Ward and Stake Leadership Repeat Callings: Have you seen repeat line-ups, similar cast of characters?

[nuclearfuels]

Noticed a trend in my stake - curious to see what you all have observed. Please share.

One ward has a bishop who served in a prior stake presidency. 

This same ward's prior bishop was a branch president of the same congrgation a few years/decades prior.

One ward has a new elder's quorum presidency - comprised of a fomer bishop, and two former stake high councilmen.

I understand the need for prior bishops to serve as stake high councilmen and in stake presidencies. 

Acknowledging that at times callings are extended and rejected, and in high cost of living areas some wards and stakes have a limited amount of tithe-paying, Melchezidek priesthood holders who have the time, means and ability to serve in such callings - still - calling the same or a similar line of leadership for ward positions - after they've served in stake leadership positions - doesn't teach the current generation of people who are ready and willing to serve. This makes me consider that money, income, wealth are in fact greater influences in obtaining leadership positions than I previously thought. 

Finishing the line of thinking - if serving in whatever calling one is given while maintaing a Temple recommend (paying tithing, etc.) - in other words, experience - doesn't help people progress - at least not in terms of having more asked of them in the form of leadership callings - the experience is then good for what? Fast and testimony meeting?

 

[rpn]

Most of the stakes I have lived in (15) had people in their 30's or so in all but a couple of the High Councilor spots --- that role is useful for training in a whole lot of ways (even though part of their actual role is to train newbie bishops/clerks/EQPresidencies  where they need training.  

The most important criteria I know is that God has either pointed them out and/or the Spirit has confirmed that he is supposed to be/okay to be in the slot at the time.   I've lived in places with cliques of royal families always in charge rotationally,  and several of them were pretty unChristlike in their roles and therefore not so effective.   I've also lived in places where a group nutured newbies and eventually were no longer the royal families.   Bottom line,  if leaders are not careful in selecting who the Spirit dictates should be given those roles, it is that much harder for congregations to move towards Christ, though clearly not impossible.   Bottom line is either They approve and the saints will be okay,, OR THEY will correct the leaders and hold them accountable.  Members can be alright in both situations.

And yes, a lot of things suggest that men are having trouble these days with things that were either not as common or at least not known as much at church. 

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Noticed a trend in my stake - curious to see what you all have observed. Please share.

One ward has a bishop who served in a prior stake presidency. 

This same ward's prior bishop was a branch president of the same congrgation a few years/decades prior.

One ward has a new elder's quorum presidency - comprised of a fomer bishop, and two former stake high councilmen.

I understand the need for prior bishops to serve as stake high councilmen and in stake presidencies. 

Acknowledging that at times callings are extended and rejected, and in high cost of living areas some wards and stakes have a limited amount of tithe-paying, Melchezidek priesthood holders who have the time, means and ability to serve in such callings - still - calling the same or a similar line of leadership for ward positions - after they've served in stake leadership positions - doesn't teach the current generation of people who are ready and willing to serve. This makes me consider that money, income, wealth are in fact greater influences in obtaining leadership positions than I previously thought. 

Finishing the line of thinking - if serving in whatever calling one is given while maintaing a Temple recommend (paying tithing, etc.) - in other words, experience - doesn't help people progress - at least not in terms of having more asked of them in the form of leadership callings - the experience is then good for what? Fast and testimony meeting?

 

Our stake president was a counselor in the stake presidency before he was called and I think a lot of men in the HC or that have served in stake leadership have also been bishops before but I'm not positive on that.  We've only been in the stake for 10 years and I don't know people in other wards that well.

I think that often leadership callings build on themselves but I don't know if they are necessary for spiritual progress.  I hope to never been in a leadership calling again but I still also hope to spiritually grow and mature.  Hopefully those two goals aren't mutually exclusive.

[MustardSeed]

40 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Noticed a trend in my stake - curious to see what you all have observed. Please share.

One ward has a bishop who served in a prior stake presidency. 

This same ward's prior bishop was a branch president of the same congrgation a few years/decades prior.

One ward has a new elder's quorum presidency - comprised of a fomer bishop, and two former stake high councilmen.

I understand the need for prior bishops to serve as stake high councilmen and in stake presidencies. 

Acknowledging that at times callings are extended and rejected, and in high cost of living areas some wards and stakes have a limited amount of tithe-paying, Melchezidek priesthood holders who have the time, means and ability to serve in such callings - still - calling the same or a similar line of leadership for ward positions - after they've served in stake leadership positions - doesn't teach the current generation of people who are ready and willing to serve. This makes me consider that money, income, wealth are in fact greater influences in obtaining leadership positions than I previously thought. 

Finishing the line of thinking - if serving in whatever calling one is given while maintaing a Temple recommend (paying tithing, etc.) - in other words, experience - doesn't help people progress - at least not in terms of having more asked of them in the form of leadership callings - the experience is then good for what? Fast and testimony meeting?

 

Yes have seen.  But not exclusively.  

[CV75]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Noticed a trend in my stake - curious to see what you all have observed. Please share.

One ward has a bishop who served in a prior stake presidency. 

This same ward's prior bishop was a branch president of the same congrgation a few years/decades prior.

One ward has a new elder's quorum presidency - comprised of a fomer bishop, and two former stake high councilmen.

I understand the need for prior bishops to serve as stake high councilmen and in stake presidencies. 

Acknowledging that at times callings are extended and rejected, and in high cost of living areas some wards and stakes have a limited amount of tithe-paying, Melchezidek priesthood holders who have the time, means and ability to serve in such callings - still - calling the same or a similar line of leadership for ward positions - after they've served in stake leadership positions - doesn't teach the current generation of people who are ready and willing to serve. This makes me consider that money, income, wealth are in fact greater influences in obtaining leadership positions than I previously thought. 

Finishing the line of thinking - if serving in whatever calling one is given while maintaing a Temple recommend (paying tithing, etc.) - in other words, experience - doesn't help people progress - at least not in terms of having more asked of them in the form of leadership callings - the experience is then good for what? Fast and testimony meeting?

 

I think the general idea is that we grow spiritually no matter our circumstance when we are yoked with the Lord. It is a great joy to bless others in our daily walk and conversation whether or not we have a calling or a leadership calling. Also, I've seen all sorts of perceived "patterns" and "critiques" of them come and go. The body of Christ is such that no matter who serves where, all are able to be one with the Lord despite the imperfections of the members. As they work together in councils, things get sorted out in the long haul.

[Pyreaux]

The new Elder's Quorum President here is a former Bishop 20 years, I thought was unusual. We elders are used to leaders being more able bodied, who'd lead efforts from the front. It seems like they're calling upon the old guard. Though I stopped thinking too hard, and just assumed its due to the restructuring of the High Priest Quorums into to Elders Quorum, new leaders are being chosen from the high priests too, if not preferably. I hate to think its somehow because there is a lack of worthy, willing, and financially stable tithe payers among the whole bunch.

[Peacefully]

One of my favorite bishops was a primary teacher after serving as bishop. I went from RS Pres to YW Pres to primary. I think primary is a great place for former leaders:) 

[mfbukowski]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:13 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Noticed a trend in my stake - curious to see what you all have observed. Please share.

One ward has a bishop who served in a prior stake presidency. 

This same ward's prior bishop was a branch president of the same congrgation a few years/decades prior.

One ward has a new elder's quorum presidency - comprised of a fomer bishop, and two former stake high councilmen.

I understand the need for prior bishops to serve as stake high councilmen and in stake presidencies. 

Acknowledging that at times callings are extended and rejected, and in high cost of living areas some wards and stakes have a limited amount of tithe-paying, Melchezidek priesthood holders who have the time, means and ability to serve in such callings - still - calling the same or a similar line of leadership for ward positions - after they've served in stake leadership positions - doesn't teach the current generation of people who are ready and willing to serve. This makes me consider that money, income, wealth are in fact greater influences in obtaining leadership positions than I previously thought. 

Finishing the line of thinking - if serving in whatever calling one is given while maintaing a Temple recommend (paying tithing, etc.) - in other words, experience - doesn't help people progress - at least not in terms of having more asked of them in the form of leadership callings - the experience is then good for what? Fast and testimony meeting?

 

The fact is that the church is shrinking, and there are fewer worthy and willing to serve in any calling to which they are called.

Trying to link this to economics or some conspiracy is just silly.

And where are all these wonderful younger folks?

THAT is our problem.

They don't exist.  In So.Cal. they just ain't there

Edited August 5, 2023 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

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Edited August 5, 2023 by mfbukowski
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[mfbukowski]

On 8/3/2023 at 12:54 PM, Pyreaux said:

. I hate to think its somehow because there is a lack of worthy, willing, and financially stable tithe payers among the whole bunch.

Yep it's hard to take, but unfortunately, true.

Our God is a glorified "Superhuman". We need to realize that the perfection of humanity IS the goal of both the church AND "Humanism", which is presently godless.

We need to see the link, and that we ARE the missing link between God and humanity in the way that secularism sees it.

Technically we are both materialists and humanists, we just need to show the world what that could mean: an immanent God almost like Nietzsche's Ubermensch.  We are made in His image, and Christ is the direct model.

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by mfbukowski

[2BizE]

Sounds like a recirculating of callings to the Top 10 families….

Edited August 7, 2023 by 2BizE
Spelling

[JAHS]

35 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

Sounds like a recirculating of callings to the Top 10 families….

[Peacefully]

16 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Funny, but not funny because it is so close to the truth. 

[nuclearfuels]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:41 AM, mfbukowski said:

Yep it's hard to take, but unfortunately, true.

Our God is a glorified "Superhuman". We need to realize that the perfection of humanity IS the goal of both the church AND "Humanism", which is presently godless.

We need to see the link, and that we ARE the missing link between God and humanity in the way that secularism sees it.

Technically we are both materialists and humanists, we just need to show the world what that could mean: an immanent God almost like Nietzsche's Ubermensch.  We are made in His image, and Christ is the direct model.

 

On 8/3/2023 at 3:54 PM, Pyreaux said:

I hate to think its somehow because there is a lack of worthy, willing, and financially stable tithe payers among the whole bunch.

Maybe I'm just naive - and not a philosopher - but I dont think there's an absence of worthy, willing, and financially stable tithe payers in my stake let alone the entire church. That's more of a conspiracy than anything I wrote in this Q&A.  

Don't people grow into callings as they serve in them? If you're not growing is the calling very challenging then?

[Sunspot]

I think that some of it has at least something to do with the recently clarified role of the Elder's Quorum President. So many of the issues that used to be deemed to be the sole responsibility of the Bishop are now appropriately placed in the hands of the EQ president and RS president. When I was EQ president 20 years ago, I was not much more than a glorified moving coordinator that made sure a lesson was being taught and that there were home teaching assignments made. In other words, it made a lot of sense to have an energetic 20-something on the job (and there was a HP Group Leader to handle a lot of similar stuff as well).  It is so much more now. It is not surprising to me that Bishops are requesting more seasoned individuals to be EQ presidents - they are now doing many of the things bishops used to do, so why not have an former bishop do them. 

That's not to say that younger and less experienced individuals should not be considered. Our current Bishop (who was our immediate past EQ president) is young and  and worked exclusively with the cub scouts prior to any of the more recent significant callings.

[Duncan]

6 hours ago, Sunspot said:

I think that some of it has at least something to do with the recently clarified role of the Elder's Quorum President. So many of the issues that used to be deemed to be the sole responsibility of the Bishop are now appropriately placed in the hands of the EQ president and RS president. When I was EQ president 20 years ago, I was not much more than a glorified moving coordinator that made sure a lesson was being taught and that there were home teaching assignments made. In other words, it made a lot of sense to have an energetic 20-something on the job (and there was a HP Group Leader to handle a lot of similar stuff as well).  It is so much more now. It is not surprising to me that Bishops are requesting more seasoned individuals to be EQ presidents - they are now doing many of the things bishops used to do, so why not have an former bishop do them. 

That's not to say that younger and less experienced individuals should not be considered. Our current Bishop (who was our immediate past EQ president) is young and  and worked exclusively with the cub scouts prior to any of the more recent significant callings.

I just got called to be EQP for the 3rd time round. I agree with you it's a moving coordinator/teaching/ministering. One thing that I don't want the calling to be is I odn't mind helping the Bishop but I refuse to enable the Bishop, I am not doing his dirty work for him.