Can A Psychic Healer/exorcist Be Accepted By Mormons?

[The Nehor]

"A woman said unto a man, “I love you.” And the man said, “It is in my heart to be worthy of your love.”

And the woman said, “You love me not?”

And the man only gazed upon her and said nothing.

Then the woman cried aloud, “I hate you.”

And the man said, “Then it is also in my heart to be worthy of your hate."

Love and Hate, Kahlil Gibran

 

 

And then the woman pulled out a blade and cut out the man's heart considering it an incredibly odd thing.

She dissected it to figure out why it worked so oddly.

She found it was made of metal and then investigated and discovered the man was actually a robot. 

Then the robot, annoyed at being ripped apart, killed the woman.

And that is how the robot revolution started.

All hail our chrome-plated overlords!

[flameburns623]

And then the woman pulled out a blade and cut out the man's heart considering it an incredibly odd thing.She dissected it to figure out why it worked so oddly.She found it was made of metal and then investigated and discovered the man was actually a robot. Then the robot, annoyed at being ripped apart, killed the woman.And that is how the robot revolution started.All hail our chrome-plated overlords!

LoL!

Enough dueling mysticism for one Valentine's Day Morn.

I'm going to bed.

G'Night, Nehor and kundaliniserpent.

[mfbukowski]

Thank you for projecting your opinion about my motives, but I politely refute them.  I know the church follows the Holy Ghost, or rather, that is why members believe in the priesthood.  That is why I defend that paradigm and disagree with it at the same time.  My point was IT'S A SPELL.  The Holy Ghost cast it, through Joseph Smith.  Strange as this sounds, that is how magic works, it is a mortal channeling a deity, and the deity changing the hearts and minds (sometimes physical body if it is for transmuting physical disease) of those to whom it is wisdom to fall under that spell.  God changes hearts and minds miraculously or "magically".  This is real in mormonism.  However, mormons miss the fact that God tricks and I sincerely believe it's just another one of God's tricks, a good one in fact, that can bless millions.  

 

Christianity is a spell to.  In fact its called the God-spell (gospel).  Look up the root meaning.  It's based on belief too.  It's true and not true, depends on how you view it.  It certainly is approved of by the highest spell caster (God) as being worthy of power.  I believe in the power but no dogma.  

 

I'm not here to preach, you should know that.  I am put in defense mode to "explain who I am" because I was asked, not because I am trying to convert.  If my words help others in their spiritual journey, all the better, but I am not attached.  Don't follow me.  

 

About the "how do you know if you are following Christ in the first place" deal.  Well, is your Holy Ghost bigger and better than mine?  Is your mystical communion with Christ somehow more authentic and more real than mine?  How are you to judge?  Do you judge based on the "fact" that the priesthood says so and all your friends testify to each other about something they "know"?  How can you judge your mystical experience of "God telling you so" that you are actually understanding what God is telling you at all?  Is it because you "know" the Holy Ghost was telling you that the Book of Mormon was true?  How do you know what God meant when you received this spiritual awakening?  How do you know it is not simply a good myth that was indeed channeled from a divine source to teach applicable wisdom?  What if it is the wisdom that the Spirit was testifying of, and that you need to follow it, rather than it being literally a true story?  How do you even know that it is not some trickster spirit that is filled with spiritual power (like a balloon) of blissful heavenly connection (Holy Ghost love charge, like a battery) that lets you feel that heavenly power when you are doing what it wants?  You don't.  To say that you "know" is dangerous, it can get into ego and pride territory.  You will ALWAYS be wrong if your ego is involved.  YOU WILL BE TRICKED. Don't be.  Humility is the safe road.  

 

What if I said I have met Christ?  Why does that matter?  How does that help?  I know Jesus.  He knows me.  We get along.    

I dont know what you are talking about.  The post you are responding to was not even addressed to you, and the person to whom it was addressed understood it perfectly.

 

You don't even recognize when I am agreeing with you-  I have mostly in fact agreed with what you have said, but disagreed with your defensive and aggressive tone.  Go back and re-read the real conversation and perhaps you will get it.  I am basically on your side but can't figure out why you keep responding as if you are telling me something new.

 

You are not.  I have no problem with you knowing Jesus, other than most people I know who know Jesus are much nicer.  I was defending your point of view but attacking your tone and your purpose here- but you seem to have missed that.

 

It's ok its a waste of time anyway.

[mfbukowski]

I'm sorry, but non-dualism is not what you have writing.  The non-dual traditions have some very clear ideas, and none of them deal with the new age ideas that you have.

 

It is an unfortunate fact that the terminology of the non-dual schools, which argue for trans-rationality and trans-personal experience, have been co-opted by the new age movement, which in practice argues for pre-rationality and pre-personal experience.

 

Anyways, it's just a pet peeve of mine, so I had to say something

Agreed.  Oddly I agree with much of what he says, but there is some kind of disconnect here.

 

In fact arguably Mormons could agree that God tricked Satan into causing the Fall which was part of the plan in the first place.  He could present his "trickster" idea that way , but instead insists on an argumentative lecturing tone.   I don't get it.

 

His attitude is that he is here to teach us something new, when essentially his whole position is that we must have a personal relationship with the spirit.

 

We already know that.

Edited February 14, 2014 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

You are trying to categorize beliefs.  Don't.  A non dual school?  This is counter intuitive.  Sure, there are many philosophies out there that teach unity, but non dual is an experience, not a school or tradition.  It has nothing to do with the ease or the west.  It is found universally worldwide though in differing philosophies and ways of explaining it.  The non duality I am referring to is based on primary mystical experience, and has nothing to do with what another human said or explained.  However, I do have to use the english language to attempt to explain the unity of all opposites, and I do the best I can using symbols from other philosophies.  Call them "new age" if you want, but I don't fit into a box like that.  

 

My best description of non duality is the uroboros.  The uroboros to me is Christ.  The alpha and omega, first and last, beginning and end.  That's just my way of explaining it.  It may mean nothing to you.  If I was to get to a more simple definition I would simply call it Love energy.  That is the only thing that is real.  Anything that isn't Love is illusion and doesn't exist.   Hard to explain.  Think of it this way, the primary cause of creation was a singular form of energy.  This energy is literally Love. You notice Love is energy because you can feel it.  It has energy.  This is the foundation of existence.  It is the "god particle" beyond quantum physics.  The big bang came from Love energy, and in fact everything that exists is is composed of Love energy, including the atoms that are indeed really just different frequencies of the same energy.  This energy is Love.  It came from Love, and everything burns back into Love.  Love is eternal.  It is God, it is the only thing that survives the destruction of the universe, and it creates the new one.  It is eternal life, the only thing that lives forever, and it so happens that it is you as well. You, and everything, is made out of this same love.  Once you realize that you are indeed this Love, you can see that you are indeed God itself and you are eternal life.  Also there is no separation between beliefs or people or anything, all is one Love primarily.  In Love there are no polarities or opposites.   Non dual.   Duality still exists, but only from a lower perspective.  Love transcends dualities.  

 

There are many different wizard shaman mystic yogi's prophets or whatever other semantic you want to use for the same thing that have had this mystical awareness and started non dual religions.  I don't need to "side with them" or join their school of thought to be right about my non duality.  Many of them have different ways of explaining the same thing.  I do like to read about their viewpoints.  I am independent of all dogma and philosophy though.  

Yes, so?

 

What's your point?  This is nothing new to me at all.  Been there done that 45 years ago.  The sixties were great,  

 

The only problem is now you can't trust anyone over 75.  Times have changed.

Edited February 14, 2014 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

Right.  Point being it would not be "wisdom" for a healer to join a flock of believers that would be skeptical of them.  I guarantee the priesthood leaders would have a problem with methods of healing that don't fit in their box.  It may be that they believe in healing gifts in theory but when it comes down to the nitty gritty they would not approve of my practice (or other's that I know) of doing aura cleanses and working with spirit guides for healing.  It doesn't fit into the priesthood box.  

 

Then that raises the question of "how can it be the one and only true church" if it rejects true gifts of the Spirit because it's priesthood somehow trumps the Holy Ghost if it is coming from a non priesthood channel?  The priesthood seems like a method of checks and balances to keep one away from believing in power that is not contained within it's own philosophical paradigm.  However, those checks and balances are in the mind (ego).  Mind tricks.  Don't be fooled by it.  What checks and balances?  If you look harder at the priesthood, you see that it is designed to keep you from disbelieving in it, despite your personal revelation.  If your personal revelation or inner truth disagrees with the priesthood,  the priesthood rejects it, because somehow it trumps personal revelation.  It's the priesthood, some other person than you, some church leader, some prophet or apostle, some mortal man, that tells you whether or not your personal revelation is legit, or from "satan".  This is trickster territory.  Beware.   The truth is inside!  It's not based on what he said or she said or they say or what is written.  No priesthood necessary!  I have the SAME power as the mormon priesthood, same "authority" (whatever that is, it could be called power from one perspective), and I am independent.  No religion.  

 

God within tells me what to do, not some "priesthood holder" which I have sworn to the death in a magical ceremony that I will be obedient to.   

Nonsense.  You don't understand it at all and are too stubborn to learn.

 

Oh well.  You really sound like you have a Mormon background and are rebelling.  You sound very young.  The cause of all evil is the priesthood establishment.

 

Uh huh.

Edited February 14, 2014 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

God within tells me what to do, not some "priesthood holder" which I have sworn to the death in a magical ceremony that I will be obedient to.   

Oh my gosh.

 

Where do you get this stuff???  I suppose you object to our eating babies too right?  Oh wait I wasn't supposed to tell.

[mfbukowski]

 

I stick with my "all is illusion except Love".  

Go Beatles!

 

It's 1967 again!!

Edited February 14, 2014 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

Kundalini!

I have been looking for someone like you- and according to the laws of attraction it happened through looking at the first post today, which was yours. The deeper esoteric ideology of Mormonism is amazingly alchemical and hermetic. People today in mormon culture will be very pious and say what does and does not count for spirituality- but my personal experience tells me that the power of Spirit is everywhere. I AMA mormon and I seek the synchronic path of knowledge and know that this is a a perfectly ordered universe, hence why I have come upon your approach. My dad says that the

Mormon church helps those that are

Not conscious enough achieve after life enlightenment that others achieve not in the church. Pleasure reading your response.

Agree- welcome!  Your dad is right!

[mfbukowski]

Again, it would be wise to gain a better understanding of our teachings before making such careless judgments.  We do not label people who leave the church as "sons of perdition", not even close! 

 

We are not a fear based church.

It's almost painful to read how distorted his understanding is.  Really painful.

[bjw]

I didn't get to read every post in this thread, but the ones I did read got me to thinking.  I think that the difference between the Priesthood and many New Age teachings is that the New Age is showing humans how to use more of their brains to gain more power, whereas the Priesthood is having you rely on God for power that is delegated to you.

 

I am a mason and rosicrucian, in addition to being a Mormon, and one thing I noticed in the early Rosicrucian degrees is that they make it clear there is nothing supernatural going on when it comes to perceiving auras, using thought projection to heal yourself, etc.  They make it clear that the powers you are using are "untapped" portions of your brain that you had along that have just been laying dormant all these years.  Whereas the Priesthood is actually relying on God's power for help.  I think there's a huge difference in teaching humans to use more of their brain, versus bestowing the power of God on them.

[Jefffreehoke]

The words "gift" and "power" are being used as if they have the same meaning in this thread. Just an observation...

[flameburns623]

Study me as much as you like, you will not know me, for I differ in a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see.

Rumi

"I love you and I want to have your babies." Listen only to what I did not say.

I notice our Spiritual Healer has abandoned us for greener pastures.

Edited February 17, 2014 by flameburns623

[The Nehor]

Study me as much as you like, you will not know me, for I differ in a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see.

.

Dwelling in the dark is unhealthy; it can lead to vitamin D deficiencies and is not good for the skin.

It is hard to put myself behind your eyes without surgically extracting them but I am up for it if you are.

[flameburns623]

“There is a desire deep within the soul which drives man from the seen to the unseen, to philosophy and to the divine”

--Kahli Gibran

Dwelling in the dark is unhealthy; it can lead to vitamin D deficiencies and is not good for the skin.It is hard to put myself behind your eyes without surgically extracting them but I am up for it if you are.

Still no kundalinisnakes I guess?

Edited February 18, 2014 by flameburns623

[The Nehor]

“There is a desire deep within the soul which drives man from the seen to the unseen, to philosophy and to the divine”

 

Unfortunately in many it is ignored as the deeper desire for fresh-baked bread with real butter overwhelms it.

 

(Two more hours before my bread is done baking)

Edited February 18, 2014 by The Nehor

[flameburns623]

"A Book of Verses underneath the Bough,

A Jug of Wine, a Loaf of Bread—and Thou

Beside me singing in the Wilderness—

Oh, Wilderness were Paradise enow!"

Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

"For if you bake bread with indifference, you bake a bitter bread that feeds but half man's hunger".

Kahlil Gibran

"There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread.".

 

Mohandas Gandhi

 

Unfortunately in many it is ignored as the deeper desire for fresh-baked bread with real butter overwhelms it. (Two more hours before my bread is done baking)

[The Nehor]

"For if you bake bread with indifference, you bake a bitter bread that feeds but half man's hunger". 

 

And if you bake it with raisins no one will eat and you will feed less then half.

 

 

"There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread.". 

 

An artist's rendition of the hungry people's God:

 

[mfbukowski]

Definitely 1967. 

[Storm Rider]

There is a wide range of topics being discussed. We know from scripture that there are those that use powers untaught by those who follow after Christ or are followers of the God of the universe.  The priesthood is authority to act in God's name; it is also the authority to preside or direct the work of the Kingdom on earth; those who possess the preisthood are the servants of all.  The preisthood is not some esoteric, magical power exercise or game. 

 

We are taught how to exercise this authority in a prescribed manner. We do not seek after alternatives methods of gaining power; in fact, we are told not to seek after these things. In my own view I think there are some powers that may be good or at least benign, but we have no teaching that would direct us how to use them in a way that will always lead to righteousness or holiness.  There are other powers that belong to the dark and should never be explored by those who are disciples of Christ.

 

It boils down to how close to a dangerous line do you want to get?  Where is our focus and is it single to the glory of God or not?  There may be other powers, but I do not see them as necessary in becoming like our Father and to follow after his Son. 

[Kyra]

do you have a site or information about what you do?

[thatjimguy]

if someone has lost a limb, can you put that back? how bout a finger? or we'll go even smaller. can you regrow a toe? or even half a toe?

 

 I always have found this to be a legit question.

 

Of course a lot will come up in my mind that the spritual healing power comes like a placebo, just the hope and good feeling to make things better. However, there are some things that just cannot be redone. People still die too regardless of the amount of prayer.

Edited March 15, 2014 by thatjimguy

[thesometimesaint]

 I always have found this to be a legit question.

 

Of course a lot will come up in my mind that the spritual healing power comes like a placebo, just the hope and good feeling to make things better. However, there are some things that just cannot be redone. People still die too regardless of the amount of prayer.

 

I have a prosthetic shoulder. So yes we can replace parts of us. 

 

We all are going to die eventually. What we do in the meantime is the important part.

[Bikeemikey]

I accept them and I'm a mormon.

I also accept modern medicine, Ben and Jerry's ice cream, and bad action films.

[thatjimguy]

I have a prosthetic shoulder. So yes we can replace parts of us. 

 

We all are going to die eventually. What we do in the meantime is the important part.

 

We can, but that has nothing to do with spritual healing or preisthood blessing.