New Message Board, Mormon Women Connect

[Rain]

Not that my male opinion may matter, but I think the exchange between Cal and Erin underscores the need for a board dedicated to women, though not for the reason suggested.

For many a millennium men and women have been somewhat forced familialy and societaly to work out their differences. And, while much progress has been made, and some progress is yet to be made in that regard, perhaps midst the long and highly publicized so-called battle between the sexes a much bigger relational war wages between members of the fairer sex, which remains generally un-addressed and about which many may be oblivious, be it between mothers and daughters or between women that are not blood relations.

So, I for one heartily encourage such a board, not so much as a safe place for women to be protected from men, but a viable place for women to work out their differences between each other.

And, no, I am not fond of cat fights. I truly believe that the Cal's and Erin's of the world can find ways to make peace and get along and enrich each others lives even given their differences.

Maybe, just maybe, they may learn something from men in the way they have learned to get along with women. Who knows?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade, I'm really trying hard not to be snarky about your post. I'm just surprised that you think there has been little said and taught about female to female conversation and relationships and working things out. There are MANY books and movies, fictional and not, that address this.

I can't tell you how much time I have spent in these relational female to female activities - tying quilts, eating ice cream, lunch in homes, talking on the phone for hours, on the playground, at education week between classes and afterwards, through internet groups, during presidency meetings, visiting teaching etc.

I do think women can learn from men on this matter (and men could learn from women), but to say female/female conversations/relationship building systems etc. are lacking in comparison to male/female and male/male is just ignorant of or ignoring a huge part of what goes on in society.

Eta: I think there is a lot of work to be done, but it is not because society has ignored it. It is because specific women (me included) still need to work on skills, just as specific individuals need to do this in all types of relationships.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Rain

[bluebell]

Not that my male opinion may matter, but I think the exchange between Cal and Erin underscores the need for a board dedicated to women, though not for the reason suggested.

For many a millennium men and women have been somewhat forced familialy and societaly to work out their differences. And, while much progress has been made, and some progress is yet to be made in that regard, perhaps midst the long and highly publicized so-called battle between the sexes a much bigger relational war wages between members of the fairer sex, which remains generally un-addressed and about which many may be oblivious, be it between mothers and daughters or between women that are not blood relations.

So, I for one heartily encourage such a board, not so much as a safe place for women to be protected from men, but a viable place for women to work out their differences between each other.

And, no, I am not fond of cat fights. I truly believe that the Cal's and Erin's of the world can find ways to make peace and get along and enrich each others lives even given their differences.

Maybe, just maybe, they may learn something from men in the way they have learned to get along with women. Who knows?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Are you serious Wade?

With the constant number of fights that go down on the board between males you think it's appropriate to suggest that women need a place to learn how to talk to each other but have never made the same suggestion about men?

And to call the exchange between cal and Erin a cat fight is extremely sexist and degrading. If that is an example of how men have learned to speak to women, then you should be embarrassed to have suggested that men have any clue of how to speak to members of the opposite sex.

[mtomm]

Not that my male opinion may matter, but I think the exchange between Cal and Erin underscores the need for a board dedicated to women, though not for the reason suggested.

 

For many a millennium men and women have been somewhat forced familialy and societaly to work out their differences. And, while much progress has been made, and some progress is yet to be made in that regard, perhaps midst the long and highly publicized so-called battle between the sexes a much bigger relational war wages between members of the fairer sex, which remains generally un-addressed and about which many may be oblivious, be it between mothers and daughters or between women that are not blood relations.

 

So, I for one heartily encourage such a board, not so much as a safe place for women to be protected from men, but a viable place for women to work out their differences between each other.

 

And, no, I am not fond of cat fights. I truly believe that the Cal's and Erin's of the world can find ways to make peace and get along and enrich each others lives even given their differences.

 

Maybe, just maybe, they may learn something from men in the way they have learned to get along with women. Who knows?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Is this an example of being "mansplained" and why men are invited to have a limited role on the new message board?  

[wenglund]

Wade, I'm really trying hard not to be snarky about your post. I'm just surprised that you think there has been little said and taught about female to female conversation and relationships and working things out. There are MANY books and movies, fictional and not, that address this.

I can't tell you how much time I have spent in these relational female to female activities - tying quilts, eating ice cream, lunch in homes, talking on the phone for hours, on the playground, at education week between classes and afterwards, through internet groups, during presidency meetings, visiting teaching etc.

I do think women can learn from men on this matter (and men could learn from women), but to say female/female conversations/relationship building systems etc. are lacking in comparison to male/female and male/male is just ignorant of or ignoring a huge part of what goes on in society.

Eta: I think there is a lot of work to be done, but it is not because society has ignored it. It is because specific women (me included) still need to work on skills, just as specific individuals need to do this in all types of relationships.

 

I can only speak from my own limited perspective, and from what I have observed as a general rule women have an easier time getting along with men than with other women, particularly when living under the same roof. But, I can appreciate if your experience is different.

 

Surely, though, the interaction between Cal and Erin suggests that my observations aren't entirely without merit, as also my reasons for applauding an all female board.

 

Either way, I hope my encouraging the new board wont cause much consternation.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Are you serious Wade?

With the constant number of fights that go down on the board between males you think it's appropriate to suggest that women need a place to learn how to talk to each other but have never made the same suggestion about men?

And to call the exchange between cal and Erin a cat fight is extremely sexist and degrading. If that is an example of how men have learned to speak to women, then you should be embarrassed to have suggested that men have any clue of how to speak to members of the opposite sex.

 

Yes, I was serious, but evidently wrong. I should have remembered that women are perfect and always right and have no room for improvement. The new board then can, as intimated, simply be a place for women to escape from the imperfections of men and revel together in female perfectness.  

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Is this an example of being "mansplained" and why men are invited to have a limited role on the new message board?  

 

Evidently, and rightly so. We men forget at times that since we aren't women we can't possibly understand or really know women, let alone the relationships between women, and so it is best that we remain relatively silent when it comes to women's issues (i.e. issues that women have with men, though certainly not with each other).

 

Please ignore my initial and second post. Both were the mindless bleating of an animal momentarily out of control. For the sake of female safety, I am now putting myself back in go-along-to-get-along mode. 

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[juliann]

Is this an example of being "mansplained" and why men are invited to have a limited role on the new message board?  

 

Yes.

 

I really appreciate Why Me's comments and I am very disappointed in Wade. Wow, there is a lot of hostility toward women in those comments.

 

I can see how such a board is very threatening to mansplainers, but so no one is confused about his strawman, men are quite welcome to participate. Nofear is having no problems integrating.

[bluebell]

Yes, I was serious, but evidently wrong. I should have remembered that women are perfect and always right and have no room for improvement. The new board then can, as intimated, simply be a place for women to escape from the imperfections of men and revel together in female perfectness.  

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Yes, you were dead wrong to call a disagreement between women a 'cat-fight', and you were dead wrong to suggest that one disagreement between two women shows that women need to learn how to talk to each other.

 

The rest of the post is completely irrelevant and just deflection.  

[MorningStar]

Cal has always been the model of restraint on this board, so it's silly to say that she's in a "cat fight" with a woman who flat out insulted her without attempting to understand her point of view.

 

I, on the other hand, am a hair puller. 

[wenglund]

Yes, you were dead wrong to call a disagreement between women a 'cat-fight', and you were dead wrong to suggest that one disagreement between two women shows that women need to learn how to talk to each other.

 

The rest of the post is completely irrelevant and just deflection.  

 

You are so right in everything you said. Clearly, as Juliann claims, I have a lot of hostility towards women as evinced by audaciously thinking that women have disagreements and that a women's discussion board would be good for working out those non-existent disagreements. I must have been out of my irrelevant and deflective mind. 

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited July 21, 2014 by wenglund

[wenglund]

Since I am a man, and even though I was the one who said the phrase "cat fight," and should know what I was referring to, women obviously know better than me what I was thinking, and I am obviously wrong in believing that I didn't have the specific dispute between Cal and Erin in mind, but rather the presumed hostility that may exist between women--which I now have humbly learned is a fantasy in my mind. All is peaches and cream among the fairer sex.

 

And, I apologize in advance for using the phrases "peaches and cream" and "fairer sex" since they are likely sexists in ways my neanderthal male mind will never comprehend.

 

Everything has been my bad.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-.

Edited July 21, 2014 by wenglund

[bluebell]

You are so right in everything you said. Clearly, as Juliann claims, I have a lot of hostility towards women as evinced by audaciously thinking that women have disagreements and that a women's discussion board would be good for working out those non-existent disagreements. I must have been out of my irrelevant and deflective mind. 

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Glad you agree.

[watermelongirl]

Not that my male opinion may matter, but I think the exchange between Cal and Erin underscores the need for a board dedicated to women, though not for the reason suggested.

 

For many a millennium men and women have been somewhat forced familialy and societaly to work out their differences. And, while much progress has been made, and some progress is yet to be made in that regard, perhaps midst the long and highly publicized so-called battle between the sexes a much bigger relational war wages between members of the fairer sex, which remains generally un-addressed and about which many may be oblivious, be it between mothers and daughters or between women that are not blood relations.

 

So, I for one heartily encourage such a board, not so much as a safe place for women to be protected from men, but a viable place for women to work out their differences between each other.

 

And, no, I am not fond of cat fights. I truly believe that the Cal's and Erin's of the world can find ways to make peace and get along and enrich each others lives even given their differences.

 

Maybe, just maybe, they may learn something from men in the way they have learned to get along with women. Who knows?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

I'm coming out of the woodwork to provide another witness for this one Brother Englund. Your comments very ironically demonstrate why a woman's board is needed and it certainly isn't for the reason you gave.

 

This board thrives on disagreements, but one dramatic one between two women gets characterized as a "cat fight?" Do you have a similar characterization for when men argue dramatically on the board? (Seriously, don't make me go dig up examples.) Have you ever pointed it out to the offending brethren and used it as an example to tell all of the men here that their disagreements demonstrate the need for a whole separate board in which to learn to talk to one another?

 

Women disagree. Women get along. We do more of the latter than the former to be frank.

 

When your negative generalizations were called out, you could have either 1) sincerely apologized or 2) argued your point with logic and clarity.The fact that you react to criticisms with vitriolic, vainglorious sarcasm demonstrates well the need that women have for their own space in which to carry on a conversation.

[Nofear]

You are so right in everything you said. Clearly, as Juliann claims, I have a lot of hostility towards women as evinced by audaciously thinking that women have disagreements and that a women's discussion board would be good for working out those non-existent disagreements. I must have been out of my irrelevant and deflective mind. 

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I think the more appropriate response would have been to seek understanding why multiple women took offense at your comments. For my own part, male though I be, I see your post #74, the start of this little firestorm as mischaracterizing the purpose of the Mormon Women Connect (one can and should read the mission statement) and hence the "endorsement" was actually counter-productive. Instead of buckling down as you did (culminating in vociferous sarcasm) my suggestion would be seek understanding as to why.

 

Why I personally generally haven't had problems with your posts... what I can say is that there are sisters who find the nature of "dialogue" on this board a turn off. Some I know personally.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Nofear

[Nofear]

Note, lest we forget, many sisters can well say the following    :

[The Nehor]

Well done Wade. It would be difficult to come up with a more snarky post followed by such a disingenuous defense. I take my hat off to you. Unless you were serious in your first post in which case you are an idiot.

[jwhitlock]

Well done Wade. It would be difficult to come up with a more snarky post followed by such a disingenuous defense. I take my hat off to you. Unless you were serious in your first post in which case you are an idiot.

 

Just as an FYI, Wade has evidently been banned from the thread and won't be able to reply.

 

Yes. Now everyone can go back to the topic.

[why me]

I will be interested to see just how this new board will function as it grows and expands. And whether the founders will be able to control the ideas that will come to the board or will they lose control of the board through bannings of women who may be radical feminist in nature or who may be challenging the lds church, which would destroy the solidarity of the board. I don't think that it will be easy to be a moderator on the board as it grows.

 

I remember the feministmormonhousewives site...it started as a nice site for lds women to communicate with each other, mainly made up of active lds women discussing innocent issues. And now....it is much different.  

 

On a different note, I have tried to register to the board but am not able to. I cannot activate my membership. Should I contact the administrator?

[watermelongirl]

I will be interested to see just how this new board will function as it grows and expands. And whether the founders will be able to control the ideas that will come to the board or will they lose control of the board through bannings of women who may be radical feminist in nature or who may be challenging the lds church, which would destroy the solidarity of the board. I don't think that it will be easy to be a moderator on the board as it grows.

 

I remember the feministmormonhousewives site...it started as a nice site for lds women to communicate with each other, mainly made up of active lds women discussing innocent issues. And now....it is much different.  

 

On a different note, I have tried to register to the board but am not able to. I cannot activate my membership. Should I contact the administrator?

 

why me I tried to send you a PM here on MDDB about the problem, but I got a message that said you couldn't receive any new messages.

[Stargazer]

Unfortunately she is deceased now.

I would be curious to hear your opinion of this person:

http://understandmen.com/

 

I am a little confused, mb.  You wrote of your wife in the present tense as a wonderful woman and so on, and then you say she is deceased?  Or did I get confused?

[Guest]

And men are very welcome if they aren't there to argue or tell women what they should be doing or thinking.  I am hoping that men who have had experience in leadership can explain what their ward or stake have done to involve women.

What about those with life's experience as well?

[mfbukowski]

I am a little confused, mb.  You wrote of your wife in the present tense as a wonderful woman and so on, and then you say she is deceased?  Or did I get confused?

Maybe it was the way I phrased it.  No thank God my sweetie is not deceased. 

 

I meant that the woman the Bishop called as a special assistant is now deceased.  That woman was not my wife.

[mfbukowski]

Maybe it was the way I phrased it.  No thank God my sweetie is not deceased. 

 

I meant that the woman the Bishop called as a special assistant is now deceased.  That woman was not my wife.

Holy cow- I see now how you got confused.  I think that I thought Cal was talking about a person we might have been discussing on another thread who was called to be a special assistant to the bishop, and that Cal was requesting that she post here.

 

In fact, I think Cal was suggesting that my wife post here.

 

Ooops! 

[Calm]

I can't remember who I meant...I think it was your wife but I am not sure.

[Jeanne]

I will give you all a common enemy so that you can all get along again.  As for a woman's thread/board..let the men join.  How will they ever understand if they don't?

As for the women on this board..be deep down honest with your true self.  If you have held a baby in your arms then you should bless it.  If you have helped, serve in organizations that move a ward/stake forward, you should be leaders of them.  Nothing to do with gender..patriarchy..but with love and blessings to bring forth you are and can be a better asset to the generation you have given birth to.  Ban me if you want, but it should never...nerver..never..be a condition on spouses for eternal salvation.  We are individuals first and foremost whether daughters or sons of God.  Individual thoughts and ideas that are vast and teachable..you can disagree but with the wisdom of at least learning to understand.