Robert F. Smith Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 For those who are interested, here are the actual reports: http://youthandreligion.nd.edu/research-findings/reports/I note that this series of reports comes out of Notre Dame, and have long been impressed with how seriously the Roman Catholic Church addresses problems: For example, when the high divorce rate became apparent, they did detailed studies as to why that might be so, and then took action to turn the stats around. They adopted a very thorough program to combat divorce. Since people who married after only a short engagement tended to get divorced far more than others, they sought to require delays in marriage for everyone. They required pre-marital counseling, and marriage training. They scheduled marriages for chapels or cathedrals out six months or more, with excellent results.
Robert F. Smith Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 .................................................................................................... . 5) We need to find a better structure for the (growing) gap between adolescence and parenthood. Missions are great, but frankly not long enough. In the modern world more and more education is required to provide for a family and gaining that education takes many years. We need to better way to bridge the gap between youth/missions and parenthood. Perhaps fewer lessons and more doing - replace some sunday school lessons with serving in food banks. Perhaps emphasizing examples of couples who choose to marry early even though they won't have kids for a while (thanks to the miracle of contraception). I really don't know. But I know we've created programs in the past to meet needs (primary, mutual, etc.) and I know we put lots of energy and money into our youth (church schools, missions, etc.).The ultra-Orthodox Jewish community (Chabad) deals with the problem by marrying their children off much earlier, at around age 18, and then making sure that they remain actively engaged in Tora-study and other community activities (see "The Chosen"). Amish follow a similar practice. The LDS practice used to be to send some young marrieds on missions. John L. Sorenson and his wife went to Polynesia on their very young mission, and Eugene England and his young wife the same. I know of less famous cases, including some of my relatives in the early 20th century.
VideoGameJunkie Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Youth leave because they never really had a true testimony of the gospel. They may get up during fast and testimony meeting when they were younger and have their parent tell them in their ear what to say, but they never really got their own testimony. I didn't get one until I was 16. 1
JLHPROF Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 They go where they are most comfortable. Faith, water and electricity follow the path of least resistance. They make friends, they find alternative faiths, they meet someone they fall in love with, they have issues with their parents. It's the same old story. And also, like Coreyb said, boredom. 1
The Nehor Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Youth leave because they never really had a true testimony of the gospel. They may get up during fast and testimony meeting when they were younger and have their parent tell them in their ear what to say, but they never really got their own testimony. I didn't get one until I was 16.Many had it and then lost it. Others wanted something else more.
Rob Osborn Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I see the problem as being worshiping worldliness and putting religion second. Nowadays we place education, jobs, etc, as being more important than God and religious duty. I have been working with the youth in various church callings for most of my adult life and have come to see a major shift in the family and where they place emphasis- in worldly things. We live in a predominantly LDS area and it is interesting that school programs are still scheduled and held in high esteem over church related activities such as Home Evening night and Mutual night. The main players making these decisions on the school boards are mainly LDS too. We place too much emphasis on school sports and other programs in the school and community that it has placed religion in second place. Mutual nights now are just kind of the reserve refuge place for the leftovers that dont have something else going on. We have 20+ young men and only 2-5 show up on mutual night and they usually just want the leaders to plan something fun for them. Our one school district did get it worked out to free up family home evening night but mutual night is still booked with a myriad of school sports activities and other things such as band, debate, dancing, etc. Its pretty much impossible anymore to run a decent mutual program for the youth. 1
The Nehor Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Regarding the study, I've several times recounted my experiences teaching the youth of the Church and my underwhelment with their knowledge of the gospel, Church history and doctrine. So suffice it to say I find it very easy to believe that between a desire to have sex and intellectual objections, I'm willing to believe that youth are struggling more with the former than the latter.Given the choice between fornication and intellectual analysis I know which one I would pick. 2
Ahab Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I see the problem as being worshiping worldliness and putting religion second. Nowadays we place education, jobs, etc, as being more important than God and religious duty. I have been working with the youth in various church callings for most of my adult life and have come to see a major shift in the family and where they place emphasis- in worldly things. We live in a predominantly LDS area and it is interesting that school programs are still scheduled and held in high esteem over church related activities such as Home Evening night and Mutual night. The main players making these decisions on the school boards are mainly LDS too. We place too much emphasis on school sports and other programs in the school and community that it has placed religion in second place. Mutual nights now are just kind of the reserve refuge place for the leftovers that dont have something else going on. We have 20+ young men and only 2-5 show up on mutual night and they usually just want the leaders to plan something fun for them. Our one school district did get it worked out to free up family home evening night but mutual night is still booked with a myriad of school sports activities and other things such as band, debate, dancing, etc. Its pretty much impossible anymore to run a decent mutual program for the youth.Not esteeming and not attending Church programs and services is not the same thing as leaving the Church. Those programs and activities and services are intended to be for the benefit of those who participate or at least attend but any member of the Church will remain a member in good standing even if they don't attend any meetings or services. So when we talk about leaving the Church we should understand that we're talking about withdrawing membership in the Church. Not just becoming inactive (no longer appropriate lingo) or less active in Church activities. I have 2 sons who are very much less active in Church activities and meetings but who are still very much active in actually living the gospel and still identify themselves as members of the Church. 1
cinepro Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 They go where they are most comfortable. Faith, water and electricity follow the path of least resistance. They make friends, they find alternative faiths, they meet someone they fall in love with, they have issues with their parents. It's the same old story. And also, like Coreyb said, boredom. 2
mnn727 Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Do we really make too much of it? I was under the impression that it was merely one of the common challenges facing youth. When the Bishop schedules a weekly or bi-weekly meeting with the youths with a self gratification issue, yes, I'd say its too much
Rob Osborn Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Not esteeming and not attending Church programs and services is not the same thing as leaving the Church. Those programs and activities and services are intended to be for the benefit of those who participate or at least attend but any member of the Church will remain a member in good standing even if they don't attend any meetings or services. So when we talk about leaving the Church we should understand that we're talking about withdrawing membership in the Church. Not just becoming inactive (no longer appropriate lingo) or less active in Church activities. I have 2 sons who are very much less active in Church activities and meetings but who are still very much active in actually living the gospel and still identify themselves as members of the Church. my point was that just by looking at one program, seeing it across the board- we are placing worldly values over God and religious duty.
MiserereNobis Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I see the problem as being worshiping worldliness and putting religion second. Nowadays we place education, jobs, etc, as being more important than God and religious duty. I have been working with the youth in various church callings for most of my adult life and have come to see a major shift in the family and where they place emphasis- in worldly things. We live in a predominantly LDS area and it is interesting that school programs are still scheduled and held in high esteem over church related activities such as Home Evening night and Mutual night. The main players making these decisions on the school boards are mainly LDS too. We place too much emphasis on school sports and other programs in the school and community that it has placed religion in second place. Mutual nights now are just kind of the reserve refuge place for the leftovers that dont have something else going on. We have 20+ young men and only 2-5 show up on mutual night and they usually just want the leaders to plan something fun for them. Our one school district did get it worked out to free up family home evening night but mutual night is still booked with a myriad of school sports activities and other things such as band, debate, dancing, etc. Its pretty much impossible anymore to run a decent mutual program for the youth. Are you advocating that schools, sports, etc, create their schedules based on when LDS youth programs meet? Edited December 31, 2014 by MiserereNobis
Rob Osborn Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Are you advocating that schools, sports, etc, create their schedules based on when LDS youth programs meet? I am saying that it is time that we as individuals stand up and place God and religion at the forefront of our lives and then collectively we would not have a scheduling conflict because the school and community would recognize that God and religion are actually more important and be conscious in scheduling activities around whats really important rather than what the school system does- they flat out are not more important. Edited December 31, 2014 by Rob Osborn 1
MiserereNobis Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I am saying that it is time that we as individuals stand up and place God and religion at the forefront of our lives and then collectively we would not have a scheduling conflict because the school and community would recognize that God and religion are actually more important and be conscious in scheduling activities around whats really important rather than what the school system does- they flat out are not more important. And which religion, exactly, should get the priority when it comes to school scheduling...? No sports on Fridays because of Muslims, no sports on Saturdays because of Jews, no sports on Sundays because of Christians, no sports on Mondays because of Family Home Evening, no sports on Wednesdays because of protestant youth nights, no sports on Tuesdays or Thursdays because of Mormon youth nights, no sports on....? 3
pogi Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 And which religion, exactly, should get the priority when it comes to school scheduling...? No sports on Fridays because of Muslims, no sports on Saturdays because of Jews, no sports on Sundays because of Christians, no sports on Mondays because of Family Home Evening, no sports on Wednesdays because of protestant youth nights, no sports on Tuesdays or Thursdays because of Mormon youth nights, no sports on....? I vote no school or work in respect of all of those religious observances. Paid leave that is. 1
Rain Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Are you advocating that schools, sports, etc, create their schedules based on when LDS youth programs meet? I think many programs could become smaller for "family" time. I loved that Texas put a limit of 8 hours per week on extracurricular activity. I would rather that each individual school made that determination, but when one or two schools decide to go over time then the other schools must do that as well to compete. So what I see are more and more organizations increasing practice etc. without a balance for family, church or anything else outside of school. But I also think that what family are doing outside of school ought to be taken into consideration. When my family lived in Memphis there were a ton of baptists. Wednesday night was youth night for them. I don't see anything wrong with schools thinking, "80% of our students have a conflict on Wednesday nights. Perhaps we should try not to schedule things on Wednesday." And you know what? That's what happened. So most of the wards in the area at the time also had YMYW on Wednesdays. The same thing could be said when a majority of the students are LDS for Monday nights. Or Friday for Muslims. Not that there can never be anything on the particular night, but at least the school/district could not have practices of only local things based on local majority conflicts. It's just common sense. 1
MiserereNobis Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I think many programs could become smaller for "family" time. I loved that Texas put a limit of 8 hours per week on extracurricular activity. I would rather that each individual school made that determination, but when one or two schools decide to go over time then the other schools must do that as well to compete. So what I see are more and more organizations increasing practice etc. without a balance for family, church or anything else outside of school. But I also think that what family are doing outside of school ought to be taken into consideration. When my family lived in Memphis there were a ton of baptists. Wednesday night was youth night for them. I don't see anything wrong with schools thinking, "80% of our students have a conflict on Wednesday nights. Perhaps we should try not to schedule things on Wednesday." And you know what? That's what happened. So most of the wards in the area at the time also had YMYW on Wednesdays. The same thing could be said when a majority of the students are LDS for Monday nights. Or Friday for Muslims. Not that there can never be anything on the particular night, but at least the school/district could not have practices of only local things based on local majority conflicts. It's just common sense. I do agree. Maybe I was just balking at the assumption that it should be based on LDS schedules, but of course, this is an LDS board and I think the poster I responded to (Rob Osborn) lives in an LDS area, so that was just silly of me, especially when I think how in Catholic areas (and countries) I certainly believe that Catholic holidays and observances should take precedence. My apologies for being contentious. Maybe it's time for me to have a New Year's Eve glass of wine Edited December 31, 2014 by MiserereNobis 3
Thinking Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 We live in a predominantly LDS area and it is interesting that school programs are still scheduled and held in high esteem over church related activities such as Home Evening night and Mutual night. The main players making these decisions on the school boards are mainly LDS too. We place too much emphasis on school sports and other programs in the school and community that it has placed religion in second place. Mutual nights now are just kind of the reserve refuge place for the leftovers that dont have something else going on. We have 20+ young men and only 2-5 show up on mutual night and they usually just want the leaders to plan something fun for them. Our one school district did get it worked out to free up family home evening night but mutual night is still booked with a myriad of school sports activities and other things such as band, debate, dancing, etc. Its pretty much impossible anymore to run a decent mutual program for the youth. In Utah with wards sharing buildings, mutual night can be Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. What would you have the schools do, schedule all activities on Friday or Saturday? And those other activities such as band or debate - what a waste of time! 1
bluebell Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Proselyting is in flux. Tracting has largely been eliminated as ineffective (I actually loved it on my mission; weird) and internet proselyting has not yet come to my area.The thing the missionaries value the most is teaching, but there simply are not that many teaching opportunities to fill up most of the schedules. I'm sure they'd rather teach than do yard work, but any work is more valuable than sitting around bored to death. Got it. Just wasn't sure what you were saying.
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 We have 20+ young men and only 2-5 show up on mutual night and they usually just want the leaders to plan something fun for them. Adult advisors to priesthood quorums should not be planning anything for young men. Quorum presidencies should be planning and conducting their own activities. This is key to having YM participate: they own the experience. It's also key to teaching the YM how to lead and serve. We can't out-fun the world, but we can certainly out-compete when it comes to seriously treating youth as real people capable of genuine leadership and decision-making. 2
Rob Osborn Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Adult advisors to priesthood quorums should not be planning anything for young men. Quorum presidencies should be planning and conducting their own activities. This is key to having YM participate: they own the experience. It's also key to teaching the YM how to lead and serve. We can't out-fun the world, but we can certainly out-compete when it comes to seriously treating youth as real people capable of genuine leadership and decision-making. Its all good if the youth show up. The problem is, they dont and when they do they arent really that interested in their own program. Every once in a while you get enough youth to show up, they have planned and lead correctly and everything works as planned. Problem is- those instances are too few and too far between. It changes year to year, from area to area depending the youth and the families they come from but in reality something such as "High School football season" can and does shut down a program quite effectively. About 10 years ago we had one year where every single scout was on the football team except for one. We pretty much had no program on mutual night for 3 months. I have had other groups where no one was on any club or team and we had a good program. The problem I see is how do you teach them to lead and serve when they dont really want it because they dont come and see other activities as more important.
Garden Girl Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 I do agree. Maybe I was just balking at the assumption that it should be based on LDS schedules, but of course, this is an LDS board and I think the poster I responded to (Rob Osborn) lives in an LDS area, so that was just silly of me, especially when I think how in Catholic areas (and countries) I certainly believe that Catholic holidays and observances should take precedence. My apologies for being contentious. Maybe it's time for me to have a New Year's Eve glass of wine There was a time Mis... that I would have joined you as we toasted in the New Year... but then I reactivated and of course started living the Word of Wisdom fully and actually gladly, although I always did enjoy a glass of good wine with dinner, etc during my inactive years... I live alone, and no one would ever know if I took a glass now and then... except me... and Heavenly Father... so I don't even go there. Tonight I'll just raise my glass of sparkling Cider as I do wish you well in the coming year... and everyone else on the Board. My prayer is that we will have a good New Year... from the beach on a chillly night... GG 2
MiserereNobis Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 There was a time Mis... that I would have joined you as we toasted in the New Year... but then I reactivated and of course started living the Word of Wisdom fully and actually gladly, although I always did enjoy a glass of good wine with dinner, etc during my inactive years... I live alone, and no one would ever know if I took a glass now and then... except me... and Heavenly Father... so I don't even go there. Tonight I'll just raise my glass of sparkling Cider as I do wish you well in the coming year... and everyone else on the Board. My prayer is that we will have a good New Year... from the beach on a chillly night... GG Happy New Year's Garden Girl... and may your beach be beautiful though cold 1
california boy Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 It comes down to self gratification, and more people are drawn to sin than find comfort in righteous living. I "experimented" when I was young too but I still ended up as a Mormon. Lots of regrets, but at least I learned some valuable lessons. Seems to me that more people choose to learn the hard way why it is good to live and love righteously.I think a lot of Momons like to blame the falling numbers to sex. But virtually every study in recent years actually show a falling of sexual activity in youth. So it doesn't really answer why numbers are falling. There are other reasons.
Thinking Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 I think many programs could become smaller for "family" time. I loved that Texas put a limit of 8 hours per week on extracurricular activity. I would rather that each individual school made that determination, but when one or two schools decide to go over time then the other schools must do that as well to compete. So what I see are more and more organizations increasing practice etc. without a balance for family, church or anything else outside of school. But I also think that what family are doing outside of school ought to be taken into consideration. When my family lived in Memphis there were a ton of baptists. Wednesday night was youth night for them. I don't see anything wrong with schools thinking, "80% of our students have a conflict on Wednesday nights. Perhaps we should try not to schedule things on Wednesday." And you know what? That's what happened. So most of the wards in the area at the time also had YMYW on Wednesdays. The same thing could be said when a majority of the students are LDS for Monday nights. Or Friday for Muslims. Not that there can never be anything on the particular night, but at least the school/district could not have practices of only local things based on local majority conflicts. It's just common sense. It's not as easy as you make it sound. First, at least two nights would have to be set aside for the LDS Church, Monday and Wednesday. Tuesday or Thursday would most likely need to be set aside also because most buildings are shared. Second, schools try to keep their own activities from happening on the same night as much as possible. There are various dance groups, sports teams, music groups, drama, debate, and others. Would you have them all just defer to the LDS Church before making their schedules?
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