Bad Bishops

[StarMachinations]

I just want to see if I am alone. I’ve had more than one bishop sustained in my wards who have later been known to commit egregious sins such as adultery, abuse, etc. some of them have been caught and removed from office - and some of them were not removed from office as there was not enough “evidence” to contradict his words, or simply no one spoke up.

I just want to know of anyone who has had a bishop who sinned in such manner because when I speak to my contemporaries, they insist that I am a statistically irrelevant outlier. 
 

I don’t need stories per se, but a simple “yes” response would mean a lot.

 

[Tacenda]

Not bishops that I can think of, but 1st and 2nd counselors in two different wards. 

[bluebell]

I haven’t. 

[Calm]

I have had two who committed adultery, one while a bishop, the other might have been as a bishop (I think it probable), but definitely afterwards.  Neither was in Utah, btw. 
 

From what I have heard, it is unusual. Don’t know if “statistically irrelevant” or not. 

Edited August 9 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

I worked with a stake presidents wife a few years ago.  He had been living with a woman for some time and pretending he was married.  He left the church and I believe the arrangement remains.

I counseled a recovering couple 10 years ago where the husband was YM president and had had an affair with the YW president.  

Also our best friends 20 years ago originally and locally famously got together due to the fact that he was a bishop, counseling with an unhappily married woman, and they ended up having a child together.  Got married and still going (strong?). 

Being a therapist with deep ties to members for the past 25 years, i get a lot of information about people that I have to keep under wraps.  I can’t report details  to anyone unless I think a child or elderly person is in mortal danger.   Lots of friends and acquaintances in my ward end up on my doorstep to talk about newly discovered affairs and porn addictions.

People are messy.

Edited August 9 by MustardSeed

[blackstrap]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

People are messy.

True. Acts of unfaithfulness are directly proportional to the opportunities to do so. I once participated in a local playhouse company. The cheating hormones were on full display. A couple of marriages were lost . Bishops and other leaders who spend too much time one on one with a woman are playing with fire. 

As a side note , I was the replacement counselor in such a situation. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I worked with a stake presidents wife a few years ago.  He had been living with a woman for some time and pretending he was married.  He left the church and I believe the arrangement remains.

I counseled a recovering couple 10 years ago where the husband was YM president and had had an affair with the YW president.  

Also our best friends 20 years ago originally and locally famously got together due to the fact that he was a bishop, counseling with an unhappily married woman, and they ended up having a child together.  Got married and still going (strong?). 

Being a therapist with deep ties to members for the past 25 years, i get a lot of information about people that I have to keep under wraps.  I can’t report details  to anyone unless I think a child or elderly person is in mortal danger.   Lots of friends and acquaintances in my ward end up on my doorstep to talk about newly discovered affairs and porn addictions.

People are messy.

That would be a really heavy mental and emotional load.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, blackstrap said:

Acts of unfaithfulness are directly proportional to the opportunities to do so.

Directly?  No variable of internal faithfulness of an individual involved? Same rate of affairs per capita regardless of the morality of the potential fornicators and adulterers?   (I am in a nitpicky mood today, they are doing noisy roadwork on my street and it’s getting to me)

[Amulek]

4 hours ago, StarMachinations said:

I just want to know of anyone who has had a bishop who sinned in such manner because when I speak to my contemporaries, they insist that I am a statistically irrelevant outlier. 

I had one Bishop - back in the early days of the Internet - who left his wife and moved to California to be with some lady he met online. 

Never heard what came of him, but I certainly felt less concerned about his previously expressed disapproval of me dating his daughter. 

That being said, that's one Bishop in my entire life, so (statistically) I would consider that to be an outlier.

If you have run into multiple such situations I can believe that is possible, but it's certainly not common.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, blackstrap said:

True. Acts of unfaithfulness are directly proportional to the opportunities to do so. I once participated in a local playhouse company. The cheating hormones were on full display. A couple of marriages were lost . Bishops and other leaders who spend too much time one on one with a woman are playing with fire. 

As a side note , I was the replacement counselor in such a situation. 

I think that a lot of people don't have affairs who had/have opportunities to do so.  But I agree that there are situations that we can put ourselves in that can make it easier for feelings to develop (and then be acted on) between people who are married to other people and also situations that can thwart that from ever being an issue and develops. 

Smart people protect their marriages by staying out of the one kind of situation and being in the other, in my opinion.

(I also think that personality has some bearing on what kinds of situations are problematic and what kinds aren't for individual people.  Knowing ourselves and our weaknesses is huge).

[Pyreaux]

Just 1 former Branch President decades after his calling. Most Bishops I've known have been sturdy oaks.

Edited August 9 by Pyreaux

[rpn]

Chad Daybell was pretty well respected until he wasn't.

The last apostle excommunicated was in the 1940's I think for adultery (in a plural marriage from his perspective?

And then there was George P. Lee.

The calling(s) we have don't protect anyone from any of the wickedness of the world, after all.  It is only what we choose and what we become and what we decline to be involved in that protects us.

[bsjkki]

My sisters former Bishop was convicted of fraud and is serving 20 years. My daughter in laws father, who was in the Bishopric was convicted of rape. Personally, none of my Bishops or Bishopric members have ever committed crimes that I know of. 

[BlueDreams]

On 8/9/2023 at 8:09 AM, StarMachinations said:

I just want to see if I am alone. I’ve had more than one bishop sustained in my wards who have later been known to commit egregious sins such as adultery, abuse, etc. some of them have been caught and removed from office - and some of them were not removed from office as there was not enough “evidence” to contradict his words, or simply no one spoke up.

I just want to know of anyone who has had a bishop who sinned in such manner because when I speak to my contemporaries, they insist that I am a statistically irrelevant outlier. 
 

I don’t need stories per se, but a simple “yes” response would mean a lot.

 

I can't think of one off hand. Most of the errors I've seen were not in the degree of severe sin. 

BUT That doesn't mean it doesn't happen and you may have had the dubious luck of meeting several exceptions in a row. Technically, you are absolutely not alone, considering your fellow ward members also experienced the same thing. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

[Tacenda]

Just a few..

https://www.google.com/search?sa=N&rlz=1CAHKDC_enUS915&sca_esv=555605304&cs=0&sxsrf=AB5stBirK89FiktaYB0AdmByxkrPMhJwdA:1691703966483&q=lds+bishops+that+went+to+jail&tbm=isch&source=univ&fir=LPkBQsF89dgYHM%2CRaA99wIsq0DQOM%2C_%3BOCLgKPQO4ODN5M%2CF4ajQs50O5VAJM%2C_%3BPqDvMKfUeokNzM%2CuWXDw44TdrWDAM%2C_%3BHwRcV0Vnqsyt-M%2CCEFYnrSIHxH6RM%2C_%3BCIAL_flyF6rspM%2Cug1eroicZzMKDM%2C_%3B83tDk4TYbfFYwM%2CECdz5-QLk_UVPM%2C_%3BsD4ESsRunnTvbM%2CzB_Awhvh_MLq_M%2C_%3BD5kLR-8nGmPwmM%2CilTy7AkUl2XnyM%2C_%3BlmY7Z7xgpG-0DM%2CjUeXerc6ROro7M%2C_%3Bjlsjd50j6qbbqM%2CDqcmCDjWHMMNuM%2C_&usg=AI4_-kTCMt1Jdi3eNRhNmCms4C41jXm3qg&ved=2ahUKEwiPtfKviNOAAxWJJ0QIHVO4Ahg4ChDjbSgAegQIHxAK&biw=1213&bih=515&dpr=1.13

[The Nehor]

Yeah, I have been infatuated with four different people in the last six months. It is easy for feelings to develop.

It wasn’t fun. It never is. Just once I would like this to hit with someone I can actually be with. I mean, it has happened before but it has been over a decade and a half since the last time.

[Duncan]

I've heard and it's probably jus a rumour but in Lethbridge Alberta about 20 years the Bishop committed adultery with 8 women in his ward. The person that told me this is the husband of the wife's who's father replaced the Bishop. I have had bad Bishops in the sense that they were either bad people or poorly organized, didn't care, didn't know how to relate to others etc. I knew of a Bishop here around 2000 cheated on his wife and got exed.

[MustardSeed]

On 8/9/2023 at 9:33 AM, bluebell said:

That would be a really heavy mental and emotional load.

It probably is heavier than I acknowledge.  I’m a compartmentalizer, probably pathologically. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I've heard and it's probably jus a rumour but in Lethbridge Alberta about 20 years the Bishop committed adultery with 8 women in his ward. The person that told me this is the husband of the wife's who's father replaced the Bishop. I have had bad Bishops in the sense that they were either bad people or poorly organized, didn't care, didn't know how to relate to others etc. I knew of a Bishop here around 2000 cheated on his wife and got exed.

Too bad we had likely moved by then or I bet I would have heard about that one.  We had several members in our ward from Lethbridge.

[Rain]

I personally don't know of any bishops like that.  I have had some bishops who lead much better than others.  I did hear that one of my stake presidents was excommunicated, but only heard it from 1 person and I would in no way trust that person without some back up info.  It's not that I disbelieve that it happens, I just have no personal knowledge of it 

[blackstrap]

Perhaps not equivalent , but about a decade ago a bishop here left the Church and took his family to join ( horror of horrors ) the Evangelicals. ( Sorry Navidad )

[sunstoned]

One of the Bishops of our ward a few years back was excommunicated for adultery.  The affair started when he was on the high council, before he was called to be a Bishop. 

[Sablespartan23]

On 8/9/2023 at 10:46 AM, MustardSeed said:

I worked with a stake presidents wife a few years ago.  He had been living with a woman for some time and pretending he was married.  He left the church and I believe the arrangement remains.

I counseled a recovering couple 10 years ago where the husband was YM president and had had an affair with the YW president.  

Also our best friends 20 years ago originally and locally famously got together due to the fact that he was a bishop, counseling with an unhappily married woman, and they ended up having a child together.  Got married and still going (strong?). 

Being a therapist with deep ties to members for the past 25 years, i get a lot of information about people that I have to keep under wraps.  I can’t report details  to anyone unless I think a child or elderly person is in mortal danger.   Lots of friends and acquaintances in my ward end up on my doorstep to talk about newly discovered affairs and porn addictions.

People are messy.

I don't know how you are mentally able to handle all of that. Hats off to you

[Stargazer]

On 8/9/2023 at 3:09 PM, StarMachinations said:

I just want to see if I am alone. I’ve had more than one bishop sustained in my wards who have later been known to commit egregious sins such as adultery, abuse, etc. some of them have been caught and removed from office - and some of them were not removed from office as there was not enough “evidence” to contradict his words, or simply no one spoke up.

I just want to know of anyone who has had a bishop who sinned in such manner because when I speak to my contemporaries, they insist that I am a statistically irrelevant outlier. 

You may be a statistically irrelevant outlier. But there's no harm in that. I am a statistically irrelevant outlier, too, though in another way. I am in my 70s, and what some call morbidly obese, but my blood pressure, blood sugar, heart health, and most other measurable medical measurements are completely normal. I'm in fine fettle. So I am quite the outlier. I attribute my good health despite the obesity to the Word of Wisdom.

So I maintain that being an outlier is not a negative, per se. It depends upon the particular outliership.

On 8/9/2023 at 3:09 PM, StarMachinations said:

 

I don’t need stories per se, but a simple “yes” response would mean a lot.

 

This implies that you are hoping for validation as normal. But I would think that hoping for this particular validation is not a good thing. Because if it were not a statistical outlier, this would mean that it's common in the Church. And I don't think we should want it that way.

As for the incidence in my own life in the church, it has never happened. 

 

[Chum]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:36 PM, The Nehor said:

It is easy for feelings to develop.

It wasn’t fun. It never is.

Yeah. I had a crush after 50 and came across a blog post that pointed out problems with crushes. I came to realize I was basically objectifying the other person. They had all my focus but what I wanted far outweighed true regard for their feelings. Once that clicked it became easier to set it aside. I'd guess age was part of that but reason made it happen.

Also, my kids worldview got tweaked to learn I could have a crush on someone.  Not sure I saw it coming either.