Melchizedek Priesthood

[nuclearfuels]

So - Melchizedek had the highest priesthood and gave it to Abraham or blessed Abraham via the MP. 

The Savior gave Peter, James and John the MP.

What happened between? An apostasy before the Apostasy, I believe? 

If so, marriages and other MP-requiring ordinances performed in Temples prior to the Savior's life (and after - up until the Restoration) were perfomred via the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods, no?

Therefore, Temple Work needs to be done for those who lived after Abraham and before the Savior, no? 

Part of this would include me serving as proxy for Solomon being sealed to his 700 wives and 300 concubines (w/ the acknowledged caveat that most of his marriages were political and that concubines were not wives but doing Temple work / showing devotion "not for the weeds" is also a net positive thing to do), no?

I'd be disappointed to learn we cant do this Temple work until the Millennium, when all those who passed away will do their own Temple work. Bruh.

[Dario_M]

5 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Bruh.

Yeah bruh. 😎

[InCognitus]

22 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

So - Melchizedek had the highest priesthood and gave it to Abraham or blessed Abraham via the MP. 

The Savior gave Peter, James and John the MP.

What happened between? An apostasy before the Apostasy, I believe? 

If so, marriages and other MP-requiring ordinances performed in Temples prior to the Savior's life (and after - up until the Restoration) were perfomred via the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods, no?

The Melchizedek priesthood was held by prophets of God between the time that Israel broke the covenant on Mount Sinai (and the Melchizedek priesthood was taken from among them and they were left with the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood), and the time of Christ.  As it says here in Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood: Basic Manual for Priesthood Holders, Part A, Lesson 2: The Priesthood from Adam to the Restoration:

Quote

Melchizedek Priesthood Taken from Israel

Abraham gave the priesthood to his son Isaac, and Isaac gave it to his son Jacob. Jacob’s name was changed to Israel, and thereafter Jacob’s descendants were known as the children of Israel.

In Moses’ day, after he had led the children of Israel out of Egypt, the Lord offered the children of Israel the fulness of His gospel. They rejected it, however, so the Lord took away from them the Melchizedek Priesthood and the higher ordinances of the gospel. They were left with laws that were to direct the physical, or temporal, activities of the people. These laws were administered by the Aaronic Priesthood (named after Aaron, the brother of Moses). Most of these laws are found in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy in the Old Testament. They were not meant to replace the fulness of the gospel, but were given as a way to prepare the children of Israel to live the gospel in its fulness at a later time.

Even though the Melchizedek Priesthood was taken from Israel as a nation, it was not permanently taken from the earth. Between the time of Moses and the coming of Jesus Christ, several prophets held the Melchizedek Priesthood. Some of these prophets were Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lehi, Daniel, and Ezekiel.

So I suspect that the prophets that were around during Solomon's time and David's time (Nathan) would have held the Melchizedek priesthood.

[The Nehor]

The Melchizedek priesthood is kind of hamfistedly assumed to have been around and forced into ancient narratives to try to maintain consistency.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

If so, marriages and other MP-requiring ordinances performed in Temples prior to the Savior's life (and after - up until the Restoration) were perfomred via the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods, no?

Were there any such ordinances even done in temples prior to the Saviour’s life?

[nuclearfuels]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Were there any such ordinances even done in temples prior to the Saviour’s life?

Seems like they may have been performed by prophets who held the MP but the ordinance was completed outside the Temple, eh @InCognitus?

[Calm]

1 minute ago, nuclearfuels said:

Seems like they may have been performed by prophets who held the MP but the ordinance was completed outside the Temple, eh @InCognitus?

What examples of performed ordinances are you thinking there might be and what evidence for them is there? (Sincere question, not challenge.)

Edited September 27, 2024 by Calm

[nuclearfuels]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

?

 

1 hour ago, InCognitus said:

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

So - Melchizedek had the highest priesthood and gave it to Abraham or blessed Abraham via the MP. 

The Savior gave Peter, James and John the MP.

What happened between? An apostasy before the Apostasy, I believe? 

If so, marriages and other MP-requiring ordinances performed in Temples prior to the Savior's life (and after - up until the Restoration) were perfomred via the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods, no?

The Melchizedek priesthood was held by prophets of God between the time that Israel broke the covenant on Mount Sinai (and the Melchizedek priesthood was taken from among them and they were left with the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood), and the time of Christ.  As it says here in Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood: Basic Manual for Priesthood Holders, Part A, Lesson 2: The Priesthood from Adam to the Restoration:

Quote

Melchizedek Priesthood Taken from Israel

Abraham gave the priesthood to his son Isaac, and Isaac gave it to his son Jacob. Jacob’s name was changed to Israel, and thereafter Jacob’s descendants were known as the children of Israel.

In Moses’ day, after he had led the children of Israel out of Egypt, the Lord offered the children of Israel the fulness of His gospel. They rejected it, however, so the Lord took away from them the Melchizedek Priesthood and the higher ordinances of the gospel. They were left with laws that were to direct the physical, or temporal, activities of the people. These laws were administered by the Aaronic Priesthood (named after Aaron, the brother of Moses). Most of these laws are found in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy in the Old Testament. They were not meant to replace the fulness of the gospel, but were given as a way to prepare the children of Israel to live the gospel in its fulness at a later time.

Even though the Melchizedek Priesthood was taken from Israel as a nation, it was not permanently taken from the earth. Between the time of Moses and the coming of Jesus Christ, several prophets held the Melchizedek Priesthood. Some of these prophets were Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lehi, Daniel, and Ezekiel.

So I suspect that the prophets that were around during Solomon's time and David's time (Nathan) would have held the Melchizedek priesthood.

 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

 

[previous post]

This just speaks to having the MP, not what was done with it.  Besides receiving revelation for their community and individuals and anointing kings king, I can’t think of other MP ordinances that were performed, but my mind may be spacing today.

There is nothing that I remember that says endowments of any type or marriages were performed in the temple or by prophets.

Edited September 27, 2024 by Calm

[CV75]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

So - Melchizedek had the highest priesthood and gave it to Abraham or blessed Abraham via the MP. 

The Savior gave Peter, James and John the MP.

What happened between? An apostasy before the Apostasy, I believe? 

If so, marriages and other MP-requiring ordinances performed in Temples prior to the Savior's life (and after - up until the Restoration) were perfomred via the Aaronic and Levitical priesthoods, no?

Therefore, Temple Work needs to be done for those who lived after Abraham and before the Savior, no? 

Part of this would include me serving as proxy for Solomon being sealed to his 700 wives and 300 concubines (w/ the acknowledged caveat that most of his marriages were political and that concubines were not wives but doing Temple work / showing devotion "not for the weeds" is also a net positive thing to do), no?

I'd be disappointed to learn we cant do this Temple work until the Millennium, when all those who passed away will do their own Temple work. Bruh.

My understanding that that the sealing keys of the "Melchizedek" priesthood have been introduced, transmitted, restored and removed in many times and places, wherever God's holy order was in place. General apostasy from this order has always been a problem, but we see in our canon that one people could have apostatized while another living elsewhere did not. Plus, we only have the narrative found in our canon, and there are other books.

I agree with an apostasy having been going on for a long time in Israel at the time of Jesus, and that the Great Apostasy, at least from the perspective of the Gentiles among whom the keys of the kingdom and the holy order were removed and then restored in 1830-ish, took place (who knows where an apostasy was not taking place?).

I think the sealings are more dependent on the keys than the presence of a temple, but a temple is dependent on there being an organized Zion people, not just a holy man who can seal and loose anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Temple work certainly needs to done for people within the time frame to which you are referring, but this does not mean that absolutely none received the ordinances of salvation and exaltation.

As with all temple work, Solomon's sealing(s) would need to be approved by the First Presidency and then ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise. 

I think name submission policies have to do with doing things in wisdom and in order.

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Seems like they may have been performed by prophets who held the MP but the ordinance was completed outside the Temple, eh @InCognitus?

Old Testament scripture doesn't specifically tell us this (if or where the ordinances were completed), but it sure seems to be implied in some of what is said by the prophets of that time, like when Nathan was grilling David for his behavior with Bathsheba and taking Uriah's life, when he spoke the words of the LORD and told him all the things that God had done for him (i.e. "Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom....", 2 Samuel 12:7–8). 

And Doctrine and Covenants 132:39 bears this out:  "David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord."

[CV75]

12 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

Old Testament scripture doesn't specifically tell us this (if or where the ordinances were completed), but it sure seems to be implied in some of what is said by the prophets of that time, like when Nathan was grilling David for his behavior with Bathsheba and taking Uriah's life, when he spoke the words of the LORD and told him all the things that God had done for him (i.e. "Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom....", 2 Samuel 12:7–8). 

And Doctrine and Covenants 132:39 bears this out:  "David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord."

@nuclearfuels plus it is was permissible in this dispensation to perform temple ordinances elsewhere, whether to baptize the dead or endow some saints, until one was built (D&C 124:28-39).

[Pyreaux]

The Letter to the Hebrews offers information about the features of the Melchizedek priesthood. In the New Testament, notice how at first glance that Melchizedek is said to have no earthly father, no earthly mother, rather he was a “Son of God” (Hebrews 7:3). Also, Melchizedek had “ariseth [(G#450) raised up (again), resurrected]” (Hebrews 7:11, 15).

The apotheosis of the Melchizedek priesthood transformed royal figures into priestly born-again sons of God (LXX, Ps 109:3-4; Ps 110:3-4; 2:7; 89:20, 26-27). Priestly Initiation rites were an attempt to prepare a man to enter into a transfigured state incase should God appear to him in his service. Creating temporary resurrected states are what we might prefer to call the “Transfigured” states, an effective and temporary “resurrected” state, an “angelic” state.

Moses the Melchizedek Priest

Moses was a “priest” (Psalms 99:1), yet he wasn’t one of Aaron’s sons, he was his brother. The later authority of the Aaronic High Priesthood was much more inferior to Moses’ own authority. Unlike a High Priest of Aaron, Moses was able to speak to the Lord, “face to face”. many times long before he was on Sinai (Deuteronomy 5:4-5). Before Sinai and the Sin of the Golden Calf, Moses and God spoke “mouth to mouth”, and Moses was permitted to see his “form” without any word of warning, no questions during it, or any lingering issues afterwards (Numbers 12:8).

It’s the priesthood that men in the past prepared themselves to interact with God in temple service and survive. First Century Jewish scholar, Philo of Alexandria, preeminent scholar among Egyptian Jews and from a High Priestly family (Jerome, On Illustrious Men, 11) says Moses' authority was different from Aaron's, the priesthood is necessary to approach God (Philo, Abr., 122), while Aaron could only prepare himself once a year, there was a higher priesthood that allowed Moses to endure it continually (Philo, Gig 52-55). Philo interprets "there shall be no man in the tabernacle" (Lev 16:17) when the High Priest enters the presence of God, as "he shall not be a man" (Philo, On Dreams 2:189-213). Hence, Moses was not a man, he transfigured when he saw God, and this is what made his face shine (Ex 34:29; Philo, Moses 1:158).

When Israel Commoners had the Royal Melchizedek Priesthood 

The Bible describes Apotheosis of the common Israelites. All Israel was originally intended to be made priests before the sin with the golden calf, not merely the Levites (Exodus 19:5-5; Deuteronomy 7:6-8). There were already a few non-Aaronic priests among them before the initiation of Aaron (Exodus 19:22). As some Israelites had been ritually preparing themselves, they washed their cloths (Exodus 19:10) but also immersed their bodies (Exodus 19:6, 14; Mekhilta on Exodus 19:14; Rambani on Exodus 19:14). And after this baptism, a washing ritual of the original Priesthood (Testament of Levi 8:2-10). It was the Priestly initiatory baptism, a ritual death and resurrection, enabled the Twelve Nobles from each tribe and the Seventy Elders of Israel to go halfway up the mountain with Aaron and survive the Theophany.

A change originates from the Lord, only after the Israelites sinned with the Golden Calf. Moses, as a Royal High Priest, after attempting to renew the Everlasting Covenant of Abraham, would amend it into the inferior Mosaic Covenant. Moses failed to implement the original Abrahamic covenant among them before he could even bring the Law for the Covenant down. Moses smashes the covenant tablets that were written by the “finger of God” (Exodus 32:19). In Jewish tradition, those were a different set of commandments. The Abrahamic Covenant was a royal-patriarchal priesthood greater than Moses'.

Regal Judge Gideon was a Melchizedek Priest

Gideon wasn’t a Levite, but was from the tribe of Manasseh, but he become consecrated a priest after he meets an “angel of the Lord” who was the Lord Himself (Judges 6:14-16). In the Book of Judges, the term “angel of the Lord” is almost always means “the Lord”. Judges says it was the “angel of the Lord” that slew the firstborn of Egypt (Judges 2:2), while the Mosaic accounts make it clear it was the Lord himself, and no one else (Exodus 12:12; Deuteronomy 32:35). So, Gideon saw God “face to face” (Judges 6:22). When he suddenly realized he has done the impossible, he gets worried that he is going to die, but doesn’t (Judges 6:16). Moses said that men aren’t supposed to be able to see God and live. If the exception is a priest, Gideon of non-Levitical decent, must have spontaneously transfigured. Elements of consecration that made him a Melchizedek priest. When he offers a meal to the angel on a rock, it then becomes transmuted into burnt offering, and act accepted which consecrated Gideon as a priest and he builds a pillar temple on the spot he saw God. “Consecration” means “to put into the hand”, a token of office in put in your hand. For Aaronic priests, incense or sacrificial meat is put in their hand, and they were supposed to throw it into the fire, and only after that act is a man consecrate to his office.

King David was a Melchizedek Priest

The Davidic kings at their coronation were made a “son” of the Lord (2 Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7), and King David said he was “anointed” and “raised up [qum (H#6965) raised up, resurrected] (2 Sa 23:1-2). David was anointed and ritually resurrected or “raised up” (Psalms 89:19) like Melchizedek was (Hebrews 7:15-17) and also reborn as a “son” of God (2 Samuel 7:2) in the Temple (Psalms 2:7; LXX, Psalms 109:3; 2 Kings 11:14) and during the king’s coronation, the temple priests sang a psalm to him declaring him a “priest after the order of Melchizedek” (Psalms 110:4). He would offer burnt offerings and peace offering before the Ark of the Covenant when it was brought to Jerusalem (2 Samuels 6:17-18). So it’s no great wonder that even King David saw the God of Israel twice (1 Kings 11:9). David “saw… the Lord stand… having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem… David and the elders of Israel… fell upon their faces” (1 Chronicles 16:38-40; 2 Chronicles 1:2-13).

Solomon built the Temple on the exact place they physically saw God standing. Solomon offered sacrifices himself three times a year (1 Kings 9:25).

Exile of the Melchizedek priests from Israel came at the end of the Davidic kings, and end of prophets once the Levites violently drove them away, and the rest went to Arabia. The royal priests later returned to gift the new King with the priestly myrrh oil from Arabia

Edited September 28, 2024 by Pyreaux

[nuclearfuels]

On 9/27/2024 at 10:30 PM, Pyreaux said:

Exile of the Melchizedek priests from Israel came at the end of the Davidic kings, and end of prophets once the Levites violently drove them away, and the rest went to Arabia. The royal priests later returned to gift the new King with the priestly myrrh oil from Arabia

WOW! 

Thank you, Pyreaux!
Any chance you could share sources on the part of your response I quoted? 

THe three kings have alwasy fascinated me and I recall vaguely someone saying they had the Melchezidek Priesthood, maybe James E. Talmage but I wasnt able to find the reference

[JAHS]

On 9/27/2024 at 11:11 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Therefore, Temple Work needs to be done for those who lived after Abraham and before the Savior, no?

Even if that were he case how could we do it now without the required amount of information needed?😄 😉

[nuclearfuels]

12 hours ago, JAHS said:

Even if that were he case how could we do it now without the required amount of information needed?😄 😉

100% agreed.

That's really my question here - FamilySearch states: Vital records for people born prior to A.D. 200 are generally considered unreliable, except for some Asian countries. As such, Family Tree does not qualify people who lived before A.D. 200 for temple ordinances unless they are from China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, or Singapore.

There are billions of deceased people whose work can not be done, if FS' claim is correct.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

100% agreed.

That's really my question here - FamilySearch states: Vital records for people born prior to A.D. 200 are generally considered unreliable, except for some Asian countries. As such, Family Tree does not qualify people who lived before A.D. 200 for temple ordinances unless they are from China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, or Singapore.

There are billions of deceased people whose work can not be done, if FS' claim is correct.

Cannot be done right now, as in permissible by policy.

Edited September 30, 2024 by CV75

[Pyreaux]

On 9/29/2024 at 8:29 PM, nuclearfuels said:

WOW! 

Thank you, Pyreaux!
Any chance you could share sources on the part of your response I quoted? 

THe three kings have alwasy fascinated me and I recall vaguely someone saying they had the Melchezidek Priesthood, maybe James E. Talmage but I wasnt able to find the reference

Wisemen of Israel

There were others in Israel that bore the signs of the Royal Priesthood within the Royal Cult. "Wise Men" were special councilors to the King that possessed political authority, they are on the list allong with Prophets and Priests that the Israelite establishment recognized "cunning artificer [Wisemen of the Arts]" (Isa 3:3) In the name of the Lord, they would prophecy, divine and read dreams in Jerusalem (Jer 29:8). Functioning no different than the wisemen of the foreign nations; Egypt (Ex 7:11), Babylon (Jer 50:35), Tyre (Eze 27:9) and Edom (Obad 8). Operating in royal courts with the same practices and duties as Joseph served in Egypt's Court (Gen 41:8, 41) and as Daniel served in Babylon (Dan 1:19-20).

Moses deployed the Wisemen of Israel to make the priestly garments (Ex 28:3) and to build the Tabernacle (Ex 36:4) as they had been endowed with special abilities by the Spirit (Ex 35:31). They honed and wielded secret arts also called "wisdom", knowledge from heaven, they had ascended to retrieve and returned with knowledge and power (Job 15:8; Prov 30:1-4). Just as Paul ascended (2 Cor 12:2) and returned with "hidden wisdom" (1 Cor 2:7).

Now, in the narratives in which the foreign Wisemen appear is when they are often clashing with the Prophets, and so we often classify these characters as frauds and their arts as magic tricks. But the texts don't say that, many could hold their own against a prophet, the Prophets were simply more effective (Ex 7:12) crediting the Lord for their great skill (Gen 41:6; Dan 2:27). Those condemned were not condemned for possessing a false wisdom, but for corrupting true wisdom, or having a the wrong spirit behind it. The king of Tyre was a true wise man, "wiser than Daniel" (Eze 28:3) but punished for corrupting it (Eze 28:17).

The Davidic Kings of Israel were all themselves ideally Wisemen (Isa 11). King David was "wise" as a "[god]" (2 Sam 14:20), King Solomon was "wise" (1 King 3:88; 10:23; 2 Chr 9:22). When they were anointed as king and Melchizedek priests, the spirit gifted them with prophecy (1 Sam 10:10). Possessing a variety of means to communicate with the divine, like dreams (Job 4:12-13; 35:14-15).

Astronomy and Astrology

Wisdom consisted of secrets of natural phenomena, utilizing stars, either by a specific astral sign or by mathematics, they reckoned the proper times to determine when the prophecy has come to pass. Jews were known to be Astronomers; naming, numbering and binding stars were the signs of power (Ps 147:4-5; Isa 40:26; Job 9:8; 38:31). Israelite Wise men were employed as navigators and shipwrights (Eze 27:8-9). Jewish literature credits Abraham as a master Astronomer, "Look now towards the heaven and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them" (Gen 15:5)

Healing and Exorcism

Some wisdom included healing arts, a gift form the Father (Ex15:26; Deut 32:39; Job 5:18) given to prophets (1 King 17, Isa 39) and to the Priest Kings. Which is why Naaman had the expectation that the King can heal (sp') his leprosy (2 King 5:6). This gift is closely related to exorcism, as destroyer angels can be the cause of pestilence (1 Chr 21:12-16). There are invisible forces behind natural phenomena. When King Solomon asked for wisdom, he uttered 3000 proverbs all about... nature (1 King 4:32) but none of it survives in the Bible. Josephus says that King Solomon left behind methods of exorcism and binding demons (Antiquities of the Jews 8:45 or 8:2.5, handwritten notes) and may have been influenced by the Testament of Solomon, as it is believed to date before the Talmud.

The New Testament Disciples, like the soothsayers of old, divined the future through dreams (Matt 1:20; 2:12; 19:22), like the astrologists of old, divined with astral signs (Matt 2:2; 24:24; Mark 13:24; Luke 21:25), like the sorcerers of old, divined by casting lots (Acts 1:26)

The Melchizedek Priest's War and Exile

There were priests serving at other "royal" temples at the behest of the King appointed to burn incense (Amos 7:13) and were deposed by the Levites' Deuteronomic Reform (2 Kg 23:5-20). Any priest who did not descend from Levi were getting killed, "put down", others refused to serve the Temple of Jerusalem (2 King 23:9). The Jews remembered that a large number of priests of these other temples wouldn't accept the reform and fought along side the Chaldeans on the side of King Nebuchadnezzar against Jerusalem and when they razed Jerusalem and its Temple to the ground, King Nebuchadnezzar dismissed them to settle "among the Ishmaelites" in Arabia (Jerusalem Talmud, j. Ta'anit 4:5). Jeremiah who was also a constant supporter of the Babylonian campaign records the King Zedekiah saying, "I am afraid of the Jews who have deserted to the Chaldeans, lest I be handed over to them and they harm me" (Jer 38:19).

Why Arabia? With all the Temple of Israel destroyed, there were still temples that still stood outside Israel. The Ka'aba (The Cube) is nearly the exact same dimensions as the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem. Islam says the Ka'aba was built by Abraham and Ishmael and dedicated to Allah. The Genesis Apocryphon describes that Abraham traveled to the East of the Euphrates and around the coast of Arabia (1Q20.XXI)

A large number of priests also joined the church in Jerusalem (Acts 6:7), where from? Christian Arabs often made the "hajj" pilgrimage to the Ka'aba. When Paul was converted, he first left to Arabia, I'd suppose to reeducate himself, he returned to tell that Christianity is the legacy of Abraham, not Moses, he returned rather anti-Mosaic Law. Arabia certainly possessed strong Abrahamic traditions and a deep dislike of the Jews, who've altered the book of Allah (Deuteronomic texts) and wrote books in their own names (Ezra).

Kings from the East

There was a foreign presence that came seeking the new king of the Jews, and gifted him everything they would need to coronate a king, a real king, a messiah. A messiah (H#4899) anointed one, meaning someone poured oil on him in a ceremony and empowered him.

A group of Wisemen, "[Magi]", came from the east of Palestine (Arabia) (Matt 2:1-12) who were a lot like the old Wisemen, they told the stars and dreamed dreams (Matt 2:2, 12). Clearly spiritually sensitive, gifted and sent on a divine errand from God the Father. "Magos” (G#3097) it denotes an oriental wiseman, originally a Persian priest, When Media united with Persia, the religious caste were there after called “Medians” and became a more general term for Wisemen and foreign priests throughout the Mediterranean world (Act 8:9; 13:6, 8). They started to be called Magians, in English became Magicians. Thus, “[Magus] Bar-Jesus” or Sorcerer in the KJV, was also known as “Elymas” in Aramaic which means “wise one” (Act 3:6-12).

The significance of the gifts seems lost to modern Christians. Frankincense and Myrrh was made in Arabia (the East country), used in perfume, ointments and embalming. But the myrrh was not for embalming Jesus, Nicodemus provided the embalming myrrh (John 19:39). Myrrh oil was a special mixture of myrrh, cinnamon and olive oil (Ex 30:23-29) used in the anointing oil for the anointed kings and priests (1 Sam 10:1; 16:1, 13; 1 King 1:39). The Twelve Princes gave Moses a golden spoon full of Frankincense (Num 7:84-86) and Moses gave it to Aaron the High Priest to burn. (1 King 7:50; 2 Chr 24:14), which he was to put into the hollow of his right hand and without dropping a grain, toss it into the fire (Lev 6:12-13). This consecrated the priest (Ex 32:39; Lev 8:33; 16:32; 21:10; Num 3:3; Jdg 17:5, 12; 1 Kg 13:33; 1 Chr 29:5; 2 Chr 19:31; Jer 44:25).

Even the, “Christ [the anointed one] glorified not himself to be made a High Priest” (Heb 5:4-6)

Edited October 1, 2024 by Pyreaux

[nuclearfuels]

4 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

)

THank you!

Are you writing or copying from a book you wrote? You're like Nibley-level, bruh

[Pyreaux]

I had to type it up out my study notes, from several materials I've gleaned and compiled into "my manifesto, all of us hermits have one".

 

Edited October 1, 2024 by Pyreaux

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Wisemen of Israel

There were others in Israel that bore the signs of the Royal Priesthood within the Royal Cult. "Wise Men" were special councilors to the King that possessed political authority, they are on the list allong with Prophets and Priests that the Israelite establishment recognized "cunning artificer [Wisemen of the Arts]" (Isa 3:3) In the name of the Lord, they would prophecy, divine and read dreams in Jerusalem (Jer 29:8). Functioning no different than the wisemen of the foreign nations; Egypt (Ex 7:11), Babylon (Jer 50:35), Tyre (Eze 27:9) and Edom (Obad 8). Operating in royal courts with the same practices and duties as Joseph served in Egypt's Court (Gen 41:8, 41) and as Daniel served in Babylon (Dan 1:19-20).

Moses deployed the Wisemen of Israel to make the priestly garments (Ex 28:3) and to build the Tabernacle (Ex 36:4) as they had been endowed with special abilities by the Spirit (Ex 35:31). They honed and wielded secret arts also called "wisdom", knowledge from heaven, they had ascended to retrieve and returned with knowledge and power (Job 15:8; Prov 30:1-4). Just as Paul ascended (2 Cor 12:2) and returned with "hidden wisdom" (1 Cor 2:7).

Now, in the narratives in which the foreign Wisemen appear is when they are often clashing with the Prophets, and so we often classify these characters as frauds and their arts as magic tricks. But the texts don't say that, many could hold their own against a prophet, the Prophets were simply more effective (Ex 7:12) crediting the Lord for their great skill (Gen 41:6; Dan 2:27). Those condemned were not condemned for possessing a false wisdom, but for corrupting true wisdom, or having a the wrong spirit behind it. The king of Tyre was a true wise man, "wiser than Daniel" (Eze 28:3) but punished for corrupting it (Eze 28:17).

The Davidic Kings of Israel were all themselves ideally Wisemen (Isa 11). King David was "wise" as a "[god]" (2 Sam 14:20), King Solomon was "wise" (1 King 3:88; 10:23; 2 Chr 9:22). When they were anointed as king and Melchizedek priests, the spirit gifted them with prophecy (1 Sam 10:10). Possessing a variety of means to communicate with the divine, like dreams (Job 4:12-13; 35:14-15).

Astronomy and Astrology

Wisdom consisted of secrets of natural phenomena, utilizing stars, either by a specific astral sign or by mathematics, they reckoned the proper times to determine when the prophecy has come to pass. Jews were known to be Astronomers; naming, numbering and binding stars were the signs of power (Ps 147:4-5; Isa 40:26; Job 9:8; 38:31). Israelite Wise men were employed as navigators and shipwrights (Eze 27:8-9). Jewish literature credits Abraham as a master Astronomer, "Look now towards the heaven and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them" (Gen 15:5)

Healing and Exorcism

Some wisdom included healing arts, a gift form the Father (Ex15:26; Deut 32:39; Job 5:18) given to prophets (1 King 17, Isa 39) and to the Priest Kings. Which is why Naaman had the expectation that the King can heal (sp') his leprosy (2 King 5:6). This gift is closely related to exorcism, as destroyer angels can be the cause of pestilence (1 Chr 21:12-16). There are invisible forces behind natural phenomena. When King Solomon asked for wisdom, he uttered 3000 proverbs all about... nature (1 King 4:32) but none of it survives in the Bible. Josephus says that King Solomon left behind methods of exorcism and binding demons (Antiquities of the Jews 8:45 or 8:2.5, handwritten notes) and may have been influenced by the Testament of Solomon, as it is believed to date before the Talmud.

The New Testament Disciples, like the soothsayers of old, divined the future through dreams (Matt 1:20; 2:12; 19:22), like the astrologists of old, divined with astral signs (Matt 2:2; 24:24; Mark 13:24; Luke 21:25), like the sorcerers of old, divined by casting lots (Acts 1:26)

The Melchizedek Priest's War and Exile

There were priests serving at other "royal" temples at the behest of the King appointed to burn incense (Amos 7:13) and were deposed by the Levites' Deuteronomic Reform (2 Kg 23:5-20). Any priest who did not descend from Levi were getting killed, "put down", others refused to serve the Temple of Jerusalem (2 King 23:9). The Jews remembered that a large number of priests of these other temples wouldn't accept the reform and fought along side the Chaldeans on the side of King Nebuchadnezzar against Jerusalem and when they razed Jerusalem and its Temple to the ground, King Nebuchadnezzar dismissed them to settle "among the Ishmaelites" in Arabia (Jerusalem Talmud, j. Ta'anit 4:5). Jeremiah who was also a constant supporter of the Babylonian campaign records the King Zedekiah saying, "I am afraid of the Jews who have deserted to the Chaldeans, lest I be handed over to them and they harm me" (Jer 38:19).

Why Arabia? With all the Temple of Israel destroyed, there were still temples that still stood outside Israel. The Ka'aba (The Cube) is nearly the exact same dimensions as the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem. Islam says the Ka'aba was built by Abraham and Ishmael and dedicated to Allah. The Genesis Apocryphon describes that Abraham traveled to the East of the Euphrates and around the coast of Arabia (1Q20.XXI)

A large number of priests also joined the church in Jerusalem (Acts 6:7), where from? Christian Arabs often made the "hajj" pilgrimage to the Ka'aba. When Paul was converted, he first left to Arabia, I'd suppose to reeducate himself, he returned to tell that Christianity is the legacy of Abraham, not Moses, he returned rather anti-Mosaic Law. Arabia certainly possessed strong Abrahamic traditions and a deep dislike of the Jews, who've altered the book of Allah (Deuteronomic texts) and wrote books in their own names (Ezra).

Kings from the East

There was a foreign presence that came seeking the new king of the Jews, and gifted him everything they would need to coronate a king, a real king, a messiah. A messiah (H#4899) anointed one, meaning someone poured oil on him in a ceremony and empowered him.

A group of Wisemen, "[Magi]", came from the east of Palestine (Arabia) (Matt 2:1-12) who were a lot like the old Wisemen, they told the stars and dreamed dreams (Matt 2:2, 12). Clearly spiritually sensitive, gifted and sent on a divine errand from God the Father. "Magos” (G#3097) it denotes an oriental wiseman, originally a Persian priest, When Media united with Persia, the religious caste were there after called “Medians” and became a more general term for Wisemen and foreign priests throughout the Mediterranean world (Act 8:9; 13:6, 8). They started to be called Magians, in English became Magicians. Thus, “[Magus] Bar-Jesus” or Sorcerer in the KJV, was also known as “Elymas” in Aramaic which means “wise one” (Act 3:6-12).

The significance of the gifts seems lost to modern Christians. Frankincense and Myrrh was made in Arabia (the East country), used in perfume, ointments and embalming. But the myrrh was not for embalming Jesus, Nicodemus provided the embalming myrrh (John 19:39). Myrrh oil was a special mixture of myrrh, cinnamon and olive oil (Ex 30:23-29) used in the anointing oil for the anointed kings and priests (1 Sam 10:1; 16:1, 13; 1 King 1:39). The Twelve Princes gave Moses a golden spoon full of Frankincense (Num 7:84-86) and Moses gave it to Aaron the High Priest to burn. (1 King 7:50; 2 Chr 24:14), which he was to put into the hollow of his right hand and without dropping a grain, toss it into the fire (Lev 6:12-13). This consecrated the priest (Ex 32:39; Lev 8:33; 16:32; 21:10; Num 3:3; Jdg 17:5, 12; 1 Kg 13:33; 1 Chr 29:5; 2 Chr 19:31; Jer 44:25).

Even the, “Christ [the anointed one] glorified not himself to be made a High Priest” (Heb 5:4-6)

So what kind of drugs were consumed by the author that wrote this? Or was it some kind of fever dream?

[Pyreaux]

18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So what kind of drugs were consumed by the author that wrote this? Or was it some kind of fever dream?

Not all are complete thoughts, my notes are for me, it's not exactly written for public consumption. I might be on the autism spectrum, some think.

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Not all are complete thoughts, my notes are for me, it's not exactly written for public consumption. I might be on the autism spectrum, some think.

And one of your special interests is the Melchizedek priesthood or all things ancient Israelite priesthood?  A rather ideal interest for a Latter-day Saint.