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About Gillebre

  • Birthday 10/08/1989

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    Clearfield, UT

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  1. I have a few thoughts to share about your assertion of denied companionship. Right now I'm in a similar position to the friend that @Bernard Gui is referring to. With all due respect I believe, and my experience informs me, that your views of the companionship you think we're missing are incomplete. If companionship is only the loving partnership of two people in this world, same gender or not, then I don't believe you're seeing the whole picture as we see it. If the Lord really does ask the Saints who are gay to forsake all other ideologies and practices outside of their covenants, making Him their highest priority, then surely He would provide a way for them to actually accomplish what He has asked of them. This is the very witness of all the scriptures, particularly the Book of Mormon, that in addition to our need for a Savior it is that same Savior who never gives a commandment without a way to fulfill it. This is our testimony: that living a celibate and faithful life is not an impossibility when you have God's pure witness to your very soul that He will provide a way where you can triumph over all your foes. Trust me when I say that I wouldn't be choosing this life if I didn't have the assurance that He had greater things in mind for me and could actually enable me to accomplish what He's asked. We could liken this in a way to other Christian traditions where certain groups of the faithful abstain from physical or sexual companionship. You may not think anything of it but there is a conviction and confidence that comes when we stand before Him willing to forsake everything we want and are in favor of what He wants to give us instead, and what He has in mind is far more grand, worthwhile, and outright majestic than anything we could accomplish if left to ourselves. What society calls happiness, peace, and satisfaction are sorely lacking in the eternal perspective that this life is not all there is, and what we have chosen to become through service, ministry, compassion, forgiveness, and grace means everything. Anyone who has sought with all their might, mind, and strength to become one with the Savior can likewise testify that this satisfaction surpasses all understanding while also transforming and purifying our mortal needs in a manner that enables us to be faithful to Him. I'm not saying that every person, every LGBT Saint, must make the same choice I've made, but that contrary to conventional wisdom, and Satan's deception, it's not impossible or undesirable as long as you can see something of what He sees. Again I say that If I didn't know that He was real and had a plan for me then I would be living as my feelings dictated, but I testify that He does live, and that His plan is to transform our perspective so that we can bear all things through and with Him. I wrote a journal entry the other day thanks to some prompting from a new friend, and I think it would be appropriate to share. I was asked how I could navigate the Gospel and Church of Jesus Christ while being attracted as I am. This is my perspective as a Saint who, due to countless experiences with the Lord, cannot deny the truth and light that this Gospel is everything it claims to be even as I struggle with answers the Lord hasn't given yet. I invite you and everyone, no matter what side of the debate you find yourself, to find more compassion for those striving to live their faith, and also for those who have felt to find their way outside of it. Both groups of Saints as well as everyone in between need all the love and generosity we can muster. It's not an either-or proposition despite how many voices claim you can only do one or the other.
  2. Thank you for sharing. You've given me a lot to think about. Must the Church abandon speaking about the doctrines that people find painful so as to stop doing what the world declares is spiritual/emotional violence? That's where I think this leads. We could find all manner of "harmful" doctrines, but in the end I think we also harm themselves by staying in darkness and confusion when it doesn't need to be that way.
  3. If you told me that you were hearing a message that I was clearly missing, and I was in pain because of how I felt about the message and the implications, but you insisted that the way I was seeing it was skewed, then I hope I'd be willing to ask if you're right and try to look at the message differently. I've felt terrible emotional pain from misunderstandings in the past. I would've given anything to be freed by a simple change in perspective, but I wasn't ready. There are so many dynamics that influence our worldview and how we perceive the messages and metaphors of others. I'm convinced, based on my own research into the pain being shared on social media, that the scope and intent of Elder Holland's words is not being considered. Speaking to faculty he was telling them, in their capacity as builders of a Temple of learning, that in a way like those who actually built the Nauvoo Temple, they would have to both build up their students while at the same time defending Gospel doctrines and the teachings of living Prophets while at BYU. These were words for teachers at school to be used during school, and ignoring that point is the problem. Could his metaphor about muskets be twisted to look like a call to action against a minority group? Of course, and anything can be twisted sufficiently away from the author's intent and context, and that has happened here. Are they wrong to feel pain, anguish, and confusion? I can't begrudge them for feeling how they feel, but I believe I know for a fact that if they receive the Holy Ghost, and ask, seeking diligently, walking in all holiness, they would receive insight into the truth of the matter and peace to their hearts. As someone who has been attracted to my own gender for so long I don't want them to suffer if they could just slow down, step back from the charged emotions of social media, and really reflect, instead of getting absorbed in the anguish, the chains of their hell. Circling back: if I'm suffering and you sincerely believe that at least in part it's because I'm not seeing things clearly, then I hope I'd be humble enough to ask you to help me out of the love you have for my soul. I would give anything to not suffer, and if a change in perspective through the power of the Holy Ghost is what it takes then so be it. I can testify that a daily change, a refinement in perspective, is exactly what we need in a world with so many competing voices declaring their truth. What those in pain really need is "the way, the truth, and the life." They need to make the Lord their highest authority rather than the idol of expressive individualism. Lastly: how does one determine who has "more" of the Holy Spirit? I think that's a great question for another thread, please make it, I'm interested in what people think. For now though I'd submit that the fruits of the Spirit are how we can tell, and in the context of an Apostle's speech (an Apostle known for incredible compassion and empathy for many years), if one is engulfed in pain and confusion because of what they take from his words (and from the cries of social media), then I'd say they probably don't have the Spirit because the fruits are missing. When we become surrounded by darkness we can lose the Spirit, but as we repent and change our minds it will return again.
  4. May I ask you what final evolved form do you hope/want to see in the Church's continuance over the coming years and decades? I've seen the concept mentioned in many places about steps forward and backwards, but I'm curious about the destination and the end thereof. I think there's something beneath the surface for many wherein they don't come right out and state the final result they want: complete spiritual/divine equality in the Church between traditional marriage and gay marriage. If this is the end thereof that people have in mind, and I know many that do, I believe that they are primed for a very emotional let down. The Apostles continually teach, unitedly and with one voice, that this outcome is contrary to the nature of what God has revealed about the heavenly life He wants to give us. There are other lives we can all have, and He will truly give us what we we can handle, a place our own where we'll be happiest in eternity, but I think we do a disservice if we build up false hope. I personally mourn for my brothers and sisters who hope for things that, as we understand the Plan and have living oracles, cannot be. I've witnessed our culture growing and changing for the good. The children of Zion are being refined, and you can identify them by their fruits of gentleness and compassion, but also by their unwavering loyalty in who the Lord has chosen to lead the Church. Satan is the worst offender here, I think, and the pain gets attributed to the Apostles. The pain the community feels, I believe, is at least partially because they are blinded by many things. Blinded by their holding onto false hope in an eternal paradox, blinded by their frustration that they can't keep telling themselves the doctrine will change if they just hold on, and even blinded by the growing realization that the middle ground they were standing on is becoming increasingly unstable. In short: they don't have the Holy Ghost to help them see the light that would make all things more clear, and help them see Elder Holland's words in their proper spirit. I'm absolutely certain of this because the Spirit has enlightened many members who, with ears to hear, can understand the message, and those who can't are left to sort it out on their own, being left to themselves. From 2 Nephi 32, I think these verses apply well. 4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark. 5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do. The biggest realization for me out of this speech by Elder Holland is, in my opinion, how widespread the spiritual blindness and deafness appear to be among so many. If you were to ask me about why the Spirit wouldn't restrain Elder Holland in his use of the musket analogy, God knowing the divisions that would result, I'd say this: it is we who divide ourselves by giving in to dark emotions, painful flames fanned by Satan and his angels, and the Lord insists that the wheat and the tares both be allowed to mature completely before the harvest. The pain and heartbreak are a result of their own worldview being founded on principles of expressive individualism and not in the worldview of Christian discipleship. The interpretation they choose hurts them, and the Spirit can't enlighten us unless we purify ourselves and seek Him. See this article for more insights into this phenomenon.
  5. May I trouble you to share where I could find these references in the Doctrine and Covenants?
  6. This is an interesting thought process. The fact that we are told that our bodies are quickened, in the Resurrection, by a portion of the glory that we will receive, does give me pause. My mind is drawn back to two ideas: will the Father ever stop trying to reach us, bless us, teach us, and will we ever reach a point where we are so darkened or so set in our ways that we lose the ability to grow and change? Is there an artificial barrier between Kingdoms wherein God cannot allow others who are hunger and thirsting for growth, for greater righteousness? Or is the barrier self-made wherein they become so comfortable and used to what they have that they can't conceive of having more, and no outside force can alter the use of their agency in their stagnation? More specifically does anyone have a thought as to the purpose of ministry from those greater glories to those in lesser glories? All that God does is to bless and nurture His children, so where do you think that ministry fits into the grand plan once the resurrection is complete? Obviously we're still missing several pieces of the big picture, but I'm interested to know what others think about this.
  7. Fascinating! Thanks for sharing! As I ponder these ideas I'm wondering if we feel like some sense of justice would be offended within us if people who were more comfortable in the other glories decided, eventually, to repent and grow. Humans can obviously become stagnant and refuse to grow, but after a few million years of the same thing I'm sure that at least some individuals will become open to eternal progress. Another thought I had: what's the point of ministering to those in the other glories if they can't grow and progress beyond their state? What would infinite grades of progression within the Terrestrial Kingdom, for example, matter when they can never reach exaltation eventually? Why do we minister in the Church? To help people make and keep covenants with the Lord, and to be steady on their path towards exaltation. The potential parallels between ministry on earth and ministry in the Kingdoms of Glory leads me to believe, at least preliminarily, that for those who do, in time, wish to grow and change, will have the ability to do so. For me it would mean casting off this weird feeling of injustice like how dare they, those who weren't valiant in the testimony of Jesus, get the chance, in the far future, to progress and join their eternal family? That caustic attitude would only lead to offending the Holy Ghost here on earth. I'm still thinking about this. What does everyone else think? I don't recall the other thread, but this is very interesting. Thanks Calm!!
  8. In my mind it's at least in part because alcohol isn't necessarily immoral in and of itself, whereas strip clubs most definitely are. In the age of cars and vehicles there are whole new layers of potential consequences, and a culture of getting wasted, drinking to great excesses, that did not exist in the far past. I think part of why we have the Word of Wisdom, therefore, is not that getting buzzed or drunk is morally wrong as much as it is about the tendency to consume too much that is common today. It's a transgression for members of the Church to partake because they specifically promise when they get baptized that they won't do it. Nonmembers have made no such promise with the Lord through this Church and aren't accountable like we are in that way. Evil thoughts in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, as well as the ongoing war against Satan and his angels.
  9. I just shared the exact same thought with my brother. Neither side of politics is safe from having their pet views challenged by the leadership of the Church with their perceived actions, or perceived lack of actions taken. All are being tested, stretched, and the Lord will refine His people until they are worthy of Zion, and embrace that holy culture of consecration. I've noticed at least in my own sphere, or maybe sensed, that there is a migration towards the middle of those who won't be deceived by extreme ideas on the right or the left. Who we associate with will have a gradual impact on us over time, and those who don't want to become either far left or far right seem to be, at least in my view and opinion, gravitating towards the middle/moderate side of things.
  10. Maybe it just feels sudden to me. I think it's been building for some time, and we haven't been challenged as a society or as a Church like this in recent memory, perhaps.
  11. I feel like there is a critical element of agency and it goes along with what you said: every person must make a choice to extend their trust however they will, the benefit of the doubt, and in my mind also must actively resist Satan's influence in however it affects them, and all will face various consequences for how they choose to follow, or not follow. I'm just shocked at how quickly the covering has been torn away from barely concealed rebelliousness once their pet views are on the altar of sacrifice.
  12. Thank you for taking a moment to respond! That just blows my mind. It really felt like a dive into the deep end of 'the church has gone apostate, the Prophet never receives real revelation anymore, they are in league with big pharma and the government, the Lord has allowed evil men to mislead His church, where is our Moroni to lead us against the kingmen?' Funny how we just studied the parable of the wheat and the tares and how the Lord gives as much time as possible for us to grow and progress before the harvest comes. It feels like our culture of outrage is removing from many the ability to extend trust, even as a child trusts their parent. All that's left is frustration and anger now that people can no longer pretend to what they claimed to believe before. "Oh if called upon I would give up everything to build Zion in the last days...but I won't give up my self-will and pride, I will NEVER wear a mask, NEVER get that vaccine, nothing the Prophet can say will change that." By refusing to be humble and give obedience in the small and simple things, I think we inadvertently disqualify ourselves from the greater blessings we tell ourselves will be ours someday.
  13. I spent some time last night and this morning reading all 13 pages of their replies to this topic over there. Yikes! What did I walk into? As a curiosity can I ask your take on that forum? Is it known to be one that has issues with the Church and Prophet? Or is this craziness something new for them, if you know? If you aren't aware that's okay, but wanted to ask because there were only a handful of people that didn't seem to be in open rebellion or opposition to the Prophet.
  14. Can I ask if you believe that the First Presidency are speaking on the Lord's behalf as they urge us to get vaccinated, and to wear masks when social distancing is impossible? If you don't believe their united voice constitutes as speaking for the Lord, what would you be willing to accept as authoritative and binding on us? Of course we always have agency, but in at least some of the responses I'm seeing, it doesn't seem like there's anything the Prophet could say to convince some people to act so long as it runs contrary to their assumptions about the vaccine, our elected leaders, and medical professionals. It feels as though it wouldn't matter if God Himself appeared and urged us to get the vaccine, many would find some way to justify why His counsel doesn't apply to their situation. I fear our inflexibility and stubbornness are closing us off from the light of Christ and the gift of the Holy Ghost. My high level observation is that finding ways to ignore the Prophet and Apostles only sets us up to be deceived later when Satan tempts us to find more reasons to disregard what they've advised us to do, or what they've warned us to avoid. The slippery slope wherein we've already decided it was okay in X circumstance, it's not as big of a leap to ignore them again.
  15. I believe that they're in isolated tribes in rural Russia, perhaps Siberia. I think they are being gathered through missionary work and patriarchal blessings, but also that there will be larger component where they come to Zion to receive their blessings in large numbers.
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