Free Byu?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

I don't know off hand what the admissions standards are. But if they include a minimum GPA and college entrance test score, people who couldn't meet those would be apt to look elsewhere.

 

Edited to add:

 

FYI. Here is a website that gives admission requirements for BYU-Idaho.

It looks like a minimum ACT score of 16 (or about the 23rd percentile) and a HS GPA of 2.0 are the minimum requirements.

http://www.byui.edu/admissions/what-type-of-applicant-am-i/new-freshman/step-1-review-admission-requirements

[HappyJackWagon]

 

It looks like a minimum ACT score of 16 (or about the 23rd percentile) and a HS GPA of 2.0 are the minimum requirements.

http://www.byui.edu/admissions/what-type-of-applicant-am-i/new-freshman/step-1-review-admission-requirements

Those are some pretty low standards compared to BYU. IIRC they have a standard ACT 27 & GPA 3.7 ish

[ALarson]

 Those are some pretty low standards compared to BYU. IIRC they have a standard ACT 27 & GPA 3.7 ish

When a couple of my kids went, the GPA needed to be even higher than that (this was awhile ago, so maybe it's changed).

 

I think to get into BYU-Hawaii (or maybe even BYU-Idaho?), one can have a lower ACT and GPA (or at least that's how it used to be).

[Buckeye]

When a couple of my kids went, the GPA needed to be even higher than that (this was awhile ago, so maybe it's changed).

 

I think to get into BYU-Hawaii (or maybe even BYU-Idaho?), one can have a lower ACT and GPA (or at least that's how it used to be).

 

Provo is still the hardest to get into, but it has gotten a little easier since the missionary age change. That may not last, though.

[jbarm]

BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii both have much different missions than the flagship BYU-Provo.

 

I've been in meetings with the past president of BYU-Idaho (Kim Clark, former dean of Harvard Business School) and he outlined the mission of BYU-I as one that reached out to academic late bloomers and non-traditional students.  Thus the lower entrance requirements and the like. 

 

Likewise BYU-Hawaii was designed to serve those groups from Polynesia and Asia that may not have the same educational advantages elsewhere. (Plus serve rich LDS kids who want to spend a semester on the beach).

 

jb

[HappyJackWagon]

 

BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii both have much different missions than the flagship BYU-Provo.

 

I've been in meetings with the past president of BYU-Idaho (Kim Clark, former dean of Harvard Business School) and he outlined the mission of BYU-I as one that reached out to academic late bloomers and non-traditional students.  Thus the lower entrance requirements and the like. 

 

Likewise BYU-Hawaii was designed to serve those groups from Polynesia and Asia that may not have the same educational advantages elsewhere. (Plus serve rich LDS kids who want to spend a semester on the beach).

 

jb

 

I knew there was a reason I wanted to be rich. The beach sounds pretty darn good!

[rockpond]

I'm not sure if this link will work but Free BYU has reported that they received a response to their complaint filed against BYU with NWCCU

 

Relevant quote in the letter from NWCCU:  "The Commission has determined that with respect to this matter, Brigham Young University is not out of compliance with the Commission's Standards for Accreditation and Eligibility Requirements." 

 

Free BYU plans to appeal.

[Scott Lloyd]

I'm not sure if this link will work but Free BYU has reported that they received a response to their complaint filed against BYU with NWCCU

 

Relevant quote in the letter from NWCCU:  "The Commission has determined that with respect to this matter, Brigham Young University is not out of compliance with the Commission's Standards for Accreditation and Eligibility Requirements." 

 

Free BYU plans to appeal.

:clapping:

 

Thanks for the update, Rockpond.

 

What is the avenue of appeal?

[Scott Lloyd]

:clapping:

 

Thanks for the update, Rockpond.

 

What is the avenue of appeal?

I posted this reply on the Facebook page:

Enrollment at BYU is a privilege, not a right. The privilege is conditioned upon adherence to contractual terms. If you fail to live up to the contract, it voids the privileges. It's that simple. It's not an issue of religious freedom, because there are plenty of options available to those who no longer are willing to live up to the contract. Arguably, some of those options would be a better fit for those who no longer support the mission of BYU.

 

[rockpond]

:clapping:

 

Thanks for the update, Rockpond.

 

What is the avenue of appeal?

 

Not a clue what the appeal process might be.

 

WRT to your comment posted on FB... I don't think that this is an accreditation issue but I do think that as BYU allows non-members who follow the honor code, I don't think the contract you refer to should prevent students from changing their religious affiliation from LDS to something else.

[Scott Lloyd]

Not a clue what the appeal process might be.

 

WRT to your comment posted on FB... I don't think that this is an accreditation issue but I do think that as BYU allows non-members who follow the honor code, I don't think the contract you refer to should prevent students from changing their religious affiliation from LDS to something else.

Those few non-members who enroll at BYU are admitted under a different structure and expectation than Church members who enroll. The university has the right to establish its own admission and continuing-enrollment standards.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[rockpond]

Those few non-members who enroll at BYU are admitted under a different structure and expectation than Church members who enroll. The university has the right to establish its own admission and continuing-enrollment standards.

 

I agree that they should be able to establish their own standards.  I just think that particular standard is odd given that their are no other prohibitions against changing your religion while attending BYU.

[Mormonmaniac]

It is wise that BYU has a policy in place to disallow wolves in sheeps clothing to destroy the school. Obviously, if one loses their eclesiastic endorsement its because they no longer agree with the LDS church. So, why should BYU allow students who have turned against them to extend a welcome hand to them? Thats like the shepherd who would take his sheep to the wolves.

[Scott Lloyd]

I agree that they should be able to establish their own standards.  I just think that particular standard is odd given that their are no other prohibitions against changing your religion while attending BYU.

I'm not a member of the BYU Board of Trustees, and they don't consult me on their decisions, nor am I privy to their decision-making process, but I surmise the thinking is something along these lines:

 

BYU exists primarily to serve some of the best and brightest of the young Church members who, it is hoped, will take the education and edification they receive there to go on and be a credit to the Church and to help "build the Kingdom" and "establish Zion," as it were.

 

Along the way, the university does make a tiny number of enrollment slots available to non-members who they hope and expect will do well while enrolled there and will go on to be a credit to the university. For whatever reason, the university prefers to offer these few slots to those who have never belonged to the Church as opposed to those who have at one time accepted membership in the Church with all that entails, including the making of sacred covenants, and then apostatized from it.

 

And I've said this before, but as a Church member and a full-tithe payer (and tuition covers only a fraction of the cost of enrollment; the rest is made up from the tithing funds of the Church)  I would desire and expect that the university would not allow those who have apostatized to remain and occupy scarce enrollment slots that could be offered to some among the untold numbers of faithful Church members who would be more than willing to live up to the conditions of enrollment.

[Gray]

It is wise that BYU has a policy in place to disallow wolves in sheeps clothing to destroy the school. Obviously, if one loses their eclesiastic endorsement its because they no longer agree with the LDS church. So, why should BYU allow students who have turned against them to extend a welcome hand to them? Thats like the shepherd who would take his sheep to the wolves.

 

Is there any policy in place at BYU preventing an anti-Mormon evangelical from attending? 

[Mormonmaniac]

Is there any policy in place at BYU preventing an anti-Mormon evangelical from attending?

Yes, have you read the honor code- http://registrar.byu.edu/catalog/2014-2015ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php

[KevinG]

To add some perspective to the "losing faith" position.  When I was in a married student ward we had plenty of students who were in some sort of church disciplinary status who were still allowed to continue their degree.  We even had a couple of inactive members who we visited and encouraged to return to the church.  In none of these cases was someone "kicked out" for their human struggles with faith.

 

In my experience it took a pretty open stance against the church, or very serious transgressions to get one removed from BYU due to lack of ecclesiastical endorsement.

[rockpond]

It is wise that BYU has a policy in place to disallow wolves in sheeps clothing to destroy the school. Obviously, if one loses their eclesiastic endorsement its because they no longer agree with the LDS church. So, why should BYU allow students who have turned against them to extend a welcome hand to them? Thats like the shepherd who would take his sheep to the wolves.

 

Who said anything about "wolves in sheep's clothing"?

 

If a BYU student who is LDS decides that they no longer believe and they resign their membership to join the Catholic church (for example), they can be expelled.

[KevinG]

If a BYU student who is LDS decides that they no longer believe and they resign their membership to join the Catholic church (for example), they can be expelled.

 

If they play football well they can always finish up at Notre Dame.  

[rockpond]

I'm not a member of the BYU Board of Trustees, and they don't consult me on their decisions, nor am I privy to their decision-making process, but I surmise the thinking is something along these lines:

 

BYU exists primarily to serve some of the best and brightest of the young Church members who, it is hoped, will take the education and edification they receive there to go on and be a credit to the Church and to help "build the Kingdom" and "establish Zion," as it were.

 

Along the way, the university does make a tiny number of enrollment slots available to non-members who they hope and expect will do well while enrolled there and will go on to be a credit to the university. For whatever reason, the university prefers to offer these few slots to those who have never belonged to the Church as opposed to those who have at one time accepted membership in the Church with all that entails, including the making of sacred covenants, and then apostatized from it.

 

And I've said this before, but as a Church member and a full-tithe payer (and tuition covers only a fraction of the cost of enrollment; the rest is made up from the tithing funds of the Church)  I would desire and expect that the university would not allow those who have apostatized to remain and occupy scarce enrollment slots that could be offered to some among the untold numbers of faithful Church members who would be more than willing to live up to the conditions of enrollment.

 

It's not an unreasonable position to take.  And I am not supporter of Free BYU (in case that was unclear).  I just think expulsion (and the educational setback that accompanies it) is a rather harsh punishment for a student at BYU who may sincerely believe that a different church is the right spiritual home for them.  Hopefully what KevinG said is correct -- that such action is only taken when one is publicly antagonistic.

[KevinG]

It's not an unreasonable position to take.  And I am not supporter of Free BYU (in case that was unclear).  I just think expulsion (and the educational setback that accompanies it) is a rather harsh punishment for a student at BYU who may sincerely believe that a different church is the right spiritual home for them.  Hopefully what KevinG said is correct -- that such action is only taken when one is publicly antagonistic.

 

Let me qualify and say my experience was extended to a few Stakes at BYU.  I don't know how all Ecclesiastical leaders handled these situations.

[Gray]

Yes, have you read the honor code- http://registrar.byu.edu/catalog/2014-2015ucat/GeneralInfo/HonorCode.php

 

What specifically are you referring to?

[Scott Lloyd]

It's not an unreasonable position to take. And I am not supporter of Free BYU (in case that was unclear). I just think expulsion (and the educational setback that accompanies it) is a rather harsh punishment for a student at BYU who may sincerely believe that a different church is the right spiritual home for them. Hopefully what KevinG said is correct -- that such action is only taken when one is publicly antagonistic.

Well, I would think that from the standpoint of the Church, resignation from it is and ought to be viewed as a grave act not to be taken lightly.

And I suppose someone now is going to pull up President Uchtdorf's talk and wave it in my face. I would just say that, as kind and conciliatory as he may have seemed in that talk, there are privileges that accompany membership in the Church of Jesus Christ, and those privileges ought to be reserved for such.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[mormonnewb]

I agree that they should be able to establish their own standards.  I just think that particular standard is odd given that their are no other prohibitions against changing your religion while attending BYU.

 

You don't remember in scripture where Christ said, "A deal is a deal.  Too bad for you"?  Strangely, me neither.   Yes, BYU has the RIGHT to make its students agree to just about any darn thing.  It could make them agree to hop around campus on one foot should it choose.  And those who graduate would have ONE very strong calf muscle, but they'd probably not be much good for anything else.

 

So, yes, BYU can extract its pound of flesh and hold people to promises that they made at 17 years old.  But perhaps, an institution of "higher learning" SHOULD make allowances for the fact that, upon being exposed to new information, a young person's world view may change.  I think there's a word for that process.  It's called EDUCATION.

[Scott Lloyd]

Is there any policy in place at BYU preventing an anti-Mormon evangelical from attending? 

I don't know of a policy as such, but I should think an anti-Mormon of any stripe would not be welcome there. I would be very unsettled if there were.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Scott Lloyd