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Mormonchallenges.Org: A New Site For Lds Dealing With Challenging Questions?

BCSpace

By BCSpace
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BCSpace Grand Master

BCSpace

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://www.mormonchallenges.org

Thought some of you would be interested in this site. It has been claimed to be run by Dennis Packard, professor of Philosophy at BYU. Watched one video and it all seems to be geared towards helping LDS deal will difficult questions. Several vids on the BoA issue which I have not watched yet.

It is starting to cause a stir on the usual antiMormon sites. Note that it does not have the usual disclaimer about not being an affiliated with the Church etc. nor does it have the official stamp of the Church. There seems to have been a lot of work put into making the videos; the narratives, etc.

It's actually perhaps not so new as the copyright date is 2010.

Edited by BCSpace
rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
Posted

http://www.mormonchallenges.org

Thought some of you would be interested in this site. It has been claimed to be run by Dennis Packard, professor of Philosophy at BYU. Watched one video and it all seems to be geared towards helping LDS deal will difficult questions. Several vids on the BoA issue which I have not watched yet.

It is starting to cause a stir on the usual antiMormon sites. Note that it does not have the usual disclaimer about not being an affiliated with the Church etc. nor does it have the official stamp of the Church. There seems to have been a lot of work put into making the videos; the narratives, etc.

It's actually perhaps not so new as the copyright date is 2010.

The website's copyright date is 2010 but the mormonchallenges youtube channel that it links to was created just one month ago. All the videos were uploaded over the course of the past three weeks.

I have not yet listened to the videos but, at first glance, they look professionally produced. It could be the church's attempt to address some of the common things that cause faith crises among members. That would be a good thing.

ALarson Grand Master

ALarson

Posted
Posted

I watched the video "Alone" and it was pretty good. It ended a bit weird in my opinion (just kind of abrupt and dismissive regarding the concerns of the young married man in the video).

It does have the voice of John Dehlin (when it portrays them watching one of his podcasts, I guess?) and also, I believe the voice of Terryl Givens at the very end of the video (again from another podcast).

Overall, I thought it was well done.

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Stargazer Grand Master

Stargazer

Posted
Posted

http://www.mormonchallenges.org

Thought some of you would be interested in this site. It has been claimed to be run by Dennis Packard, professor of Philosophy at BYU. Watched one video and it all seems to be geared towards helping LDS deal will difficult questions. Several vids on the BoA issue which I have not watched yet.

It is starting to cause a stir on the usual antiMormon sites. Note that it does not have the usual disclaimer about not being an affiliated with the Church etc. nor does it have the official stamp of the Church. There seems to have been a lot of work put into making the videos; the narratives, etc.

It's actually perhaps not so new as the copyright date is 2010.

I'd tend to believe that Dennis Packard is definitely involved. The WhoIs information for the domain name has his name, and his contact email is his BYU email. There's no evidence that the church is officially involved, but if he's using his BYU email as the contact, then it seems possible.

Bill “Papa” Lee Grand Master

Bill “Papa” Lee

Posted
Posted

http://www.mormonchallenges.org

Thought some of you would be interested in this site. It has been claimed to be run by Dennis Packard, professor of Philosophy at BYU. Watched one video and it all seems to be geared towards helping LDS deal will difficult questions. Several vids on the BoA issue which I have not watched yet.

It is starting to cause a stir on the usual antiMormon sites. Note that it does not have the usual disclaimer about not being an affiliated with the Church etc. nor does it have the official stamp of the Church. There seems to have been a lot of work put into making the videos; the narratives, etc.

It's actually perhaps not so new as the copyright date is 2010.

When I need an uplift, I click on your link. I love that song!
DBMormon Grand Master

DBMormon

Posted
Posted

loved it......

Freedom Grand Master

Freedom

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the link. I wouldn't call the videos professionally done. The editing is a bit choppy and most of the time we are staring at the speaker rather than viewing extensive examples of what is being explained. Nevertheless, they provide a good foundation for the issues being discussed.

Darren10 Grand Master

Darren10

Posted
Posted (edited)

The website's copyright date is 2010 but the mormonchallenges youtube channel that it links to was created just one month ago. All the videos were uploaded over the course of the past three weeks.

I went to his You Tube account but found only a limited number of his videos uploaded. The ones from his website are tiny.

Edited by Darren10
BCSpace Grand Master

BCSpace

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
When I need an uplift, I click on your link. I love that song!

You're welcome! I'm just glad the link still works. CARM couldn't stand it. They banned me for posting it as evidence for the Christianity of and within (the love of Christ) the LDS Church. I can imagine that all sorts of devils snarl, gnash their teeth, and run away whenever someone enjoys that performance.

Edited by BCSpace
Helen47 Collaborator

Helen47

Posted
Posted

Interesting and well done video. I do not think the egyptologist had a decent argument for the "missing" scroll which IMO Cook and Smith have argued against. BTW the gentleman who plays the dad needs lose some weight. My husband who is slightly overweight was asked by our daughter to lose some weight in time for her marriage. She did not want a wobbly man walking her down the aisle.

cinepro Grand Master

cinepro

Posted
Posted (edited)

Weird video. It's like "The Wizard of Oz" for doubting members. Just follow the yellow brick road, trust your friends and family as you journey, watch out for the wicked witch (critics), find the "wizard" at the end (apologists), and there's no place like "home".

I have to be careful to not criticize the video based on my personal experiences, or the experiences of those I know, since I think it does a great job of presenting a more generic view of what people go through. And there is a wide range of reactions from spouses! I'm going to have my wife watch the video so she knows how she is supposed to act. But ultimately, given that the outcome of the video is pre-determined, it does the best it can to get to a positive ending.

My only complaint about the production quality is the music. It was definitely incongruous in parts, and it could have been skipped entirely for most scenes. I thought the writing was really, really good, and I laughed out loud at a few of the jokes, like the dad's observation that most of this stuff is "pretty boring" (13:23)

I really wonder what the real "casualty rate" is for people who get to the point of the guy in the video as far as their knowledge and doubts about the Book of Abraham. Because I know Kerry Muhlstein (I knew him when he was in Los Angeles years ago), and I respect him, but the problem with the Book of Abraham isn't that you have a group of smart LDS arguing against a group of smart anti-LDS (17:28) The problem is that the Book of Abraham (and its translation) is very simple, especially as presented by the Church, and it only gets complicated when the simple explanation is examined and found wanting.

Additional Note: The video needs to be footnoted. Every podcast, book or website they refer to, even circumspectly, should be explicitly footnoted.

Additional Additional Note: So when it's all said and done, aren't Justin and Jess "New Order Mormons"? There was no spiritual epiphany or vanquishing of doubt. It was more of an intellectual determination to stay the course in spite of their doubts (with the help of Teryl Givens, the patron saint of NOMs).

Additional Additional Additional Note: The caricature of the glib, closed-minded, condescending, recreational ex-Mormon (contrasted with the wise, earnest, office-sitting, sedentary LDS) is a little annoying. If Ryan had been wearing a suit and sitting at a desk and coherently summarized the problems the Book of Abraham, that probably would have been the end of the video right there.

Edited by cinepro
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Hamba Tuhan Grand Master

Hamba Tuhan

Posted
Posted (edited)

My husband who is slightly overweight was asked by our daughter to lose some weight in time for her marriage. She did not want a wobbly man walking her down the aisle.

I've read of people employing professional models for their bridal parties in order to guarantee that real people don't 'ruin' the day .. or the photos. Your daughter might want to check into that depending on how your husband goes.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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Tacenda Grand Master

Tacenda

Posted
Posted

I only like it for showing that those who question aren't evil apostates. And disappointed that there isn't another answer in addition to just keep believing until you know. Like in the "Nemo" movie..keep on swimming, keep on swimming, it's keep on believing, keep on believing.

wenglund Grand Master

wenglund

Posted
Posted
...And disappointed that there isn't another answer in addition to just keep believing until you know. Like in the "Nemo" movie..keep on swimming, keep on swimming, it's keep on believing, keep on believing.

Think of it as analogous to "keep eating healthy and exercising until you know whether healthy foods and exercise are true."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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Five Solas Mentor

Five Solas

Posted
Posted

Think of it as analogous to "keep eating healthy and exercising until you know whether healthy foods and exercise are true."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

or analogous to a steady diet of cigars, martinis & living to be 100. truth as shown by George Burns...

;0)

george-burns-later-1.jpg

changed Veteran

changed

Posted
Posted

I finally got around to watching it today, and even made a short blog post on it: link

What I liked:

- It tried to get to the core of the problem (and the core of the problem is not debating things like the book of Abraham)

- Showing the dad's willingness to really listen and understand his son - promoting the message that it's better to talk to people than to keep things inside.

- Pointing out that it's pointless to study both sides if you have already made up your mind - that you will find within pro-Mormon and anti-Mormon material what you want to find. If you want faith-promoting materials to promote your faith, you have to read it without being cynical.

What they missed:

- Glossing over the importance of the Spirit (implying that his mother's approach to serve/pray/seek spiritual guidance was incorrect), that the Spirit is real, and really is the source of a strong testimony.

- Glossing over what really started him questioning in the first place... it's never as simple as just watching some video.

- Pretending that the members in the church/bishopric/father/wife were naive about anti-Mormon stuff. I really don't think the general church membership is that clueless when it comes to these issues.

1
rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
Posted

I just finished watching the 30 minute "Alone" video on this site. I feel like it was really well done.

In my opinion, they did a good job of showing how people develop faith crises. The "shelf" analogy is one that speaks to a lot of people (in my experience). Touching on the spouse dynamics... not wanting to tell your spouse for fear of how they might react and because you don't want to instill doubts in them as well... was smart to include.

I liked that they used a great John Dehlin quote to encourage compassion towards those who struggle.

And, I love the Terryl Givens quote that they ended with.

cinepro Grand Master

cinepro

Posted
Posted

I finally got around to watching it today, and even made a short blog post on it: link

What I liked:

- It tried to get to the core of the problem (and the core of the problem is not debating things like the book of Abraham)

- Showing the dad's willingness to really listen and understand his son - promoting the message that it's better to talk to people than to keep things inside.

- Pointing out that it's pointless to study both sides if you have already made up your mind - that you will find within pro-Mormon and anti-Mormon material what you want to find. If you want faith-promoting materials to promote your faith, you have to read it without being cynical.

What they missed:

- Glossing over the importance of the Spirit (implying that his mother's approach to serve/pray/seek spiritual guidance was incorrect), that the Spirit is real, and really is the source of a strong testimony.

- Glossing over what really started him questioning in the first place... it's never as simple as just watching some video.

- Pretending that the members in the church/bishopric/father/wife were naive about anti-Mormon stuff. I really don't think the general church membership is that clueless when it comes to these issues.

So here's my question: who is the video for? Is it for friends, family members and leaders of those who doubt, to show them what the "doubting experience" can be like?

Or is it for those who are experiencing doubt themselves, to show them a path they should follow?

Because either way, I think the video fails. Notice how it doesn't ever mention any quotes from the scriptures or Church leaders (and, as you pointed out, it doesn't appeal to a spiritual witness). These points will be very important to people who are still non-doubting believers.

But I don't think it will help members in a faith crisis either. Sure, it dramatizes a possible journey (with a somewhat nebulous conclusion), but dramatizing someone dealing with their doubts about the Book of Abraham isn't the same as actually helping someone deal with their doubts about the Book of Abraham.

In other words, there may be a lot of orphan children who like the story of Annie, but that doesn't mean they all get to go live with Daddy Warbucks.

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rockpond Grand Master

rockpond

Posted
Posted

So here's my question: who is the video for? Is it for friends, family members and leaders of those who doubt, to show them what the "doubting experience" can be like?

Or is it for those who are experiencing doubt themselves, to show them a path they should follow?

Because either way, I think the video fails. Notice how it doesn't ever mention any quotes from the scriptures or Church leaders (and, as you pointed out, it doesn't appeal to a spiritual witness). These points will be very important to people who are still non-doubting believers.

But I don't think it will help members in a faith crisis either. Sure, it dramatizes a possible journey (with a somewhat nebulous conclusion), but dramatizing someone dealing with their doubts about the Book of Abraham isn't the same as actually helping someone deal with their doubts about the Book of Abraham.

In other words, there may be a lot of orphan children who like the story of Annie, but that doesn't mean they all get to go live with Daddy Warbucks.

I agree with your points. The video doesn't actually offer much in the way of solutions for anyone. So...

What if the video is just a way to try and de-stigmatize those with doubts? A way to open up the dialogue and say "let's all talk about this stuff"?

My fear, however, is that it creates an irrational fear of "those videos". :)

ALarson Grand Master

ALarson

Posted
Posted

I agree with your points. The video doesn't actually offer much in the way of solutions for anyone. So...

I agree. This is how I felt at the end. It only offered the solution to simply just "choose to believe". When someone is faced with newly found facts from church history or doctrines, they want answers and none were given (at least in this video, maybe there are more to come).

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