spouses who are steadfast in their unbelief, I am convinced that their faithfulness to their spouse will be counted as righteousness, and thus they will be worthy of a great reward. But as for the unbelieving spouse I don't hold out much hope.

[Calm]

" But as for the unbelieving spouse I don't hold out much hope."

I think a lot depends on why they don't believe. I know one who grew up in a house of abuse and equates a God allowing suffering in the world to that abuse and thus has rejected God as existing.

I think this is very different than someone who rejects the gospel because they don't want responsibility or for a selfish reason.

[Avatar4321]

The scriptures say that the believing spouse sanctified the unbelieving spouse.

Last conference there was a talk on a woman married to a nonmembe husband. She asked what she should do. She was told to be patient and kind. She thought she had been patient enough. It was time to be kind. Her husband was baptized the next month

[juliann]

 

 

Recently she told me that thinking about not being able to go to the temple with him makes her go into a depressive state.

This is the real problem, not his ability to go to the temple. That is not fair to him.

[mfbukowski]

Can anyone tell me more about sealing people after they die?

Are there any talks by leaders out there about a member finally being sealed to a non-member after they died?

Thanks

 

I don't know if you got a direct answer to this or not.

 

The "non-member", after death, presumably would want to be sealed to his/her spouse, or of course the sealing would not be effective anyway.  We see such ordinances as an invitation to be accepted or rejected by the person on the other side, and clearly, as in all marriages, each person decides if they want to be sealed to the other or not.

 

BUT assuming the non-member did want to be sealed, they would in effect become a "convert" to the church in order to receive all the ordinances needed for exaltation.  So "non-members" don't get sealed- before sealing they would receive baptism, thereby making them members, and then they would receive the other ordinances just as they would have in life.

 

So if THAT was your question, I hope it helps.

[Stargazer]

" But as for the unbelieving spouse I don't hold out much hope."

I think a lot depends on why they don't believe. I know one who grew up in a house of abuse and equates a God allowing suffering in the world to that abuse and thus has rejected God as existing.

I think this is very different than someone who rejects the gospel because they don't want responsibility or for a selfish reason.

There are so many variables, of course there is no definitive answer. The best course of action is to marry only in the Temple -- yes, yes, I know that is no guarantee, either.

[Stargazer]

The scriptures say that the believing spouse sanctified the unbelieving spouse.

Last conference there was a talk on a woman married to a nonmembe husband. She asked what she should do. She was told to be patient and kind. She thought she had been patient enough. It was time to be kind. Her husband was baptized the next month

I don't actually know what that means: "...the believing spouse sanctified the unbelieving spouse..."

What is this "sanctification", then? Can it possibly mean that even though the unbelieving spouse never accepts the Gospel that they get a free pass to the Celestial Kingdom? I doubt this highly -- it would be great program, though! Sign me up! I can get exaltation through my wife while I completely ignore the Church and drink beer? Whoopie!

The sister that I spoke of who died in a home accident, whose husband never showed a scintilla of interest in the Church, was a kind and loving woman. I can't imagine that she wasn't kind to him.

[Kenngo1969]

WARNING: CANDOR ALERT!

 

I have a bad habit of being perfectly candid with people who ask me for this kind of advice.  If you're not wearing sufficient armor to take my candid advice, please stop reading now!

 

Presumably, you she married your her husband because you love she loves her husband enough as-is to spend the rest of her life with him.  I would hope that anyone in that situation went into it with eyes wide open. Temple ordinances are important; they are wonderful; but even as important and as wonderful as they are, even they don't provide a good enough excuse for one spouse to tell the other, "Honey, I know I said I loved you enough to marry you as you are, but ..."

 

My advice to you your friend is that, since she married her husband because she loves him, she should do exactly that, even if it means he never goes to the temple in this life.  The time to get depressed about the prospects of not being able to obtain temple ordinances with someone in this life was while you were still engaged to him and/or after you broke off the engagement as a result.  Absent abuse, addiction, or some other equally-grave situation in which one partner refuses to change, we love the people we marry and we commit to them ... no matter what.  And that's my advice: Love him.

 

Thanks for enduring to the end of this candid advice.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Avatar4321]

I don't actually know what that means: "...the believing spouse sanctified the unbelieving spouse..."What is this "sanctification", then? Can it possibly mean that even though the unbelieving spouse never accepts the Gospel that they get a free pass to the Celestial Kingdom? I doubt this highly -- it would be great program, though! Sign me up! I can get exaltation through my wife while I completely ignore the Church and drink beer? Whoopie!The sister that I spoke of who died in a home accident, whose husband never showed a scintilla of interest in the Church, was a kind and loving woman. I can't imagine that she wasn't kind to him.

I'm not entirely sure what it means myself. But Paul taught it

[Duncan]

And no one knows the thoughts and intents of the heart, some spouses join the Church just because their spouse is a member but they don't seem to be interested. In my current ward are two women married to guys who sometimes come to Church but haven't joined and maybe won't? but who knows

[Stargazer]

And no one knows the thoughts and intents of the heart, some spouses join the Church just because their spouse is a member but they don't seem to be interested. In my current ward are two women married to guys who sometimes come to Church but haven't joined and maybe won't? but who knows

In my current ward was a sister married to a nonmember, and he finally joined the Church, and is presently serving in the bishopric, and seems to have a very strong testimony. Another sister had a nonmember boyfriend and she told him that if he wanted to marry her then he had to gain a testimony of the Church and get baptized, and not only that, he would have to wait a full year until he could take her to the temple. And that's what he did. He's another one with a strong testimony, and is serving currently as our Elders Quorum President.

So, it can apparently work both ways.

And as I said earlier, there are those who "do it correctly" whose eternality doesn't in the end hold up. A certain sister who posts here has indicated that her change of heart with respect to the Church may leave her husband without her as an eternal companion in the end. So, it's clear that we are ALL in the position of "working out our salvation in fear and trembling," on this subject at least.

One strategy I have as someone who feels he leaves something to be desired with respect to being an exemplary husband is simply this: to outlive my wife so that she doesn't have a chance to find someone else better if I kick the bucket before her.

[VideoGameJunkie]

This is the only chance my mom and dad can be sealed since my dad is not a member and it doesn't look like he'll join in this lifetime.

[amp48]

When in my 20's I married a girl who was sealed to her deceased first husband. It was a nightmare and it didn't last. I would caution anyone against such a marriage.

 

I've heard now that it's probable that she will be sealed to all of her husbands after she dies, but the information I was getting at the time was miserable and very disconcerting. (Such as, any children of ours would belong to her first husband.) 

Anyhow, the hope of a marriage sealing after death might have done something to save our marriage but I guess I'll never know.

[amp48]

When in my 20's I married a girl who was sealed to her deceased first husband. It was a nightmare and it didn't last. I would caution anyone against such a marriage.

 

I've heard now that it's probable that she will be sealed to all of her husbands after she dies, but the information I was getting at the time was miserable and very disconcerting. (Such as, any children of ours would belong to her first husband.) 

Anyhow, the hope of a marriage sealing after death might have done something to save our marriage but I guess I'll never know.

Edit...I didn't mean to imply she would be sealed to me now that we are divorced. Just that if she married again and stayed with that man, then he might be sealed to her after she dies.

[thesometimesaint]

Edit...I didn't mean to imply she would be sealed to me now that we are divorced. Just that if she married again and stayed with that man, then he might be sealed to her after she dies.

 

Don't worry about it. No one will be married/Sealed to anyone they don't want to be married/Sealed too. It is ALL voluntary.

[JLHPROF]

Don't worry about it. No one will be married/Sealed to anyone they don't want to be married/Sealed too. It is ALL voluntary.

 

Now this I agree with.  But I also remember what Joseph Smith said to Brigham Young's sister - “Sister, you talk very foolishly, you do not know what you will want.”

 

I think that a huge number of us will rethink what we want in the eternities when all is revealed.