Why Are Youth Leaving The Church?

[Scott Lloyd]

A highly illuminating blog post by John Gee of BYU and lately of the Maxwell Institute. Citing a published study, Professor Gee takes up the matter of the departure of LDS youth from the faith as they emerge into adulthood. Some highlights that stood out to me:

-- Though we lose far too many of our youth (about a third) we do significantly better at retention than do other religions.

-- Intellectual doubt arising from information obtained from the Internet and elsewhere is not a major causative factor in the loss of our young people and, when present at all, is apt to be combined with other factors, including, in some cases, the inclination to indulge in behavior incompatible with being a faithful member of the Church.

Here is the link to the blog post: http://fornspollfira.blogspot.com/2014/12/why-do-they-leave.html?m=1

Edited January 1, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[why me]

It also has to do with secular trends in society and the unfashionable idea that god exists. Also, we live in an impulse society where decisions are made on impulse and for many youth their impulse leads them in different directions from the lds church. It has to do with ideology, an ideology that seems to demand that young people should receive instant gratification from the choices that they make. The church seems to be the opposite of such trends.

 

http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/the-impulse-society-9781608198146/

 

About The Impulse Society

Paul Roberts' galvanizing, sweeping social critique of our Impulse Society confronts a world where business shamelessly seeks the fastest reward, regardless of the long-term social costs; where political leaders reflexively choose short-term fixes over broad, sustainable social progress; where individuals feel increasingly exploited by a marketplace obsessed with our private cravings but oblivious to our spiritual well-being or the larger needs of our families and communities. How did the pursuit of short-term self-gratification, once scorned as a sign of personal weakness, became the default principle not only for individuals but for all sectors of our society? Drawing on the latest research in economics, psychology, political philosophy, and business management, Roberts shows how a potent combination of rapidly advancing technologies, corrupted ideologies, and bottom-line business ethics has pushed us across a threshold to an unprecedented state: a virtual merging of the market and the self. And yet, even as our dilemma grows, The Impulse Society finds hopeful signs-not least, a revolt among everyday Americans against the forces of an unchecked market. Inspired by their example, Roberts outlines a way back to a world of real and lasting good.

- See more at: http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/the-impulse-society-9781608198146/#sthash.Jta0OMnL.dpuf

 

However, once they realize that their impulses may not be leading them to happiness they will return to the fold later.

Edited December 31, 2014 by why me

[Scott Lloyd]

And yet, religious groups that are less strict than our church in the forbidding of self-indulgence and hedonistic self-gratification are not doing any better, and in fact are doing worse at retaining their youth than are we. How does one account for that?

Edited January 1, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Bernard Gui]

Our two youngest sons have left the Church, removing their names and bitterly accusing Sister Gui and me of ruining their lives because we "indoctrinated" them, forced them to be baptized and to go to church activities. Drug use and other harmful activities preceded their departures and continue today. Their addiction and other problems have cost us dearly...emotionally and financially. Both sons are disfunctional...one is homeless and the other lives with his friends in another city. Neither is interested in nor capable of making plans for the future, seeking an education, or even getting a steady job. Those are aspects of our culture they reject.

For a long time we blamed ourselves for their choices, wondering what we did or did not do to cause such bitterness. After all, 5 other children who grew up in the same home have not left the Church and are living happy, productive lives. There have been some very sad days, weeks, and months. We have survived thanks to the LDS Family Services Family Support program. We are going on our 8th year as service missionaries hosting our stake LDSFS support group. It has been a lifesaver....literally....for us and many others in the same situation. I am saddened by the numbers of families going through this daunting experience.

We have come to a greater understanding of and love for the foundation gospel principles: humility, repentance, forgiveness, moral agency, temple promises, and the Atonement. It seems we have learned important lessons we could have learned no other way. I used to think I had all the answers down pat. I no longer feel that way. We have learned from Alma with his sons that our only recourse is to pray our sons will some day be brought to a knowledge of the truth. We have also learned much from Lehi and Sariah's failure to save their sons. In the meantime, we go day by day with hope in the Atonement and its promises to all of God''s children. After all, He loves them far more than we, and He will provide for them where we cannot.

How did we loose them? I can't answer that question.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[why me]

And yet, religious groups that are less strict than our church in the forbidding of self-indulgence and hedonistic self-gratification are not doing any better, and in fact are doing worse at retaining their youth than are we. How does ond account for that?

I  dont think that it has much to do with strictness but with the values that the impulse society imposes on people and the consequences of such impulses. It is an all encompassing ideology that affect many young and old alike. And it has to do with the ideology that we find ourselves living in. We are now being guided on impulse. For example, how many members read something about the church that they don't like and then leave the church based on their impulses? Many. No reflection may be involved.

 

Also, religion basically reminds people that their impulses should not be acted upon. Rather, religion can place 'retrictions' on impulses by causing people to reflect on their possible impulses or actions.

Edited December 31, 2014 by why me

[why me]

How did we loose them? I can't answer that question.

Knowing you from the boards, I don't think that you lost them. Most likely, they lost themselves and are blaming you and your wife for their own choices. This happens rather often when people can't accept their own choice mistakes. But they are also victims of a society that is consumed with drugs. There is something very alienating about a consumerist and impulse society.

 

Many people are left out, feeling marginalized because they don't have the means to act on impulses as others do. Lack of educatiion. Lack of a decent paying job. etc. We see daily images of people acting on impulse as a way to be happy. Hard not to feel alienated when one cannot partake of such 'happiness'.

[CV75]

And yet, religious groups that are less strict than our church in the forbidding of self-indulgence and hedonistic self-gratification are not doing any better, and in fact are doing worse at retaining their youth than are we. How does ond account for that?

Studies on this topic in earlier decades have concluded that familial, personal and private religious observation is the key to young adults remaining with the Church. I believe this is because the LDS Church is the only one that provides the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which proves to be an advantage that parents, families and youth in other churches do not enjoy.

This advantage is actually a tremendous expression of God’s grace that cannot be obtained in any other way than through the Restored Gospel. All we need to do is “look” (Alma 33:19, 20).

An example of the earlier studies: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1984/12/news-of-the-church?lang=eng

Edited December 31, 2014 by CV75

[mnn727]

I know of two youths in my ward that left due to sexual matters. I personally think we make too big of a deal out of self gratification.

[Buckeye]

Very good questions Scott. I'm glad to have some data even if it is not perfect (what data is?).  As I read Gee's blog posts I discovered that definitions matter a lot. In these studies, "lose" means that a person no longer identifies themselves as a member of the faith. So when Gee says that we are only losing 1/3 of our youth, he does not mean that 2/3 of the youth are active, just that 2/3 still identify as LDS. This is a crucial point because when Elder Jenson and others talk about the youth "leaving in droves" I don't think they are talking solely about identification or removing one's record, but they are also talking about activity rates. In my ward, activity rates (defined by attending once per quarter) are very high for primary children (85%+), drops during YM/YW (about 50%), and goes into the tank for young adults (about 5%). Overall we have about 35% active.

 

I agree with Gee that we lose a lot more youth (and members in general) to secularism than to other faiths. IMO, the primary reason for this is that our faith takes a harder "all or nothing stance" than many other faiths - we only recognize our authority for ordinances and teach that all other faiths are to one degree or another in apostasy. So it's not surprising that if someone decides to leave the LDS faith they usually are not leaving for another faith. This difference may also explain why, in my experience, LDS parents experience much more heartbreak when their children leave the faith than parents in other faiths. If a Lutheran parent has a child convert to Catholicism when she gets married to a Catholic, the parent may experience some loss, but nothing like what Brother Gui describes above.

 

That said, while historical issues may not be the primary driver for most members who leave, in my experience those issues (think of the essays) are the primary reason why highly engaged members - bishops, RS presidents, temple workers, missionaries, Hans Mattsson, etc - choose to leave. So from a pure "butts in the seats" perspective, secularism may be more of a concern than our history. But from a functional put-your-shoulder-to-wheel perspective, historical issues are very important.

 

FWIW, here are a few thoughts on what we can do better:

 

1) Give youth as many opportunities as possible to gain their own witness. Seminary, temple trips, sacrament talks, treks, etc - anything that stretches them and requires them to grow will pay off when they have to stand on their own some day. Generally speaking, I think we do this better than most other faiths and it's a primary reason why our results are better.

 

2) Reduce the "all or nothing" mentality. If youth disagree with the church on SSM or ear piercings, then focus on the teachings that do resonate with them. Some trees produce 100 fold, some 60 and some 30. Too often we take the view that if a youth (or member) won't accept 100% of the church teachings then they might as well reject them all, and too often that's exactly what ends up happening.

 

3) Reasonably expose the youth to difficult historical issues from the beginning. When I recently taught my YM a lesson on the first vision, I spent 5 minutes talking about the different versions and where they can find information on the church website. When I subbed in primary to teach about the BOM translation, I taught about the hat. Guess what? Nobody apostatized. 

 

4) Walk the talk on agency. Let our youth decide for themselves what they really believe. Yes, they don't get to choose the consequences, but many of the "consequences" are not natural results but parents and leaders' efforts to add more punishment in an effort to force obedience. If we really believe that our teachings are correct, we should be confident that the natural consequences will be severe enough to eventually convince sincere people of the error of their way. In the mean time, we should continue to send forth rain on the wicked and the righteous, just as God does.

 

5) We need to find a better structure for the (growing) gap between adolescence and parenthood. Missions are great, but frankly not long enough. In the modern world more and more education is required to provide for a family and gaining that education takes many years. We need to better way to bridge the gap between youth/missions and parenthood. Perhaps fewer lessons and more doing - replace some sunday school lessons with serving in food banks. Perhaps emphasizing examples of couples who choose to marry early even though they won't have kids for a while (thanks to the miracle of contraception). I really don't know. But I know we've created programs in the past to meet needs (primary, mutual, etc.) and I know we put lots of energy and money into our youth (church schools, missions, etc.).

[bluebell]

Maybe someone already talked about this, but i recently read a study that showed that the three best predictors of a youth still being active in the church as an adult were personal prayer, scripture study, and church attendance.

 

Do we have any stats on how many youth actually are reading their scriptures on their own, praying on their own, and coming to church, and still become inactive?  I'm wondering if the answer to keeping youth in the church really is this simple.

Edited December 31, 2014 by bluebell

[The Nehor]

Because temptation is genuinely tempting.

[Rain]

 

the NSYR found a statistical correlation on keeping religion and obeying the law of chastity

 

 

Doubts play a role in loss of belief and commitment but only in combination with other factors. (Smith and Snell, Souls in Transition, 229-31). For instance doubts play a role in the loss of faith of emerging adults only when faith did not play a big role in the teen's parents' lives, and the parents were lax in their church attendance, and faith already played less of a role in the teen's life, and is usually accompanied by the youth's less frequent religious devotion, i.e. prayer, church attendance and scripture reading (Smith and Snell, Souls in Transition, 229-30). In other words, doubt usually needs to be combined with other factors to come into play.[\quote]

 

I noticed these 2 things being a pattern on another non lds board with former lds members. I didn't see it right away, but little by little pieces from their lives Were revealed.

 

 

Bluebell said:

 

Maybe someone already talked about this, but i recently read a study that showed that the three best predictors of a youth still being active in the church as an adult were personal prayer, scripture study, and church attendance.

Do we have any stats on how many youth actually are reading their scriptures on their own, praying on their own, and coming to church, and still become inactive? I'm wondering if the answer to keeping youth in the church really is this simple.

 

It was a few years back, but there was some study done that went into a book, "Ten things wise parents know" (not sure on the name). I remember it saying that family scripture time was important, but personal scripture time was critical. I've seen the differences in my children on that though the oldest is only 20 right now.

 

I think one of the problems with that is school activities tend to be all consuming now days. I remember being in a number of activities and I was busy, but it was nothing like when my son was in marching band (and I also was in marching band). Band took up so much of DS life that somethings had to go. Scriptures was one of those things he chose to give up. He goes to church with us now ( and that is all he does), but I have no doubts he wouldn't go if he were on his own.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Rain

[cinepro]

5) We need to find a better structure for the (growing) gap between adolescence and parenthood. Missions are great, but frankly not long enough. In the modern world more and more education is required to provide for a family and gaining that education takes many years. We need to better way to bridge the gap between youth/missions and parenthood. Perhaps fewer lessons and more doing - replace some sunday school lessons with serving in food banks. Perhaps emphasizing examples of couples who choose to marry early even though they won't have kids for a while (thanks to the miracle of contraception). I really don't know. But I know we've created programs in the past to meet needs (primary, mutual, etc.) and I know we put lots of energy and money into our youth (church schools, missions, etc.).

 

It is my understanding that missionaries (in at least some missions) will be devoting much more of their time to non-proselyting service.  I think this could have a profoundly good effect as missionaries experience more of a "peace corps"/ serving others experience apart from the "search for someone to convert" aspect of their missions.

[cinepro]

For those who are interested, here are the actual reports:

 

http://youthandreligion.nd.edu/research-findings/reports/

 

 

[Tacenda]

Very good questions Scott. I'm glad to have some data even if it is not perfect (what data is?).  As I read Gee's blog posts I discovered that definitions matter a lot. In these studies, "lose" means that a person no longer identifies themselves as a member of the faith. So when Gee says that we are only losing 1/3 of our youth, he does not mean that 2/3 of the youth are active, just that 2/3 still identify as LDS. This is a crucial point because when Elder Jenson and others talk about the youth "leaving in droves" I don't think they are talking solely about identification or removing one's record, but they are also talking about activity rates. In my ward, activity rates (defined by attending once per quarter) are very high for primary children (85%+), drops during YM/YW (about 50%), and goes into the tank for young adults (about 5%). Overall we have about 35% active.

 

I agree with Gee that we lose a lot more youth (and members in general) to secularism than to other faiths. IMO, the primary reason for this is that our faith takes a harder "all or nothing stance" than many other faiths - we only recognize our authority for ordinances and teach that all other faiths are to one degree or another in apostasy. So it's not surprising that if someone decides to leave the LDS faith they usually are not leaving for another faith. This difference may also explain why, in my experience, LDS parents experience much more heartbreak when their children leave the faith than parents in other faiths. If a Lutheran parent has a child convert to Catholicism when she gets married to a Catholic, the parent may experience some loss, but nothing like what Brother Gui describes above.

 

That said, while historical issues may not be the primary driver for most members who leave, in my experience those issues (think of the essays) are the primary reason why highly engaged members - bishops, RS presidents, temple workers, missionaries, Hans Mattsson, etc - choose to leave. So from a pure "butts in the seats" perspective, secularism may be more of a concern than our history. But from a functional put-your-shoulder-to-wheel perspective, historical issues are very important.

 

FWIW, here are a few thoughts on what we can do better:

 

1) Give youth as many opportunities as possible to gain their own witness. Seminary, temple trips, sacrament talks, treks, etc - anything that stretches them and requires them to grow will pay off when they have to stand on their own some day. Generally speaking, I think we do this better than most other faiths and it's a primary reason why our results are better.

 

2) Reduce the "all or nothing" mentality. If youth disagree with the church on SSM or ear piercings, then focus on the teachings that do resonate with them. Some trees produce 100 fold, some 60 and some 30. Too often we take the view that if a youth (or member) won't accept 100% of the church teachings then they might as well reject them all, and too often that's exactly what ends up happening.

 

3) Reasonably expose the youth to difficult historical issues from the beginning. When I recently taught my YM a lesson on the first vision, I spent 5 minutes talking about the different versions and where they can find information on the church website. When I subbed in primary to teach about the BOM translation, I taught about the hat. Guess what? Nobody apostatized. 

 

4) Walk the talk on agency. Let our youth decide for themselves what they really believe. Yes, they don't get to choose the consequences, but many of the "consequences" are not natural results but parents and leaders' efforts to add more punishment in an effort to force obedience. If we really believe that our teachings are correct, we should be confident that the natural consequences will be severe enough to eventually convince sincere people of the error of their way. In the mean time, we should continue to send forth rain on the wicked and the righteous, just as God does.

 

5) We need to find a better structure for the (growing) gap between adolescence and parenthood. Missions are great, but frankly not long enough. In the modern world more and more education is required to provide for a family and gaining that education takes many years. We need to better way to bridge the gap between youth/missions and parenthood. Perhaps fewer lessons and more doing - replace some sunday school lessons with serving in food banks. Perhaps emphasizing examples of couples who choose to marry early even though they won't have kids for a while (thanks to the miracle of contraception). I really don't know. But I know we've created programs in the past to meet needs (primary, mutual, etc.) and I know we put lots of energy and money into our youth (church schools, missions, etc.).

(bold mine)

 

There is definitely a stigma against other faiths being a good choice, since they are all wrong or don't have all of the truth.  I remember speaking to some ladies in my ward and mentioning trying out a Bible Study, and the disdain they had for that was palpable.  The more we segregate ourselves from the rest of Christianity the more the members of our church will probably abstain from joining another faith.  This goes along with the topic "Why Are We Such Brittle Christians".      

[Teancum]

And yet, religious groups that are less strict than our church in the forbidding of self-indulgence and hedonistic self-gratification are not doing any better, and in fact are doing worse at retaining their youth than are we. How does ond account for that?

 

 

I think there is still an appeal to many people to be part of a religious tradition that is more strict and fundamental. There can be benefits to that especially for some with the right make up.

[Buckeye]

It is my understanding that missionaries (in at least some missions) will be devoting much more of their time to non-proselyting service.  I think this could have a profoundly good effect as missionaries experience more of a "peace corps"/ serving others experience apart from the "search for someone to convert" aspect of their missions.

 

I can't tell you how many times the Elders covering my area have asked if they can perform service at my house. At first I brushed them off because I have 5 kids who are able-bodied and the Elders have more important things to do than mow my lawn. But I finally relented and let them do yard work with my family for 2 hours this fall. It was the happiest I've seen the missionaries in some time. They seemed thrilled to be doing anything of value.

[bluebell]

They seemed thrilled to be doing anything of value.

 

Do you think they don't see the proselyting part of their mission as doing something of value?

[Buckeye]

Do you think they don't see the proselyting part of their mission as doing something of value?

 

Proselyting is in flux. Tracting has largely been eliminated as ineffective (I actually loved it on my mission; weird) and internet proselyting has not yet come to my area.

The thing the missionaries value the most is teaching, but there simply are not that many teaching opportunities to fill up most of the schedules. I'm sure they'd rather teach than do yard work, but any work is more valuable than sitting around bored to death.

[Coreyb]

One word, Boredom

[cinepro]

Do you think they don't see the proselyting part of their mission as doing something of value?

 

When I was a missionary, I saw teaching and baptizing as "something of value".  When I knocked on a door and no one was home, I saw it as a waste of time.

[Buckeye]

One word, Boredom

 

Coupled with the reality that there are more interesting/exciting/fulfilling options.

 

EDIT: or as Gee would describe them, sin.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Buckeye

[cinepro]

Regarding the study, I've several times recounted my experiences teaching the youth of the Church and my underwhelment with their knowledge of the gospel, Church history and doctrine.  So suffice it to say I find it very easy to believe that between a desire to have sex and intellectual objections, I'm willing to believe that youth are struggling more with the former than the latter.

[Ahab]

It comes down to self gratification, and more people are drawn to sin than find comfort in righteous living. I "experimented" when I was young too but I still ended up as a Mormon. Lots of regrets, but at least I learned some valuable lessons. Seems to me that more people choose to learn the hard way why it is good to live and love righteously.

[Robert F. Smith]

I know of two youths in my ward that left due to sexual matters. I personally think we make too big of a deal out of self gratification.

Do we really make too much of it?  I was under the impression that it was merely one of the common challenges facing youth.

 

I can recall Joseph Fielding Smith saying back in the early 1970s that the most common reason for apostasy of young adult LDS was their practice of sex outside of marriage, often termed fornication.  This is a much more important issue than self-gratification (masturbation), which does not entail trial and excommunication.