Can A Psychic Healer/exorcist Be Accepted By Mormons?

[kundalinisnakes]

I'm a sincere open hearted seeker, looking for the truth.  Mormons claim that they have a special power that is better than others called the priesthood, that gives them exclusive authority to have certain spiritual powers.  With this power, miracles occur such as healings, prophecy, and various spiritual gifts.  My question and dilemma is that I am a psychic healer already.  I am an exorcist.  I am psychic, I see the future sometimes, I see spirits, I channel angels that assist me, and together we pull demons and bad human spirits off of people and heal those people.  The same as Jesus did.  I see auras, I have many spiritual gifts.

 

How can my spiritual gifts and power be reconciled with the exclusivity of the priesthood power?  These gifts have nothing to do with gender.  Also not just me only, but I know many other healers that have legitimate power that cleanses and heals other human souls.  Some of these people are christian faith healers, some are non christian shamans and medicine people.  Some are energy workers, such as reiki masters and other methods.  We have power gifted to us to do this spirit healing work.  It has nothing to do with mormon authority or priesthood.  

 

How can I possibly be mormon?  It seems that mormons deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have, and say that any other power that is not mormon comes from Satan.  (Jesus was accused of this too by the Jews).  I say, how can this be true if the hearings work?  By their fruits ye shall know them Jesus said, not by what a priesthood authority said.  They can say whatever they want but what is authority?  What authority does the priesthood have to say that their gift of the Holy Ghost is better than the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have?  Who are they to judge?  I don't deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that the mormons have, they certainly have many spiritual gifts, but why do they deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that others have, because it is not done through the "proper priesthood channels"?  

 

I can't deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost I have, it is impossible.  It is proven.  I have mountains of evidence, called "fruits" that I cannot deny.  Yet the mormons would deny them, and deny me since I don't have the priesthood?  How can a mormon reconcile this?  I want a good scholarly answer here.  I'm pretty sure this question stumps all mormons, and it would in fact stump the prophets and apostles.  If you are not stumped then please provide an intelligent response.  Like I said, this is no trick, I am sincere, and would be mormon if they would accept me.  They deny my gifts and will not.  I want to know why.  

 

I feel akin to Joseph Smith, only in this case, I am "Joseph Smith" who has miraculous mystical visions, and instead of the other churches not believing me (like was the case with Joseph) it's the mormon church who rejects me.  What's the difference?  The denominations of Smith's day wouldn't accept a prophet that was not of their faith.  Mormons won't accept a prophet that is not of their faith?  Why? 

[CV75]

 

I'm a sincere open hearted seeker, looking for the truth.  Mormons claim that they have a special power that is better than others called the priesthood, that gives them exclusive authority to have certain spiritual powers.  With this power, miracles occur such as healings, prophecy, and various spiritual gifts.  My question and dilemma is that I am a psychic healer already.  I am an exorcist.  I am psychic, I see the future sometimes, I see spirits, I channel angels that assist me, and together we pull demons and bad human spirits off of people and heal those people.  The same as Jesus did.  I see auras, I have many spiritual gifts.

 

How can my spiritual gifts and power be reconciled with the exclusivity of the priesthood power?  These gifts have nothing to do with gender.  Also not just me only, but I know many other healers that have legitimate power that cleanses and heals other human souls.  Some of these people are christian faith healers, some are non christian shamans and medicine people.  Some are energy workers, such as reiki masters and other methods.  We have power gifted to us to do this spirit healing work.  It has nothing to do with mormon authority or priesthood.  

 

How can I possibly be mormon?  It seems that mormons deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have, and say that any other power that is not mormon comes from Satan.  (Jesus was accused of this too by the Jews).  I say, how can this be true if the hearings work?  By their fruits ye shall know them Jesus said, not by what a priesthood authority said.  They can say whatever they want but what is authority?  What authority does the priesthood have to say that their gift of the Holy Ghost is better than the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have?  Who are they to judge?  I don't deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that the mormons have, they certainly have many spiritual gifts, but why do they deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that others have, because it is not done through the "proper priesthood channels"?  

 

I can't deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost I have, it is impossible.  It is proven.  I have mountains of evidence, called "fruits" that I cannot deny.  Yet the mormons would deny them, and deny me since I don't have the priesthood?  How can a mormon reconcile this?  I want a good scholarly answer here.  I'm pretty sure this question stumps all mormons, and it would in fact stump the prophets and apostles.  If you are not stumped then please provide an intelligent response.  Like I said, this is no trick, I am sincere, and would be mormon if they would accept me.  They deny my gifts and will not.  I want to know why.  

 

I feel akin to Joseph Smith, only in this case, I am "Joseph Smith" who has miraculous mystical visions, and instead of the other churches not believing me (like was the case with Joseph) it's the mormon church who rejects me.  What's the difference?  The denominations of Smith's day wouldn't accept a prophet that was not of their faith.  Mormons won't accept a prophet that is not of their faith?  Why? 

 

Please take a look at these links, as they might help answer or possibly better inform or narrow down your questions:

 

Priesthood http://www.lds.org/topics/priesthood?lang=eng

Gift of the Holy Ghost http://www.lds.org/topics/holy-ghost?lang=eng

Gifts of the Spirit http://www.lds.org/topics/spiritual-gifts?lang=eng

Prophets http://www.lds.org/topics/prophets?lang=eng

 

Mormons are taught to accept all God's children, but not to accept all they do. This is true of every person, though obviously relatively few are taught it as Mormons (as compared to all the rest of the world).

[The Nehor]

I resent the fact that you imagine that we exclude your kind. If my ward is any indication we are quite accepting of lunatics.

I have no idea if your gifts are authentic. I have seen stranger gifts in my life both inside and outside of the church. I knew one guy who could see auras. He mostly used it to manipulate people until he later repented. I knew another guy who could see events in the scriptural past who helped me resolve a concern i had about the Book of Mormon. I have my own experiences and gifts. All keep very quiet about it for good reason. They are not for boasting.

I am not sure why you want to join the LDS faith. Your post mentions nothing about a belief in God, the efficacy of the atonement of Christ, a testimony of the gospel, or acceptance of Joseph Smith as a prophet. If you are thinking of joining hoping your gifts will gain an audience then you may want to look at another faith. The church does not have an official stance on whether psychic powers exist. They also no stance on UFOs, the Illuminati, and mind-control lasers. Most members will not believe you have psychic healing powers. If you bring them up in a church setting you will probably be politely ignored or deal with awkward silences while everyone thinks you are crazy. Sorry.

If you are expecting LDS to fawn over you for your abilities, hope to establish a group of followers/apprentices to share your skills with, are hoping members will call you over to channel angels, or ask you to exorcise demons then you will almost certainly be disappointed. We do not fawn over spiritual gifts, we use them (mostly subtly). We do not need people to follow; we already have a prophet. We do not channel angels and in fact I find the idea repugnant. If an angel wishes to act they act. Why would they need our help? We definitely cannot compel them and would not if we could. I certainly do not want my afterlife filled with mortal wizards channeling me. On the off-chance we need an exorcism we do it ourselves. They are pretty rare. I am in my 30s and have been involved in two. Well three if you count a silly old woman asking me to exorcise her when there were no demons; just a woman with delusions of grandeur. I think I am statistically on the high side in running into the problem too.

As to what authority the Priesthood has it is the power of God delegated to man. It is the supreme power. You will not find many LDS who will compromise on that. So yes, everyone with the Priesthood has greater authority then you. Priesthood power is dependent on righteousness. And on a strictly personal note I would prefer a priesthood blessing over any powers you can offer.

Incidentally are you British? I met someone when I was over there who shared views similar to yours. She really liked to go on about her kundilini too.

[flameburns623]

There are various churches which accept the ideas and 'gifts' you propose you possess. Divine Science, Unity School of Christianity, Theosophy, Spiritualist Churches, and such.

Some of these have distinct Christian flavors, some are rather removed therefrom.

I think the LDS Church would be unwelcoming, as would my own Latin Mass Roman Catholicism.

Many blessings nonetheless.

[strappinglad]

Well, ponder the following scriptures and see if you can reconcile them. Acts8: 9-24

Luke 9: 49-50

Luke 8: 23

Return and report.

[rpn]

Our scripture states that there are various gifts of God given to people, and all have some Gift.  And we believe that there are many good people doing the best they can in every faith to love God and live according to His will.

 

What we can't know is whether your gift is from God, or from Satan.   The Biblical Elijah and the snakes story makes it clear that the priesthood of God has co-existed with Satan's power on earth for a long time. 

 

What the Church of Jesus Christ does is welcome people to join and keep all the traditions that are consistent with their new knowledge of God and His commandments, and shed those that are not.   You will have to figure out whether the source of your gift is from Him, and using it is consistent with His will, in conjunction with your priesthood leaders.    Exorcism is not an established priesthood ordinance, though there are reported stories of casting out devils from time to time. 

 

And priesthood power isn't about more strength.  If Satan is the author of the problem that needs to be resolved, he must submit to the power of God, which is priesthood power (as we ultimately all must). 

 

Now, if you decided to teach things that are contrary to the doctrines of God and continued to do so after your priesthood leader told you to quit, then that would be apostasy ---- incompatible with your lds church membership.

 

BTW, there is a relatively new book out that would help you understand our understanding of Satan:  http://deseretbook.com/Shedding-Light-Dark-Side-Defeating-Forces-Evil-Stephen-J-Stirling/i/5112648

Edited February 11, 2014 by rpn

[mfbukowski]

 

I'm a sincere open hearted seeker, looking for the truth.  Mormons claim that they have a special power that is better than others called the priesthood, that gives them exclusive authority to have certain spiritual powers.  With this power, miracles occur such as healings, prophecy, and various spiritual gifts.  My question and dilemma is that I am a psychic healer already.  I am an exorcist.  I am psychic, I see the future sometimes, I see spirits, I channel angels that assist me, and together we pull demons and bad human spirits off of people and heal those people.  The same as Jesus did.  I see auras, I have many spiritual gifts.

 

How can my spiritual gifts and power be reconciled with the exclusivity of the priesthood power?  These gifts have nothing to do with gender.  Also not just me only, but I know many other healers that have legitimate power that cleanses and heals other human souls.  Some of these people are christian faith healers, some are non christian shamans and medicine people.  Some are energy workers, such as reiki masters and other methods.  We have power gifted to us to do this spirit healing work.  It has nothing to do with mormon authority or priesthood.  

 

How can I possibly be mormon?  It seems that mormons deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have, and say that any other power that is not mormon comes from Satan.  (Jesus was accused of this too by the Jews).  I say, how can this be true if the hearings work?  By their fruits ye shall know them Jesus said, not by what a priesthood authority said.  They can say whatever they want but what is authority?  What authority does the priesthood have to say that their gift of the Holy Ghost is better than the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have?  Who are they to judge?  I don't deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that the mormons have, they certainly have many spiritual gifts, but why do they deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that others have, because it is not done through the "proper priesthood channels"?  

 

I can't deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost I have, it is impossible.  It is proven.  I have mountains of evidence, called "fruits" that I cannot deny.  Yet the mormons would deny them, and deny me since I don't have the priesthood?  How can a mormon reconcile this?  I want a good scholarly answer here.  I'm pretty sure this question stumps all mormons, and it would in fact stump the prophets and apostles.  If you are not stumped then please provide an intelligent response.  Like I said, this is no trick, I am sincere, and would be mormon if they would accept me.  They deny my gifts and will not.  I want to know why.  

 

I feel akin to Joseph Smith, only in this case, I am "Joseph Smith" who has miraculous mystical visions, and instead of the other churches not believing me (like was the case with Joseph) it's the mormon church who rejects me.  What's the difference?  The denominations of Smith's day wouldn't accept a prophet that was not of their faith.  Mormons won't accept a prophet that is not of their faith?  Why? 

 

It sounds like you have found your path to God.

 

Why bother with Mormons?  Do you ask Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses the same questions?

 

I am sure you know there are many paths to God- just follow yours.

 

Let's catch up on the other side and compare notes, ok?  We will all have a ton more information then.

[mfbukowski]

Exorcism is not an established priesthood ordinance,

Definitely debatable since we are taught how to do precisely that "in a certain place".

[mfbukowski]

  It seems that mormons deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have, and say that any other power that is not mormon comes from Satan.

 

No, we don't believe that.  If anybody tells you that ask them how they think that one can receive a message from the Holy Ghost to become Mormon in the first place?

 

Clearly non-members can be guided and directed by the Holy Ghost, and even do healings etc.  I have no problem with that.  The power behind healing is faith, not necessarily the Priesthood.  Women can do healings and they do not have the priesthood- there are well documented cases in our history of that happening.

 

Priesthood is authority.

 

Suppose a bad guy was about to kill an innocent person, and you pulled out a legal gun and shot the bad guy.  You could do that and might be regarded as a hero.

 

But only the police have the "authority" to enforce the law.  Priesthood is like that.  It is the AUTHORITY to act for God in administering to people.  It is quite independent from the spiritual power to do so.  If you follow God, you could well have the power and not the authority.  On the other side, one could have the authority and not the power- like a policeman asleep on the job.

 

Two independent variables.

[AndyDnom]

if someone has lost a limb, can you put that back? how bout a finger? or we'll go even smaller. can you regrow a toe? or even half a toe?

[knowone]

 

 

 

obvious troll is obvious

[Calm]

obvious troll is obvious

Why not be patient and see how he responds before assuming he is just here to push buttons.

[Coreyb]

I have met many Mormons and non-Mormons who have told me they had special spiritual gifts. Some of them I believe, others I do not believe at all. We would just have to take it on a case by case basis. I guess it would all depend on your intent, and like Nehor said, I am not sure of what yours is. However, if you were humble, teachable, and used your gifts with your new found knowledge and power from the Gospel of Christ, I am sure there would be a place for you here. My grandmother was a healer, and she has Catholic. I knew a Church of Christ preacher who had visions. I for one do not despise spiritual gifts, but forgive me if I am a bit wary.

[JLHPROF]

 

I'm a sincere open hearted seeker, looking for the truth.  Mormons claim that they have a special power that is better than others called the priesthood, that gives them exclusive authority to have certain spiritual powers.  With this power, miracles occur such as healings, prophecy, and various spiritual gifts.  My question and dilemma is that I am a psychic healer already.  I am an exorcist.  I am psychic, I see the future sometimes, I see spirits, I channel angels that assist me, and together we pull demons and bad human spirits off of people and heal those people.  The same as Jesus did.  I see auras, I have many spiritual gifts.

 

How can my spiritual gifts and power be reconciled with the exclusivity of the priesthood power?  These gifts have nothing to do with gender.  Also not just me only, but I know many other healers that have legitimate power that cleanses and heals other human souls.  Some of these people are christian faith healers, some are non christian shamans and medicine people.  Some are energy workers, such as reiki masters and other methods.  We have power gifted to us to do this spirit healing work.  It has nothing to do with mormon authority or priesthood.  

 

How can I possibly be mormon?  It seems that mormons deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have, and say that any other power that is not mormon comes from Satan.  (Jesus was accused of this too by the Jews).  I say, how can this be true if the hearings work?  By their fruits ye shall know them Jesus said, not by what a priesthood authority said.  They can say whatever they want but what is authority?  What authority does the priesthood have to say that their gift of the Holy Ghost is better than the gifts of the Holy Ghost that others have?  Who are they to judge?  I don't deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that the mormons have, they certainly have many spiritual gifts, but why do they deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit that others have, because it is not done through the "proper priesthood channels"?  

 

I can't deny the gifts of the Holy Ghost I have, it is impossible.  It is proven.  I have mountains of evidence, called "fruits" that I cannot deny.  Yet the mormons would deny them, and deny me since I don't have the priesthood?  How can a mormon reconcile this?  I want a good scholarly answer here.  I'm pretty sure this question stumps all mormons, and it would in fact stump the prophets and apostles.  If you are not stumped then please provide an intelligent response.  Like I said, this is no trick, I am sincere, and would be mormon if they would accept me.  They deny my gifts and will not.  I want to know why.  

 

I feel akin to Joseph Smith, only in this case, I am "Joseph Smith" who has miraculous mystical visions, and instead of the other churches not believing me (like was the case with Joseph) it's the mormon church who rejects me.  What's the difference?  The denominations of Smith's day wouldn't accept a prophet that was not of their faith.  Mormons won't accept a prophet that is not of their faith?  Why? 

 

 

Exodus 7:9-12

"When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Shew a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent.

And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods."

 

The issue isn't who can perform miracles, healings, or see visions.  It is whether the gift comes from the Lord or from somewhere else.  Sometimes it's God, sometimes it isn't.  When we read this story we don't assume that God turned the magicians rods into serpents too.  We assume some other power did so.  That is the risk if you remove the true priesthood authority from the miracle.  You don't always know where it comes from and it's dangerous to guess.

[The Nehor]

 

The issue isn't who can perform miracles, healings, or see visions.  It is whether the gift comes from the Lord or from somewhere else.  Sometimes it's God, sometimes it isn't.  When we read this story we don't assume that God turned the magicians rods into serpents too.  We assume some other power did so.  That is the risk if you remove the true priesthood authority from the miracle.  You don't always know where it comes from and it's dangerous to guess.

 

 

I've heard at least one apostle give their opinion that the snakestaff thing was more stage magician illusion then satanic power. I agree with him.

 

According to footage of the event they used a flash of light to distract the audience and make the switch:

 

 

The important thing is which snake eats the other one.

[kundalinisnakes]

Thank you for all of the kind hearted responses.  I will try to address multiple questions in one post.  First of all, let me clarify that I am not looking to become a mormon, I am critical of the church due to this priesthood issue.  Your answers won't convert me, only God can.  I am simply trying to understand intellectually how mormons view other healers, and trying to get as much of an official answer as possible.  It's obvious that the church doesn't like to give official answers about hardly anything, they remain fairly neutral, which I also disagree with.  It puts it all on members who don't really know to answer the questions, but there are some knowledgeable members.  I don't think the leaders would answer my letters or phone calls if I tried, so I won't waste my time   Like I said, I am not unfamiliar with the church.  I have studied it extensively.  I disagree with what I have found and am stating my reasoning.  

 

I expect skepticism about my "powers" so let me clarify that they are not my "powers".  I have none.  I am simply a channel.  I channel power directly from the source of existence to do the healing, it is the source, pure Love, or God as it is called, that does the healing.  I have no say over it, in fact, I have to submit my ego (will) entirely to Love and be present for it to work, so "I" am not even there.  I also have dead human spirits that assist that I call angels, but again, they simply channel power from the source, same power.  There are many other kinds of spirits that I work with but I won't go into detail it's not important.  Joseph Smith had many spirits he worked with too, I find his story fascinating.  I also work with deities.  The deities are somewhat of a "council of Gods/Goddesses" you could say, kind of like the mormon concept of the Elohim (plural) and that we are all Gods/Goddesses.  I am God/Goddess, they live within me.  I'm still a normal mortal though, just like any Christian who has God within them.  We are all One, as Jesus says in John 17.  My belief is non dual.   

 

I am not looking for a following and in fact that is one reason I am critical of the priesthood, it needs a following.  It is a power structure.  I don't have one.  I am looking for respect however.  What is the point of being mormon if nobody around you respects you for who you are and for what you do?  If they won't accept your healing because it doesn't fit in the parameters or "normal priesthood ordinances"? Worst case scenario, they think you are demon possessed or something!  Not a friendly environment is all.  I am 99.9% sure (I always give God the benefit of the doubt) God needs to channel power through me elsewhere for healing, since the priesthood would disagree with me channeling ancestor spirits and other guides.  It works based on belief, so I would have no power gifted if I was around a bunch of skeptics.  Just like Jesus says, it is their faith that heals them, the healee, not the healer.    

 

The magicians versus Moses story came up in the responses.  From my non dual perspective, this was somewhat of a play, God playing both sides.  It is very clear in the Old Testament that God sent the evil spirit to pharaoh and it was God "hardening pharaoh's heart".  Any time evil happens it is God doing it.  The concept of Satan is simply the dark side of God.  Sure the devil is "real" so to speak, but not separate from God's power.  There is only one power.  There isn't a "good power" and an "evil power", it's simply power.   "Power over demons" happens because they work for, and are, manifestations of the same power that has dominion over all, God.  Satan is God's employee, you could say, as the Book of Job indicates with Satan and God working together on Job.  Satan, or dark power, comes from the same source as light power.  It's how the power is used that puts it in angel or devil categories.  Were pharaoh and his magicians following the devil?  I don't agree with this, they were following other manifestations of the one God (Egyptian Deities), and as the One God demonstrated, it just so happened that there was a shift in power.  What may have been good at one point, (I don't think the magicians were evil), shifted, and was no longer needed.  It became "evil" at that point.  What was needed was the real power to come through Moses.  You could say then, it was the power of God that caused the magicians to copy the miracles of Moses, but God demonstrated that the power was shifting by allowing the "play" (in reality) to play out to prove it to the people.   The power comes from the same source, whom is identified in the Bible as the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega.  This is the circle of uroboros, the beginning and the end are the same.  

 

I have a lot of respect for Joseph Smith.  I view him as a wizard/shaman.  I am one as well.  I'm not boasting here I'm just stating this because it is much more common than mormons believe.  We exist all over, in every culture, in every time period.  We often start religions and create mythologies.  People use the word "prophet" instead because that semantic carries respect for those who are familiar with the Biblical magi (magicians) and shamans that are commonly known as prophets.   No reason to get caught up on titles.  The point is the mystical experiences that we all have.  We are all different as well,  we have different gifts.  I am amazed by Smith's channeling abilities, he was able to channel the Book of Mormon in 60 days by looking into a rock!  I imagine the rock tuned his aura somehow and helped him see with his "third eye" or inner eye.  I do the same thing in meditation, I see a lot with my inner eye.  I also can relate to the amount of focus this takes and understand why he needed a scribe, he would have lost his concentration otherwise!  

 

I have no doubt of Smith's power, he was certainly blessed with many gifts, and he did what he could to blend the mystical magical traditions he was raised with (freemasonry, etc) with Christianity.  Well, I don't think we can really say he did it at all.  He channeled it.  I'm sure he was sincere.  I do think he was tricked though.  God is a trickster and likely tricked him into doing this, because God tricks people to bless them, if it is wisdom.  I work with some trickster spirits too, but they teach their methods and you learn how to not be fooled.  Some spirit workers are fooled by trickters quite a bit.  I think Smith was powerful yet tricked.  There are many similar stories of Gurus in the east that have what are called siddhis, miraculous powers from God, yet they follow their own ego and are tricked into using their powers/senses for selfish purposes.  That is always the case with anything that has power, is has to be used wisely.  

 

I don't judge Joseph Smith as evil, I just choose to not be under his spell.  Spells all come from the same source and power, which mormons call the Holy Ghost, otherwise they don't work.  It's really God casting the spell, not the mortal magician.  The magician is simply a puppet or servant acting as God, in unity with God.  So, God can cast a spell, that can make a mormon believe with all their heart something is the truth, and yet that same God can give contradictory information to another, who is on a different path, say a non christian for example, and even though they contradict in the head, they are true in the heart.  They can have the same Holy Ghost tell them another way is true, and be under a different spell.  God is more interested in our hearts than our heads.  It doesn't have to be factual for God's spirit to teach lessons of the heart.  

 

Nehor: I'm not british, but have that ancestry and have dead spirit trainers from that neck of the woods.  Also, about the priesthood being more powerful, it isn't.  It's the same power I have, but it is nicely packaged in a theological system of taboos.  That is good for people.  That way works and gets people to purify their lives to be clean channels of power.  How is it different from kundalini though?  It's the same. 

 

strappinglad: Good scriptures.  I don't know who Simon was, but it sounds like he was a black magician.  There is a dark side to power, when it is used selfishly.  Same power source though.  From the highest perspective there is no black or white magic only power, or energy.  Depends how it's used.  Black magic only works on approval of the highest God.  It's still God's doing.   Jesus calms the storm because it is not Jesus (the man) calming it, it is the source of power, of which Jesus is in complete unity with.  About Luke 9:49-50,  I just think it proves my point that God is much more open minded about whom he/she grants power than people generally think.  God doesn't do things "by the book", God just does "whatever works".  

 

I think I have covered most everything else in what I wrote.

[flameburns623]

Not certain why you've picked the Latter-Day Saints to quibble with, as opposed to Roman Catholic priests, Eastern Orthodoxy, or The Church of God With Signs Following. (That last is a real ecclesial community of Appalachian Snake Handlers, though I may have the name somewhat incorrect).

In any case, short of an Elijah moment--Elijah is the Old Testament prophet who challenged some Ba'al-worshipping priests to a sort of duel. They spent all day trying to use their powers to call down fire from Heaven without success, after which Elijah built an altar to God, had it saturated three times with water, then said a simple prayer after which fire from Heaven consuming not only the altar but lapping at the water which had pooled round about the altar, proving Elijah worshipped the true God and not the prophets of Ba'al. (See I Kings 18).

Failing THAT sort of moment, I don't see any way to settle the difference in world-views. As I noted, however, there are professedly-Christian sects which welcome ideas such as those which you embrace. I named a few: most communities have one or more such sects, and in the Internet Age it should not be difficult to locate a study group or more organized body of such.

So again: why the Mormons?

[BlueDreams]

I'd agree with what flameburns is asking. Also (or likewise), what else interests you about LDS theology? 

 

Reading your second post there's points of parallel or agreement and there's plenty more that really does not match up with LDS theology. There's also indications of not understanding an LDS POV while having a good number of accurate facts mixed in there (for example, LDS have no problem believing in other people who had, in their own way or time, also done the works of God). Frankly when I look at this I think to myself, priesthood authority isn't that big of a deal compared to some of the other things mentioned that are very different from LDS beliefs. We don't believe in God being a trickster...more like He works with imperfect beings that have a tendency to make things messy and in opposition by Satan who enjoys messying it up a little further. And though because God has experienced all and all power is ultimately His to command, Satan is definitely a separate being and has no place with God. There's more , but those are the ones that immediately came to me. Oh wait, one thing I kinda found ironic. You state you're critical to the power structure and yet it frustrates you that ours leave a lot to be interpreted to the membership. Personally I feel we generally have a good balance between the structure and freedom to decide for oneself about what is good for you. 

 

Also, IMHO, if you're unwilling to change certain beliefs of yours instead of filtering other beliefs to yours, LDS won't be for you. I don't think your gift is all bad. But I would wager that becoming truly LDS would alter how it is manifested and how you interact with it. I would see this change as good...like having one's plumbing cleared of debris. But conversion of such isn't easy (for anyone), will be a lifetime, and entails letting go enough to our own concepts to allow God to rework and alter our own understanding and gifts to become more like Him (or as you stated, more in union).  

 

 

Also, just curious, you've mentioned that you believe JS did channel the BoM. You've also paralleled certain aspect with biblical/LDS beliefs. I'm curious how much have you read of the Bible and the BoM (or the other books, like the Doctrine and Covenants or Pearl of Great Price)

 

 

With luv,

BD 

[CV75]

I am simply trying to understand intellectually how mormons view other healers, and trying to get as much of an official answer as possible.

Some healers are good and some are bad; some are in-between. Some methods and philosophies are good and some are bad; some are in-between. Mormons believe that “all things which are good cometh of God,” and that “that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually,” and “the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil.” These quotes come from Moroni 7, which is from our canon and can be considered official.

From my experieince, healers and healing can invite and entice practitioners and clients to do good or evil or a little of either. Healing (spiritual or physical) is only one function and blessing of the priesthood as the links I first provided indicate, and many people can obviously function as healers and heal without the priesthood.

[DarkScythe]

As long as you are willing change your paradigm to a one that is more suited to a Mormon centric paradigm and a willingness to do good regardless, then you will do good within the Mormon Church.

[mfbukowski]

So why are you here?

 

You know our theology, this thread appears pointless.

 

I actually agree with much of what you say, but why take the time and energy to say it?

 

Surely you could be healing someone or something

[The Nehor]

 

I don't judge Joseph Smith as evil, I just choose to not be under his spell.  Spells all come from the same source and power, which mormons call the Holy Ghost, otherwise they don't work.  It's really God casting the spell, not the mortal magician.  The magician is simply a puppet or servant acting as God, in unity with God.  So, God can cast a spell, that can make a mormon believe with all their heart something is the truth, and yet that same God can give contradictory information to another, who is on a different path, say a non christian for example, and even though they contradict in the head, they are true in the heart.  They can have the same Holy Ghost tell them another way is true, and be under a different spell.  God is more interested in our hearts than our heads.  It doesn't have to be factual for God's spirit to teach lessons of the heart.  

 

I reject your God and do not see how you can follow a God who lies to his followers. Yuck.

 

 

 

I have no doubt of Smith's power, he was certainly blessed with many gifts, and he did what he could to blend the mystical magical traditions he was raised with (freemasonry, etc) with Christianity.  Well, I don't think we can really say he did it at all.  He channeled it.  I'm sure he was sincere.  I do think he was tricked though.  God is a trickster and likely tricked him into doing this, because God tricks people to bless them, if it is wisdom.  I work with some trickster spirits too, but they teach their methods and you learn how to not be fooled.  Some spirit workers are fooled by trickters quite a bit.  I think Smith was powerful yet tricked.  There are many similar stories of Gurus in the east that have what are called siddhis, miraculous powers from God, yet they follow their own ego and are tricked into using their powers/senses for selfish purposes.  That is always the case with anything that has power, is has to be used wisely.  

 

Good thing you outsmarted God thereby keeping omniscience from tricking you. Good job on that.

[Damien the Leper]

I resent the fact that you imagine that we exclude your kind. If my ward is any indication we are quite accepting of lunatics.

 

 

You had me with this statement. I haven't laughed this hard in a while.

[AddamS]

This may be the first time I have agreed with Nehor. Perhaps I need an exorcism?

 

I resent the fact that you imagine that we exclude your kind. If my ward is any indication we are quite accepting of lunatics.

[kundalinisnakes]

I'd agree with what flameburns is asking. Also (or likewise), what else interests you about LDS theology? 

 

Reading your second post there's points of parallel or agreement and there's plenty more that really does not match up with LDS theology. There's also indications of not understanding an LDS POV while having a good number of accurate facts mixed in there (for example, LDS have no problem believing in other people who had, in their own way or time, also done the works of God). Frankly when I look at this I think to myself, priesthood authority isn't that big of a deal compared to some of the other things mentioned that are very different from LDS beliefs. We don't believe in God being a trickster...more like He works with imperfect beings that have a tendency to make things messy and in opposition by Satan who enjoys messying it up a little further. And though because God has experienced all and all power is ultimately His to command, Satan is definitely a separate being and has no place with God. There's more , but those are the ones that immediately came to me. Oh wait, one thing I kinda found ironic. You state you're critical to the power structure and yet it frustrates you that ours leave a lot to be interpreted to the membership. Personally I feel we generally have a good balance between the structure and freedom to decide for oneself about what is good for you. 

 

Also, IMHO, if you're unwilling to change certain beliefs of yours instead of filtering other beliefs to yours, LDS won't be for you. I don't think your gift is all bad. But I would wager that becoming truly LDS would alter how it is manifested and how you interact with it. I would see this change as good...like having one's plumbing cleared of debris. But conversion of such isn't easy (for anyone), will be a lifetime, and entails letting go enough to our own concepts to allow God to rework and alter our own understanding and gifts to become more like Him (or as you stated, more in union).  

 

 

Also, just curious, you've mentioned that you believe JS did channel the BoM. You've also paralleled certain aspect with biblical/LDS beliefs. I'm curious how much have you read of the Bible and the BoM (or the other books, like the Doctrine and Covenants or Pearl of Great Price)

 

 

With luv,

BD 

My true philosophy is this:  I don't know anything.  Emphasis on the period.  That being said, I have had a lot of experiences, but I detach myself from the experiences because I am wise enough to realize that I cannot outsmart God, there could always be something I didn't understand to missed.  I am open to all that God teaches me.  Typically the way God teaches me is by having inner subjective unprovable experiences, like a prophetic vision or a telepathic experience, and then confirming that information with the "real world" such as the event happening or the telepathy validated.  It's "as above, so below, as within, so without".  What is in my inner realm happens in the outside world.  The inside becomes the outside.  The outside needs to be validated too sometimes with the inside realm through meditation/presence.  It's a careful balance.  

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough on my intention.  I am not looking to be mormon.  I am just trying to theoretically put myself in mormon shoes to see if it would work.  I really don't think so.  Also, I want to understand this priesthood concept.  I have had some inner world info regarding it and I am just balancing that with the outside "human wisdom".   I think the priesthood is a magical coven similar to wicca.  (I am not wiccan btw but know a witch who is). It has real power, but so do other covens.  What is the difference?  Really I am just checking my ideas with peers to see if they add up.